Knocked on My Butt by the Vaccine

 

I got my second dose of the Moderna on Friday, and, whoa, did the second dose pack a wallop. I got the first dose on March 19, St. Joseph’s feast day! Other than the sting in my shoulder afterward, I did not have any symptoms.

This past Friday, April 16, about a month later, I got the second dose. It didn’t feel any different than the first at the point of being stuck. That evening I went on to my son’s little league baseball game, a drizzling cold night in April, but I didn’t feel any effects of the vaccine. That night, just before bedtime, I started shivering. No matter how many clothes I put on and how many blankets I put over me, I could not stop shivering. I had no idea if I had fever because I didn’t get out of bed to check. I barely slept. I trembled with chills all night.

In the morning, I checked my temperature. I had a mild fever. I still had chills, but when I got out of bed my muscles resisted the simplest motion. I had no strength. I stayed in bed all day. I took Advil, which brought the fever down. The chills came and went but they never went away completely. My wife (God bless her) got me a large order of wonton soup. It helped. I had it for lunch and for dinner.

Then in the evening, the fever started rising. What was mild (99 to 100 degrees) climbed to 101, then 102, and even a 103. I started to worry. Took more Advil and, eventually, it came down. I slept that second night and when I woke up I felt it had gone away. I still felt weak, but my temperature was normal, and I could do some low-stress chores. By the evening of the second day, I felt close to normal. By Sunday evening, I felt relatively normal.

My left shoulder, where the needle punctured me hurt for several days. I don’t remember it hurting this much on the first dose. It feels more like a wasp sting, if you have ever had that unpleasant experience. The hurt seems to spread over a lot more area than the sting, and it hurts for a lot longer than you would expect.

I had a number of vaccines when I had to travel internationally, and I don’t recall anything like this. This was tough. A friend told me the more the reaction to the vaccine, the greater than immunity one builds. I don’t know if that’s true, but I hope so.

My wife, my mother, and my mother-in-law have all had the same second dose of Moderna. My mother had some chills, a headache, never measured a fever, but on the second day had a blood pressure drop which caused her to faint. We took her to the Emergency Room but they didn’t seem to think it was related to the vaccine. The follow-up doctor said it was possible. My mother-in-law had chills and mild fever and headaches and enervated. She felt terrible for a few days. My wife did not have any chills but felt enervated. She was the least affected by it.

It did feel like I was hit by a truck. But I do recommend getting vaccinated. I don’t know if one has similar reactions with the other types of vaccines, but from what I have read the Moderna provides the best immunity. It’s worth the peace of mind.

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  1. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Flicker (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    EHerring (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    I had two doses of the Pfizer vaccine with absolutely no side effects. And Office Depot laminated my vaccination card for free.

    If you booked through VAMS, you have access to your vaccination record all the time. I logged in and printed a copy. VAMS provides a downloadable PDF you can print.

    I did not. My clinic was handling everything, and I do not want any online records. I assume that my vaccination records reside in my medical record, not accessible by anyone in government.

    My understanding is that with covid vaccinations, at least, at the time of vaccination, your vaccination information is put into a single central storage database at Social Services, and very likely going on to the CDC.

    I signed up through VAMS and the shots are now listed under my Tricare Mail Order Pharmacy list of prescriptions.

    • #31
  2. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Mrs Rodin and I had our second dose of Moderna last Thursday. She felt immediately off and just was out of sorts for about 3 days. I was fine for 24 hours and then got noticeable flu-like symptoms. Felt feverish but had not recorded fever. That lasted for less than 24 hours and I was back up and functioning. 

    Got our shots at a local small pharmacy, but the record is a CDC form so no doubt the record is there now.

    I wasn’t fearful of getting Covid but expected that once the vaccination was widely available, the health nazis would be making life for the unvaccinated difficult. 

    • #32
  3. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Rodin (View Comment):
    I wasn’t fearful of getting Covid but expected that once the vaccination was widely available, the health nazis would be making life for the unvaccinated difficult. 

    Serious question: how would they know you are unvaccinated? They cannot demand a vaccine card without violating HIPAA, as far as I know. Even if they can demand it, it is easy enough to fake a card. Laminate it and no one can tell the difference between a photoshopped card and the real thing.

    • #33
  4. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    I wasn’t fearful of getting Covid but expected that once the vaccination was widely available, the health nazis would be making life for the unvaccinated difficult.

    Serious question: how would they know you are unvaccinated? They cannot demand a vaccine card without violating HIPAA, as far as I know. Even if they can demand it, it is easy enough to fake a card. Laminate it and no one can tell the difference between a photoshopped card and the real thing.

    I try to never underestimate another’s capacity for imagination and creative “solutions.” Big Tech will find a way, HIPPA shcmippa. Rules are for little people.

    • #34
  5. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Rodin (View Comment):
    I wasn’t fearful of getting Covid but expected that once the vaccination was widely available, the health nazis would be making life for the unvaccinated difficult. 

    I’m in favor of making life difficult for the health nazis. It may be that I did my part by getting vaccinated. So far it looks like getting somewhere around 50 percent of the population vaccinated is enough to make covid a very minor background issue. Israel and the UK have attained that number and more; the U.S. is at about 40% and we seem to be heading for results as good as theirs.  

    How does that make things difficult for the nazis?  People won’t need their precious lockdowns any more. We won’t need their tracing and tracking efforts. We won’t need the nazis. They are going to find that hard to accept and won’t let go willingly, but the population isn’t going to accept their efforts to keep it all going under those conditions. 

    • #35
  6. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    But seriously, @seawriter. All rules these days are up for “reinterpretation” in light of the “emergency” and “new normal”. I wish I could say the courts would save us, but over the last year the wins have been few and far between. The Biden Administration is happy to outsource control measures to corporations eager to curry favor with the Administration. And, remember there is no real “doctor-patient privilege” anymore because doctors don’t have patients, health systems do. Health systems need data support. And they get it from Big Tech. Big Tech are also embedded with national companies who are delivering more and more of our goods and services. Fine print in HIPAA allows sharing of data for administrative and regulatory purposes. So that it would be a simple matter to make Big Tech the clearinghouse for “green lighting” a consumer without technically revealing medical information. Kind of like doing a background check for a felony. Some database has a check mark and it triggers a “green light” or “red light”. Goods or service provider needs to nothing more that whether you are eligible for whatever it is that they sell.

    • #36
  7. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    I wasn’t fearful of getting Covid but expected that once the vaccination was widely available, the health nazis would be making life for the unvaccinated difficult.

    I’m in favor of making life difficult for the health nazis. It may be that I did my part by getting vaccinated. So far it looks like getting somewhere around 50 percent of the population vaccinated is enough to make covid a very minor background issue. Israel and the UK have attained that number and more; the U.S. is at about 40% and we seem to be heading for results as good as theirs.

    How does that make things difficult for the nazis? People won’t need their precious lockdowns any more. We won’t need their tracing and tracking efforts. We won’t need the nazis. They are going to find that hard to accept and won’t let go willingly, but the population isn’t going to accept their efforts to keep it all going under those conditions.

    Except for my neighbors here in Washington state, who will go along with whatever the Dictator in Olympia tells them to do.  No uprisings, no protests, near-complete compliance with statewide mask mandate that, in my opinion, will never be lifted.  Really, with the prospect of my county being forced to move back a phase in a week due to “rising cases”, that mask mandate is forever.  And no one seems to care.

    • #37
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):
    Except for my neighbors here in Washington state, who will go along with whatever the Dictator in Olympia tells them to do.  No uprisings, no protests, near-complete compliance with statewide mask mandate that, in my opinion, will never be lifted.  Really, with the prospect of my county being forced to move back a phase in a week due to “rising cases”, that mask mandate is forever.  And no one seems to care.

    Yes, there are people like that. They are a problem. If all the people who currently accept the restrictions are like that, then my forecasts are no good. But a lot of people who accept the restrictions under current conditions will not accept them when Covid levels get down to where they are in Israel and the UK.  We shouldn’t be overly binary about it and we shouldn’t expect everyone else to be binary about it.   If we’re in the group that says covid is all a big nothingburger (one type of binary) then we’re in no position to influence the situation. If we’re in the group that cowers in fear until the last covid case is gone (another type of binary) then we’re in no position to influence the situation. But a lot of people are in between. 

    • #38
  9. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):
    Except for my neighbors here in Washington state, who will go along with whatever the Dictator in Olympia tells them to do. No uprisings, no protests, near-complete compliance with statewide mask mandate that, in my opinion, will never be lifted. Really, with the prospect of my county being forced to move back a phase in a week due to “rising cases”, that mask mandate is forever. And no one seems to care.

    Yes, there are people like that. They are a problem. If all the people who currently accept the restrictions are like that, then my forecasts are no good. But a lot of people who accept the restrictions under current conditions will not accept them when Covid levels get down to where they are in Israel and the UK. We shouldn’t be overly binary about it and we shouldn’t expect everyone else to be binary about it. If we’re in the group that says covid is all a big nothingburger (one type of binary) then we’re in no position to influence the situation. If we’re in the group that cowers in fear until the last covid case is gone (another type of binary) then we’re in no position to influence the situation. But a lot of people are in between.

    I guess another way of saying it is this: Don’t drive people into one extremist camp or the other.  If the only choices that we acknowledge are a) the restrictions will lead to totalitarianism and b) none of the restrictions is warranted, a lot of people who would come down somewhere in between will go to choice a) rather than b).  There needs to be a social support system for those who would come down somewhere in between.  People are social animals, and there needs to be a place for them. 

    • #39
  10. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):
    Except for my neighbors here in Washington state, who will go along with whatever the Dictator in Olympia tells them to do. No uprisings, no protests, near-complete compliance with statewide mask mandate that, in my opinion, will never be lifted. Really, with the prospect of my county being forced to move back a phase in a week due to “rising cases”, that mask mandate is forever. And no one seems to care.

    Yes, there are people like that. They are a problem. If all the people who currently accept the restrictions are like that, then my forecasts are no good. But a lot of people who accept the restrictions under current conditions will not accept them when Covid levels get down to where they are in Israel and the UK. We shouldn’t be overly binary about it and we shouldn’t expect everyone else to be binary about it. If we’re in the group that says covid is all a big nothingburger (one type of binary) then we’re in no position to influence the situation. If we’re in the group that cowers in fear until the last covid case is gone (another type of binary) then we’re in no position to influence the situation. But a lot of people are in between.

    I guess another way of saying it is this: Don’t drive people into one extremist camp or the other. If the only choices that we acknowledge are a) the restrictions will lead to totalitarianism and b) none of the restrictions is warranted, a lot of people who would come down somewhere in between will go to choice a) rather than b). There needs to be a social support system for those who would come down somewhere in between. People are social animals, and there needs to be a place for them.

    I didn’t lay out those two extremes very well, did I?  How about this:  “If the only choices that we acknowledge are a) we need severe shutdowns until covid is stamped out, and b) none of the restrictions is or ever was warranted…”

    • #40
  11. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    I had Covid in December. If that doesn’t give me immunity I don’t see how an immunization shot will. Even if I am not immune, the case I had in December was a moderate chest cold that did not prevent me from working the whole time I had it. Even if I get it again, it won’t be much worse, and according to experience milder. Why bother with a shot?

    After thinking about it Seawriter, these vaccines don’t work like a traditional vaccine where they inject a dead strain of the virus and you build up immunity from it.  At least the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines inject some proteins designed to simulate the virus and you build immunity off that.  So I don’t know if it’s the same thing as getting the virus.  There may still be advantages to getting the vaccine.  But I’m not a medical professional and I’m just speculating here.  Don’t put me in that same category as the stupid surgeon…lol.

    • #41
  12. She Member
    She
    @She

    Glad you’re feeling better, @manny.  I was slightly more affected by the first dose than the second (Pfizer), but neither bothered me very much.  More bothersome at the moment (large quantities of vaccine must have fallen off the last train that rolled through PA at midnight) is the sudden influx of text messages and phone calls from Lord-knows-who offering to vaccinate me now that “vaccines have been approved for all age groups.”  They’re almost as annoying, and just about as useful, as the ones pretending to know that my car’s extended warranty (for the vehicle I sold nine months ago) is about to run out.

    • #42
  13. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    She (View Comment):

    Glad you’re feeling better, @ manny. I was slightly more affected by the first dose than the second (Pfizer), but neither bothered me very much. More bothersome at the moment (large quantities of vaccine must have fallen off the last train that rolled through PA at midnight) is the sudden influx of text messages and phone calls from Lord-knows-who offering to vaccinate me now that “vaccines have been approved for all age groups.” They’re almost as annoying, and just about as useful, as the ones pretending to know that my car’s extended warranty (for the vehicle I sold nine months ago) is about to run out.

    This is a big pet peeve for me: in our current surveillance state where anyone can pay Amazon, Google, Facebook for your personal dats, somehow they don’t seem to know when you’ve already bought what they are selling, even if they sold it to you. And that’s not the scammers (who will always be with us). 

    • #43
  14. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Manny (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    I had Covid in December. If that doesn’t give me immunity I don’t see how an immunization shot will. Even if I am not immune, the case I had in December was a moderate chest cold that did not prevent me from working the whole time I had it. Even if I get it again, it won’t be much worse, and according to experience milder. Why bother with a shot?

    After thinking about it Seawriter, these vaccines don’t work like a traditional vaccine where they inject a dead strain of the virus and you build up immunity from it. At least the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines inject some proteins designed to simulate the virus and you build immunity off that. So I don’t know if it’s the same thing as getting the virus. There may still be advantages to getting the vaccine. But I’m not a medical professional and I’m just speculating here. Don’t put me in that same category as the stupid surgeon…lol.

    Well, at least you have a more rational explanation than he did.

    But my question (which I don’t expect you to answer and hope someone on Ricochet who does know can) is why is does a simulated virus provide better protection than the real thing? And why would a simulated virus built from what was active six months before I got Covid protect me better than antibodies developed from the latest-greatest strain that I got? And why should I expect the next case of Covid-19 I get to be worse than the last case (which was milder than your reaction to the shot)?

    • #44
  15. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    But my question (which I don’t expect you to answer and hope someone on Ricochet who does know can) is why is does a simulated virus provide better protection than the real thing? And why would a simulated virus built from what was active six months before I got Covid protect me better than antibodies developed from the latest-greatest strain that I got? And why should I expect the next case of Covid-19 I get to be worse than the last case (which was milder than your reaction to the shot)?

    That’s a good question. When Shane Crotty (who is one of the prominent researchers on this topic) talked about it on MedCram, he didn’t offer any explanations as to why, nor did the interviewer press for one. He just told us what the data have been telling the researchers. And the data seem to say that sometimes the actual virus does provide better immunity, but it’s a crap shoot. On average it doesn’t.  There is a huge variation in the immunity the actual disease provides. Maybe there was some speculation that it depends on the severity of the infection, but if that were known to be the case I’d think he’d have said so and I’d have remembered it. Maybe I should watch that interview again. 

    And it should be said, before Dr. Fauci goes all supercilious on us like he did on Rand Paul when Sen. Paul brought up this topic with him, Crotty’s group is studying the indicators of immunity, in the form of T-cells and antibodies, etc.  We don’t yet know how well these indicators actually predict the rates at which people are protected (if it makes any sense to say it that way). It would be surprising if they don’t, given what is known about how immunity works, but the proof as to what actually happens is always in the data.  

    • #45
  16. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    She (View Comment):

    Glad you’re feeling better, @ manny. I was slightly more affected by the first dose than the second (Pfizer), but neither bothered me very much. More bothersome at the moment (large quantities of vaccine must have fallen off the last train that rolled through PA at midnight) is the sudden influx of text messages and phone calls from Lord-knows-who offering to vaccinate me now that “vaccines have been approved for all age groups.” They’re almost as annoying, and just about as useful, as the ones pretending to know that my car’s extended warranty (for the vehicle I sold nine months ago) is about to run out.

    Yes, now there’s a glut of vaccines. For the longest time I couldn’t schedule one for my 87 year old mother. Now they’re giving them away like candy. ;)

    • #46
  17. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    I had Covid in December. If that doesn’t give me immunity I don’t see how an immunization shot will. Even if I am not immune, the case I had in December was a moderate chest cold that did not prevent me from working the whole time I had it. Even if I get it again, it won’t be much worse, and according to experience milder. Why bother with a shot?

    After thinking about it Seawriter, these vaccines don’t work like a traditional vaccine where they inject a dead strain of the virus and you build up immunity from it. At least the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines inject some proteins designed to simulate the virus and you build immunity off that. So I don’t know if it’s the same thing as getting the virus. There may still be advantages to getting the vaccine. But I’m not a medical professional and I’m just speculating here. Don’t put me in that same category as the stupid surgeon…lol.

    Well, at least you have a more rational explanation than he did.

    But my question (which I don’t expect you to answer and hope someone on Ricochet who does know can) is why is does a simulated virus provide better protection than the real thing? And why would a simulated virus built from what was active six months before I got Covid protect me better than antibodies developed from the latest-greatest strain that I got? And why should I expect the next case of Covid-19 I get to be worse than the last case (which was milder than your reaction to the shot)?

    Great questions. I’d love to know the answers too. 

    • #47
  18. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    I wasn’t fearful of getting Covid but expected that once the vaccination was widely available, the health nazis would be making life for the unvaccinated difficult.

    Serious question: how would they know you are unvaccinated? They cannot demand a vaccine card without violating HIPAA, as far as I know. Even if they can demand it, it is easy enough to fake a card. Laminate it and no one can tell the difference between a photoshopped card and the real thing.

    CDC records for instant check just like NICS for gun purchases. 

    • #48
  19. Philip Homer Inactive
    Philip Homer
    @Philopus

    Just for the record, this is not a vaccine; it is an experimental biological gene therapy immune-modulatory injection of a synthetic sequence of nucleic acid (M-RNA). I’m surprised how many people are lining up to be human Guinea pigs. Surviving the shot is only the beginning of the potential long-term side effects.

    • #49
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Philip Homer (View Comment):
    Just for the record, this is not a vaccine; it is an experimental biological gene therapy immune-modulatory injection of a synthetic sequence of nucleic acid (M-RNA).

    Here is a definition of “vaccine” from the web:

    A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.

    Here is another:

    a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

    A third:

    an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see attenuated sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)

    A fourth:

    any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses, to stimulate antibody production.

    So how are these vaccines not a vaccine?  Do you have a different definition than these?

    • #50
  21. Philip Homer Inactive
    Philip Homer
    @Philopus

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Philip Homer (View Comment):
    Just for the record, this is not a vaccine; it is an experimental biological gene therapy immune-modulatory injection of a synthetic sequence of nucleic acid (M-RNA).

    Here is a definition of “vaccine” from the web:

    A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.

    Here is another:

    a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

    A third:

    an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see attenuated sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)

    A fourth:

    any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses, to stimulate antibody production.

    So how are these vaccines not a vaccine? Do you have a different definition than these?

    While I don’t take everything that is found on the “web” to be definitive, I will accept your point. The point I was making was meant to be on the experimental nature of what is being presented as a viable solution to the Covid-19 scare. 

    • #51
  22. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Philip Homer (View Comment):
    While I don’t take everything that is found on the “web” to be definitive, I will accept your point. The point I was making was meant to be on the experimental nature of what is being presented as a viable solution to the Covid-19 scare. 

    Well, it is experimental.  It’s as if the former solution for cross-country travel was to be shot from a cannon from one end of the country to another. But there were casualties. Then somebody comes up with an idea: How about instead of one big explosion, we try a series of small, contained explosions. We could call it an internal explosion engine, or internal combustion engine. But the naysayers say, “No, that’s experimental. Load me into the cannon!”  

    Or another analogy: It has been proven that if a bull enters the china shop, the security staff wakes from its slumbers and goes into action to drive it out and close the doors so it doesn’t come back. But somebody comes up with an idea: Instead of letting an entire bull into the china shop, let’s drop a couple of cowpies (bullpies) into the china shop. Maybe that will be enough to put the security staff on alert. But the naysayers say, “No! That’s too experimental. We need the whole bull!”  

    So, yes, these mRNA vaccines are experimental. But they’re doing only a tiny subset of what the whole virus does when it enters your body, either through your respiratory system or in (hopefully) inactive form through a vaccine. 

    • #52
  23. Philip Homer Inactive
    Philip Homer
    @Philopus

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Analogies are much more useful if they refer to actual facts. We do not know yet how lethal the vaccines are since, being experimental, they have not gone thru normal testing. Vaccine safety requires proper animal trials and peer-reviewed data, neither of which has occurred during operation warp speed. This is especially concerning considering the fatal failure of prior coronavirus vaccine attempts such as SARS-CoV-1, the virus that is 78% identical to SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19). Prior coronavirus (and other respiratory) vaccines have failed due to the scientific phenomena known as pathogenic priming that makes the vaccine recipient more likely to suffer a sudden fatal outcome due to massive cytokine storm when exposed to the wild virus.

    We do, however, know that COVID-19 is not lethal to most of our population. The most enduring myth regarding COVID-19 is that this is a highly lethal infection. It is not. The data is unequivocal:

    • COVID-19 kills very rarely and is mostly limited to the medically fragile
    • COVID-19 is less deadly than influenza in children
    • COVID-19 is similar lethality in the middle adult years and treatable

    When talking about the risk/benefit ratio of any treatment we must consider the Infection Fatality Ratio or IFR. The IFR for COVID-19 varies dramatically by age, from a low of 0.003% for Americans under age 19 to as high as 5.4% for those 70 years of age and above. (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html) That is a 1800x risk difference based upon age! It is quite clear that young people are at a statistically insignificant risk of death from COVID-19. Nearly 80% of all coronavirus-related deaths in the US through November 28, 2020, have occurred in adults 65 years of age and older and only 6% of the deaths had COVID-19 as the only cause mentioned. On average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities)

    For most people under the age of 65, the risk of dying from COVID-19 is not much higher than from getting in a car accident driving to work. In California and Florida, the fatality risk for the under-65 crowd is about equal to driving 16 to 17 miles per day. While higher in hot spots like New York (668 miles) and New Jersey (572 miles), the death risk is still lower than the public perceives. The risk climbs especially for those over age 80. According to the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity, Americans over 85 are about 2.75 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those 75 to 84, seven times more likely than those 65 to 74, and 16.8 times more than those 55 to 64. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-COVID-age-penalty-11592003287)

    • #53
  24. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Philip Homer (View Comment):
    Analogies are much more useful if they refer to actual facts.

    I’d have to see an example of such an analogy before I could judge whether it’s more useful.  I am skeptical.  

    • #54
  25. Clavius Thatcher
    Clavius
    @Clavius

    I’m over four days in and still have fatigue and gastrointestinal discomfort.  It’s more or less the worst I’ve felt in over a year.

    I admit that over-exertion during the first three days after the vaccine could have contributed.

    • #55
  26. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    How does that make things difficult for the nazis?  People won’t need their precious lockdowns any more. We won’t need their tracing and tracking efforts. We won’t need the nazis. They are going to find that hard to accept and won’t let go willingly, but the population isn’t going to accept their efforts to keep it all going under those conditions. 

    We should all assume that Big Pharma is behind the push.   They want to give 1 billions jabs a year (forever) at $500/jab.  Vaccine passports will enable them to force the product on the Western World.  Politicians will line up enable it, because they want that big payoff after politics. 

    • #56
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    How does that make things difficult for the nazis? People won’t need their precious lockdowns any more. We won’t need their tracing and tracking efforts. We won’t need the nazis. They are going to find that hard to accept and won’t let go willingly, but the population isn’t going to accept their efforts to keep it all going under those conditions.

    We should all assume that Big Pharma is behind the push. They want to give 1 billions jabs a year (forever) at $500/jab. Vaccine passports will enable them to force the product on the Western World. Politicians will line up enable it, because they want that big payoff after politics.

    Big Pharma could obviously benefit from a lot of vaccinations, but where do you get that $500 per vaccination?

    • #57
  28. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Philip Homer (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Analogies are much more useful if they refer to actual facts. We do not know yet how lethal the vaccines are since, being experimental, they have not gone thru normal testing. Vaccine safety requires proper animal trials and peer-reviewed data, neither of which has occurred during operation warp speed. This is especially concerning considering the fatal failure of prior coronavirus vaccine attempts such as SARS-CoV-1, the virus that is 78% identical to SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19). Prior coronavirus (and other respiratory) vaccines have failed due to the scientific phenomena known as pathogenic priming that makes the vaccine recipient more likely to suffer a sudden fatal outcome due to massive cytokine storm when exposed to the wild virus.

    We do, however, know that COVID-19 is not lethal to most of our population. The most enduring myth regarding COVID-19 is that this is a highly lethal infection. It is not. The data is unequivocal:

    • COVID-19 kills very rarely and is mostly limited to the medically fragile
    • COVID-19 is less deadly than influenza in children
    • COVID-19 is similar lethality in the middle adult years and treatable

    When talking about the risk/benefit ratio of any treatment we must consider the Infection Fatality Ratio or IFR. The IFR for COVID-19 varies dramatically by age, from a low of 0.003% for Americans under age 19 to as high as 5.4% for those 70 years of age and above. (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html) That is a 1800x risk difference based upon age! It is quite clear that young people are at a statistically insignificant risk of death from COVID-19. Nearly 80% of all coronavirus-related deaths in the US through November 28, 2020, have occurred in adults 65 years of age and older and only 6% of the deaths had COVID-19 as the only cause mentioned. On average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities)

    For most people under the age of 65, the risk of dying from COVID-19 is not much higher than from getting in a car accident driving to work. In California and Florida, the fatality risk for the under-65 crowd is about equal to driving 16 to 17 miles per day. While higher in hot spots like New York (668 miles) and New Jersey (572 miles), the death risk is still lower than the public perceives. The risk climbs especially for those over age 80. According to the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity, Americans over 85 are about 2.75 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those 75 to 84, seven times more likely than those 65 to 74, and 16.8 times more than those 55 to 64. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-COVID-age-penalty-11592003287)

    You’re arguing against yourself. The vaccine does only a small subset of what sars-cov-2 does, which is a point my analogies were making. If you’re not worried about covid-19, why on earth are you warning against something that does only a tiny piece of what covid-19 does? 

    • #58
  29. Chris Member
    Chris
    @Chris

    Chris (View Comment):

    Wife and I received our second Moderna’s about 12 hours ago. No issues from the first… guess we’ll just have to wait and see on this one.

    Sorry for the late report on our Wednesday 2nd dose but basically on Thursday we felt a little blah, had sore injection points, and treated everything with Tylenol and take out pizza.  Friday pretty much back to normal.

    • #59
  30. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Chris (View Comment):
    . . .and treated everything with Tylenol and take out pizza.

    I like your idea of treatment, at least the latter half.

    • #60
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