In an Age of Increasing Authoritarianism, What Becomes Tolerable or Even Morally Necessary?

 

Ace of Spades posted a question (which I can’t find anymore) in relation to Disney canceling Gina Carano.

Increasingly Pressing Question: Does Piracy Become Not Only Tolerable, But Morally Necessary, In An Age of Nazi Media Companies?

That’s a worthy topic to be sure, but the thought that forced it’s way to the front of my brain after reading that is this: Han Solo was only likable and acceptable to good people because he was a smuggler and rogue in context of an evil regime. If he were the same rogue smuggler during the time of the Republic then he would have been just a selfish criminal. The pervasive evil of the totalitarian Empire made his life an acceptable and in some sense even admirable endeavor, a declaration of individualism and free will in the face of evil and oppression. In 1977 we all understood that implicitly, as the Soviet Union was quite real and a constant reminder of precisely the kind of totalitarian evil represented by the Empire. We didn’t need backstory for either the Empire or for Han Solo to know that it was ok to like Han Solo and to hate the Empire.

This is why the sequels ruined Han Solo. Once the Empire was destroyed, Solo returned to the black market of piracy and smuggling (and all that goes with it presumably). How could Solo return to such a shiftless and parasitic life absent the evil regime? How could he destroy his family? His replay of his old life wasn’t admirable or even excusable anymore. Now it was just a catastrophic and almost total failure of character. Was he always a low character? If the answer is yes then that seems to erase the original movies where he obviously had good character where and when it really counted; if the answer is no then how could anyone think it a reasonable development that Solo would not only return to that life but reject his found and earned good life?

I suppose it’s just another dead canary in the American coalmine of the 21st century. Only a culture that doesn’t understand what made Han Solo a beloved character to begin with or doesn’t understand why the sequels ruined Han Solo could cancel Gina Carano from a supposedly quality Star Wars product in a most totalitarian and fascistic way and feel righteous in doing it.

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  1. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    So now that we all have a better idea of what we’re talking about, and looking past any loaded ideas that come along with “nazi”, what of the basic ideas themselves?

    • #31
  2. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Is the issue with using the term “Nazi” for anything other than actual Nazis? As if Nazi-as-metaphor is somehow offensive and minimizes the Holocaust?

    Yes.

    What if we are specifically thinking of the Nazi tactics employed during the early 1930s, as opposed to the culmination of their depravity during World War 2? The political nature of the targets may resemble Stalinist/Maoist pogroms more than Nazi pogroms (though the latter had those as well), but the details of the persecution seems more reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the latter stages of the Weimar Republic (as the Nazis had yet to gain absolute power, were at least in some sense allied with corporate interests, and had less time to indoctrinate and/or break the populace)?

    Okay, a better comparison IMHO. But I still disagree. Jews were a small, vulnerable, easily distinguishable minority in Germany. We’re half the country and we’re all over the place. Maybe if the Left was blaming all of America’s problems on the Mormons, the Amish–or the Jews!–it would be a closer match. 

    None of this justifies cancel culture. 

    • #32
  3. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    find me another historical example where one group of people systematically “unpersoned” another group of people to the point where the average citizen saw nothing wrong with rounding them up and destroying them.

    There was Rwanda, but that’s little known or remembered nowadays, and it was also more sudden, taking place in a very short period of time, in a relatively undeveloped country.  Germany in the early 1930s has parallels, among other reasons, because of the gradualism and remnants of political, cultural, and economic pluralism that were in place while it was happening, which contributed to people refusing to believe what would eventually happen could happen.

     

    • #33
  4. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Is the issue with using the term “Nazi” for anything other than actual Nazis? As if Nazi-as-metaphor is somehow offensive and minimizes the Holocaust?

    Yes.

    What if we are specifically thinking of the Nazi tactics employed during the early 1930s, as opposed to the culmination of their depravity during World War 2? The political nature of the targets may resemble Stalinist/Maoist pogroms more than Nazi pogroms (though the latter had those as well), but the details of the persecution seems more reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the latter stages of the Weimar Republic (as the Nazis had yet to gain absolute power, were at least in some sense allied with corporate interests, and had less time to indoctrinate and/or break the populace)?

    I was thinking the same thing. Same in Italy and Mussolini. Same with Star Wars prequels and the trade federation or whatever dupes exist in that fictional universe. 

    If we figure out that we’re the dupes or the targets before the panzers are rolling and before the ovens are built, what is legitimate for us to do in response or even proactively? I know I’ve often thought about how I would react back then in that place if I were on the chopping block; mostly I come to the conclusion that I would have resisted accepting the unthinkable until resistance was physically impossible and it was too late. I also think that if any of those people had known what was coming (as opposed to merely suspecting it) then obviously it would have been legitimate to resist strenuously and violently as preventative measures. 

    The problem is that we’re only human and we don’t know what’s coming. We do have some tried and legitimate measures. The constitution, subsidiarity, natural law and natural rights, and ultimately an armed populace with the God given right to secure their own God given rights by dissolving and instituting government as needed. I fear (hopefully overwrought but I don’t think so) that constitution and subsidiarity are failing rapidly. It’s worth contemplating moral responses to that and trying to map out major inflection points. 

    • #34
  5. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Is the issue with using the term “Nazi” for anything other than actual Nazis? As if Nazi-as-metaphor is somehow offensive and minimizes the Holocaust?

    Yes.

    What if we are specifically thinking of the Nazi tactics employed during the early 1930s, as opposed to the culmination of their depravity during World War 2? The political nature of the targets may resemble Stalinist/Maoist pogroms more than Nazi pogroms (though the latter had those as well), but the details of the persecution seems more reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the latter stages of the Weimar Republic (as the Nazis had yet to gain absolute power, were at least in some sense allied with corporate interests, and had less time to indoctrinate and/or break the populace)?

    Okay, a better comparison IMHO. But I still disagree. Jews were a small, vulnerable, easily distinguishable minority in Germany. We’re half the country and we’re all over the place. Maybe if the Left was blaming all of America’s problems on the Mormons, the Amish–or the Jews!–it would be a closer match.

    None of this justifies cancel culture.

    Six million may be distinguishable but it isn’t small. What was that, 10% of the population? More? Then of course there is the orders of magnitude larger than than targeted by the Soviets and the Chinese. And the Japanese too.

    Plus, with Big Tech “we” certainly are easily distinguishable now based on our tech footprints which are easily gathered and analyzed. The Left blames everyone on the right as if we were literal nazis. That’s how they justify themselves and think they’re righteous in their authoritarianism, propaganda, and censorship. They think they’re being moral! Excess in service of virtue is no vice; you need to break a few eggs to make an omelette; and all that.

    • #35
  6. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    I was about to say that Trump broke the left, but I don’t think that’s true. The left has always been broken. Trump just hardened their resolve to do what they think needs to be done. 

    • #36
  7. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Is the issue with using the term “Nazi” for anything other than actual Nazis? As if Nazi-as-metaphor is somehow offensive and minimizes the Holocaust?

    Yes.

    What if we are specifically thinking of the Nazi tactics employed during the early 1930s, as opposed to the culmination of their depravity during World War 2? The political nature of the targets may resemble Stalinist/Maoist pogroms more than Nazi pogroms (though the latter had those as well), but the details of the persecution seems more reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the latter stages of the Weimar Republic (as the Nazis had yet to gain absolute power, were at least in some sense allied with corporate interests, and had less time to indoctrinate and/or break the populace)?

    Okay, a better comparison IMHO. But I still disagree. Jews were a small, vulnerable, easily distinguishable minority in Germany. We’re half the country and we’re all over the place. Maybe if the Left was blaming all of America’s problems on the Mormons, the Amish–or the Jews!–it would be a closer match.

    None of this justifies cancel culture.

    Six million may be distinguishable but it isn’t small.

    I don’t remember the statistics, but I think that the majority of those six million were from Poland, Ukraine, etc (the former ‘Pale of Settlement”), and many of the Jews from Germany were able to flee (and many of those had unfortunately fled to the previously mentioned areas, as most Western countries tried to drastically restrict Jewish immigration, including us)….the point is the relevant number is the percentage of the German population that was Jewish in the early 30s, at least so far as my comparison was concerned.  Of course, there were other targets (and there were also ethnic components to targeted populations in Stalinist Russia) that complicates potential comparisons and rebuttals all around.

     

    • #37
  8. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Ricochet cannot be used to advocate for illegal activities, and I am pretty at least some of our sponsors would be annoyed by promotion of piracy.  So please do not do that.  Because I don’t want to have to redact it.

    That said, I do not see anything immoral about harming Disney etc financially.  Sorry, @garymcvey I imagine you have friends still working in woke media, but they would probably laugh at any of us getting cancelled and ruined.

     

     

     

     

    • #38
  9. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    It is not morally necessary to torrent Star Wars products. 

     

    • #39
  10. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Ricochet cannot be used to advocate for illegal activities, and I am pretty at least some of our sponsors would be annoyed by promotion of piracy. So please do not do that. Because I don’t want to have to redact it.

    That said, I do not see anything immoral about harming Disney etc financially. Sorry, @ garymcvey I imagine you have friends still working in woke media, but they would probably laugh at any of us getting cancelled and ruined.

    I’m not advocating piracy. The title was a jumping off of point to discuss other things, including how Disney ruined Han Solo and also to discuss where we are right now in our culture and what kinds of actions are appropriate.

    • #40
  11. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    It is not morally necessary to torrent Star Wars products.

    I’m not suggesting that it is.  However, does it become morally necessary to not purchase Star Wars products if it’s creators are pushing us to cultural and political ruin? At what point?

    If politics is downstream from culture then how do we respond to an evil fascistic current taking us to ruin?

    • #41
  12. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    I guess your subject header caused all kinds of confusion. Sorry that happened. And if I found the post at Ace that you’re referencing, it only makes a brief reference to the notion, but is otherwise all about The Firing.

    But if we’re talking about Lucasfilm deconstructing their heroes, they did the same thing to Luke as they did to Han — making the hero’s journey of the original trilogy a journey back to isolation, uselessness, and despair.

    • #42
  13. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    I guess your subject header caused all kinds of confusion. Sorry that happened. And if I found the post at Ace that you’re referencing, it only makes a brief reference to the notion, but is otherwise all about The Firing.

    But if we’re talking about Lucasfilm deconstructing their heroes, they did the same thing to Luke as they did to Han — making the hero’s journey of the original trilogy a journey back to isolation, uselessness, and despair.

    Yeah that’s true. I’m not a good enough writer to carry off what was in my head so that everyone else followed along too.

    • #43
  14. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    But if we’re talking about Lucasfilm deconstructing their heroes, they did the same thing to Luke as they did to Han — making the hero’s journey of the original trilogy a journey back to isolation, uselessness, and despair.

    Absolutely. The prequels killed Star Wars as a compelling universe, and the sequels made sure to kill whatever value or good that came from the originals, including these beloved characters. 

    • #44
  15. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    And no hero’s journey at all for Rey. None of the hero’s journey milestones are present. The closest the sequel trilogy comes to presenting a hero’s journey is with Finn. But they absolutely sidelined him.

    • #45
  16. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    I updated the post title and the first sentence. Does that help? I think it will but I’m an accountant not a writer.

    • #46
  17. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Stad (View Comment):

    Because the Star Wars universe set up a noble ending in the first three movies (Episodes 4-6). Thus it was necessary to deconstruct everything good that happened with Episodes 1-3 revealing the force was nothing more than an energy field that interacted with genetic matter. I haven’t seen the last episodes, but I imagine the noblity of the characters had to be taken down several notches . . .

    Ah, Critical Star Wars Theory. 

    • #47
  18. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    So, as to the question of the subject header, are you saying that we should all cancel Disney+, but find a piratey source to continue watching the shows we like?

    No. No I am not. Ace is saying that, indirectly. We’re still technically in the Old Republic era.

    Our jedi council is also having a hard time seeing what is happening and is also infected with some goofy balance philosophy along with lethargic apathy. Some are actually just sith in hiding. For now.

    I agree with Ace; though frankly, I have little interest in watching anything Star Wars at this point.

    The practical, self-interested reason to oppose ‘piracy’ is that it bankrupts entertainment sources you desire to stay in business, which is no longer the case when the media companies in question ruin or abandon their own IPs just to spite their prospective customers. Moral considerations against the practice are null and void when media companies collude to restrict and repress non-SJW competition. Outside of jailtime and fines (which have all but fallen into disuse for this sort of thing, though the Democrats seem intent on reviving them), there’s really no reason not to, anymore.

    I think Disney hits pretty hard on any copyright infringement. I would not attempt any piracy of their products. 

    I guess these days they might look at a Twitter feed to see whom to prosecute. 

    • #48
  19. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Perhaps nazi is too freighted. How about Soviet? Khmer Rouge? Fascist? CCP? Jacobin? Inquisition? McCarthyite? Generic authoritarian?

    Go ahead, pick one. Yeah, Nazi is too freighted. I thought this was something we understood, since the word is so often thrown at us.

    Isn’t this precisely why the right should throw it right back in their face?

    Four years of “literally” Hitler, and the left has actually conjured up the exact narrative they have been tossing at the right?

    The left’s projection is so obvious, and their narrative is a chilling amalgamation of historical purges.

    It is foolish to let their lies pass without correcting the record. 

    If only to teach a bit of actual history.

     

    • #49
  20. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Perhaps nazi is too freighted. How about Soviet? Khmer Rouge? Fascist? CCP? Jacobin? Inquisition? McCarthyite? Generic authoritarian?

    Go ahead, pick one. Yeah, Nazi is too freighted. I thought this was something we understood, since the word is so often thrown at us.

    Isn’t this precisely why the right should throw it right back in their face?

    Four years of “literally” Hitler, and the left has actually conjured up the exact narrative they have been tossing at the right?

    The left’s projection is so obvious, and their narrative is a chilling amalgamation of historical purges.

    It is foolish to let their lies pass without correcting the record.

    If only to teach a bit of actual history.

    Yes! Thinking back to all of the thrilling occasions for optimism over the last 10-15 years (as temporary as some of them were) they all came from throwing it back in their faces, from not accepting the premises, and from fighting back. Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Chris Christie, Andrew Breitbart, the gamer gate folks, and President Trump. Letting it go hasn’t earned us points; those suburban soccer moms won’t like us anyway. That’s been the trend since the 90’s.

    • #50
  21. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Here’s a different take on the same question: Is it morally right to charge a second time for government subsidized entertainment that competes with product made in the private sector? 

    Should HBO subscribers be able to have access to Sesame Street before the taxpayers that fund it through public television? Should the BBC be allowed to make millions from selling their products in competition with American producers after their taxpayer are fleeced with a television tax?

    • #51
  22. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Ed G.: Once the Empire was destroyed, Solo returned to the black market of piracy and smuggling (and all that goes with it presumably). How could Solo return to such a shiftless and parasitic life absent the evil regime? How could he destroy his family?

    I assumed the event that destroyed his family was the defection of his son to the Dark Side.

    Imagine someone who joins a gang and deals drugs, gets busted, spends some time in prison.  When he gets out he decides to start over, gets a job, gets married, starts a family.  Then some tragedy strikes and his son is killed, and unable to cope with the grief he leaves his wife and returns to his old life of crime.

    I figure that’s what they were going for with Han — he couldn’t cope, so he reverted to his old way of life.

    • #52
  23. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Stad (View Comment):
    Thus it was necessary to deconstruct everything good that happened with Episodes 1-3 revealing the force was nothing more than an energy field that interacted with genetic matter.

    I don’t think that’s quite what Lucas intended.  His idea was that Midi-chlorians were a microscopic intelligent species that live in some sort of symbiotic relationship with the species they live inside.  In one interview he said that if he had made episodes 7-9 himself, part of the plot would have taken place in this microscopic world, which would have been — interesting.  We’ll never know, since Disney scrapped the whole idea.

    • #53
  24. Roderic Coolidge
    Roderic
    @rhfabian

    Piracy is always wrong, but here’s what I can do: avoid Disney products.  I can do without them.

    • #54
  25. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Ed G.: Once the Empire was destroyed, Solo returned to the black market of piracy and smuggling (and all that goes with it presumably). How could Solo return to such a shiftless and parasitic life absent the evil regime? How could he destroy his family?

    I assumed the event that destroyed his family was the defection of his son to the Dark Side.

    Imagine someone who joins a gang and deals drugs, gets busted, spends some time in prison. When he gets out he decides to start over, gets a job, gets married, starts a family. Then some tragedy strikes and his son is killed, and unable to cope with the grief he leaves his wife and returns to his old life of crime.

    I figure that’s what they were going for with Han — he couldn’t cope, so he reverted to his old way of life.

    Perhaps, but that’s what I mean about ruining Han Solo. First, his old way of life didn’t exist anymore because the empire didn’t exist. Second, Han Solo never struck me as a “couldn’t cope” kind of guy. Third, returning to his old self is different now without the empire – it has a different character and context. Fourth, there are more understandable outlets that are keeping with his underlying character without losing any of his admirable developments.

    • #55
  26. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Broadly speaking, the writers of the sequel trilogy didn’t understand the very basics of plot structure, which is necessarily an outgrowth of character. That’s been a problem since the prequel trilogy, though. Characterization is sidelined for the sake of cool set pieces and action sequences. But if you have no connection with the characters, then nobody’s really going to care about the rest. The flat characters of the sequel trilogy are put on center stage, but note it’s Han’s story that has us talking. Wouldn’t it be great if they created characters for the sequel trilogy who also had us talking? But there’s nothing to them.

    • #56
  27. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Piracy is always wrong, but here’s what I can do: avoid Disney products. I can do without them.

    You can do better without them. 

    😉

    • #57
  28. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    While I disapprove of Gina Carano’s cancellation. I think this is a minor incident in the moral cesspool of Disney. They filmed a movie a stone’s throw from concentration camps in China – and then thanked the Chinese government for allowing them there. Disney’s entire relationship with China should make any thoughtful person queasy.

    The entire foreign policy goals in Asia for the past 50 years have been a total failure. Open up to China they said, We’ll import cheap goods (made with slave/prison labour) and we’ll export our values. It turns out China has also been exporting its values, companies fearful of being locked out of China collaborate with China’s security severices and propaganda efforts to further their agenda here, and block ours there… This is a train wreck dumpster fire of policy failure.

    • #58
  29. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    It is not morally necessary to torrent Star Wars products.

     

    It is if you want the original non-special edition version of the original trilogy.

    ;-)

    • #59
  30. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    It is not morally necessary to torrent Star Wars products.

     

    It is if you want the original non-special edition version of the original trilogy.

    ;-)

    In high-def? Because I have that on DVD.

    • #60
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