Kudos to Richard Epstein

 

On the recent Uncommon Knowledge podcast (with Peter Robinson, Richard Epstein, John Yoo, Andrew McCarthy), Richard Epstein (no Trump lover) makes the most salient and accurate statements regarding the second Impeachment that I have heard:

  1. Intellectually dishonest.
  2. Illegitimate.
  3. Evil.

He makes an unassailable case for each point. Without even trying. Worth listening.

Andrew McCarthy tries to defend the indefensible while admitting that it is indefensible. Thinks it should be done anyway?!

John Yoo dances like a prizefighter who doesn’t want to get his nose bloodied.

And Peter seems to recognize that Trump does have a point when he calls the election illegitimate, inasmuch as many states dispensed with election laws under cover of Covid. No one else will say this, but his guests have to begrudgingly agree. And this is the point. The Left/Democrats/Media/Industrial/Corporate complex are suppressing any suggestion of electoral irregularities when we have seen irregularities as in no other election in American history. To deny this is to take leave of reality. The Left (Time Magazine) even brags about how this was done while pretending what was done was legitimate. Perversity of the highest order.

None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, e.g., that the President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty being removal from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is removed from office.

All of these gentlemen recognize, along with most of the Republican Senators sitting as jurors in Trump’s trial, that in the Impeachment charge of “inciting insurrection” (the mother of all overcharges, such that even Andy McCarthy, that professional indicter of ham sandwiches, admits that it is an overcharge), the Left is attempting to extend a conviction of Trump to all of his supporters, to curtail political activity of any Trump supporter, even to remove from office anyone who supported him. Not since the removal of voting rights from members of the Confederacy in the aftermath of the Civil War has such a thing been attempted for such a large swath of the electorate in the US (and that turned out very badly in the very long run).

And of course, in true Democrat/Leftist fashion, the Democrats are of such limited imagination that they can only charge (falsely, of course) an opponent with doing exactly what they themselves are doing. At the same time. As they falsely charge Trump for inciting insurrection, the Biden administration is supporting Antifa/BLM rioting and mayhem against Federal targets (they might as well be shelling Fort Sumter), with their stated goal of destroying the US. Now that’s insurrection. And the Biden administration is supporting that in word and deed.

One question lingers: How politically myopic is Liz Cheney? And Mitt Romney? and Susan Collins? And Lisa Murkowski? And Pat Toomey? And Ben Sasse? And Bill Cassidy? (Or Peggy Noonan, for that matter?) These good people now own this fiasco of an impeachment trial. May it grace their reputations forever.

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  1. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, eg, that THE President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty REMOVAL from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is REMOVED from office.

    That is NOT the plain text of the US Constitution.

    This is Article I Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    The only reference to the President is that the Supreme Court Justice shall preside over a Presidential impeachment trial, and it does NOT say that disqualification can only ever be imposed if someone has been removed from office. Nowhere in the constitution does it state plainly that only federal government officials can be impeached. According to the plain text of the US constitution, the House can impeach and the Senate can convict anybody on the planet.  The only way to interpret the text otherwise is to rely on emanations and penumbras.

    On the other hand: One can argue that it says removal from office and disqualification, not removal from office or disqualification.  It’s a fair quibble, but still entirely arguable one way or the other.

    IMHO.

    I’m not a lawyer…

    • #1
  2. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, eg, that THE President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty REMOVAL from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is REMOVED from office.

    That is NOT the plain text of the US Constitution.

    This is Article I Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    The only reference to the President is that the Supreme Court Justice shall preside over a Presidential impeachment trial, and it does NOT say that disqualification can only ever be imposed if someone has been removed from office. Nowhere in the constitution does it state plainly that only federal government officials can be impeached. According to the plain text of the US constitution, the House can impeach and the Senate can convict anybody on the planet. The only way to interpret the text otherwise is to rely on emanations and penumbras.

    On the other hand: One can argue that it says removal from office and disqualification, not removal from office or disqualification. It’s a fair quibble, but still entirely arguable one way or the other.

    IMHO.

    I’m not a lawyer…

    <img class=”size-medium wp-image-591789 alignnone” src=”https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/holiday-inn-express-300×225.png” alt=”” width=”300″ height=”225″ />

    Well, Donald Trump is not the President.

    • #2
  3. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    Well, Donald Trump is not the President.

    Which is why the Chief Justice isn’t presiding over the trial.

    • #3
  4. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    Well, Donald Trump is not the President.

    Which is why the Chief Justice isn’t presiding over the trial.

    You got that right.

    • #4
  5. Barry Jones Thatcher
    Barry Jones
    @BarryJones

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, eg, that THE President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty REMOVAL from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is REMOVED from office.

    That is NOT the plain text of the US Constitution.

    This is Article I Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    The only reference to the President is that the Supreme Court Justice shall preside over a Presidential impeachment trial, and it does NOT say that disqualification can only ever be imposed if someone has been removed from office. Nowhere in the constitution does it state plainly that only federal government officials can be impeached. According to the plain text of the US constitution, the House can impeach and the Senate can convict anybody on the planet. The only way to interpret the text otherwise is to rely on emanations and penumbras.

    On the other hand: One can argue that it says removal from office and disqualification, not removal from office or disqualification. It’s a fair quibble, but still entirely arguable one way or the other.

    IMHO.

    I’m not a lawyer…

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    • #5
  6. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, eg, that THE President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty REMOVAL from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is REMOVED from office.

    That is NOT the plain text of the US Constitution.

    This is Article I Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    The only reference to the President is that the Supreme Court Justice shall preside over a Presidential impeachment trial, and it does NOT say that disqualification can only ever be imposed if someone has been removed from office. Nowhere in the constitution does it state plainly that only federal government officials can be impeached. According to the plain text of the US constitution, the House can impeach and the Senate can convict anybody on the planet. The only way to interpret the text otherwise is to rely on emanations and penumbras.

    On the other hand: One can argue that it says removal from office and disqualification, not removal from office or disqualification. It’s a fair quibble, but still entirely arguable one way or the other.

    IMHO.

    I’m not a lawyer…

    <img class=”size-medium wp-image-591789 alignnone lazyloaded” src=”https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/holiday-inn-express-300×225.png” alt=”” width=”300″ height=”225″ /><img class=”size-medium wp-image-591789 alignnone” src=”https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/holiday-inn-express-300×225.png” alt=”” width=”300″ height=”225″ />

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    The impeachment took place while Donald Trump was President. The authority to try and convict is in question since he is a private citizen.

    • #6
  7. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    Article I Section 2:

    The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    The argument goes like this: Having the sole Power of Impeachment means that no court can tell the House of Representatives who it can or cannot impeach.

     

    • #7
  8. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    We have no rule of law in this country.  Just the execution of power.  The Democrats have all the power.  They can do what they please, as they please, when they please, and execute any penalties they please.  The rest is just political theater.

    • #8
  9. Barry Jones Thatcher
    Barry Jones
    @BarryJones

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    Article I Section 2:

    The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    The argument goes like this: Having the sole Power of Impeachment means that no court can tell the House of Representatives who it can or cannot impeach.

    So the Congress can impeach and try any Citizen?

    • #9
  10. Barry Jones Thatcher
    Barry Jones
    @BarryJones

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, eg, that THE President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty REMOVAL from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is REMOVED from office.

    That is NOT the plain text of the US Constitution.

    This is Article I Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    The only reference to the President is that the Supreme Court Justice shall preside over a Presidential impeachment trial, and it does NOT say that disqualification can only ever be imposed if someone has been removed from office. Nowhere in the constitution does it state plainly that only federal government officials can be impeached. According to the plain text of the US constitution, the House can impeach and the Senate can convict anybody on the planet. The only way to interpret the text otherwise is to rely on emanations and penumbras.

    On the other hand: One can argue that it says removal from office and disqualification, not removal from office or disqualification. It’s a fair quibble, but still entirely arguable one way or the other.

    IMHO.

    I’m not a lawyer…

    <img class=”size-medium wp-image-591789 alignnone lazyloaded” src=”https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/holiday-inn-express-300×225.png” alt=”” width=”300″ height=”225″ /><img class=”size-medium wp-image-591789 alignnone” src=”https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/holiday-inn-express-300×225.png” alt=”” width=”300″ height=”225″ />

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    The impeachment took place while Donald Trump was President. The authority to try and convict is in question since he is a private citizen.

    I tend to lump the Impeachment and the trial together as there is a functional similarity in this case…

    • #10
  11. colleenb Member
    colleenb
    @colleenb

    Excellent summary Nanocelt. I too felt that McCarthy could not back his arguments while Epstein did provide excellent reasoning for his views.

    • #11
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    Article I Section 2:

    The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    The argument goes like this: Having the solePower of Impeachment means that no court can tell the House of Representatives who it can or cannot impeach.

    So the Congress can impeach and try any Citizen? 

    Yes, I suppose.  But impeach him for what?  Political speech?  And try him for what?  A non-crime?

    • #12
  13. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):
    Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    I’m no lawyer either, although I have fathered one of the rascals.

    This excerpt is plain.  The punishment for a successful impeachment is removal from office and inability to serve the government again.  Therefore one MUST be in office to be impeached.

    Which leaves me puzzled about Alcee Hastings.  His impeachment from a judgeship should disqualify him to be in the House.  Article 1 gives the House control over its own membership.  Why did the House republicans not contest his seating when they held the majority?  Our side is such a bunch of wimps.

    • #13
  14. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Why, at this point, does anybody pay attention to what Andrew McCarthy says?

    • #14
  15. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Barry Jones (View Comment):

    So if they are not impeaching the President, they must be impeaching a private citizen? Where does the Congress have the authority to impeach a private citizen?

    Article I Section 2:

    The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    The argument goes like this: Having the sole Power of Impeachment means that no court can tell the House of Representatives who it can or cannot impeach.

    So the Congress can impeach and try any Citizen?

    Any human on Earth according to the plain text of the document, but that assumes the Supreme Court wouldn’t rule that the “emanations and penumbra” of the constitution say otherwise.

    • #15
  16. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: Andrew McCarthy tries to defend the indefensible while admitting that it is indefensible. Thinks it should be done anyway?

    I’m not going to get into a big argument about it, but Mark Levin says that Andy McCarthy really boxed himself intellectually  by writing his last book.

    • #16
  17. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Barry Jones (View Comment):
    I tend to lump the Impeachment and the trial together as there is a functional similarity in this case…

    That’s not how the plain text of the US Constitution puts it.  The impeachment and the trial are kept separate, presumably for a reason.

    • #17
  18. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    To my surprise, Senator Ted Cruz in the Verdict podcast concludes that the Senate has the power to try the impeachment, but the Senate not required to conduct a trial. Sen. Cruz says the Senate should not have conducted the trial for prudential reasons. 

    • #18
  19. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian: None of these gentlemen, however, except Richard, seems capable of simply acknowledging the plain text of the US Constitution, eg, that THE President is to be tried by the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding with the only penalty REMOVAL from office, with the option to bar the convicted of holding future office if the President is REMOVED from office.

    That is NOT the plain text of the US Constitution.

    This is Article I Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    The only reference to the President is that the Supreme Court Justice shall preside over a Presidential impeachment trial, and it does NOT say that disqualification can only ever be imposed if someone has been removed from office. Nowhere in the constitution does it state plainly that only federal government officials can be impeached. According to the plain text of the US constitution, the House can impeach and the Senate can convict anybody on the planet. The only way to interpret the text otherwise is to rely on emanations and penumbras.

    IMHO.

    I’m not a lawyer…

    <img class=”size-medium wp-image-591789 alignnone” src=”https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/holiday-inn-express-300×225.png” alt=”” width=”300″ height=”225″ />

    Consider the most basic of basics:  Impeachment is a charge by a legislative body, the sole reason for which is removal of an official from office. That is what Impeachment means. That is what it is for. There is no other way to construe Impeachment. That in the past Impeachment has been misused, abused, exploited, misapplied, and corrupted (including, most viciously and egregiously by that Conservative Saint, Edmund Burke) is not sufficient reason for us to abuse ourselves with such balderdash.  To construe Impeachment as something other than a process for removal from office of a public official is to do violence to language, reason, law, and the public weal. 

    The Constitution makes no sense regarding Impeachment unless the basic meaning of Impeachment is grasped. Then the plain language of the Constitution DOES require that the Senate try the sitting President, with the Chief Justice presiding, in order to convict or acquit and remove from office or not, and bar from further office or not. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. The US Senate notwithstanding.

     

    • #19
  20. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):
    Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    I’m no lawyer either, although I have fathered one of the rascals.

    This excerpt is plain. The punishment for a successful impeachment is removal from office and inability to serve the government again. Therefore one MUST be in office to be impeached.

    Which leaves me puzzled about Alcee Hastings. His impeachment from a judgeship should disqualify him to be in the House. Article 1 gives the House control over its own membership. Why did the House republicans not contest his seating when they held the majority? Our side is such a bunch of wimps.

    Alcee Hasting’s trial in the Senate was conducted by none other than Arlen Specter. Both the House and the Senate were controlled by Democrats at the time. Specter did not advocate that Hastings be barred from holding further office, and he wasn’t. Hastings was tried on charges of accepting bribes and was acquited because his collaborator refused to testify. Guilty as sin; free as a bird. And the longest serving member of Florida’s Congressional delegation. Known for paying more money to family members (including a girlfriend) as his staff than any other Congressperson. Corruption, thy name is Congress.

    • #20
  21. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Toomey is not seeking re-election in 2022

     

    • #21
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