The Big Lie

 

In recent interviews, Liz Cheney has been calling President Trump’s insistence that the 2020 election was stolen “The Big Lie.” And over the weekend the mainstream media has been beside themselves over the forensic audit underway in Arizona. Today, President Trump decided to take those words and shove them back in the faces of spineless Republicans like her, Kevin McCarthy, and others by issuing the following statement:

Of course, Cheney doubled down on her assertions, and – much like every other Republican leader – has refused to actually debate the mountains of evidence most of us recognized immediately and have been daring others to examine ever since. One person who’s been front and center in all of this is Jenna Ellis, the president’s attorney who threw down a gauntlet of her own:
I love this, all of it. It reminds me that there are still a few people out there willing to have it out with the weak-kneed gatekeepers who care almost nothing about truth and even less about consequences. Will Cheney or any of the other media sycophants have the courage to debate any of our best and brightest on actual facts? Will conservative media outlets like Ricochet be willing to provide a forum?

This isn’t going away now, matter how much the hand-wringing NeverTrumpers want it to. I (and others like me) won’t sit quietly while these people desecrate our country and its laws. It’s beyond time to take a side on who is lying to whom. I stand with the president – not the usurper sitting in his chair, but the real one, who’s willing to call out a lie when he sees it, even if everyone else is afraid to.

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  1. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    I am such a huge fan of that fraudulent F. The left did such a hack job on stealing an election, they created the Fake Election meme.

    I have lost so much respect for so many people over the insistence that this was a perfectly legitimate election.

    • #1
  2. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Stina (View Comment):

    I am such a huge fan of that fraudulent F. The left did such a hack job on stealing an election, they created the Fake Election meme.

    I have lost so much respect for so many people over the insistence that this was a perfectly legitimate election.

    Same. I’ve lost even more for those who flippantly say things like, “Sure there was probably fraud, just not enough to make a real difference,” and then just move along and accept all of the crimes that aren’t even in dispute, like kicking out poll watchers. 

    • #2
  3. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    I am still looking for believable evidence that it was not stolen.  

    The fact they will not even attempt to provide it seems to indicate it is stolen to me.  

    • #3
  4. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    In a comment in a previous thread (immortalized by Dr. Bastiat) I said:

    Democrat votes for the last 5 US presidential elections:

    2004: 59,028,444

    2008: 69,498,516

    2012: 65,915,795

    2016: 65,853,514

    2020: 81,268,924

    Nobody believes that.  Nobody.

    A sudden 23% increase in votes with no explanation whatsoever.

    The dems don’t even praise it, or applaud any particular campaign strategy or anything.

    • #4
  5. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    In a comment in a previous thread (immortalized by Dr. Bastiat) I said:

    Democrat votes for the last 5 US presidential elections:

    2004: 59,028,444

    2008: 69,498,516

    2012: 65,915,795

    2016: 65,853,514

    2020: 81,268,924

    Nobody believes that. Nobody.

    A sudden 23% increase in votes with no explanation whatsoever.

    The dems don’t even praise it, or applaud any particular campaign strategy or anything.

    Nobody celebrates the thing they know they will burn in hell over, they just try and enjoy it while it lasts. 

    • #5
  6. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    In a comment in a previous thread (immortalized by Dr. Bastiat) I said:

    Democrat votes for the last 5 US presidential elections:

    2004: 59,028,444

    2008: 69,498,516

    2012: 65,915,795

    2016: 65,853,514

    2020: 81,268,924

    Nobody believes that. Nobody.

    Your statement that “nobody” believes it can inherently be disproven by a single person stating that they believe it.  Well, I absolutely believe that Biden got 23% more votes than Hillary given what a horrible candidate and person Hillary was and it.  In 2016 many people didn’t show up to vote assuming that Trump would lose.  But in 2020, all of them turned out and reminded their friends to all vote.

    A sudden 23% increase in votes with no explanation whatsoever.

    Well, Trump had a 12% increase in the number of people who voted for him in 2020 over 2016.  That is in the class as a 23% increase.  

    The dems don’t even praise it, or applaud any particular campaign strategy or anything.

    The Democratic campaign strategy was to repeatedly say that America wanted an end of Trump and Trumpism.  A re-election campaign is a referendum on the incumbent.  America spoke loudly; it wanted no more of Trump.  

    Don, with all due respect, you remind me of NYT’s film critic Pauline Kael who after the 1972 election was astonished when Nixon won re-election exclaiming that she knew no one who had voted for Nixon.  

     

    • #6
  7. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

     A comment from another thread is appropriate here.  

    Trump may be completely lacking in ethics but he is one hell of a brander.  

    There are four questions I ask when someone signs a will to determine if they are of sound mind.  Unlike the old saw, there are correct and wrong answers to these questions:

    1.  What is your name?
    2. What is today’s date?  (Or what year is this?  What month is this?)
    3. Where are you?
    4. What is the purpose of today’s meeting?

    I can think of a few other questions to determine mental soundness:

    1. Is the earth flat?
    2. Is the Holocaust fake?
    3. Did Bush know about the 9/11 attacks before they occurred?
    4. Was Hillary elected in 2016?
    5. Was Trump elected in 2020?

    If someone answers “yes” to any of these five questions, their mental soundness must be questioned.  

    • #7
  8. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    A comment from another thread is appropriate here.

    Trump may be completely lacking in ethics but he is one hell of a brander.

    There are four questions I ask when someone signs a will to determine if they are of sound mind. Unlike the old saw, there are correct and wrong answers to these questions:

    1. What is your name?
    2. What is today’s date? (Or what year is this? What month is this?)
    3. Where are you?
    4. What is the purpose of today’s meeting?

    I can think of a few other questions to determine mental soundness:

    1. Is the earth flat?
    2. Is the Holocaust fake?
    3. Did Bush know about the 9/11 attacks before they occurred?
    4. Was Hillary elected in 2016?
    5. Was Trump elected in 2020?

    If someone answers “yes” to any of these five questions, their mental soundness must be questioned.

    There’s a reason why your candidate just get his keester whipped in the Texas. Also the point of the post is that you guys don’t like to debate facts, or host those who do. Save the trolling Gary, we’ve heard it all before.

    • #8
  9. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    I am hearing rumblings about a couple things – that Trump is on notice from “certain gov officials” that if he runs again, or continues to involve himself i.e. head the RNC, that his ‘inner’ circle will be indicted.  Rudi just experienced that – supposedly next is his son and Alex Jones – ?  Trump is not backing down to the pressure – but is it true and why is there pressure?  What is really going on here?

    • #9
  10. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    In a comment in a previous thread (immortalized by Dr. Bastiat) I said:

    Democrat votes for the last 5 US presidential elections:

    2004: 59,028,444

    2008: 69,498,516

    2012: 65,915,795

    2016: 65,853,514

    2020: 81,268,924

    Nobody believes that. Nobody.

    Your statement that “nobody” believes it can inherently be disproven by a single person stating that they believe it.

    If it wasn’t clear, I meant: Nobody with a real understanding of what these numbers actually mean, and an understanding of mathematical statistics, believes that.  For instance, how many median-sized states do you think the difference is?

    Well, I absolutely believe that Biden got 23% more votes than Hillary given what a horrible candidate and person Hillary was and it. In 2016 many people didn’t show up to vote assuming that Trump would lose. But in 2020, all of them turned out and reminded their friends to all vote.

    Nonsense.  Hillary was the opportunity to be in on the first woman president.  A historical landmark.   And it was “Her Turn”.  Perhaps you noticed.

    A sudden 23% increase in votes with no explanation whatsoever.

    Well, Trump had a 12% increase in the number of people who voted for him in 2020 over 2016. That is in the class as a 23% increase.

    No, it’s not.

    The dems don’t even praise it, or applaud any particular campaign strategy or anything.

    The Democratic campaign strategy was to repeatedly say that America wanted an end of Trump and Trumpism. A re-election campaign is a referendum on the incumbent. America spoke loudly; it wanted no more of Trump.

    I repeat, they did not praise or applaud any particular campaign strategy.

    Don, with all due respect, you remind me of NYT’s film critic Pauline Kael who after the 1972 election was astonished when Nixon won re-election exclaiming that she knew no one who had voted for Nixon.

    Cute reference, but no.  My Congressional District is D+27.  That’s D-plus-twenty-freaking-seven.

    And I saw a total of four (count’m, 4) Biden signs in the neighborhood.

    • #10
  11. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share).  If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president.    I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful.  I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events. 

    • #11
  12. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it. 

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it. 

    • #12
  13. JamesSalerno Coolidge
    JamesSalerno
    @JamesSalerno

    Cheney really is eyeing 2024, isn’t she? How cute. The fangs are out. Im sure she’s salivating at the potential of a Cheney bombing the hell out of everyone who doesn’t submit to global democracy again. It’s like a drug to these people.

    • #13
  14. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    • #14
  15. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Indeed.  Perhaps, in some Bizarro World, Biden actually “won.”  But they haven’t proven it yet, and it sure doesn’t pass the smell test.

    • #15
  16. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Indeed.  Perhaps, in some Bizarro World, Biden actually “won.”  But they haven’t proven it yet, and it sure doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Also, this:

    • #16
  17. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Indeed. Perhaps, in some Bizarro World, Biden actually “won.” But they haven’t proven it yet, and it sure doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Also, this:

     

    Thank you for not posting the Biden voters in bikinis.

    • #17
  18. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    • #18
  19. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote.  This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming.  The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape.  Happy hunting.  

     

    • #19
  20. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote. This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    You still don’t understand that “certifying” has no more real meaning than “notarizing?”

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming. The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape. Happy hunting.

    Might be wise to wait for some actual evidence, first.  Such as the audit.  Just for starters.  Or are you unfamiliar with companies and people threatening lawsuits to quash stories etc. they don’t like, which might be embarrassing or worse…

    • #20
  21. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Indeed. Perhaps, in some Bizarro World, Biden actually “won.” But they haven’t proven it yet, and it sure doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Well, Arizona has 15 counties.  Biden won 5 of them.  Of course, Biden won the two largest counties, Maricopa County with some 55% of the voters, and Pima County with some 20% of the voters.  Trump won the cow counties.  

    Nevada has 16 counties.  Biden won only 2 of them, Clark County including Las Vegas, and Wasco County including Reno.  But that’s where the people live.  Trump won the Cow Counties.  But people, not cattle vote in elections.

    Of course, the above pictures are during the pandemic.  Biden voters were smart and organized themselves in huge phone banks.  Trump held super-spreader rallies.  RIP Herman Cain.

    50 Secretaries of State and DC all certified their elections.  Trump had 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges and did not switch a single vote.  That sure as heck is proof.  

     

    • #21
  22. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Indeed. Perhaps, in some Bizarro World, Biden actually “won.” But they haven’t proven it yet, and it sure doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Well, Arizona has 15 counties. Biden won 5 of them. Of course, Biden won the two largest counties, Maricopa County with some 55% of the voters, and Pima County with some 20% of the voters. Trump won the cow counties.

    Nevada has 16 counties. Biden won only 2 of them, Clark County including Las Vegas, and Wasco County including Reno. But that’s where the people live. Trump won the Cow Counties. But people, not cattle vote in elections.

    Of course, the above pictures are during the pandemic. Biden voters were smart and organized themselves in huge phone banks. Trump held super-spreader rallies. RIP Herman Cain.

    50 Secretaries of State and DC all certified their elections. Trump had 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges and did not switch a single vote. That sure as heck is proof.

     

    None of that passes the smell test.

    • #22
  23. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote. This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming. The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape. Happy hunting.

     

    Again, prove it…with actual ballots that we can touch. You don’t have them. The state legislatures don’t have them. Judges don’t have them. Do you know why? Because they don’t exist which is what Arizona is about to prove. 

    • #23
  24. Flicker Member
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote. This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming. The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape. Happy hunting.

    Again, prove it…with actual ballots that we can touch. You don’t have them. The state legislatures don’t have them. Judges don’t have them. Do you know why? Because they don’t exist which is what Arizona is about to prove.

    Vince, you know he was a lawyer.  Give him his props.

    Just kidding.

    • #24
  25. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote. This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming. The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape. Happy hunting.

    Again, prove it…with actual ballots that we can touch. You don’t have them. The state legislatures don’t have them. Judges don’t have them. Do you know why? Because they don’t exist which is what Arizona is about to prove.

    Vince, you know he was a lawyer. Give him his props.

    Just kidding.

    “He won,  Your Honor.”

    “Okay, do you have evidence of this?”

    “Yes, but you can’t see it.”

    “Then how do I know it exists?”

    “Because we said so, Your Honor.” 

    “Oh, the Because We Said So defense? Fine, you win.” 

     

    • #25
  26. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote. This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming. The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape. Happy hunting.

    Again, prove it…with actual ballots that we can touch. You don’t have them. The state legislatures don’t have them. Judges don’t have them. Do you know why? Because they don’t exist which is what Arizona is about to prove.

    Vince, you know he was a lawyer. Give him his props.

    Just kidding.

    “He won, Your Honor.”

    “Okay, do you have evidence of this?”

    “Yes, but you can’t see it.”

    “Then how do I know it exists?”

    “Because we said so, Your Honor.”

    “Oh, the Because We Said So defense? Fine, you win.”

     

    They didn’t just SAY so.  They CERTIFIED it!

    • #26
  27. Flicker Member
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jenna Ellis has settled on an undefeatable argument (which I happen to share). If she can get Trump and his circle to stick with that argument, it will help convince more people that Biden is not a legitimate president. I am not sure that re-using “the big lie” is helpful. I like reserving Holocaust terminology for the original events.

    There are a few undefeatable arguments one could make. I prefer this one: You claim you won. Prove it.

    Well, the Secretaries of State from 50 states and DC all certified their vote totals and while there were 60+ lawsuits before 90+ judges, not a single judge changed a single vote. This is such a far reaching conspiracy that there is no evidence of it that can be found!

    So far nobody on Biden’s side is willing to do that and nobody in the GOP establishment is willing to demand it.

    Oh, there is a test coming. The Dominion Lawsuit has forced FNC and OANN to back down on their crazy conspiracies and Dominion will crush Mike Lindell like a grape. Happy hunting.

    Again, prove it…with actual ballots that we can touch. You don’t have them. The state legislatures don’t have them. Judges don’t have them. Do you know why? Because they don’t exist which is what Arizona is about to prove.

    Vince, you know he was a lawyer. Give him his props.

    Just kidding.

    “He won, Your Honor.”

    “Okay, do you have evidence of this?”

    “Yes, but you can’t see it.”

    “Then how do I know it exists?”

    “Because we said so, Your Honor.”

    “Oh, the Because We Said So defense? Fine, you win.”

    They didn’t just SAY so. They CERTIFIED it!

    “Certified” is such a complex and multifaceted word, layered with nuance, that only a lawyer can understand it.

    • #27
  28. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    It really does not matter that Trump won the election or not.  Biden was installed by 30,000 military that still sits in DC to keep him there.  The moment the military rolled from my point of view democracy on this country ended.  Legally Biden it POTUS by the only ruling that matters.  The brute force we have more guns and are willing to use both rules are now in effect.  Personally I view the current political system in the US about as valid as the current political system in Venezuela for about the same reasons.

    • #28
  29. AdamSmithFan Member
    AdamSmithFan
    @AdamSmithFan

    Yea lets have a debate between Brian Kemp and Stacey Abrams about the 2018 Georgia election. The same whining would be all too evident. Also funny you should look to Jenna Ellis for bravery when she never had the guts to take any of the things she said in the media in front of a judge. Every lawsuit Trump lost, never reflected anything like the bunk she puts out there. So she’s very brave indeed challenging Cheney to a debate where she can say whatever she likes, when she wouldn’t put it to a Court because she’d be under oath.

    • #29
  30. AdamSmithFan Member
    AdamSmithFan
    @AdamSmithFan

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    It really does not matter that Trump won the election or not. Biden was installed by 30,000 military that still sits in DC to keep him there. The moment the military rolled from my point of view democracy on this country ended. Legally Biden it POTUS by the only ruling that matters. The brute force we have more guns and are willing to use both rules are now in effect. Personally I view the current political system in the US about as valid as the current political system in Venezuela for about the same reasons.

    Well you certainly sound like Maduro and his supporters. If we didn’t win, it must have been rigged 

    • #30