Everyone Has the Floyd Arrest Wrong

 

I think the police and district attorney have the wrong problem and the wrong solution.

Based on the say-so of a store clerk, they arrested Floyd. That’s the real problem. They had no evidence that Floyd committed a crime except for the say-so of a store clerk. That’s weak sauce to arrest someone.

There was no threat of violence. There was no danger to society. The police should have taken the statement of the clerk and then gone off to the magistrate to issue a summons for Floyd to appear in court. They should have submitted evidence of the bad $20 bill to the magistrate. Then they should have sought out Floyd and issued him a summons to come to court for a hearing. There should have been no reason to arrest him at all.

The “terry stop” has been a disaster for law enforcement. Police only need a slight pretense in order to detain someone for an investigation, and that gives them the power to search anyone at any time. Terry stops turn our right to be secure in our persons upside down.

We need to overturn “Terry” and force police to have a more substantial reason to search someone. We need to outlaw civil asset forfeitures which gives police a powerful incentive to steal money and property from people.

And we need to stop granting life and death power to the police at any time they wish to issue commands to someone.

George Floyd was not an immediate threat to anyone that day. It is a perversion of the law to put anyone in a life-threatening situation when there was no immediate apparent danger and the police didn’t even have first-hand knowledge of a crime.

About twenty years ago I was accused of passing a bad twenty-dollar bill by a new waitress at my favorite restaurant. Thankfully she didn’t call the police, she chased me down in the parking lot. So we went back inside, I called the manager. She showed the “bad” $20 and the end result was she forfeited her tip and I never saw her working there again. Turns out the $20 was a silver certificate bill. I still have it in my collection. I suppose there might be a chance that it’s a counterfeit bill, I doubt it, but the point is that no one arrested me and society didn’t collapse.

The police have too much power. They have the power of life and death over us at any moment they wish, and it is rare that anyone questions how they wield that power. It’s a recipe for tyranny and it needs to end. We need police reform, not because of racism, which is laughable, but because the police have gotten too dangerously powerful and are a threat to our civilization as they operate now.

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  1. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The store had Floyd’s counterfeit $20. That’s prima facie evidence of the crime.

    Id much prefer that to living in a surveillance state ( not that we aren’t half-way there already)

    1.  The cop didn’t see Floyd give it to her.  The cop isn’t an expert on counterfeit bills.  Even if those are both sufficient, they could have written a summon like they would for a speeding ticket.

    2.  This is not an “either-or” proposition.  What does living in a surveillance state have to do with anything?

    • #31
  2. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    I am with you Skyler. Maybe because I have been watching to much Audit the Audit (mostly Cops gone wrong). So I don’t know how rare they are I just know how many of those allow the horrible behavior to stand because courts have allowed it.

    Almost all the expansion of policing powers has been from court cases since the sovereign immunity (made up by the worse supreme court bench we ever had)  case in 1967.

    If they have seen you commit a felon. Then I think they are in the right. However they should never be allowed to arrest someone for misdemeanors. Get a Warrant. If someone said you have commit a felon then ok. Detaining someone for 10 or 20 mins is fine to see if you can get more info.  However there should be very strict ridged limits that cops will personally have libility for if they clearly step outside of these bounders.

    I have always found throwing out criminal evidence and convictions because Cops collected it incorrectly corrupt. As long as its factually (not say light tainted lab evidence) it should stand.

    It just should be the cops loses their petition is never allowed to work for any government again.

    No you allow the persons rights being violated to prosecute the bad cops as if they are a private citizen for breaking the law. Both parties should due time.

    I think its nuts to give the goverment more power with out checks or any real accountability if you break the highest law of the land aka the constitution.

    Congress could fix it by making a law that overturns all these court cases that gave the police all this power over the last 50 years by mostly Rebuplican appointed judges.

    I think we are showing we are real classic liberals by wanted check and limits to police power. However most people her are more classic conservative and not really classic liberals. This is true of most Republicans.

    • #32
  3. JamesSalerno Inactive
    JamesSalerno
    @JamesSalerno

    I like this post. Comservatives too often back police without question and I think it’s important to raise questions, although I’m not sure where I stand with this in relation to Floyd.

    I do think we need more local control over our law enforcement. I want their feet held to the fire when they’re enforcing unconstitutional legislation. I don’t want more central authority. When Democrats propose abolishing the police, or reforming the police, what they really want is a nationalized police force, which is ridiculously unconstitutional. Nearly all of our problems today come from too much central authority.

    • #33
  4. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Just trying to think this idea through….

    it makes shoplifting more or less legal. Counterfeiting too. Consider…Store employees call the police on a shoplifter. Unless the police arrive in time to find the thief with steaks down their pants the crook is home free. Same with counterfeiting. And counterfeiting is a very serious crime.

    Just what would be the odds that Floyd would appear for the summons?

     

    Good question. Not appearing for a summons should be sufficient cause for a judge to issue a capias and then have the police drag him into court. SNIP Police have too much discretion to arrest people. There is no reason to trust the police, who have shown far too often in the past few decades that they are quite willing to abuse their power. To be effective, the police need to be perceived of as impartial instruments. They do not have nor do they deserve such a reputation now nor have they for decades.

    As for your shoplifter scenario.SNIP  Terry needs to be overturned.

    Counterfeiting is only a mildly serious crime. What harm does a counterfeiter do compared to a Congress that invents trillions of dollars seemingly every day?

    There is little evidence that Floyd was a counterfeiter. Does he appear to be smart enough to make fake money? If he passed a bad bill, it’s likely someone else made it, not him.  SNIP Such investigation should be conducted by a detective, not a rank and file officer, and an arrest should be based on a warrant from a duly elected (or appointed in some jurisdictions) judge or magistrate. We need a better separation of judicial power and executive power.

     

    The store had Floyd’s counterfeit $20. That’s prima facie evidence of the crime.

    Id much prefer that to living in a surveillance state ( not that we aren’t half-way there already)

    Oh please, any one can end up passing a bad note.

    I stood behind a guy in a local hardware store. Apparently he was a well known customer of that store. He paid for a lot of items – big manly items for a construction project. He handed the cashier these nice crisp brand spanking new bills.

    The clerk handed them back. “I can put this stuff on your account, but those bills are not legit.” She paused. “Where did you get them?”

    His reply: “The Wells Fargo up the street.”

    Given that WF is one of them most notorious drug laundering “legit businesses” out there, I don’t doubt it for a second. I don’t know what this man did after he left the store. My hope is he went to the police. After all,  if he was doing such a good job of making fake bills, he probably would not be out on a hot day trying to get the supplies for a large construction job.

    • #34
  5. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Skyler I have mostly refrained from commenting on the many posts about the officers and George Floyd. In part due to my thinking matching yours. I just did not know how to frame the matter as eloquently as you just did.

    I don’t like seeing cops facing murder charges. However the explanations offering a  defense for the police seem weird. On the one hand, Floyd was a dying man, but on the other hand he was such a threat to the police that he needed to be subdued in a manner that might be the cause of his death. Which is it?

    • #35
  6. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Skyler I have mostly refrained from commenting on the many posts about the officers and George Floyd. In part due to my thinking matching yours. I just did not know how to frame the matter as eloquently as you just did.

    Aw, shucks.

    • #36
  7. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You need a better example than Floyd. We needed the cops to take him off the street, nevermind about his own safety. Floyd died because he ate a ton of drugs. The cops may have too much power, but saying so by pointing to George Floyd is … confusing. Counterproductive. Maybe unhinged.

    Or Floyd ate a ton of drugs to hide them from the arresting officer?

    Yes, he did. I left it out intentionally and you bit. Now, why is that significant to you?

    • #37
  8. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You need a better example than Floyd. We needed the cops to take him off the street, nevermind about his own safety. Floyd died because he ate a ton of drugs. The cops may have too much power, but saying so by pointing to George Floyd is … confusing. Counterproductive. Maybe unhinged.

    Or Floyd ate a ton of drugs to hide them from the arresting officer?

    Yes, he did. I left it out intentionally and you bit. Now, why is that significant to you?

    Because if he weren’t unconstitutionally arrested based on the say-so of an ill trained complaining witness, he probably wouldn’t have ingested all those drugs to hide them from the police.  

    I didn’t “bite.”  That is the point of my post, it’s the major theme.  

    • #38
  9. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You need a better example than Floyd. We needed the cops to take him off the street, nevermind about his own safety. Floyd died because he ate a ton of drugs. The cops may have too much power, but saying so by pointing to George Floyd is … confusing. Counterproductive. Maybe unhinged.

    Or Floyd ate a ton of drugs to hide them from the arresting officer?

    Yes, he did. I left it out intentionally and you bit. Now, why is that significant to you?

    Because if he weren’t unconstitutionally arrested based on the say-so of an ill trained complaining witness, he probably wouldn’t have ingested all those drugs to hide them from the police.

    I didn’t “bite.” That is the point of my post, it’s the major theme.

    Anybody can be a witness, so let’s dispense with the “ill trained” bit. Which constitution are you reading? Mine says the cops can arrest someone who is breaking the law. So that’s out.

    Yes. I wanted to make it clear without superfluous distractions. That does seem to be the theme: That if you break the law because the presence of policemen scares you, you get an exemption and we should have kept those scary cops away from you. [Sorry about the second person voice; substitute “George” if necessary.]

    • #39
  10. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Why don’t we just defund the police and not apply laws to POC?  Saves all that time and money of writing summons nobody is going to pay attention to or even be enforced.

    • #40
  11. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The store had Floyd’s counterfeit $20. That’s prima facie evidence of the crime.

    Id much prefer that to living in a surveillance state ( not that we aren’t half-way there already)

    1. The cop didn’t see Floyd give it to her. The cop isn’t an expert on counterfeit bills. Even if those are both sufficient, they could have written a summon like they would for a speeding ticket.

    2. This is not an “either-or” proposition. What does living in a surveillance state have to do with anything?

    Your personal experience with a waitress some time ago is not informative of current retail reality. The SOP, when there is any concern, is be to either swipe the note with a counterfeit detection pen or to pass it through a machine that does the same task. So, it is nearly certain the bill was bad and everyone knew it. Were Floyd not drug-addled, he would have had real currency as well, feigned upset at being stuck with a counterfeit, and paid for the merchandise with good money. That would have flipped the script, making him a crime victim of some unknown counterfeiting racket.

    Passing bad paper steals from the person, the small shop keeper, stuck with the counterfeit. That individual is out $20 in some combination of inventory and change. 

    • #41
  12. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    They have the power of life and death over us at any moment they wish, and it is rare that anyone questions how they wield that power.

    I don’t think I agree with the last part, but it’s a subject that’s been surrendered to the left. Its unfortunate that constant reminders of the craziest in their ranks have made police reforms such a partisan debate. I’m seeing more on the right pick it up though. 

    Good post, very interesting. 

    • #42
  13. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):
    Your personal experience with a waitress some time ago is not informative of current retail reality. The SOP, when there is any concern, is be to either swipe the note with a counterfeit detection pen or to pass it through a machine that does the same task. So, it is nearly certain the bill was bad and everyone knew it.

    No.  The police officer had to take the word of the shop keeper that Floyd gave him the bad bill, that the bill he gave was the same as the one shown to the police, and that Floyd knew that it was a bad bill and he intentionally used it.  There’s a whole lot of assuming going on and I think that assuming should be for a judge to decide to issue a warrant to arrest.

    Also, a silver certificate is still legal tender but will fail the pen test you mention.

    • #43
  14. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Let’s start over. The cops were called by a citizen with legitimate reason. They encountered the suspected guy and began by asking questions. George Floyd is the one who escalated the situation every step of the way. I suspect that Floyd would have done the same if someone were serving him a summons as he did right there in front of Cup Foods. Delay of the benign encounter is not the issue. George Floyd escalating it into a non-benign encounter is the issue.

    • #44
  15. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Let’s start over. The cops were called by a citizen with legitimate reason. They encountered the suspected guy and began by asking questions. George Floyd is the one who escalated the situation every step of the way. I suspect that Floyd would have done the same if someone were serving him a summons as he did right there in front of Cup Foods. Delay of the benign encounter is not the issue. George Floyd escalating it into a non-benign encounter is the issue.

    We’ll never know. 

    • #45
  16. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Let’s start over. The cops were called by a citizen with legitimate reason. They encountered the suspected guy and began by asking questions. George Floyd is the one who escalated the situation every step of the way. I suspect that Floyd would have done the same if someone were serving him a summons as he did right there in front of Cup Foods. Delay of the benign encounter is not the issue. George Floyd escalating it into a non-benign encounter is the issue.

    We’ll never know.

    Yes, and we have George Floyd to thank for it. We have the video. We have the autopsy report. At best Chauvin misapplied an approved restraint move , and it was George Floyd who escalated to the point of needing restraint.

    • #46
  17. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    They have the power of life and death over us at any moment they wish, and it is rare that anyone questions how they wield that power.

    I don’t think I agree with the last part, but it’s a subject that’s been surrendered to the left. Its unfortunate that constant reminders of the craziest in their ranks have made police reforms such a partisan debate. I’m seeing more on the right pick it up though.

    Good post, very interesting.

    This is the other reason I avoided posting about my thoughts on the Floyd arrest.

    It is now so easy for a person to judge another individual as being part of “the other side” when there is no longer any middle ground on any issue.

    Police reform definitely deserves that middle ground. So many many examples of police over reaction. A subway police officer who shoots a guy for jumping over a the ticker processing gate. The guy who is shot dies. For not having 2 bucks and change?

    Police who decide that a mentally ill man tearing apart the trailer his parents bought him should be told  to “calm down, let us in.” The man  is mentally ill. Any one trained in dealing with mental cases understands the mentally ill do not process such commands. The man is inside his own residence, harming only his own things. So during the one and only week long vacation his mom has had in her entire life, the cops break down the door and shoot the guy dead, for “resisting arrest.”

    Some years ago, Jay Leno got some laughs during his reading of “Funny Headlines.” The headline involved the police commanding another mentally ill man to quit attempting to knife himself in the stomach. So they shot the guy to prevent him from knifing himself to death. Jay himself seemed a bit upset about it. But in part the laughs came as we all have known of cases where the cops could have done someone some good, but only made things worse.

    Other nations deal with their mentally ill in a more sensible manner. As someone who has worked with the mentally ill, one key component is to wait out a rampage and not ramp things up by screaming at a person. Training is needed. These matters often  happen in leafy suburbs where it is not likely that by spending an hour on the scene, the cops will miss out on some more major crime stopping effort being nixed because they spent time on this one scene.

    • #47
  18. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Let’s start over. The cops were called by a citizen with legitimate reason. They encountered the suspected guy and began by asking questions. George Floyd is the one who escalated the situation every step of the way. I suspect that Floyd would have done the same if someone were serving him a summons as he did right there in front of Cup Foods. Delay of the benign encounter is not the issue. George Floyd escalating it into a non-benign encounter is the issue.

    We’ll never know.

    Yes, and we have George Floyd to thank for it. We have the video. We have the autopsy report. At best Chauvin misapplied an approved restraint move , and it was George Floyd who escalated to the point of needing restraint.

    I think you’re missing the entire point.

    • #48
  19. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Let’s start over. The cops were called by a citizen with legitimate reason. They encountered the suspected guy and began by asking questions. George Floyd is the one who escalated the situation every step of the way. I suspect that Floyd would have done the same if someone were serving him a summons as he did right there in front of Cup Foods. Delay of the benign encounter is not the issue. George Floyd escalating it into a non-benign encounter is the issue.

    We’ll never know.

    Yes, and we have George Floyd to thank for it. We have the video. We have the autopsy report. At best Chauvin misapplied an approved restraint move , and it was George Floyd who escalated to the point of needing restraint.

    I think you’re missing the entire point.

    I think I am disagreeing with your point. I think the original interaction was legitimate and I would not want the police to be prevented from such interaction. This case in particular I don’t believe is really what you’re calling a Terry Stop (i.e. stop and frisk). I’m not necessarily against Terry Stops either, but this was way firmer than that even.

    • #49
  20. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Ed G. (View Comment):

     This case in particular I don’t believe is really what you’re calling a Terry Stop (i.e. stop and frisk).

    Stop and frisk is not a Terry Stop.   Neither was Floyd’s arrest.  I was using the example of a terry stop as a lower limit.

    • #50
  21. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    This case in particular I don’t believe is really what you’re calling a Terry Stop (i.e. stop and frisk).

    Stop and frisk is not a Terry Stop. Neither was Floyd’s arrest. I was using the example of a terry stop as a lower limit.

    I see. I’ll bow out then since I don’t know the specific terminology. Just wanted to lay down the earlier marker. Good luck all!

    • #51
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Ed G. (View Comment):
    I see. I’ll bow out then since I don’t know the specific terminology. Just wanted to lay down the earlier marker. Good luck all!

    But you made your point.  You are in favor of the police power to arrest in these circumstances.  That’s why we’re here, to debate and discuss.  I have taken a position and I like to defend it!

    • #52
  23. Al Sparks Coolidge
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    I find some of the inflammatory language against the police by the OP to be distasteful.  We live in a fallen world, and of course you’re going to find examples of egregious conduct by cops, but the chances of that have gone way down in the modern United States.

    I have no sympathy for someone who resists arrest.  If such a person gets killed because they started that escalation, I’m not willing to refer to that as murder.

    The OP does have a point regarding Terry Stops, but Floyd’s stop wasn’t that.

    The call by the store clerk included allegations of intoxication and that Floyd was about to drive.  To me, that’s enough for the police stop, since Floyd would have been a danger to others.

    Floyd’s autopsy indicates that the clerk wasn’t lying.

    Sorry, but all Floyd had to do was comply with police commands, and he’d still be alive.  If his alleged intoxication was part of the problem, the stop was still justified because he was intoxicated behind the wheel of a vehicle.

    • #53
  24. Al Sparks Coolidge
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    Skyler: About twenty years ago I was accused of passing a bad twenty-dollar bill by a new waitress at my favorite restaurant. Thankfully she didn’t call the police, she chased me down in the parking lot. So we went back inside, I called the manager. She showed the “bad” $20 and the end result was she forfeited her tip and I never saw her working there again.

    And what if she had called the police?  If you hadn’t resisted arrest, if it even got that far, you would have cleared it up in court.  Chances are you would have cleared it up with the cops if you weren’t a jerk towards them — something you don’t seem to be inclined to do if we were to go by your above post.

    As an aside, I had my own issue with a counterfeit bill, but it was in Britain.  It was a manager that chased me down outside the Italian restaurant.  He showed me why it was counterfeit, I handed him another equivalent pound bill, and we were even.  He saw I was an American tourist who didn’t know better.

    I guess that if the cops were called, they typically aren’t armed in that country, yet my understanding is that they have even more discretion when deciding to detain someone.

    • #54
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Just trying to think this idea through….

    it makes shoplifting more or less legal. Counterfeiting too. Consider…Store employees call the police on a shoplifter. Unless the police arrive in time to find the thief with steaks down their pants the crook is home free. Same with counterfeiting. And counterfeiting is a very serious crime.

    Just what would be the odds that Floyd would appear for the summons?

     

    Good question. Not appearing for a summons should be sufficient cause for a judge to issue a capias and then have the police drag him into court. Not appearing in court is a good reason to arrest someone, and unless there is an immediate threat to the safety of the people, the power to arrest should be limited by the say so of a court. Police have too much discretion to arrest people. There is no reason to trust the police, who have shown far too often in the past few decades that they are quite willing to abuse their power. To be effective, the police need to be perceived of as impartial instruments. They do not have nor do they deserve such a reputation now nor have they for decades.

    As for your shoplifter scenario. I think it is incumbent on the store to present evidence of the theft before an arrest is made. That is, they can describe (ideally through surveillance video) that property was taken. The suspect can be detained by the shop keeper. If there is evidence of a crime, then they can be arrested, but pre-arrest searches need to be made illegal. Terry needs to be overturned.

    Counterfeiting is only a mildly serious crime. What harm does a counterfeiter do compared to a Congress that invents trillions of dollars seemingly every day?

    There is little evidence that Floyd was a counterfeiter. Does he appear to be smart enough to make fake money? If he passed a bad bill, it’s likely someone else made it, not him. Even if it were him, there is no immediate danger to anyone, and it’s probably more useful to do a more thorough investigation rather than just haul him to jail based on a store clerk’s say so. Such investigation should be conducted by a detective, not a rank and file officer, and an arrest should be based on a warrant from a duly elected (or appointed in some jurisdictions) judge or magistrate. We need a better separation of judicial power and executive power.

    That sounds like a kind of citizen’s arrest.  Aren’t you among those who have argued that such things should not be permitted?

     

    • #55
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I don’t care if people use drugs.  It only makes me more competitive in the job market and life in general.  And if it doesn’t, then good for the drug user.  

    Until you (or just someone else) gets run over and killed or maimed by someone on drugs.

    • #56
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Skyler I have mostly refrained from commenting on the many posts about the officers and George Floyd. In part due to my thinking matching yours. I just did not know how to frame the matter as eloquently as you just did.

    I don’t like seeing cops facing murder charges. However the explanations offering a defense for the police seem weird. On the one hand, Floyd was a dying man, but on the other hand he was such a threat to the police that he needed to be subdued in a manner that might be the cause of his death. Which is it?

    As others have mentioned in other threads, “embrace the power of ‘and.'”

    If all illegal drugs just knocked you out and killed you, then you wouldn’t see meth-heads etc battling with police, often sustaining injuries that they don’t even realize because they’re so whacked out.

    In any event, there seems to be little or no evidence that what the police did “caused” Floyd’s death, or necessarily even hastened it.  And if Floyd had been white, it’s entirely possible the world would have never even heard about it.

    • #57
  28. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):
    That sounds like a kind of citizen’s arrest.  Aren’t you among those who have argued that such things should not be permitted?

    No, it’s not a citizens arrest, but it’s similar. 

    I’ve never argued against citizen arrests as far as I can remember.

    • #58
  29. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I don’t care if people use drugs. It only makes me more competitive in the job market and life in general. And if it doesn’t, then good for the drug user.

    Until you (or just someone else) gets run over and killed or maimed by someone on drugs.

    That’s using drugs and operating a motor vehicle, which is a different kettle of fish.

    • #59
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I don’t care if people use drugs. It only makes me more competitive in the job market and life in general. And if it doesn’t, then good for the drug user.

    Until you (or just someone else) gets run over and killed or maimed by someone on drugs.

    That’s using drugs and operating a motor vehicle, which is a different kettle of fish.

    But if that standard wouldn’t apply to Floyd, when would it?  After they’ve run over and killed or maimed someone?

    • #60
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