45 of 50 Senate Republicans Oppose Trump Trial

 

The Hill is reporting that 45 of 50 Republicans in the US Senate voted in favor of a motion made by Sen. Rand Paul contending that the proposed impeachment trial of former President Trump is unconstitutional.  Story here.  All 50 Senate Democrats voted against the motion.

The five dissenting Republicans are:

  • Mitt Romney (UT)
  • Ben Sasse (NE)
  • Susan Collins (ME)
  • Lisa Murkowski (AK)
  • Pat Toomey (PA)

This is a very strong indication that there are insufficient votes in the Senate to convict the former President.

Note that the vote on this issue does not indicate that the five Senators listed above will necessarily vote to convict, if the Senate leadership proceeds with the trial.

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  1. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    Well, you know what they say about a fool and his money.

    My suggestion: give a lot more to Liz Cheney. Her constituents are so cheesed off at her that she has become a fit receptacle for creamed chipped beef. She needs your money. And supporting her will fit your philosophy of losing nobly.

    I have given Liz Cheney the most money of the Brave 10.  Thanks.

    • #31
  2. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    OK, I have a question for y’all.  I just have a seriously devious mind.

    Would it be unethical for me to post false information about Republican Senators and Representatives, incorrectly representing that pro-Trump guys voted in an anti-Trump way, in order to trick Gary into making contributions to their campaign?

    • #32
  3. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    OK, I have a question for y’all. I just have a seriously devious mind.

    Would it be unethical for me to post false information about Republican Senators and Representatives, incorrectly representing that pro-Trump guys voted in an anti-Trump way, in order to trick Gary into making contributions to their campaign?

    I would likely check it out first.  I gave only to the Senators after confirming that they had voted against Rand Paul’s motion.

    • #33
  4. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    On what grounds do you support impeachment, Gary?

    1. Obstruction of Justice for the Muller Investigation
    2. Attempted bribery of Ukraine’s President to open a bogus investigation.
    3. Trump’s request that the Georgia Secretary of State “find” 10,780 votes.
    4. Trump’s incitement of the riot.
    5. Trump’s failure to immediately do everything he could do to stop the riot.

    Maybe you didn’t understand the question.  On what grounds do you support this particular impeachment?  Numbers 4 and 5?

    • #34
  5. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    Well, you know what they say about a fool and his money.

    My suggestion: give a lot more to Liz Cheney. Her constituents are so cheesed off at her that she has become a fit receptacle for creamed chipped beef. She needs your money. And supporting her will fit your philosophy of losing nobly.

    I have given Liz Cheney the most money of the Brave 10. Thanks.

    Good. She needs more. Send her some more.

    • #35
  6. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Ask me or anyone if that’s incitement. No Democrat will ask whether Cory Booker incited violence when he called for his supporters to “get up in their face” of Congresspeople, a very visual and specific incitement. No Democrat will ask whether Maxine Waters incited violence when she literally told her supporters, and I quote, “that if you see a member of the Trump administration at a restaurant, at a department store, at a gas station or any place, you create a crowd and you push back on them.” Is that not incitement?

    Whataboutism.

    My wife and I were pushed and surrounded and screamed at by the same time of mob that Maxine likes to inspire. It’s terrifying to have a swarm of people threatening to kill you, cursing you and literally holding you hostage until police come to your rescue. That night we were assaulted by the crowd, I wasn’t sure we would survive even with the police protection.

    I am pleased that Rand Paul’s neighbor is being prosecuted. More must be done to protect members of Congress.

    But no Democrat has ever considered impeaching Maxine for her violent rhetoric; in fact, Republicans, to our credit, have never once thought it legitimate to formally censure or impeach these Democrats. No Republican has sought to use the government to hold these Democrats responsible for Antifa and Black Lives Matter violence that has consumed our cities all summer, resulting in over a billion dollars of destruction, looting, and property damage. Not one Republican said, “Oh, let’s impeach the Democrats who are inciting this” because it would be ridiculous.

    Whataboutism.

    Many on the Democrats’ side of the aisle cheered them on; Kamala Harris famously offered to “pay the bill” for those who were arrested. I wonder if she’ll be brought up on charges of inciting violence for that now that she’s vice-president. Should Kamala Harris be impeached for offering to pay for violent people to get out of jail who’ve been burning our cities down?

    No. And no Republican has offered that. Because we’re not going the road that Democrats have decided, this low road of impeaching people for political speech. Should Republicans impeach the Democrat mayor of Seattle, who incited and condoned violence by calling the armed takeover of part of her city a “summer of love.” Any Republicans try to impeach her?

    On June 8, the New York Post, citing U.S Justice Department statistics, reported that more than 700 law enforcement officers were injured during the Antifa/Black Lives matter riots. There were at least 19 murders, including 77-year-old retired police officer David Dorn. Yet Democrats insist on applying a test of incitement top a Republican that they refuse to apply to themselves.

    Whataboutism.

    Ok, but is the argument solid?  If so, then we should impeach those Dems too.  Do you support impeachment of Kamala?

    • #36
  7. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    On what grounds do you support impeachment, Gary?

    1. Obstruction of Justice for the Muller Investigation
    2. Attempted bribery of Ukraine’s President to open a bogus investigation.
    3. Trump’s request that the Georgia Secretary of State “find” 10,780 votes.
    4. Trump’s incitement of the riot.
    5. Trump’s failure to immediately do everything he could do to stop the riot.

    Maybe you didn’t understand the question. On what grounds do you support this particular impeachment? Numbers 4 and 5?

    Yes 4 & 5.  But I also think that #3 is part of the Trump Big Lie that lead to the insurrection.  

    • #37
  8. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    You didn’t really.

    • #38
  9. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Whataboutism.

    Whataboutism.

    Whataboutism

    A made-up word deployed to deflect from the very accurate charges of hypocrisy.

     

    • #39
  10. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    LOL.

    You are free to contribute to anyone you wish. This is a battle over the soul of the Republic and the Republican Party.

    As of now, you have 5 out of 50 and 10 out of 200+. You could make a third party run with that.

    • #40
  11. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    On what grounds do you support impeachment, Gary?

    1. Obstruction of Justice for the Muller Investigation
    2. Attempted bribery of Ukraine’s President to open a bogus investigation.
    3. Trump’s request that the Georgia Secretary of State “find” 10,780 votes.
    4. Trump’s incitement of the riot.
    5. Trump’s failure to immediately do everything he could do to stop the riot.

    Maybe you didn’t understand the question. On what grounds do you support this particular impeachment? Numbers 4 and 5?

    Yes 4 & 5. But I also think that #3 is part of the Trump Big Lie that lead to the insurrection.

    Well, thanks for answering the question.  Maybe you should go back and answer the other one now–can you beat Epstein’s argument?

    But as for this question, I don’t know what else we can do.  I know no facts relevant to # 5, other than vague recollections that Trump called out the National Guard that day, that he asked everyone to go home quietly, and that the Democrats had prevented an adequate police presence.

    On # 4, it appears that you do not know the relevant facts.  I presume you agree with War Machine.  I, again, cite Hulk on the subject. Please consider following the example of Ant Man and being willing to learn something.

    I reiterate that I’d be ok with an impeachment based on facts and consistent standards–assuming it’s also legal.

    I reiterate that in my view Trump may well burn in hell for his adulteries, lies, Twitter barbarism, and irresponsibility on the national debt.  I just prefer to criticize fairly, that’s all.

    • #41
  12. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    You didn’t really.

    • #42
  13. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):I’m not sure whether the various Senators evaluated the textual argument carefully. It is not completely clear, in my view, though I ultimately come down on the side holding that the impeachment and conviction of an ex-official is unconstitutional.

    I found Richard Epstein’s textual argument on this point to be particularly convincing (here). If called upon to actually decide the issue, I’d like to read some opposing opinions.Next Monday 2/8 at 1PM PT, Uncommon Knowledge with Peter Robinson (also known as “my other job”)  will be hosting a debate with Richard, John Yoo, and Andy McCarthy (as noted above, Andy is pro-impeachment) and for the first time, you can watch us record the show live on Zoom (not sure about a Q&A session yet, but we’ll try).

    We’ll be posting details about the show tomorrow. Should be fun.

    • #43
  14. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    Which of those five will be the Republican nominee in 2024? Or will it be Jeb?

    • #44
  15. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Dotorimuk (View Comment):

    Which of those five will be the Republican nominee in 2024? Or will it be Jeb?

    All will be primaried.

    • #45
  16. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Dotorimuk (View Comment):

    Which of those five will be the Republican nominee in 2024? Or will it be Jeb?

    There is Romney spawn running the Republican National Committee.  This is not a good thing.

    • #46
  17. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Dotorimuk (View Comment):

    Which of those five will be the Republican nominee in 2024? Or will it be Jeb?

    All will be primaried.

    My feeling is Liz Cheney hopes to be the Kamala Harris of 2024. You know – run for President, be the first one to drop out of the primary race, not win a single delegate and get the VEEP slot because she punches woke points and not because of her capabilities (or rather lack of them).

    • #47
  18. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Moderator Note:

    Can we please try to stick with the facts and avoid personal attacks?

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    This thread started out so well.

    [redacted]

    • #48
  19. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    I think it’s fine to give them all a primary challenge except Collins Snow.  She’s a swing seat and is always straddling the fence, and should have more leeway.  A right winger won’t keep Collins’ Snow’s seat in Maine.  If the others survive their primary challenge, fine.  Sasse is wrong here, but he’s got one of the most conservative voting records.  But it’s a safe seat, so if he goes down to someone further right I’m fine with it.  Same with Romney.  I’ll be happy if Toomey and murkowski are gone.

    • #49
  20. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    I am really disappointed about Sasse, who is otherwise extremely solid. I have a very difficult time understanding his reasoning.

    Sasse is a D-bag and a blowhard.  His votes are generally OK, but his words support the Corporate Fascist takeover of America.  I am sure his bloviations lectures are a hit on the D.C. cocktail party circuit. 

    • #50
  21. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Dotorimuk (View Comment):

    Which of those five will be the Republican nominee in 2024? Or will it be Jeb?

    All will be primaried.

    My feeling is Liz Cheney hopes to be the Kamala Harris of 2024. You know – run for President, be the first one to drop out of the primary race, not win a single delegate and get the VEEP slot because she punches woke points and not because of her capabilities (or rather lack of them).

    I’m fine in general with Cheney but she’s wrong here. It’s an important issue, so she needs to be removed from her leadership position based on that vote- it’s not a minor disagreement.  She should also take a primary challenge, and if she survives because her voters like her then fine, either way it’s a safe seat so I won’t be sad if a more conservative person gets it.

    I think there is something to be said for voting your conscience though.  I don’t think lawmakers should be bound to simply what their voters want, always voting whichever way the wind blows.  I prefer voting for someone who is going to make a hard choice and say no occasionally.   And if I don’t like the way they voted, I’ll vote for someone else next time.  If Liz survives her challenge fine.  If not, fine.

    • #51
  22. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):

    I think it’s fine to give them all a primary challenge except Snow. She’s a swing seat and is always straddling the fence, and should have more leeway. A right winger won’t keep Snow’s seat in Maine. If the others survive their primary challenge, fine. Sasse is wrong here, but he’s got one of the most conservative voting records. But it’s a safe seat, so if he goes down to someone further right I’m fine with it. Same with Romney. I’ll be happy if Toomey and murkowski are gone.

    I assume you mean Susan Collins, not Snow. Collins won re-election this past year. Assuming she stays healthy, she won’t have to run until 2026. Who knows how things will have shaken out by then?

    • #52
  23. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    I am really disappointed about Sasse, who is otherwise extremely solid. I have a very difficult time understanding his reasoning.

    I’m less convinced that Sen. Sasse is extremely solid, at least on rhetoric. I haven’t checked his voting record.

     

    His speech during the ACB hearings was fantastic.  As far as politicians go, he’s pretty good.

    • #53
  24. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Whataboutism.

    Whataboutism.

    Whataboutism

    A made-up word deployed to deflect from the very accurate charges of hypocrisy.

    Yes, and charges of hypocrisy have worked so well in the past.

    More seriously, Gary misses Rand’s point: that the Democrats have set the standard to be used by their past actions. They never believed (nor should they have) that Bernie incited the shooter at the baseball practice. They never believed (nor should they have) that Maxine incited Paul’s neighbor. This is the standard they set. Rand Paul’s objection is in different standard for Republicans.

    • #54
  25. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):

    I think it’s fine to give them all a primary challenge except Snow. She’s a swing seat and is always straddling the fence, and should have more leeway. A right winger won’t keep Snow’s seat in Maine. If the others survive their primary challenge, fine. Sasse is wrong here, but he’s got one of the most conservative voting records. But it’s a safe seat, so if he goes down to someone further right I’m fine with it. Same with Romney. I’ll be happy if Toomey and murkowski are gone.

    I assume you mean Susan Collins, not Snow. Collins won re-election this past year. Assuming she stays healthy, she won’t have to run until 2026. Who knows how things will have shaken out by then?

    I’m sorry, yes.  I’m on my phone at work and half distracted.  

    • #55
  26. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    That is an interesting take, Gary.  I’m not sure that voting with the majority can be considered “brave.”  Did you read Rand Paul’s speech?  I am genuinely interested in what you think about that.

    • #56
  27. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    I am really disappointed about Sasse, who is otherwise extremely solid. I have a very difficult time understanding his reasoning. Paul’s speech was the best thing I’ve read in a very long time. You should consider pasting it into your post in its entirety.

    This impeachment is nothing more than a partisan exercise designed to further divide the country. Democrats claim to want to unify the country, but impeaching a former president, a private citizen, is the antithesis of unity.

    Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. My client is charged with murder. But the victim is already dead. What purpose will it serve to have a trial. Shouldn’t we come together?

    It kind of worries me that you’re a lawyer.

    How about “my client is charged with conspiracy, but my client died last week?”

    Perhaps you are – again, as a lawyer who actually passed a bar examination – also familiar with precedent and how important that is for the rule of law?  Perhaps you are also aware of the concept of “equal protection,” another legal concept.  If your client was convicted by a judge who didn’t like that client’s politics or religion or some other belief, after just having acquitted another individual on the exact same facts (said individual being a member of the Judge’s religion, let’s say), you might rightly raise some concern about the legitimacy of the law in question, and of the Judge in particular.

    The rule of law requires consistent application of that law.  It is “whataboutism” to say that X behavior is justified by someone else having done it first.  Anyone who extends that basic principle of “two wrongs don’t make a right” into a legal setting knows absolutely nothing about how our legal system works.  Any lawyer who makes those sorts of arguments has no business practicing law.

     

     

    • #57
  28. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I have already sent in a campaign contribution today to Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey, I know that Toomey is not running again, and that Collins and Sasse were just re-elected. I wanted to make a point. I also contributed to the Brave 10 members of the House today.

    On what grounds do you support impeachment, Gary?

    1. Obstruction of Justice for the Muller Investigation
    2. Attempted bribery of Ukraine’s President to open a bogus investigation.
    3. Trump’s request that the Georgia Secretary of State “find” 10,780 votes.
    4. Trump’s incitement of the riot.
    5. Trump’s failure to immediately do everything he could do to stop the riot.

    As Rand Paul so eloquently pointed out, you therefore support the impeachment of virtually every sitting democrat and a large number of governors and judges nationwide.  I look forward to hearing about all of the money you plan to donate to those causes, I also look forward to your many articles demanding that we take these steps in order to preserve the very soul of our democracy.  It will be comforting to know that your positions are based on principle, rather than an irrational hatred for one specific individual.  We need more people who are willing to stand on principle, and equally willing to apply their principles across the board.  It may be you, Gary, who saves the soul of this republic – or, in the very least, who provides an example to others.

    Unless I’m wrong about all that, and you’re just a deranged fool who has beclowned yourself and destroyed decades of potential goodwill by embracing flatly contradictory positions out of an irrational hatred.  That’s how people go mad – and those stories generally end in tragedy.

    • #58
  29. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Whataboutism.

    Whataboutism.

    Whataboutism

    A made-up word deployed to deflect from the very accurate charges of hypocrisy.

    Clearly you don’t listen to Charlie Sykes on the Daily Bulwark.

    • #59
  30. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    I am really disappointed about Sasse, who is otherwise extremely solid. I have a very difficult time understanding his reasoning. Paul’s speech was the best thing I’ve read in a very long time. You should consider pasting it into your post in its entirety.

    This impeachment is nothing more than a partisan exercise designed to further divide the country. Democrats claim to want to unify the country, but impeaching a former president, a private citizen, is the antithesis of unity.

    Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. My client is charged with murder. But the victim is already dead. What purpose will it serve to have a trial. Shouldn’t we come together?

    It kind of worries me that you’re a lawyer.

    How about “my client is charged with conspiracy, but my client died last week?”

    Perhaps you are – again, as a lawyer who actually passed a bar examination – also familiar with precedent and how important that is for the rule of law? Perhaps you are also aware of the concept of “equal protection,” another legal concept. If your client was convicted by a judge who didn’t like that client’s politics or religion or some other belief, after just having acquitted another individual on the exact same facts (said individual being a member of the Judge’s religion, let’s say), you might rightly raise some concern about the legitimacy of the law in question, and of the Judge in particular.

    The rule of law requires consistent application of that law. It is “whataboutism” to say that X behavior is justified by someone else having done it first. Anyone who extends that basic principle of “two wrongs don’t make a right” into a legal setting knows absolutely nothing about how our legal system works. Any lawyer who makes those sorts of arguments has no business practicing law.

    I have passed four bar exams, in Arizona in 1976, and thereafter in New Mexico, New Jersey and Washington State.  

    • #60
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