The GOP Have Lost Their Minds: Blame It on the Moon

 

It must be a perpetual full moon these days because the GOP has lost its ever lovin’ mind.  First some facts.

Polling conducted January 4-5, 2021 before the January 6 House and Senate electoral vote count indicated fairly broad support for challenging the election.  (Among more recognized polling names, Rasmussen did better with the 2020 election than many other pollsters.)

One of my favorite journalists, Mollie Hemingway, within the last 24 hours noted on social media that “Congressional approval at 15% according to Gallup. 60% in another poll say impeachment is a waste of money and time. In the same poll, 77% wish Congress were working on Coronavirus mitigation, not impeachment. And 80% of GOP voters in battleground states say they’d be less likely to vote GOP who support impeachment.”

Misthiocracy posted an article in The Link Library questioning how it was logistically possible for Trump speech attendees to reach the Capitol Building in time to participate in the riot.  If the ones attending his speech were not the ones rioting, then it follows the speech was not the cause of the riot.  Also interesting is Pelosi and McConnell’s high-level security people deflecting the Sergeant at Arms’ call for additional Guard help before January 6 because of bad “optics”.

The GOP at the state level is a mixed bag with the Arizona GOP chair moving to censure Gov Ducey for his lockdown policy (understandable to a point) and Cindy McCain and Jeff Flake for, among other things, opposing President Trump and in Flake’s case publicly coming out for Biden.  DeSantis and company over in FL are much sharper tacks: their move to divest state funds from Apple/Facebook/Amazon/Google/Twitter will likely garner them great support among independent, center and right-leaning voters.  They could grow the voter base beyond what Trump achieved with moves like that.

Now we arrive at the are-they-crazy national GOP moves:  Liz Cheney and Mitch McConnell are moving (whipping?) House and Senate Republicans to join in impeaching a President whose term ends in 7 days, and House Minority Leader McCarthy is open to censure.

This is how Liam Donovan citing the New York Times on social media put it:  “As stunning as Rs moving against Trump would be, the alternative is that he sticks around and makes their lives/careers hell for the next four years (at least.) If that’s going to happen anyway, a clean break looks pretty attractive. Now or never.”

Also from NYT’s Jonathan Martin:

“Biden called McConnell yesterday and asked if Senate could dual track impeachment trial and cabinet confirmations. Far from telling Biden he would not discuss the impeachment, McConnell said he would check with the parliamentarian and get back to Biden.

McConnell not only told Biden he’d be for Merrick Garland for AG, he reminded him he urged Trump to name Garland to succeed Comey at FBI.”

This is not just “how the sausage is made.”  This is a craven ruling class unmoored from its citizenry.  With a few exceptions, the GOP never acted as decisively to defend or assist the heartbeat of America – its working-class and small business citizens – as they are showing us they could have if they’d wanted to.  Had these same Republicans thrown their weight behind demanding a swift, forensic examination of the election in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Georgia in particular led by someone Americans could trust (hard call these days, I know) with results made public, I doubt we would have seen protesters in great numbers outside the Capitol building.

Now for some commentary after the facts.  The Rasmussen polling reference at the beginning of the post included quotes from an excellent Tucker Carlson editorial.  At different points in the clip, he spoke important words to two groups.

To all Americans:

“You may have nothing in common with people on the other side of the country…but you’re stuck with them.  The idea that groups of Americans will somehow break off into separate, peaceful nations of like minded citizens…that’s a fantasy….  There is no such thing as a peaceful separation….  The two separate hemispheres of this country are inseparably intertwined; neither can leave without killing the other.”

To US leaders:

“When thousands of your countrymen storm the Capitol building…if you don’t bother to pause and learn a single thing from it, then you’re a fool.  You lack wisdom and self-awareness.  You have no place running a country.”

It could not be clearer that the GOP is as focused on purging Donald Trump as the Democrats.   They’ll say it’s for what he has done, but it’s really for what they are afraid he will do to influence US voters in the future.  This means it’s not really Donald Trump that’s the problem to them, it’s tens of millions of US voters.  So they will try to purge him for their own good, and the democratic republic known as the United States of America can fend for itself.  If more Americans become too troublesome, just pass some laws making MAGA gatherings domestic terrorism and arrest and fine them.  Put them on Schumer’s no-fly lists, kick them off planes for having private conversations about Trump, make them understand they are to be silent or they will become unemployable.  No need to wait for a Biden term to officially start; these are all current or in the works.

Smart, capable leaders could have built on what the Trump presidency accomplished and put whatever personal aspects they didn’t like in the rearview mirror at little cost to themselves.

Borrowing from Tucker: these people have no place running a country.  Too many of them have too little imagination, and would rather perpetuate their own careers than act to alleviate or even defend the election integrity concerns of so many millions of Americans.  Shortsighted of them, I must say.  I cannot think of one time that I’ve gone back for another bite after someone tried to make me swallow something I didn’t like ‘for my own good’.

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  1. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    MarciN (View Comment):

    There’s only way this can end: Donald Trump leaves Washington and starts a new political party made up of people who share his concerns about Big Tech, Big Business, and the growing threat posed by the communist bloc led by China.

    The nice thing is that this new party has a really good start–it won’t take years to get off the ground. The current Republican leadership has been consumed by their dislike of Donald Trump. It has prevented them from seeing what their constituents’ real fears and concerns are.

    And that’s how this started: the Republicans’ constituents were concerned about immigration policy and the Iran Deal, and Trump was the only candidate who seemed to share those concerns.

    The Republicans think they are putting an end to Donald Trump. In reality, they are putting an end to their own careers. Clearly, they don’t care about their careers. They have embraced martyrdom: “This is all the fault of Trump and his followers.”

    Well such a split would cause the Dems to certainly dominate for a generation. 

    • #31
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mim526: Smart, capable leaders could have built on what the Trump presidency accomplished and put whatever personal aspects they didn’t like in the rearview mirror at little cost to themselves.

    The concept of “smart, capable Republican leadership” broke my oxymoron meter.

    In another post, @Ed G. Called them “timid, incompetent & false”. I’ve taken to using the acronym TI&F. I think it completely captures the most significant characteristics of the type.

    Thanks Ekosj. For years I’ve been trying to come up with a better word to fill the third slot. Timid and incompetent were easy, but it sounds like “false” has won it’s place in the phrase. I had tried “beholden”, “disingenuous”, “duplicitous”. Those were always a bit unwieldy, but “false” fits.

    Two-faced.

    • #32
  3. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    I donated more money than usual for me this cycle, and I get multiple texts per day and emails from Republicans with screaming headlines to alarm me about what the Democrats are going to do. We must act. I delete them all without emotion or interest. I’m burned out.

    I get so many that I spend an hour a day deleting the texts and emails by the thousands.

    UNSUBSCRIBE

    Like I just did with Ronna Romney Mcdaniel: She is so thrilled to have been re-elected as RNC Chairwoman.

    • #33
  4. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    I heard an interesting opinion on woke culture. The Oligarchs promote wokism, to distract the Left from exploitation of the underclass and massive transfer of wealth from the underclass to the ruling class. Bernie Sanders and Occupy Wall Street and TEA parties were dangerous to them, but wokism distracts the underclass while costing the Oligarchs nothing. In fact it is one more tool to destroy small businesses and upstarts.

    Interesting. If true it’s a very dangerous game. Wokism is class/race factionalism with white capitalists cast as the villain … the root cause of everything evil in America. And the villains are irredeemable. There is only so long that this message can be preached before the alleged victims take action on the only logical conclusion.

    The nearest historical analogue – Mao’s Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution – killed more than a million ‘reactionaries’ and destroyed the lives of millions more. And it turned on a dime, with persecutors becoming persecuted in a heartbeat. In The World Turned Upside Down, Chinese author Yang Jisheng describes a “repetitive process in which the different sides took turns enjoying the upper hand and losing power, being honored and imprisoned, and purging and being purged”. Is this what the Wokists want? Or are they just ignorant of the history?

    The tech oligarchs are sure they are above the fray. They have personal security, private jets, second, third and fourth homes in various foreign countries. They are confident they are immune to the chaos they are creating.

    Where is Jack Ma, the owner of Alibaba?

    • #34
  5. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    I don’t watch any TV News, but that was a great editorial by Carlson.  It seems that the GOP has decided that they will learn something from Jan 6th, I’m just not sure its the right thing.  They certainly haven’t even wondered why people are upset.  Then again, they didn’t know in 2016 either.

    • #35
  6. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    Manny (View Comment):

    Well such a split would cause the Dems to certainly dominate for a generation.

    The last time a major political party imploded, it was 8 years from them holding the White House until the party that replaced them held it.  The Dems won the elections of 1852 and 1856, and the GOP in 1860.  So, a generation might be too long.  Of course the rules that the two parties have put in place to make them preeminent make it much harder for a third party today.

    • #36
  7. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mim526: Smart, capable leaders could have built on what the Trump presidency accomplished and put whatever personal aspects they didn’t like in the rearview mirror at little cost to themselves.

    The concept of “smart, capable Republican leadership” broke my oxymoron meter.

    Maybe it is time to update the old Will Rogers saying: I don’t belong to an organized party. I’m a Republican. 

    • #37
  8. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mim526: Smart, capable leaders could have built on what the Trump presidency accomplished and put whatever personal aspects they didn’t like in the rearview mirror at little cost to themselves.

    The concept of “smart, capable Republican leadership” broke my oxymoron meter.

    In another post, @Ed G. Called them “timid, incompetent & false”. I’ve taken to using the acronym TI&F. I think it completely captures the most significant characteristics of the type.

    Thanks Ekosj. For years I’ve been trying to come up with a better word to fill the third slot. Timid and incompetent were easy, but it sounds like “false” has won it’s place in the phrase. I had tried “beholden”, “disingenuous”, “duplicitous”. Those were always a bit unwieldy, but “false” fits.

    “Dumb” might have worked as well. It fits Hanlon’s Razor. 

    • #38
  9. DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone Member
    DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Mim526: This is not just “how the sausage is made.” This is a craven ruling class unmoored from its citizenry.

    Ayup!

    • #39
  10. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Compare McConnell’s self-serving actions now with his reaction to the BLM riots; that record is more disgraceful than anything Trump has done the last two months.

    Daily Kos:

    In 1990, Elaine Chao was introduced to Mitch McConnell, senator since 1985, divorced since 1980. Did she consider the usefulness of a congressional connection before this encounter? Or did opportunism arise from the obvious advantages to herself of cultivating the relationship? Her strong-willed character together with vaulting ambition inherited from her father suggests both are possible. 

    McConnell was undoubtedly an attractive proposition for her: he had a senate seat but not much money, prestige or leverage. What McConnell lacked, Elaine Chao had in abundance. Moreover, she had the capability to make him into the man he wanted to be and the partner she needed to realise her ambitions. 

    She introduced him to a level of society and affluence he’d never known before. She had her father, their friends and business associates throw cash by the bucket-loads into his campaign coffers. She was passionate about politics and he listened to her

    The senator had started to shift from a hawkish stance [on China that] aligned with arch-conservative Foreign Relations Committee chairman Jesse Helms to more moderate positions. 

    Breitbart:

    [T]he Chinese government is seeking commercial ties, lucrative deals for the families of American politicians precisely because they believe it will lead those politicians to be less critical of the Chinese government,” [Peter Schweizer] said.

    “In the case of Mitch McConnell, that is absolutely true,” he charged. “He came into the U.S. Senate in the 1980s from Kentucky. We had, of course, the Tiananmen Square massacre that took place. Mitch McConnell was probably the most critical U.S. senator on China in the midst of that massive human rights violation.”

    “And yet, in 1993 his family began very lucrative ties with the Chinese government. In December of 1993 he traveled to Beijing, China with his father-in-law – that would be Elaine Chao’s father James Chao – as guests of the China State Shipbuilding Corporation. As the name implies, that is a company owned by the Chinese government. They are, in fact, one of the biggest military contractors in China,” he noted.

    Schweizer said the Chao’s shipping business grew so rapidly after the 1993 deal that by 2008, the Chao family was able to gift their son-in-law Mitch McConnell with a sum of between $5 and $25 million, which “massively increased his net worth overnight.”

    “He benefits when the Chao family does well financially. It helps his bottom line,” Schweizer emphasized.

    . . .

    “It only stands to reason because if you look at how the Chao family business is set up, if the Chinese government were upset with something that Senator Mitch McConnell did, they could literally destroy the Chao family business overnight. Mitch McConnell knows that,” said Schweizer.

    • #40
  11. Marythefifth Inactive
    Marythefifth
    @Marythefifth

    Django (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mim526: Smart, capable leaders could have built on what the Trump presidency accomplished and put whatever personal aspects they didn’t like in the rearview mirror at little cost to themselves.

    The concept of “smart, capable Republican leadership” broke my oxymoron meter.

    In another post, @Ed G. Called them “timid, incompetent & false”. I’ve taken to using the acronym TI&F. I think it completely captures the most significant characteristics of the type.

    Thanks Ekosj. For years I’ve been trying to come up with a better word to fill the third slot. Timid and incompetent were easy, but it sounds like “false” has won it’s place in the phrase. I had tried “beholden”, “disingenuous”, “duplicitous”. Those were always a bit unwieldy, but “false” fits.

    “Dumb” might have worked as well. It fits Hanlon’s Razor.

    I’m thinking we reintroduce the word quisling.

    • #41
  12. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    There is no such thing as a peaceful separation….

    Singapore’s expulsion from Malaysia. The dissolution of Czechoslovakia.

    Sadly, those are the only examples I can think of.

    Break up of the USSR. The British Empire for the most part allow self rule. You could argue most state as much if not more power than many a USSR puppet state and British Colonial had.  So that fact we are federalist makes it more likely, I hope.

    • #42
  13. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    There is no such thing as a peaceful separation….

    Singapore’s expulsion from Malaysia. The dissolution of Czechoslovakia.

    Sadly, those are the only examples I can think of.

    Break up of the USSR. The British Empire for the most part allow self rule. You could argue most state as much if not more power than many a USSR puppet state and British Colonial had. So that fact we are federalist makes it more likely, I hope.

    Singapore is ethnically pretty homogeneous. Czechoslovakia broke up largely on ethnic lines. To a significant extent so did the USSR.

    • #43
  14. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mim526: Smart, capable leaders could have built on what the Trump presidency accomplished and put whatever personal aspects they didn’t like in the rearview mirror at little cost to themselves.

    The concept of “smart, capable Republican leadership” broke my oxymoron meter.

    Yeah, I’m getting the sinking feeling that Ryan-ism is alive and well in the Republican party.

    • #44
  15. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    MarciN (View Comment):

    There’s only way this can end: Donald Trump leaves Washington and starts a new political party made up of people who share his concerns about Big Tech, Big Business, and the growing threat posed by the communist bloc led by China.

    I’m with you on the new party…  but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.

    I’m reminded of what British General Alexander said to Eisenhower after the incompetent American commander Lloyd Fredendall got his ass kicked by the Germans at Kasserine Pass: “I’m sure that you have better men than that.”

    • #45
  16. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    • #46
  17. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    There’s only way this can end: Donald Trump leaves Washington and starts a new political party made up of people who share his concerns about Big Tech, Big Business, and the growing threat posed by the communist bloc led by China.

    I’m with you on the new party… but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.

    I’m reminded of what British General Alexander said to Eisenhower after the incompetent American command Lloyd Fredendall got his ass kicked by the Germans at Kasserine Pass: “I’m sure that you have better men than that.”

     

    Tend to agree.  I voted twice for Trump but his idiotic behavior during the Georgia Senatorial fiasco was my breaking point.  I can still thank him for defeating the miserable Hillary Clinton but that was yesterday.  To coin an old phrase, “What Have You Done for me Lately?”

    • #47
  18. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    There’s only way this can end: Donald Trump leaves Washington and starts a new political party made up of people who share his concerns about Big Tech, Big Business, and the growing threat posed by the communist bloc led by China.

    I’m with you on the new party… but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.

    I’m reminded of what British General Alexander said to Eisenhower after the incompetent American command Lloyd Fredendall got his ass kicked by the Germans at Kasserine Pass: “I’m sure that you have better men than that.”

     

    Tend to agree. I voted twice for Trump but his idiotic behavior during the Georgia Senatorial fiasco was my breaking point. I can still thank him for defeating the miserable Hillary Clinton but that was yesterday. To coin an old phrase, “What Have You Done for me Lately?”

    If Trump really wants to hose the GOP, he should form that third party, but step aside as its frontman and through his support behind someone who doesn’t carry all the toxic baggage he does (and maybe has a little more self-discipline). But that’s the problem right there. Trump’s ego likely won’t allow him to do such a thing. He’s got to be the center of attention.

    • #48
  19. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    I heard an interesting opinion on woke culture. The Oligarchs promote wokism, to distract the Left from exploitation of the underclass and massive transfer of wealth from the underclass to the ruling class. Bernie Sanders and Occupy Wall Street and TEA parties were dangerous to them, but wokism distracts the underclass while costing the Oligarchs nothing. In fact it is one more tool to destroy small businesses and upstarts.

    Interesting. If true it’s a very dangerous game. Wokism is class/race factionalism with white capitalists cast as the villain … the root cause of everything evil in America. And the villains are irredeemable. There is only so long that this message can be preached before the alleged victims take action on the only logical conclusion.

    The nearest historical analogue – Mao’s Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution – killed more than a million ‘reactionaries’ and destroyed the lives of millions more. And it turned on a dime, with persecutors becoming persecuted in a heartbeat. In The World Turned Upside Down, Chinese author Yang Jisheng describes a “repetitive process in which the different sides took turns enjoying the upper hand and losing power, being honored and imprisoned, and purging and being purged”. Is this what the Wokists want? Or are they just ignorant of the history?

    Both-the two are not mutually exclusive.  All the woke people came up through the schools recently, where they have been taught that America is the enemy.  Also, if “white capitalists” are the villains, what about all those White Capitalist Investment Banks who funded all of their campaigns?  When will they turn on those whose money they solicit and receive?

    • #49
  20. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Well such a split would cause the Dems to certainly dominate for a generation.

    The last time a major political party imploded, it was 8 years from them holding the White House until the party that replaced them held it. The Dems won the elections of 1852 and 1856, and the GOP in 1860. So, a generation might be too long. Of course the rules that the two parties have put in place to make them preeminent make it much harder for a third party today.

    8 years ago?  2012?  Yes your last sentence is quite true.  Ross Perot was the only one who had some meaningful third party effort and he did cause Bill Clinton to get elected.

    • #50
  21. RPD Inactive
    RPD
    @RPD

    “I’m with you on the new party… but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.”

    It’s not so much finding someone, but for someone to step up. Who picked Trump? The voters did because he stepped up and got their attention. So who’s the next charismatic person to step up? Cruz? Someone else?

     

     

    • #51
  22. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    Manny (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Well such a split would cause the Dems to certainly dominate for a generation.

    The last time a major political party imploded, it was 8 years from them holding the White House until the party that replaced them held it. The Dems won the elections of 1852 and 1856, and the GOP in 1860. So, a generation might be too long. Of course the rules that the two parties have put in place to make them preeminent make it much harder for a third party today.

    8 years ago? 2012? Yes your last sentence is quite true. Ross Perot was the only one who had some meaningful third party effort and he did cause Bill Clinton to get elected.

    The last time a major political party imploded was 1852 when the Whig candidate Winfield Scott got beaten 254-42 carrying only 4 states and was the last time that the Whigs won any electoral college votes.

    • #52
  23. Paul Dougherty Member
    Paul Dougherty
    @PaulDougherty

    RPD (View Comment):

     

    “I’m with you on the new party… but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.”

    It’s not so much finding someone, but for someone to step up. Who picked Trump? The voters did because he stepped up and got their attention. So who’s the next charismatic person to step up? Cruz? Someone else?

     

     

    It may be helpful for the party to develop a platform, some set of principles by which successors would be evaluated. I doubt that building a party based on the charisma of a key politician is a recipe for longevity.

    • #53
  24. Mim526 Inactive
    Mim526
    @Mim526

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Mim526: Misthiocracy posted an article in The Link Library questioning how it was logistically possible for Trump speech attendees to reach the Capitol Building in time to participate in the riot. If the ones attending his speech were not the ones rioting, then it follows the speech was not the cause of the riot. Also interesting is Pelosi and McConnell’s high level security people deflecting the Sergeant at Arms’ call for additional Guard help before January 6 because of bad “optics”.

    This timeline is interesting, and it provides support for the position that the riot was independent of the speech.

    I don’t think that it is conclusive. I haven’t checked, but I assume that the speech was broadcast live, so people at the Capitol could have been watching and listening on their phones.

    The same thought occurred to me.  I imagine there were people watching/listening, but they should not be confused with Trump supporters.  Trump supporters were listening to him speak, and President Trump is repeatedly being accused of inciting his supporters to riot and doing nothing to send out the Guard in aid.

    EDIT:  An article posted in our Link Library by Misthiocracy illustrates the importance of distinguishing between rioters and Trump supporters.  Buffalo horns guy, arguably the face most often used to make Trump supporters synonymous with Capitol rioters, was photographed/quoted at Arizona climate change strike marches in 2019.  Media such as CNN of course left that detail out of their coverage of him.  You can take your pick between reasons why he was at Capitol riots, but climate change support and Donald Trump support are near irreconcilable.

     

    • #54
  25. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Well such a split would cause the Dems to certainly dominate for a generation.

    The last time a major political party imploded, it was 8 years from them holding the White House until the party that replaced them held it. The Dems won the elections of 1852 and 1856, and the GOP in 1860. So, a generation might be too long. Of course the rules that the two parties have put in place to make them preeminent make it much harder for a third party today.

    8 years ago? 2012? Yes your last sentence is quite true. Ross Perot was the only one who had some meaningful third party effort and he did cause Bill Clinton to get elected.

    The last time a major political party imploded was 1852 when the Whig candidate Winfield Scott got beaten 254-42 carrying only 4 states and was the last time that the Whigs won any electoral college votes.

    I was confused by your 8 years.  I thought you meant 8 years ago.

    • #55
  26. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    RPD (View Comment):

     

    “I’m with you on the new party… but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.”

    It’s not so much finding someone, but for someone to step up. Who picked Trump? The voters did because he stepped up and got their attention. So who’s the next charismatic person to step up? Cruz? Someone else?

     

     

    Given the way the GOPe and the Demo-rats attacked and are still attempting to destroy Trump and his family, who would want to step up?

    • #56
  27. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    Paul Dougherty (View Comment):

    It may be helpful for the party to develop a platform, some set of principles by which successors would be evaluated. I doubt that building a party based on the charisma of a key politician is a recipe for longevity.

    Very true.  Its also going to be difficult to form a party when much of it is the same ideology as the GOP.

    But there are two big voting blocks that are ripe for such an action.  One is the social conservatives, especially the Evangelical Christians, and the second are the working class voters that actually won the election for Trump in 2016.  Both parties have spurned them paying them some lip service, but not actually working towards the policies that they like/want/need.  Both groups have some natural alignments and don’t have the difficult baggage that the GOP suffers from in some policy areas.

    • #57
  28. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    Yet another Ricochet piece i wish I could recommend several times. Thank you.

    • #58
  29. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    Manny (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    There’s only way this can end: Donald Trump leaves Washington and starts a new political party made up of people who share his concerns about Big Tech, Big Business, and the growing threat posed by the communist bloc led by China.

    The nice thing is that this new party has a really good start–it won’t take years to get off the ground. The current Republican leadership has been consumed by their dislike of Donald Trump. It has prevented them from seeing what their constituents’ real fears and concerns are.

    And that’s how this started: the Republicans’ constituents were concerned about immigration policy and the Iran Deal, and Trump was the only candidate who seemed to share those concerns.

    The Republicans think they are putting an end to Donald Trump. In reality, they are putting an end to their own careers. Clearly, they don’t care about their careers. They have embraced martyrdom: “This is all the fault of Trump and his followers.”

    Well such a split would cause the Dems to certainly dominate for a generation.

    That would be a truism of the Dems had not cheated their way to many of the Dem victories over the past 20 years. Even here in Calif, none of my Republican friends believe that John Cox lost to Gavin Newson in the governor’s race by the margin of 38% to 60%. Some Dems I know don’t believe it either.

    If Trump takes on the electoral processes, and the people he has working on the issue make a great bit of hay out of how a computer system,  such as the Dominion systems vote counting machinery, can only be caught flipping votes in real time, we may still have chance to get our country back on track. it is also going to be necessary to get us out of situation, such as we have in California, where you vote without showing ID. (I voted in the election  in person. Although I had my ID out of my purse, ready to hand over, I was told that they weren’t requiring ID any more.)

    • #59
  30. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    RPD (View Comment):

    “I’m with you on the new party… but can we please find someone other than Donald Trump to lead it? Is that the best we’ve got? I was willing to vote for the guy twice because of the alternatives, but I’ve had enough.”

    It’s not so much finding someone, but for someone to step up. Who picked Trump? The voters did because he stepped up and got their attention. So who’s the next charismatic person to step up? Cruz? Someone else?

    The new crop of young and dynamic Gavin Newsom resistors are one likely source.

    My money is on Kevin Kiley, for one. He is a state legislator who has brought a court suit against Newsom for issuing decrees about lockdowns and masking without having the state legislature rule on them. There is talk of him running for governor.

    Right now, there is also  a lot of new blood inside the Walkaway movement as well. Candace Owen has stated she likes her spot as spokesperson for the movement. But others see her as a natural to run for a serious political office.

    • #60
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