Random Thoughts on Rioting and Impeachment

 

I continue to believe that there is no basis for assigning blame to President Trump for the reprehensible rioting at the Capitol last week. Last Friday, I thought that calls for impeachment were premature, irresponsible, and I went so far as to call them “deranged.” Nothing that I have seen or heard over the past week has changed my mind about this initial conclusion. Indeed, further information has strengthened my position. I do, however, remain willing to consider additional evidence.

I’m going to walk through some important issues, in summary fashion. I’d appreciate your feedback.

I. Propriety of Impeachment

I was surprised by the number of Right-leaning commentators who initially favored impeachment, and asserted that President Trump “incited” the rioting. The two that I respect most, who expressed this opinion, were Andy McCarthy and our own Jon Gabriel.

Here are a few contrary viewpoints that have come out over the past week:

1. Alan Dershowitz, no man of the Right, has a column strongly opposing impeachment (here), contending that the President did not incite violence and that the impeachment is an unconstitutional violation of the free speech rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. Part of his argument is:

Whatever one may think of President Trump’s speech last Wednesday—I personally found it deeply upsetting—one thing is clear: It was fully protected by the First Amendment. Nothing the president said constituted unprotected “incitement,” as narrowly defined by the Supreme Court over nearly a century of decisions. His volatile words plainly fell on the side of political “advocacy,” which is protected speech.

2. Ben Stein’s column titled Goodbye, America is strongly critical of the charges against the President, calling them “The Biggest Lie of the Postwar Era.” Stein has such a way with words. He concludes:

As soon as Mr. Trump heard about the rioting at the Capitol, he urged his supporters to stop and go home.

Nevertheless, the news media and the leftists and the RINOs insisted that Mr. Trump had “incited” his followers to attack the Capitol. To punish him, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Amazon, and every other large internet platform took away Mr. Trump’s email and then shut down the platforms for Parler because it had contributors who had defended Mr. Trump and thus were party to his January 6 “incitement.”

There was no precedent for this shutdown of free speech. Nazis and Muslim terrorists still have use of the internet. Only the president who got more than 70 million votes is shut off.

What’s even worse is this: I have read every word of Mr. Trump’s January 6 speech to his supporters. There is not one single word of “incitement” to lawlessness. In fact, Mr. Trump, explicitly tells his fans to be “peaceful.”

And so, over a clear-cut lie, the powers in media and politics have ended free speech in America. And Joe Biden has not even been sworn in yet. These are terrifying times. Goodbye, America.

3. Victor Davis Hanson, who I’ve been following closely, finally has a column out that strongly opposes the impeachment (here). His prior commentary, at least that I’ve seen, was a bit unambiguous, and he seemed to be reserving judgment. This article calls the impeachment a “farce” and “one of the greatest travesties of modern politics.” He concludes:

So what, then, was this latest impeachment gambit really about? Of course, it was a Parthian shot to discredit supporters of Trump—and perhaps stop Trump from running for president again.

But it was also aimed preemptively at opponents of what will soon be the most left-wing Congress in history—one that in days will try to change the very institutions of American government in ways never tried before.

I’m inclined to agree with these three gentlemen.

II. Further News Reports Regarding Timing and Pre-Planning

The specific details and timeline of the rioting on January 6 remain unclear to me. It does appear that the rioting at the Capitol started before President Trump even concluded his speech.

It is difficult to find reporting of this (I had to resort to DuckDuckGo). This article at the Conservative Review claims that the rioting began 20 minutes before the end of President Trump’s speech. As I understand it, the rally was a fair distance away from the Capitol, but I don’t know precisely how long it would have taken to walk the distance. I cannot vouch, in any way, for the Conservative Review, as I know nothing about this website.

This claim is consistent with a timeline published by USA Today, which reports (if you dig through it):

  • The President started speaking at about 11:50 am.
  • The President spoke for more than an hour.
  • Rioters began grappling with police on the Capitol steps at 1:10 pm.
  • Capitol police ordered the evacuation of nearby buildings (not the Capitol) at 1:26 pm.
  • A Congresswoman tweeted that she was being evacuated after a pipe bomb report at 1:46 pm.
  • Rioters breached the police lines on the west side of the Capitol at 2:11 pm.
  • C-SPAN reported that rioters crossed Statuary Hall at 2:33 pm.
  • At 2:38 pm, the President tweeted: “Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!”
  • At 2:44 pm, “[s]hots are reported fired in the House chamber.” I have heard nothing more about shots inside the chamber. This may be the shooting of rioter Ashli Babbitt, which occurred just outside the House chamber.
  • At 3:13 pm, the President sent a second tweet: “I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you.”
  • The DC National Guard was mobilized at 3:51 pm.
  • At 4:17 pm, the President tweeted a video which, among other things, told people to “go home now” and that “[w]e have to have peace.”

It’s hard to figure out precisely what happened. That’s a very tight timeline.

There are reports (for example, USA Today here), that the FBI issued a “dire warning” on the day before the riot about “violent extremists” planning an “armed uprising in Washington” that was “described as a ‘war’ to coincide with Congress’ certification” of the electoral vote. If true, such pre-planning would further undermine any claim that the President incited the rioting.

III. False-Flag and Antifa

There was a fair amount of speculation that the rioting was instigated, or even entirely conducted, by Antifa or other Leftist agitators. I have seen little evidence of this, though it remains plausible that some such “false-flag” operations occurred.

It is very difficult to reach a conclusion on this issue. Most of the rioters, in the videos that I have seen, looked and sounded like Trump supporters. This appears to be true of poor Ashli Babbitt, the rioting Air Force vet who was shot and killed.

I don’t think that the “false-flag” claims are entirely unsupported. Here is a Fox article about a left-wing activist who has reportedly been charged in federal court, after allegedly having participated in the rioting and made various statements urging others to participate.

IV. Poor Ashli Babbitt

I don’t want to litigate this issue in detail. The death of Ms. Babbitt is a tragedy, but I do not think that it was a crime. It looks like justifiable homicide, to me. This is a preliminary conclusion, as additional details may emerge.

The videos that I’ve seen show a very violent confrontation at the doors of the Speaker’s Lobby, which I understand to be the final doorway that could be defended before the very entry to the House Chamber itself. Ms. Babbitt was reportedly unarmed, but it also plainly wearing a large backpack. The scene was pandemonium, with rioters hammering on and breaking the glass doors and the flanking windows. Ms. Babbitt pushed to the front of the crowd, and tried to climb up through the broken sidelight window on the right. She was shot, reportedly by a Capitol policeman.

I disagree strongly with those who have called this a “murder.” It remains early, and I expect that an investigation is underway. I do think that such lack of support for the police, in difficult circumstances, is a major cause for both the Capitol rioting and the widespread rioting that we saw last year.

V. Republican and Conservative Support for Impeachment

This is difficult to gauge. My impression is that the overwhelming majority of Republicans and Conservatives find no basis for impeachment and no cause for allegations of incitement against President Trump, and find this to be another misleading Leftist narrative being pushed for cynical political purposes. Here are my data points.

First, the vote in the House on impeachment. The Republican vote was 197 nays, 10 ayes. Four were absent, of whom three (at least) have publicly stated their opposition.

Second, the Ricochet “poll” that I posted yesterday (here). Through the first 112 votes, 86% oppose and 12% support.

Third, the public opinion polling on Trump’s job approval. I am even more skeptical of polling than before, and the RCP average of polls shows a precipitous drop, from 44.2% approval on January 5, to 39.7% today. But there are a small number of polls, and I worry about “push polling.”

I generally find Rasmussen to be the best poll. I think that it’s a robocall poll, which perhaps makes it less likely to engage in “push-polling,” and I think that it reports a 3-day moving average. Per Rasmussen (here), there’s been essentially no change in Trump’s job approval. It was 47% on January 5, and is 48% today (January 15), ranging from a low of 46% to a high of 49% in the interim.

This has been a very troubling nine days for me. Thanks for providing a forum for me to share my thoughts. I look forward to your comment.

Wokeistan delenda est.

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  1. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.”  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost.  Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

    • #61
  2. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    • #62
  3. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison.  I remember reading Governor Walker’s book.  I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    • #63
  4. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    “First, they should have included Trump pressuring the Georgia Secretary of State to ‘find 11,870 votes.’” 

    When the other side is still sticking to their obtuse, intellectually dishonest reading of that transcript for their case, I feel much better about sitting where I do on the issue. So I got that going for me…which is nice.

    • #64
  5. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    • #65
  6. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    Absolutely yes.  I was thrilled when the “doctors” who were giving out “notes” to the thugs also got disciplined by their boards.  I wish that all of the thugs had been arrested and charged.  

    • #66
  7. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    He didn’t even condemn the Biden/Harris campaign for bailing out leftist thugs.

    • #67
  8. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    Absolutely yes. I was thrilled when the “doctors” who were giving out “notes” to the thugs also got disciplined by their boards. I wish that all of the thugs had been arrested and charged.

    Links are good.

    • #68
  9. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    Read the transcript of the speech. It is all about overturning the election and pressuring Pence.

    I listened to it, and didn’t hear that his intent was to “overturn” the election, but to obtain a legitimate outcome. 

    • #69
  10. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    He didn’t even condemn the Biden/Harris campaign for bailing out leftist thugs.

    I wasn’t asked by anyone on that issue, but I certainly did not endorse it.  Are you suggesting that if I don’t denounce something then it should be presumed that I support?  That seems a rather soviet notion.  (See the movie, The Death of Stalin.)

    • #70
  11. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Well, this thread unfortunately went down the tubes rather quickly.

    • #71
  12. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

     

     

     

     

    • #72
  13. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I have a question a bit afield from the topic as presented but I think fair for discussion since we have encountered the issue of possible or suggested unlawful interference in the last two Presidential elections. Four years ago there was initiated an unrelenting effort to nullify the elections results or, after he was inaugurated, to remove President Trump based on allegations that he or members of his campaign colluded with Russians to affect the 2016 Presidential election. Even though a thorough and unrestrained investigation of these allegations was conducted nothing came of it beyond the negative effects on the conduct of everyday Administration activities. In 2020 we again have numerous allegations of election fraud and other illegalities, some of a constitutional nature, that most Trump voters think affected the result, placing Joe Biden as POTUS instead of Donald Trump.

    With all due respect, as to the issue of Collusion, the Mueller Report found that there was “Collusion,” but not “Conspiracy.” I have copied the three page Introduction and the seven page Executive Summary on Volume I of the Mueller Report several times. In lieu of that, I refer you to my April 20, 2019 post on that issue. https://ricochet.com/615718/archives/the-mueller-report-in-four-summaries/

    As for Obstruction of Justice, Trump was guilty of ten counts of Obstruction of Justice. Again, I have copied the two page Introduction and the six page Executive Summary of Volume II of the Mueller Report several times. In lieu of that, I refer you to my April 20, 2019 post on that issue. https://ricochet.com/615718/archives/the-mueller-report-in-four-summaries/

    With all “due respect” …. please.

    You sincerely believe condoning the most despicable abuse of the Federal law enforcement and counter intelligence agencies against an opposition political party which included the unlawful surveillance abuse of innocent US citizens in the process deserves “due respect”????

    Shocking news flash: There never was any Trump Russia Collusion, it was always a HRC/DNC political stunt, and the ensuing investigation into Trump Russia Collusion was the highly disturbing abuse of power for the continuance of the (D) political stunt gone terribly wrong.

    Why in God’s name would you condone such disgusting corruption and abuse of power by your ostensible political opposite (ie: the Obama (D) holdover FBI/DOJ/IC/StateDept)?

    I would hope even coherent (D)’s would be aghast at this monumental political scandal, but for a supposed (R) to still pretend the Russian Hoax was for real is incomprehensible and flat our weird.

    • #73
  14. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Are you suggesting that if I don’t denounce something then it should be presumed that I support?

    Where have I heard that?

    • #74
  15. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    He didn’t even condemn the Biden/Harris campaign for bailing out leftist thugs.

    I wasn’t asked by anyone on that issue, but I certainly did not endorse it. Are you suggesting that if I don’t denounce something then it should be presumed that I support? That seems a rather soviet notion. (See the movie, The Death of Stalin.)

    I specifically asked you about it last summer; you didn’t seem to consider it an important detail, as you dodged the question, and it obviously made no difference to your outlook on things, further indicating that your opposition was about as strident as my opposition to brussell sprouts.

    • #75
  16. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

     

     

     

     

    That lie didn’t even last an hour. Will he even acknowledge it?

    • #76
  17. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    philo (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

     

     

     

     

    That lie didn’t even last an hour. Will he even acknowledge it?

    I’m not going to believe anything that isn’t denied or ignored by the NY Times.

    • #77
  18. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    He didn’t even condemn the Biden/Harris campaign for bailing out leftist thugs.

    I wasn’t asked by anyone on that issue, but I certainly did not endorse it. Are you suggesting that if I don’t denounce something then it should be presumed that I support? That seems a rather soviet notion. (See the movie, The Death of Stalin.)

    I specifically asked you about it last summer; you didn’t seem to consider it an important detail, as you dodged the question, and it obviously made no difference to your outlook on things, further indicating that your opposition was about as strident as my opposition to brussell sprouts.

    I don’t remember you asking, but now that you have put a point on it, I will respond that I was happy to see rioters arrested and distressed when they were given low bail amounts or released “OR” standing for being released on one’s “own recognizance.”  Thanks for the opportunity to clear that up.

    • #78
  19. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

     

    That lie didn’t even last an hour. Will he even acknowledge it?

    I’m not going to believe anything that isn’t denied or ignored by the NY Times.

    @garyrobbins — “Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost.”

    No, our country could really, really use a fair process to determine, once and for all, whether Trump really lost and Biden won.  Just as it wasn’t enough for LBJ to simply tell America how he thought the JFK assassination went down.  Or next time we may see an insurrection for real.

    On the second impeachment:  a lynching is still a lynching — and a kangaroo court, a kangaroo court — even if you think the victim is guilty.  With a rushed and superficial process, the House failed to fulfill its Constitutional role as grand jury in questions of Presidential misconduct.

    • #79
  20. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Taras (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

    That lie didn’t even last an hour. Will he even acknowledge it?

    I’m not going to believe anything that isn’t denied or ignored by the NY Times.

    @garyrobbins — “Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost.”

    No, our country could really, really use a fair process to determine, once and for all, whether Trump really lost and Biden won. Just as it wasn’t enough for LBJ to simply tell America how he thought the JFK assassination went down. Or next time we may see an insurrection for real.

    There was a fair process.

    Part of the fair process was some 60 lawsuits before 90+ judges and justices.  [Edit.  Karl Rove made this point today on Fox News Sunday.]

    Part of the fair process was a machine and manual recount of Georgia votes.

    There will be a third part of a fair process.  Dominion has challenged everyone who defamed them to recant, which numerous new outlets did.  Sidney Powell did not.  There will be an epic defamation lawsuit of Dominion against Sidney Powell, and I would guess anyone who did not recant.  Hopefully, that will end this for once and for all.

    On the second impeachment: a lynching is still a lynching — and a kangaroo court, a kangaroo court — even if you think the victim is guilty. With a rushed and superficial process, the House failed to fulfill its Constitutional role as grand jury in questions of Presidential misconduct.

    Impeachment is not a criminal matter, it is a political matter.  It is what the House and Senate say that it is.  Judging the impeachment by the rules of criminal procedure and caselaw is simply inapplicable.

    • #80
  21. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    Absolutely yes. I was thrilled when the “doctors” who were giving out “notes” to the thugs also got disciplined by their boards. I wish that all of the thugs had been arrested and charged.

    Links are good.

    First, this is a story that the University of Wisconsin was disciplining those doctors and the issue was being referred to the licensing board.  https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/uw-doctors-face-penalties-for-writing-sick-notes-for-protesters/article_bd14c73a-7039-11e0-b629-001cc4c03286.html

    Second, several doctors were formally reprimanded by their licensing board.  https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/health_med_fit/board-eyes-investigation-of-10-doctors-who-signed-questionable-sick-notes/article_136eaed8-2c2e-11e1-b4d3-001871e3ce6c.html.  This article states in part:

    “Last month, the medical board reprimanded seven doctors who wrote sick notes on the Capitol Square in February and gave warnings to two others. Notes signed by most of those doctors, also listing badgerdoctors@gmail.com, were among the records obtained by the paper Friday in a settlement with the district.”

    • #81
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Chuck (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    Read the transcript of the speech. It is all about overturning the election and pressuring Pence.

    I listened to it, and didn’t hear that his intent was to “overturn” the election, but to obtain a legitimate outcome.

    “Find 11,780 votes”?

    • #82
  23. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Yes. Why can’t people see this and admit this. There is no place for swarming and then invading the capitol building.

    Even in Madison?

    Yes, even in Madison. I remember reading Governor Walker’s book. I was really disappointed when he dropped out, and further disappointed that the field did not start dropping out quicker so that Trump could have been taken out “one on one.”

    But did you condemn the leftist thugs when they took over the capitol?

    Absolutely yes. I was thrilled when the “doctors” who were giving out “notes” to the thugs also got disciplined by their boards. I wish that all of the thugs had been arrested and charged.

    Links are good.

    First, this is a story that the University of Wisconsin was disciplining those doctors and the issue was being referred to the licensing board. https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/uw-doctors-face-penalties-for-writing-sick-notes-for-protesters/article_bd14c73a-7039-11e0-b629-001cc4c03286.html

    Second, several doctors were formally reprimanded by their licensing board. https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/health_med_fit/board-eyes-investigation-of-10-doctors-who-signed-questionable-sick-notes/article_136eaed8-2c2e-11e1-b4d3-001871e3ce6c.html. This article states in part:

    “Last month, the medical board reprimanded seven doctors who wrote sick notes on the Capitol Square in February and gave warnings to two others. Notes signed by most of those doctors, also listing badgerdoctors@gmail.com, were among the records obtained by the paper Friday in a settlement with the district.”

    I was hoping for links to your contemporaneous condemnations of the thugs, not to stories about the rather mild consequences imposed on some of  their collaborators. As we all know, failure to condemn something implies approval of it. 

    • #83
  24. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):
    my opposition to brussell sprouts

    It’s all in how you prepare them. They can be delicious.

    • #84
  25. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):
    my opposition to brussell sprouts

    It’s all in how you prepare them. They can be delicious.

    I also saw a headline that they’ve been bred to get rid of some of the bitterness so today’s Brussel sprout isn’t the same as one years ago. I’d never had them until a couple years ago at a lunch buffet at a conference. They were okay and didn’t live down to their reputation.

    • #85
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):
    my opposition to brussell sprouts

    It’s all in how you prepare them. They can be delicious.

    I don’t remember them ever not being delicious. 

    • #86
  27. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):
    my opposition to brussell sprouts

    It’s all in how you prepare them. They can be delicious.

    They can be made tolerable, never delicious.  

    • #87
  28. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):
    my opposition to brussell sprouts

    It’s all in how you prepare them. They can be delicious.

    They can be made tolerable, never delicious.

    Challenge flag.  Add olive oil, sea salt, grill.  Serve with wings.

    • #88
  29. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

    That lie didn’t even last an hour. Will he even acknowledge it?

    I’m not going to believe anything that isn’t denied or ignored by the NY Times.

    @garyrobbins — “Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost.”

    No, our country could really, really use a fair process to determine, once and for all, whether Trump really lost and Biden won. Just as it wasn’t enough for LBJ to simply tell America how he thought the JFK assassination went down. Or next time we may see an insurrection for real.

    There was a fair process.

    Part of the fair process was some 60 lawsuits before 90+ judges and justices. [Edit. Karl Rove made this point today on Fox News Sunday.]

    Part of the fair process was a machine and manual recount of Georgia votes.

    There will be a third part of a fair process. Dominion has challenged everyone who defamed them to recant, which numerous new outlets did. Sidney Powell did not. There will be an epic defamation lawsuit of Dominion against Sidney Powell, and I would guess anyone who did not recant. Hopefully, that will end this for once and for all.

    On the second impeachment: a lynching is still a lynching — and a kangaroo court, a kangaroo court — even if you think the victim is guilty. With a rushed and superficial process, the House failed to fulfill its Constitutional role as grand jury in questions of Presidential misconduct.

    Impeachment is not a criminal matter, it is a political matter. It is what the House and Senate say that it is. Judging the impeachment by the rules of criminal procedure and caselaw is simply inapplicable.

    Recounting the ballots that were submitted does not address the issue of whether those ballots were cast illegally; or simply manufactured by election workers in Democrat machine districts, whenever Biden’s margin of victory began to look iffy.

    Asking a state supreme court to intervene is laughable, if that court is trying to steal the election, as in Florida in 2000 or, it seems, Pennsylvania in 2020.

    Arguing that a President loses his Constitutional right to due process in an impeachment is absurd.  The Constitution doesn’t hand congress a blank check.

    • #89
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    In related news:

    “The U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an “unauthorized” inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.” https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/man-arrested-dc-checkpoint.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210116&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=105232905&segment_id=49517&user_id=10ccb219d500bab2c1eb73e0ac8ee272

    Our country could really, really use Trump admitting that he lost. Our country is more important that the ego of just one man.

     

     

     

     

    I should have been more clear about this. It sounds like he is an actual rent a cop and then he strayed into areas where his gun wasn’t registered. The first part is totally accurate the second part I may be missing some of the facts. 

    • #90
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