Where Now, Republicans?

 

Pickett’s Charge, Battle of Gettysburg, 1863.

Republicans were reeling before last week’s criminal breach of the US Capitol. But that breach, led by lunatics who deserve serious jail time, tossed Democrats a cudgel with which to drive a wedge between pro- and anti-Trump Republicans.

It reminds me of the infamous “Pickett’s charge” during the Battle of Gettysburg in July 1863. General George Pickett led his Confederate troops in an ill-fated charge across an open field in an effort to break the center of the Union line. It failed, but the Democrat’s own version of Pickett’s charge, with the artillery cover of the Capitol “insurrection,” has indeed breached the GOP middle. And how has the GOP responded? By shooting at each other.

I saw evidence of it on my now former Facebook page yesterday. Otherwise intelligent Washingtonians and anti-Trumper Republicans, the same ones who said little to nothing while over 200 cities were pummeled with violence this past summer, expect everyone to clutch their pearls and demand Trump’s immediate removal. And if you don’t, you support the insurrectionists and need to learn history (or, more accurately, “reeducation”). That all sounds familiar, and not in a good way. There is no nuance, no exceptions, and zero appreciation for history or self-awareness. With “friends” like this, who needs enemies?

Smarter, more dispassionate, and clear-eyed Republicans with some appreciation for history understand this. They know the party has been here before. After 1930. After 1958. After 1964. After 1974. After 1992. After 2008, when Barack Obama and the Democrats had a massive majority in the House and, for a time, a filibuster-proof Senate. It is time for some retrospection about events and to reengineer things for 2022 and beyond.

The path forward is not complicated, but not easy to traverse.

Let’s look at what has happened to the GOP over the past four years, from a 30,000-foot perspective.

The Republican Party has become an increasingly personality-driven party. It is the party not known widely for its successful policies and actions over the past four years, but as “The Party of Trump.” For all of Trump’s undeniable success and record of achievement, that is historically unfamiliar territory for a party that has always been, during its most successful days, an agenda-driven party – lower taxes, less government, a strong economy, safe neighborhoods, good schools, and peace through strength.

But what has America been hearing the past several months? The election is rigged or stolen. But vote Republican anyway! How did that work out in Georgia’s January 5 US Senate runoff elections? They’ve also seen Republicans shoot at each over the failure, in many minds, to give election law violations and irregularities (if not outright fraud) a fair hearing, especially by the courts. When some in Congress tried to provide such a hearing, consistent with the Electoral Count Act, the Capitol insurrection led by a few QAnon nuts and criminals undermined it and turned some House and Senate members into pariahs and targets for marginalization and outright cancelation. Ultimately, the job of exposing election illegalities fell to state legislatures, and they mostly punted.

That’s where we are. What now?

Republicans cannot allow Democrats to succeed in driving a wedge between Republicans. Republicans, for their part, need to focus their sights on two things: rediscovering their agenda (their “brand”) and combatting Democratic excesses that are sure to come. They always do.

A forward-looking, optimistic agenda that resonates with our new, emerging multi-ethnic working-class base should also help bring suburban voters turned off by Trump back into the fold. Restoring our economic strength by smartly ending the badly-implemented lockdowns; reforming and building good schools run by parents and focused on critical thinking, not indoctrination; safe neighborhoods; and military strength to preserve the peace and reign in an emergent communist power in Asia. Add “Big Tech” censorship and election reform (at the state level) to the list as well, but those may not resonate as well with voters we need to attract.

While Trump isn’t going away – Democrats hope he doesn’t, and fully intend for him to serve as an albatross around GOP necks the next four years – there is no doubt that Republicans had successes at the local, state, and US House level in 2020. Republicans need to build on those successes to capture more seats at the local, state, and congressional levels with a focus on capturing a House if not a Senate majority in 2022.

Part of that will be allowing new spokespeople and leaders to step forward. The RNC should consider naming a new lead spokesman for the party. Someone not running for President who has the respect of House and Senate leaders, as well as GOP governors. A leader or leaders with sharp minds, quick wits, and a pleasant demeanor, who don’t clearly and cleanly fall into a “never” or “pro” Trump group trap. Leave the party machinery to the estimable current RNC chair Ronna McDaniel.

Who are some of the new spokespeople the GOP should promote? US Sen. Tim Scott, R-SC. US Rep. Elise Stefanik, R-NY. Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson, R-NC. US Rep. Mike Garcia, R-CA. New US Rep. Tony Gonzalez (R-TX). That’s a younger, geographically and racially diverse group of leaders with great personal stories and inclusive messages, most of whom are also serious, articulate legislators. There are others, but those come to mind. And the leaders need not come from the ranks of the elected, but successful community activists, business leaders, educators, and elsewhere.

Lastly, Republicans of all stripes need to show some grace and stop focusing their guns on each other. Never Trumpers should stop disparaging pro-Trump Republicans, and learn to listen. Pro-Trumpers should focus less on tribalism, accept the reality of the moment, reject lawlessness, and work constructively to build on their successes of the past four-plus years. Republicans cannot afford to lose members of either camp. Both sides are guilty of shouting past each other and possessing an “either-or” mentality. How is that working out for you? Both wings of the party are needed for a successful flight.

The hard part is trying to achieve this in the face of media, cultural, and educational headwinds. The questions are, who will lead, and will anyone follow?

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 133 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    This image is one of dozens of similar demonstrations seen by many many reporters (conservative and liberal) out there that day.

    Moreover, I don’t care if they were facing east or not – one does not drape oneself in a Trump flag to pray. That is sickening.

    What if one is already draped in a Trump flag (say, they’re at a Trump rally) and at some point during the day they feel the need to pray. Is that still sickening even if they didn’t wrap themselves in Trump paraphernalia in order to pray?

    What if they were at the football game and they still have their cheesehead hat and foam finger still on them? Is that abomination? What if they have Bears facepaint and the Bears flag still on their shoulders – can they pray then without falling short of your standard? I wouldn’t pick that time to pray either, but some people are more conscientious about praying than I am. Or are you just rationalizing to fit the narrative you want?

    I don’t think it’s just rationalizing, since so many other totemic uses of Trump have been caught on film. But in this particular case, my initial impression matched Ed’s. People wearing a Trump flag as a cape the whole time they’re at a Trump rally seems pretty common, and it may mean no more to them than a Trump sweatshirt, but turned up to eleven. After a while, mightn’t you just forget you’re literally wrapped in a flag as you mill about at a demonstration like this?

    Are flag capes as casual rally wear spiritually healthy, especially for those most inclined to treat flags with reverence? Maybe not, but the Girl Scout training that wearing a flag is actually disrespectful to it is deep enough ingrained in me that flag-wearing as a gesture of added reverence just doesn’t compute for me in the first place, though it sure seems to for other people, especially soccer fans.

    • #91
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    You are the one making these judgements.

    Aside from the media etc portraying Obama as “messiah,” “the second coming,” etc.

    • #92
  3. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    Then he’d be wrong for being a Biden or Obama supporter. But it wouldn’t be sacrilege unless he were praying TO Biden or Obama.

    • #93
  4. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    This image is one of dozens of similar demonstrations seen by many many reporters (conservative and liberal) out there that day.

    Moreover, I don’t care if they were facing east or not – one does not drape oneself in a Trump flag to pray. That is sickening.

    What if one is already draped in a Trump flag (say, they’re at a Trump rally) and at some point during the day they feel the need to pray. Is that still sickening even if they didn’t wrap themselves in Trump paraphernalia in order to pray?

    What if they were at the football game and they still have their cheesehead hat and foam finger still on them? Is that abomination? What if they have Bears facepaint and the Bears flag still on their shoulders – can they pray then without falling short of your standard? I wouldn’t pick that time to pray either, but some people are more conscientious about praying than I am. Or are you just rationalizing to fit the narrative you want?

    I don’t think it’s just rationalizing, since so many other totemic uses of Trump have been caught on film.

    That doesn’t fly. I don’t even know what you mean by “totemic uses of Trump”. Aside from that, insisting that he knows what this person is doing and refusing to even comment any of the reasonable rebuttals feels an awful lot like rationalization to me. Other explanations begin to get less charitable.

    • #94
  5. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    I just heard some news on the radio regarding GOPe members who are supporting the impeachment. So in answer to the OP question, I suggest they take up permanent residence in a much, much warmer location. Not surprisingly, The Turtle says that impeachment will not only get rid of Trump, but the Trump movement as well. What a [redacted] idiot! But typical of the GOPe. 

    Back to voting for the Constitution party candidates or just ignoring politics altogether. 

    • #95
  6. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    • #96
  7. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Django (View Comment):

    I just heard some news on the radio regarding GOPe members who are supporting the impeachment. So in answer to the OP question, I suggest they take up permanent residence in a much, much warmer location. Not surprisingly, The Turtle says that impeachment will not only get rid of Trump, but the Trump movement as well. What a [redacted] idiot! But typical of the GOPe.

    Back to voting for the Constitution party candidates or just ignoring politics altogether.

    Yes, this is the suicide of the GOPe.  I am not inclined to trust a NY Times story but, if true, this is the end of the GOP.  I see no reason to support them anymore and will be happy to turn over the reins to the NTs like  Gary Robbins.

     

    I still hope it is a NY Times lie but I see this.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/392123.php

     

     

     

    • #97
  8. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.  

    • #98
  9. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    There’s one more thing.  Trump was hated and maligned before he ever won the presidency.  Seemingly overnight he went from being a darling of the left, the entertainment world and the political scene (I believe he was invited to Chelsea’s wedding) to being a vulgar, brutish, brainless, illiterate, anti-social, psychiatrically-diagnoseable, malignant, corrupt, narcissistic, would-be dictator.  Of course the CIA/ Globalists hated him, and therefore the Media and Hollywood, and the communist groups, and therefore the weak-brained we-are-the-world types.  But even the GOPe shunned and obstructed him (or else 0bamacare would have been repealed in the first two years).

    But it happened so quickly and broadly and thoroughly.  This in itself screams out intentional coordination.  And we all know how the next four years went; Russia, 25th Amendment, Mueller, Ukraine impeachment, covid response, accusations that he won’t step down, corrupt courts, and now this alleged insurrection and impeachment again, and 25th Amendment again

    This isn’t about Trump; Trump has been a pinata for some other reason that his personality.  Perhaps it was because he really did believe in the Constitution.  And maybe it was that he was set to reform the CIA.  And maybe it was because he would inevitably delay the so-called Great Reset.

    But of one thing I am certain.  This was never about Trump.

    • #99
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):
    Yes, this is the suicide of the GOPe. I am not inclined to trust a NY Times story but, if true, this is the end of the GOP. I see no reason to support them anymore and will be happy to turn over the reins to the NTs like Gary Robbins.

    They can all meet in that phone booth over there —->

    • #100
  11. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    I’ve said before and I still say it: this is often asserted but rarely true.

    • #101
  12. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Chris Oler (View Comment):

    Bucknelldad: that is historically unfamiliar territory for a party that has always been, during its most successful days, an agenda driven party

    I’m confused, when was this? Abolition?

    Under Reagan, we adopted the three tenets of social conservatism, smaller government and a robust national defense.

    Those are tenets that I’ve always stood for. I hope the GOP goes back to them, though I’m not optimistic. Until then I don’t have a party that represents my values.

    • #102
  13. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Flicker (View Comment):
    There’s one more thing. Trump was hated and maligned before he ever won the presidency.

    Hatred is not a feature to be easily associated with patriotism.

    Edith Cavell, a British nurse, was executed as a spy by the Germans in 1915. She saved the lives of many soldiers and others from both sides in WWI. Her dying statement:

    “Patriotism is not enough . . . I must have no hatred in my heart for anyone.”

    President Trump is an American Patriot. Beyond that, I have failed to detect in him any semblance of hatred of others, even those working the most diligently to unseat him or the leaders of our strongest and most threatening enemies. Oh, he has certainly been accused but the evidence to support the accusations has not been there. I have been extremely impressed by those assembled around him, friends, family members and work associates. I just don’t see hatred emanating from that source.

    I have concluded that the remainder of the elite governing much of this nation and its subsidiary units are infected by an evil that could cost the American people their freedom as individuals. I see hatred and an absence of patriotism.

    • #103
  14. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Chris Oler (View Comment):

    Bucknelldad: that is historically unfamiliar territory for a party that has always been, during its most successful days, an agenda driven party

    I’m confused, when was this? Abolition?

    Under Reagan, we adopted the three tenets of social conservatism, smaller government and a robust national defense.

    Those are tenets that I’ve always stood for. I hope the GOP goes back to them, though I’m not optimistic. Until then I don’t have a party that represents my values.

    Trump did as much to support Social Conservatives as anyone, he was the first President to attend the right to life March.

    Trump is one of a handful of Presidents who actually shrunk government (not spending I don’t think anyone has done this since Coolidge.)

    Trump supported the Military, at the very least he is the first guy in a long time not to send troops to a new country.

    You had all the things you were looking for, just not in the package you might have wanted 

     

    • #104
  15. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    Jager (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Chris Oler (View Comment):

    Bucknelldad: that is historically unfamiliar territory for a party that has always been, during its most successful days, an agenda driven party

    I’m confused, when was this? Abolition?

    Under Reagan, we adopted the three tenets of social conservatism, smaller government and a robust national defense.

    Those are tenets that I’ve always stood for. I hope the GOP goes back to them, though I’m not optimistic. Until then I don’t have a party that represents my values.

    Trump did as much to support Social Conservatives as anyone, he was the first President to attend the right to life March.

    Trump is one of a handful of Presidents who actually shrunk government (not spending I don’t think anyone has done this since Coolidge.)

    Trump supported the Military, at the very least he is the first guy in a long time not to send troops to a new country.

    You had all the things you were looking for, just not in the package you might have wanted

    Willful ignorance blindness…makes some feel better.

    • #105
  16. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    There’s one more thing. Trump was hated and maligned before he ever won the presidency.

    Hatred is not a feature to be easily associated with patriotism.

    Edith Cavell, a British nurse, was executed as a spy by the Germans in 1915. She saved the lives of many soldiers and others from both sides in WWI. Her dying statement:

    “Patriotism is not enough . . . I must have no hatred in my heart for anyone.”

    President Trump is an American Patriot. Beyond that, I have failed to detect in him any semblance of hatred of others, even those working the most diligently to unseat him or the leaders of our strongest and most threatening enemies. Oh, he has certainly been accused but the evidence to support the accusations has not been there. I have been extremely impressed by those assembled around him, friends, family members and work associates. I just don’t see hatred emanating from that source.

    I have concluded that the remainder of the elite governing much of this nation and its subsidiary units are infected by an evil that could cost the American people their freedom as individuals. I see hatred and an absence of patriotism.

    And hatred is a fundamental characteristic of evil.

    • #106
  17. Chris Oler Coolidge
    Chris Oler
    @ChrisO

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    I’ve said before and I still say it: this is often asserted but rarely true.

    I don’t think I can really judge that, or how it feels to sit seething for five years. You’re right, Skip, my reaction would be a bit different, and I’m glad you brought it up, though I think it still may be disappointing from your perspective. 

    I saw the Trump photo and I thought, “Huh.” As in, “That’s kind of odd.” If it were Biden fan gear I’d think, “That’s a shame.”

    But it’s not, really, is it? Either way it’s someone who was able to participate in a rally to support who they wanted, it’s our Bill of Rights at work. I let my perceptions of Biden affect my perceptions of the person in the (hypothetical) photo, and that isn’t fair to the person.

    • #107
  18. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    Your premise is false. NeverTrumpers are viewed as attempting or supporting attempts to unseat a duly elected President of the United States. Some well-funded political campaign organizations make this point clearly.  That has nothing to do with the concept of loyalty to Trump. It does reflect disloyalty to America. There has never been a shred of evidence that such efforts against President Trump had merit.

    • #108
  19. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    Your premise is false. NeverTrumpers are viewed as attempting or supporting attempts to unseat a duly elected President of the United States. Some well-funded political campaign organizations make this point clearly. That has nothing to do with the concept of loyalty to Trump. It does reflect disloyalty to America. There has never been a shred of evidence that such efforts against President Trump had merit.

    Hardly.  Time and again I’ve witness people here and elsewhere criticizing Trump, and being told that just for uttering criticisms (which were often dismissed as false, based on liberal propaganda, were outright lies, etc.) such people were revealing themselves as secret Nevers.  Quite often these people were, such as myself, Trump voters who nonetheless found fault with things that Trump did or said, or failed entirely to do.  For merely voicing our concerns, we were somehow traitors trying to unseat him?  

    • #109
  20. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    It can be done. But not by go-along-to-get-along’ers. It will take genuine conservative ideas, understanding of and belief in conservative philosophy to articulate these themes to America, and most importantly, the guts to fight for them AND implement them.

    It also takes people who understand that a huge part of politics is negotiation and bargaining. Reagan made trade-offs to get what he wanted. So did Newt. There are folks in the Democratic party who can be persuaded on various issues to help out – find them and work with them.

    You find them first and tell us who they are. All “Moderate” Democrats have been run out of that party.

    Could be.   But do not look for, do not find.

    • #110
  21. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    Your premise is false. NeverTrumpers are viewed as attempting or supporting attempts to unseat a duly elected President of the United States. Some well-funded political campaign organizations make this point clearly. That has nothing to do with the concept of loyalty to Trump. It does reflect disloyalty to America. There has never been a shred of evidence that such efforts against President Trump had merit.

    Hardly. Time and again I’ve witness people here and elsewhere criticizing Trump, and being told that just for uttering criticisms (which were often dismissed as false, based on liberal propaganda, were outright lies, etc.) such people were revealing themselves as secret Nevers. Quite often these people were, such as myself, Trump voters who nonetheless found fault with things that Trump did or said, or failed entirely to do. For merely voicing our concerns, we were somehow traitors trying to unseat him?

    Who? Not that it really matters because you are having a conversation with specific people here. Have these specific people on this thread done that?

    • #111
  22. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Chris Oler (View Comment):

    Bucknelldad: that is historically unfamiliar territory for a party that has always been, during its most successful days, an agenda driven party

    I’m confused, when was this? Abolition?

    During Reagan. Reagan was an actual conservative, not just someone who played one on tv. There was an affirmative agenda of (1) entrepreneurial economics. Getting government out of the way of the US economy. (2) Strident anti Communism. (3). Strong national Defense. On that agenda Reagan won re-election by a landslide of historic proportions.

    Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America was introduced just weeks prior to the 1994 Congressional elections and resulted in the GOP gaining 54 House seats and 9 Senate seats – flipping control of both Houses.

    It can be done. But not by go-along-to-get-along’ers. It will take genuine conservative ideas, understanding of and belief in conservative philosophy to articulate these themes to America, and most importantly, the guts to fight for them AND implement them.

    Reagan was solely interested in winning the Cold War and he let the Democrat Congress spend if they let him win it. He was also duped into amnesty.

    And win it he did.    And rescued the American economy, crushed inflation, and renewed the American military.    I’m not sure ‘duped’ is quite the right word.   He believed that, on immigration, Congress world deliver their Pro Quo for his Quid.  He was betrayed, by both GOPe and Dems alike.   He freely admired it was his biggest mistake.  

    • #112
  23. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    Your premise is false. NeverTrumpers are viewed as attempting or supporting attempts to unseat a duly elected President of the United States. Some well-funded political campaign organizations make this point clearly. That has nothing to do with the concept of loyalty to Trump. It does reflect disloyalty to America. There has never been a shred of evidence that such efforts against President Trump had merit.

    Hardly. Time and again I’ve witness people here and elsewhere criticizing Trump, and being told that just for uttering criticisms (which were often dismissed as false, based on liberal propaganda, were outright lies, etc.) such people were revealing themselves as secret Nevers. Quite often these people were, such as myself, Trump voters who nonetheless found fault with things that Trump did or said, or failed entirely to do. For merely voicing our concerns, we were somehow traitors trying to unseat him?

    I’m sure you must have plenty of examples.  How about pointing some out?

    • #113
  24. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Chris Oler (View Comment):

    Bucknelldad: that is historically unfamiliar territory for a party that has always been, during its most successful days, an agenda driven party

    I’m confused, when was this? Abolition?

    During Reagan. Reagan was an actual conservative, not just someone who played one on tv. There was an affirmative agenda of (1) entrepreneurial economics. Getting government out of the way of the US economy. (2) Strident anti Communism. (3). Strong national Defense. On that agenda Reagan won re-election by a landslide of historic proportions.

    Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America was introduced just weeks prior to the 1994 Congressional elections and resulted in the GOP gaining 54 House seats and 9 Senate seats – flipping control of both Houses.

    It can be done. But not by go-along-to-get-along’ers. It will take genuine conservative ideas, understanding of and belief in conservative philosophy to articulate these themes to America, and most importantly, the guts to fight for them AND implement them.

    Reagan was solely interested in winning the Cold War and he let the Democrat Congress spend if they let him win it. He was also duped into amnesty.

    And win it he did. And rescued the American economy, crushed inflation, and renewed the American military. I’m not sure ‘duped’ is quite the right word. He believed that, on immigration, Congress world deliver their Pro Quo for his Quid. He was betrayed, by both GOPe and Dems alike. He freely admired it was his biggest mistake.

    Jimmy Carter to his credit appointed Volker.  Reagan to his credit kept him.

    • #114
  25. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’m not a mind-reader so I don’t know if the guy is praying to Trump or for Trump. Nothing wrong with the latter; everything wrong with the former.

    What if he is just giving thanks that we had Trump these 4 years, is that allowed?

    What if he was draped in a Biden flag? Or an Obama flag?

    One last thing on this Skip: it’s really amazing to me that you seem to think that just by changing the name printed on the flag that we all would suddenly join you in declaring this as obvious sacrilege. The assumptions required for you to think that are quite unreasonable and more than a little insulting.

    After 5 years (presidency plus the 2016 primary season) of seeing people here and elsewhere judge the statements of others based on their perceived or admitted loyalty to Trump (oh, great, another post by X, a NeverTrump), or judging actions by whether they were done by Right or Left, or affected Right or Left, my question remains a fair one.

    Your premise is false. NeverTrumpers are viewed as attempting or supporting attempts to unseat a duly elected President of the United States. Some well-funded political campaign organizations make this point clearly. That has nothing to do with the concept of loyalty to Trump. It does reflect disloyalty to America. There has never been a shred of evidence that such efforts against President Trump had merit.

    Hardly. Time and again I’ve witness people here and elsewhere criticizing Trump, and being told that just for uttering criticisms (which were often dismissed as false, based on liberal propaganda, were outright lies, etc.) such people were revealing themselves as secret Nevers. Quite often these people were, such as myself, Trump voters who nonetheless found fault with things that Trump did or said, or failed entirely to do. For merely voicing our concerns, we were somehow traitors trying to unseat him?

    Who? Not that it really matters because you are having a conversation with specific people here. Have these specific people on this thread done that?

    I have been in conversations where these kinds of points were discussed, notably with @garyrobbins but my support for Trump as POTUS has never been one of personal loyalty. That is just not how I allocate my political support. Why would I do that? So, then, why would I use personal loyalty in considering someone else’s support or non-support? Any criticisms I would have of the positions of others are going to be based on other factors, one of the major ones being all the good things he delivered that we would not likely have gotten from others.

    • #115
  26. JamesSalerno Inactive
    JamesSalerno
    @JamesSalerno

    The establishment GOP has always been a conservative party in rhetoric only.

    • #116
  27. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    The establishment GOP has always been a conservative party in rhetoric only.

    The Republican establishment behavior now exactly confirms in all respects why we got Trump in 2016. “Go along to get along” is the principle by which they operate and they don’t need to be in power for that. If they happen to get control of the Senate, Mitch McConnell is the perfect master to keep things running in line with the principle. When Trump won the Presidency things became more dicey for the Republicans and they had to rely more on the administrative bureaucracy to keep people and things in line.

    • #117
  28. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Bucknelldad: The Republican Party has become an increasingly personality-driven party. It is the party not known widely for its successful policies and actions over the past four years, but as “The Party of Trump.”

    When you ay increasingly, I think that’s exaggerated.  It’s been only for these four years of Trump.  

    Where do we go?  (1) The cult of Trump has to end.  (2) We have the Trump agenda that has proven popular and successful.  (3) We are the opposition party for the next two years, and then we see if we take one or both of the two Houses of Congress.  (4) We have a primary where we unify around a candidate.  Who that candidate is we’ll have to see.  There are some good ones out there.  None thank God which will carry a cult status.

    While Trump isn’t going away – Democrats hope he doesn’t, and fully intend for him to serve as an albatross around GOP necks the next four years – there is no doubt that Republicans had successes at the local, state, and US House level in 2020.

    I don’t think it will work.  The damage was because of Trump personally.  I don’t think the smearing of Republicans with Trump will work.  His personality is too distinct.  Distancing one from the person while keeping the message does not seem that difficult.  Of course Trump will step on the GOP’s message.  That dynamic will need to be worked out.  Republicans need to adopt some form of “there is that crazy uncle out of the attic again.”  

    • #118
  29. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    The establishment GOP has always been a conservative party in rhetoric only.

    Liz Cheney is teaching us that.  I fear they will destroy the party as such and we will have to start from scratch.

    • #119
  30. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Flicker (View Comment):
    I think that overall the Capitol protesters entering the Capitol is just one of many excuses the Left would have used. Seriously, but exaggeratedly, Trump could have spit on the side-walk (covid, you know) and the response would have been the same. There is absolutely no reasonable and rational interpretation of the Capitol breach that would in any wall call for the vehemence, the unconstitutional response, and the evil that the Left is promulgating now.

    Yeah, but if only he had just spit on the sidewalk or done something innocuous he would have been defendable.  What he did is not defendable.  No one of note is defending him.  This evening I saw Marc Thiessen, a long time Trump defender, say on Fox that Trump had committed an impeachable offense.  In fact he’s got a column out: “Pelosi is playing politics with impeachment, but Trump committed an impeachable offense”  If you want the agenda to go forward, Trump needs to fade away after January 20th.

    Edit: Fixed your quote Flicker. I should have the correct one now.  @flicker

    • #120
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.