Keeping Up With COVID Theatre to Be “Nice People”

 

I saw a patient today who I like very much – she is a little over 70-years-old but looks much younger.  Very pleasant and cheerful.  Her husband made a ton of money in petroleum engineering and retired at 52-years-old.  She spent her life playing tennis and doing volunteer work, and she is a very happy person.  She is also progressive, in a pleasant, non-confrontational way.  She’s just a nice person.  Impossible to dislike her.

She wore her mask into the exam room, as she’s supposed to (I think).  She told me that she really appreciated our efforts at patient safety, with my secretary checking forehead temps on anyone who walked in the door.  I thanked her for her kind words but pointed out that I’ve been checking forehead temps at the front desk for over a year now, and haven’t turned anyone away yet.  A dentist friend of mine has turned away one patient, out of over 3,000 forehead temps.  So I’m not sure how many lives we’ve saved with our heroic efforts.  But whatever, we’re all nice people.  It’s the thought that counts.  Right?

I told her that since we’ve both been vaccinated, we don’t need to wear our masks and she told me that she felt better with a mask on.  I pointed out that the whole point of getting a vaccine was to develop immunity to the virus; I haven’t seen COVID in months.  And the data on masks is uncertain; they might help… alittle bit… maybe.  I’m not sure.  But she said that she felt better with a mask on, regardless.  Good for her – she was cheerfully secure behind her mask.  So I kept mine on, too.  Which pleased her.  We’re both nice people.

Whatever.  We’re all nice people.  It’s the thought that counts.  Right?

I’m amazed at how comfortable Democrats are with risk.  Open borders don’t bother them.  Allowing the government to run Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sounds reasonable.  We can sign treaties with Russia and China and sleep well at night.  Printing trillions of dollars of new money is sound monetary policy.  Defunding police will reduce crime.  We can shut down the economy with no consequences.

Whatever.  We’re all nice people.  It’s the thought that counts.  Right?

Taking huge risks is ok.  Democrats appear to be very comfortable with enormous risks.

I’ve taken risks in my life.  But not like this.  I need to sleep at night.  How do they tolerate such uncertainty?

It’s amazing.

But it also amazes me how Democrats are so easily comforted by imaginary security.  Imaginary temperature readings.  Ineffective masks.  Insane monetary policy.  Treaties that aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.  Reducing crime by reducing law enforcement in high crime areas.

Things that scare me, comfort Democrats.  I don’t understand.

But whatever.  We’re all nice people.  It’s the thought that counts.  Right?

None of this makes any sense.  But my Democrat friends feel better.  I’m not sure why.

They fear white supremacist nationalist rednecks, without ever having met one.  But they are comforted by obviously meaningless gestures, which they see everyday, with no basis in reality.

These are very nice people.  Who mean well.  And they’re easy to please – just wear your mask and check their temperature.  That means you’re nice, too.  It’s impossible to dislike these people.  They’re nice people.  Completely harmless.  I want them to be harmless, and they intend to be harmless.

So they’re harmless.  Whatever.  We’re all nice people.  It’s the thought that counts.  Right?

But for some reason, I’m not sure that this is harmless.  It should be.  But maybe it’s not.

I wish it were.  It’s impossible to dislike such nice people.  Surely I’m being unreasonable.  Right?

Whatever.  We’re all nice people.  It’s the thought that counts.  Right?

Unless there’s more to it than that.

Eh, whatever.  She’s so nice.  And so am I.  She’s impossible to dislike.

We had a lovely visit…

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  1. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    For the first time on over a year, SF folks, not most of them, dropping the masks. Mostly younger folks but trend is catching on. Maybe we will get through this nonsense. 

    • #61
  2. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Franco (View Comment):

    I could, somewhat crudely, separate liberals and conservatives (already a crude formulation lol) into those who are ‘nice’ on the retail level and ‘mean’ on the wholesale level.

    I know so many people who are unfailingly “nice” but they really aren’t in private. I have become afraid of these people – or I don’t trust them. Me, I am not at all nice. But I like people, but I guess I don’t really need them to like me. Especially not if they don’t like me because I’m not ‘nice’!

    When it comes to politics, as in rules for people, I want to be very ‘nice’ to accommodate as many people with different pursuits and ideas as possible while having order.

    I’m reminded of a new pet peeve I have that can illustrate part of this ‘nice’ thing. I have come to notice and loathe new customer service banter that is overly polite and extremely wordy. I’m sure most of you have experienced this endless politeness that is essentially a meaningless and a huge time-waster. It’s obviously scripted and empty. Ultimately making the interchange empty of humanity. All that’s left is this facade of cordiality,

    One question to ask is, Why does this person feel the need to be so nice and polite?

    Incidentally, Ellen “Be Kind” De Generes has had he show cancelled for essentially being rather unkind in private to her underlings.

    See also; Civility, Politics 

    • #62
  3. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    America’s response to a pandemic needs to be a coordinated effort.

    Why?

    An infectious disease that is affecting millions of people is a public health matter.

    Northern Ohio was once the malaria capital of the world. We got rid of malaria there by draining the swamps. Not one or two swamps, here and there. It only works if we drain all of them.

    Vaccines work best when you give them to everybody. Or at least, nearly everybody.

    This needs to be a coordinated effort.

    Which is why competent leadership is so important. Which, admittedly, we don’t have right now.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that widespread infectious disease requires a coordinated response.

    One of the oddest things was the changeover from most people smoking wherever they happened to be to hunched pariahs out in the cold. 

    • #63
  4. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Redundantated. 

    • #64
  5. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I think that a part of it (and I think it’s actually a big part of it) is that some folks perceive an intrinsic virtue in sacrificing for an epic collective good. Sacrifice guns, sacrifice fossil fuels, sacrifice personal liberty to work and travel and breathe freely — because all represent an effort, they believe, to ward off a great evil.

    Most of us probably feel that way, as evidenced by patriotic responses in time of war and personal sacrifice during natural disasters. What makes it odd with the left is which things they perceive as threats to the public good. It would be interesting to list the left’s great perceived dangers and see what they have in common. What is it about ecological disaster, an armed populace (or armed police, for that matter), and the Chinabug that make these loom large in their minds, despite considerable evidence to the contrary?

    Or perhaps it’s something to do with the kind of deprivation demanded in response, the kind of sacrifice required. They don’t like guns; maybe they don’t like motor culture and something they see as crude consumerism. I don’t know.

    To me this is just like the worship of Global Warming, as a cult or substitute for religious belief.  Leftists who do not believe in God have a huge void in their psyche, that must be filled with something.  A life with absolutely no meaning other than random molecules spinning around is not satisfying.  A world-wide pandemic with scary apocalyptic rhetoric fits the bill perfectly.  The fight against it gives them deeper meaning in their lives, with very little actual risk of getting hurt or dying.  If the risks of harm were significant, such as being in Europe during World War II, real fear would  drown-out any need to feel meaning in one’s life.

    Another parallel with  the Global  Warming crowd is the absence of joy in the face of good news.  When it is learned that the Earth has been expanding in vegetation  and tree coverage or that Antarctica is growing in size rather than melting, Global Warmists are greatly disappointed rather than being happy.  Notice that there are no celebrations nor headlines in the press proclaiming victory over the virus like we declared victory over the Axis powers in headlines after World War II.  That would mean an end to “the good fight.”

    • #65
  6. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    She (View Comment):

    I live in God’s country. Whiskey Rebellion country. The southwest corner of PA, in which the closest town is Claysville, known as “Little Richmond” during the Civil War, for its support of the South…

    The madness that is the current political climate, which is too dysfunctional to unpack here, has largely bypassed my world.

    Masks are something which, to this point, we’ve donned at the entrance to crowded places, and removed the moment we leave them. We don’t wear them in parking lots, in our cars, or outdoors at all. None of the deliverers, contractors, suppliers or even health care vendors (home health nurses and aides to take care of Mr. She last summer) has made a meal out of masking up. Nor did the couple who came from the funeral home to take his body away. God bless them. We hugged. A transgressive act in July 2020, but we did it anyway….

    You don’t live all that far away from me in Cleveland.  Things are a heck-of-a-lot different up here.

    People are wearing masks more and more.  Our state-wide mask mandate is still in effect for entering any business or government building.  Governor DeWine was better than most governors in the beginning, but he has refused to let go of the mask thing despite Ohio being one of the better states in keeping healthy from the virus.  We have fewer deaths per capita than Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Iowa, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and North Dakota, which all ended their mask mandates two months ago.  Only because the Ohio  Legislature finally took command of his powers (overriding his veto) we will lift the mask mandate next month.

    On the voluntary side, people here are wearing their masks outdoors, while walking all alone or by themselves in their own cars, even in bright sunshine (kills the virus almost on contact).  It is not even mandated in the Ohio regulations.  Just yesterday, while talking to my neighbor on the sidewalk, a young female jogger went into the street and back onto the sidewalk just to avoid getting near us.  Forget six-f00t distancing, many here practice sixty-foot distancing.  Our block club e-mail  moderator dissuaded us from resuming in-person block club meetings recently because “Covid cases in Italy and Spain were rising.” It is surreal.

    • #66
  7. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Leftists who do not believe in God have a huge void in their psyche, that must be filled with something.  A life with absolutely no meaning other than random molecules spinning around is not satisfying. 

    Just because you can’t find meaning in your life without believing in mystical silliness doesn’t make the mystical silliness true.  

    And just what is “meaning in life?”  It’s one of those vacant terms that has no meaning except to induce people to nod thoughtfully as though something profound were uttered.  Life doesn’t have “meaning.”  Life is.  You exist.  Go live your life without making up silly stories that aren’t true.  In a weird way, finding “meaning” in religion is like buying yourself a trophy for a race you never ran.  It’s a symbol of nothing and only affects those who believe their own lies.  

    • #67
  8. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Leftists who do not believe in God have a huge void in their psyche, that must be filled with something. A life with absolutely no meaning other than random molecules spinning around is not satisfying.

    Just because you can’t find meaning in your life without believing in mystical silliness doesn’t make the mystical silliness true.

    And just what is “meaning in life?” It’s one of those vacant terms that has no meaning except to induce people to nod thoughtfully as though something profound were uttered. Life doesn’t have “meaning.” Life is. You exist. Go live your life without making up silly stories that aren’t true. In a weird way, finding “meaning” in religion is like buying yourself a trophy for a race you never ran. It’s a symbol of nothing and only affects those who believe their own lies.

    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.”  I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.   I know from previous discussions that you don’t like the idea of religious belief, but it was not my point to argue the veracity of religious beliefs.  I still insist that it is human nature to want meaning in one’s life, and it is not a vacant term.  To put it a different way, people want to think that their lives are important in some way, not unimportant.  Ask anyone who has contemplated suicide.

    • #68
  9. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.”  I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    • #69
  10. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    • #70
  11. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… (View Comment):

    Nice post.

    Gumby for the win, damn it!

    • #71
  12. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    America’s response to a pandemic needs to be a coordinated effort.

    Why?

    An infectious disease that is affecting millions of people is a public health matter.

    Northern Ohio was once the malaria capital of the world. We got rid of malaria there by draining the swamps. Not one or two swamps, here and there. It only works if we drain all of them.

    Vaccines work best when you give them to everybody. Or at least, nearly everybody.

    This needs to be a coordinated effort.

    Which is why competent leadership is so important. Which, admittedly, we don’t have right now.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that widespread infectious disease requires a coordinated response.

    Which we didn’t seem to have.  It wasn’t that long ago that “direction” or “guidance” from the gov’t was to wear 2-3 masks.  Even outside.  What’s the guidance now?

    I’m not saying you’re wrong about a coordinated response.  I agree with that, and by coordinated I also mean consistent, backed by the latest information.

    The leftovers from Covid, for all of us, is that more people will be wearing masks, to likely no large benefit, than before.  Already thinking about and prepping for next year’s flu season by planning their mask-wearing approach.  Which is fine, to a point.  We used to happily mock people who wore tinfoil on their heads to keep the aliens out.  There was no science there, that was someone with mental health issues, mitigating an anxiety created out of nothing.

    Covid is something, and so is the flu, and so is the common cold.  Even with the explanation around the size of the viral particles and the efficacy of masks, the mosquito and the fence analogy, people will still wear them, to feel safe.  It’s almost religious in its basis of belief, because the math says you’re not going to get sick, and you’re more likely to be struck by lightning, etc.

    Based on what’s recently been said at the CDC, we had a huge mask overreaction, based on an error in the “science”, and now millions of peoples’ lives have changed – for some, permanently, as now they’ll have a mask of some kind in their lives.  Forever.

    • #72
  13. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    • #73
  14. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    • #74
  15. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I think that a part of it (and I think it’s actually a big part of it) is that some folks perceive an intrinsic virtue in sacrificing for an epic collective good. Sacrifice guns, sacrifice fossil fuels, sacrifice personal liberty to work and travel and breathe freely — because all represent an effort, they believe, to ward off a great evil.

    Most of us probably feel that way, as evidenced by patriotic responses in time of war and personal sacrifice during natural disasters. What makes it odd with the left is which things they perceive as threats to the public good. It would be interesting to list the left’s great perceived dangers and see what they have in common. What is it about ecological disaster, an armed populace (or armed police, for that matter), and the Chinabug that make these loom large in their minds, despite considerable evidence to the contrary?

    Or perhaps it’s something to do with the kind of deprivation demanded in response, the kind of sacrifice required. They don’t like guns; maybe they don’t like motor culture and something they see as crude consumerism. I don’t know.

    To me this is just like the worship of Global Warming, as a cult or substitute for religious belief. Leftists who do not believe in God have a huge void in their psyche, that must be filled with something. A life with absolutely no meaning other than random molecules spinning around is not satisfying. A world-wide pandemic with scary apocalyptic rhetoric fits the bill perfectly. The fight against it gives them deeper meaning in their lives, with very little actual risk of getting hurt or dying. If the risks of harm were significant, such as being in Europe during World War II, real fear would drown-out any need to feel meaning in one’s life.

    Another parallel with the Global Warming crowd is the absence of joy in the face of good news. When it is learned that the Earth has been expanding in vegetation and tree coverage or that Antarctica is growing in size rather than melting, Global Warmists are greatly disappointed rather than being happy. Notice that there are no celebrations nor headlines in the press proclaiming victory over the virus like we declared victory over the Axis powers in headlines after World War II. That would mean an end to “the good fight.”

    Steven, that’s a great point. We are social creatures, deriving part of our security and identity from our relationship to others. In recent decades we’ve eliminated a lot of those opportunities for self-defining relationships: mobility and urbanization broke up family and small community connections; waves of increasingly radical feminism undermined traditional familial roles; and decreasing religious participation has robbed us of the sense of community that brings.

    We now have a Cambrian explosion of ersatz identity groups. I was listening to an author (but can’t remember whom) on a podcast recently who offered her opinion, which I thought made enormous sense, that today’s multiplying identity groups are precisely that, a direct response to the destruction of traditional male/female identity and the assumptions built up around it. I think the cancellation of established opportunities for identity and purpose are greater than sexual role identities, but I think aspects of identity surrounding sexuality are among the most important, if not the most important.

    Back to your point: yes, it’s easy to believe that participation in a great cause is a way to claim an identity and the security that comes with it. I’m a climate activist; I’m an LGBT activist; we’re all in this together; I’m the 99%.

    I’m a dad first, and have been for a long time. We seem to be moving into a post-family era.

    • #75
  16. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Cause and effect.

    • #76
  17. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Steven, that’s a great point. We are social creatures, deriving part of our security and identity from our relationship to others. In recent decades we’ve eliminated a lot of those opportunities for self-defining relationships: mobility and urbanization broke up family and small community connections; waves of increasingly radical feminism undermined traditional familial roles; and decreasing religious participation has robbed us of the sense of community that brings.

    We now have a Cambrian explosion of ersatz identity groups. I was listening to an author (but can’t remember whom) on a podcast recently who offered her opinion, which I thought made enormous sense, that today’s multiplying identity groups are precisely that, a direct response to the destruction of traditional male/female identity and the assumptions built up around it. I think the cancellation of established opportunities for identity and purpose are greater than sexual role identities, but I think aspects of identity surrounding sexuality are among the most important, if not the most important.

    Back to your point: yes, it’s easy to believe that participation in a great cause is a way to claim an identity and the security that comes with it. I’m a climate activist; I’m an LGBT activist; we’re all in this together; I’m the 99%.

    I’m a dad first, and have been for a long time. We seem to be moving into a post-family era.

    The explosion of identity groups to fill the former role of the nuclear family is an idea that I had not thought of.  It makes perfect sense and explains a lot!  Thank you for the Jordan Petersonion insight.

    • #77
  18. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Steven, that’s a great point. We are social creatures, deriving part of our security and identity from our relationship to others. In recent decades we’ve eliminated a lot of those opportunities for self-defining relationships: mobility and urbanization broke up family and small community connections; waves of increasingly radical feminism undermined traditional familial roles; and decreasing religious participation has robbed us of the sense of community that brings.

    We now have a Cambrian explosion of ersatz identity groups. I was listening to an author (but can’t remember whom) on a podcast recently who offered her opinion, which I thought made enormous sense, that today’s multiplying identity groups are precisely that, a direct response to the destruction of traditional male/female identity and the assumptions built up around it. I think the cancellation of established opportunities for identity and purpose are greater than sexual role identities, but I think aspects of identity surrounding sexuality are among the most important, if not the most important.

    Back to your point: yes, it’s easy to believe that participation in a great cause is a way to claim an identity and the security that comes with it. I’m a climate activist; I’m an LGBT activist; we’re all in this together; I’m the 99%.

    I’m a dad first, and have been for a long time. We seem to be moving into a post-family era.

    The explosion of identity groups to fill the former role of the nuclear family is an idea that I had not thought of. It makes perfect sense and explains a lot! Thank you for the Jordan Petersonion insight.

    My pleasure but, again, I have to give credit to whomever I heard express the thought on a recent podcast. I’ll try to find out who that was.

    • #78
  19. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire. 

    • #79
  20. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire.

    And too many who are religious end up massacring other religions.  I’m not going to call all christians murderers.

    • #80
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire.

    And too many who are religious end up massacring other religions. I’m not going to call all christians murderers.

    Historically true, but also also historically par for the course, religious or otherwise. Religion gave would-be slaughterers a bigger banner to work under, but slaughter was already on the menu. 

    • #81
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire.

    And too many who are religious end up massacring other religions. I’m not going to call all christians murderers.

    I think you just did.  You took this statement “Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.” and further comments, and twisted it into “I’m not going to call all christians murderers.”

    • #82
  23. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire.

    And too many who are religious end up massacring other religions. I’m not going to call all christians murderers.

    Historically true, but also also historically par for the course, religious or otherwise. Religion gave would-be slaughterers a bigger banner to work under, but slaughter was already on the menu.

    The point is that having a “purpose” is neither a requirement nor has it been shown to have a universally positive impact.

    • #83
  24. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Skyler (View Comment):

     

    The point is that having a “purpose” is neither a requirement nor has it been shown to have a universally positive impact.

    I think “having a purpose” is pretty much a requirement of being a human being. I would guess that even you have a conscious purpose in life, no?

    • #84
  25. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire.

    And too many who are religious end up massacring other religions. I’m not going to call all christians murderers.

    Historically true, but also also historically par for the course, religious or otherwise. Religion gave would-be slaughterers a bigger banner to work under, but slaughter was already on the menu.

    The point is that having a “purpose” is neither a requirement nor has it been shown to have a universally positive impact.

    Aristotle takes a different view.

    • #85
  26. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Flicker (View Comment):
    I think you just did.  You took this statement “Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.” and further comments, and twisted it into “I’m not going to call all christians murderers.”

    Well, you can take it that way if you wish, but if you read my actual words, I’m pointing out the opposite.

    • #86
  27. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

     

    The point is that having a “purpose” is neither a requirement nor has it been shown to have a universally positive impact.

    I think “having a purpose” is pretty much a requirement of being a human being. I would guess that even you have a conscious purpose in life, no?

    I have no idea what that even means.  Vague fake concepts don’t have much value.  “Purpose” or “meaning” are silly concepts that bear no relation to reality.  I have goals, but that’s not what is usually intended.

    • #87
  28. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I never claimed that people’s beliefs were absolutely “true.” I just said that there is a need for people to find meaning in theír lives.

    Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.

    Why?

    Because we were built for a purpose.

    Circular.

    Because too many people who make up their own purposes end up lighting buildings on fire.

    And too many who are religious end up massacring other religions. I’m not going to call all christians murderers.

    Historically true, but also also historically par for the course, religious or otherwise. Religion gave would-be slaughterers a bigger banner to work under, but slaughter was already on the menu.

    The point is that having a “purpose” is neither a requirement nor has it been shown to have a universally positive impact.

    Looks like goalposts strewn all about the field here.

    It seems reasonable to say that having a sense of purpose tends to contribute positively to people’s sense of well-being, and hence their happiness and enthusiasm. The late great Viktor Frankl wrote with considerable insight on this topic; I think he was largely correct.

    Of course there are people motivated to do awful things by what they perceive as their mission or purpose. But, to each individual, that feeling of being part of something meaningful — a relationship, a community, a squad, a movement — and having a role to play in it seems to increase the value one finds in living.

    • #88
  29. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    seems to increase the value one finds in living.

    But that is not a “need.”

    • #89
  30. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    I think you just did. You took this statement “Another way of putting it: people need to have purpose in their lives.” and further comments, and twisted it into “I’m not going to call all christians murderers.”

    Well, you can take it that way if you wish, but if you read my actual words, I’m pointing out the opposite.

    You constructed a straw man and then refuted half of it.  It’s technically true, but intended to make the opposite point.

    • #90
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