When Giants Fall: What I Learned from the Ravi Zacharias Failure

 

Ravi Zacharias was a Christian apologist who died last year. Since he died, allegations of sexual misconduct emerged. The allegations were confirmed. What sets this story apart from the endless stream of fallen Christian leaders is what Mr. Zacharias meant to so many who found his words and ministry to be a lifeboat for faith heading for shipwreck.

People come into the church for many reasons. Some are born there and embrace the faith of their family. Others are stirred emotionally, feeling in a crisis experience the presence and healing of God. Others, like myself, was presented a gospel tract and prayed the prayer at the end. Still others came for the children’s programs, cool music, friends, and coffee and just decided to stay.

For many, however, a naive faith is not enough. Questions arise and one has to face the nagging question: Are the claims of Christianity really true? Not just true for me. Not just “my truth.” But really true as in historically true. As in rationally true. As in (what Francis Shaffer used to say) true Truth?

This is where Mr. Zacharias shined – in presenting a rational defense of the faith. Further, he didn’t, like many apologetic ministries, treat people like brains on a stick. He had a way of telling a story that drove the truth home. The truth was not merely right. It was also compelling and beautiful.

After he died of cancer, we mourned the loss of a great asset and teacher.

But then we heard some news. He co-owned a massage spa. And in that massage spa, reports were made that he, well, did things that one might do in an Asian massage – especially those that are not strictly regulated.

In December, his ministry confirmed the reports were true and implied that it was even worse than had been stated.

People reacted as you would expect – anger, dismay, condemnation and hurt.  His actions were deemed wicked and hypocritical.  All this is fair game.  I never met the man and only read a couple of his books and watched a few of his videos but like many in conservative church circles, I felt the loss.

Without taking away the legitimate moral outrage and hurt, there is a lesson driven home to me.

The world view of Christians says the fundamental problem of men and women is sin – a transgression of God’s moral vision for our lives.  Sin is not merely a legal problem such as owing a traffic ticket.  Rather, it affects and changes us.  It corrupts us.  It gets into our thinking, disorders our affections, and helps us believe things that are not true.

As a sin grows, it becomes an attachment.  Even further, it becomes an addiction.

The difference between a mere sin or transgression and an addiction is that an addiction is practically impossible to break free from without someone else’s help.  Our minds are too wrapped up in the resentments, fears, and false narratives that drive them to think our way out on our own.  We can’t possibly ascertain health when our own captive mind is willing to risk everything valuable in order to obtain a prize that is, in fact, ravaging our lives and leading us further into misery.

But where do we go for help?  Our spouse?  I don’t think so.  Our Sunday School?  Not likely.  Our secular coworkers?  They might be using hook up apps at night themselves.

I’ve often joked that when pastors give sermons about addiction and compulsive sins they are like the Microsoft Help text—100% accurate but 100% useless.  It isn’t that they are wrong when they point out the chapter and verses in the Bible that condemn illicit sex outside of marriage.  But Mr. Zacharias didn’t have a Bible knowledge deficiency.  He knew that based on Jesus’ sexual ethic what he was doing was absolutely wrong.  In fact, he spoke on moral character and consistency many times.

What Mr. Zacharias couldn’t figure out is where he could go to get help for himself.  How he can break the cycle.  How he can stop telling himself lies and believing them.  Does a celebrity evangelist show up at a local 12-step meeting?  Who does he have to confess to that would be confidential and could actually help?  The seemingly easiest path, especially for shame-based sins, is to continue in the life-sucking double-life of secrecy hoping that one day it will magically all work out.

But reality ruins a good fantasy.  And often when men get help, it is after they got caught and have lost so much.

The Ravi Zacharias fall and its aftermath is a good splash of cold water in the face for me.  It reminds me that I dare not follow my heart.  That I need to deal with little sins upstream so that they don’t evolve into greater sins and addictions downstream.  That I need to tell on myself to my close, male friends before I do something phenomenally stupid and damaging.

And when I go to bed at night I wonder in our sex-crazed culture, how many guys are out there – church guys, Christians, even Christian leaders – and I pray that the God who came to redeem us can help them find their way to get help.

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  1. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    I really enjoyed reading this post.  You are so right.  One has to curb sin from the earliest moments.  I’m Catholic, so I only briefly had heard of Zacharias.  I did not know about what came out after his passing.  That’s a shame.  

    • #1
  2. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Believing and living in accordance with beliefs are not the same. Sometimes I wonder how often “faith” actually refers more to being faithful to Someone and to our beliefs than it refers to trust and an inner submission to truth. 

    We are not walking computers; not mere machines of logic. We are animal and spiritual beings in which body, emotions, intellect, and will struggle for an ideal balance at any moment. Some people imagine that the intellect must always rule. But is a kiss, a hug, or a handshake an expression of cold logic? The warmth of a loving embrace requires a momentary surrender of logic to passion, even if all elements of humanity remain present and essential. 

    Denying an impulse can be difficult; especially when that impulse satisfies a deep-seated need, like affection, or momentarily raises one out of depression or ennui. Denying an addictive habit is worse. Without its usual fix of pleasure, the body or brain slips into a depressed state. Associations of habit are difficult to forget. And every failure of will threatens to diminish one’s hope of eventual discipline. Justified shame can be over-indulged, stealing the will to better oneself. 

    That said, what alternative is there to responsibility? One must change or seek to the help to change. One must pray for the Lord’s guidance and strength. One must seek companions even when none is wanted because our battles are never only our own. The people we love most are the people we most want to think well of us. Sometimes strangers are easier confidants. 

    We all need help. Prayer is a good beginning… and middle, and end. 

    • #2
  3. David Carroll Thatcher
    David Carroll
    @DavidCarroll

    I knew of Ravi Zacharias and listened to some of his messages.  I did not know about the sexual improprieties until this post.  

    There is one consistent Christian message: we are all sinners.  Our goal is to strive to overcome sin.  Obviously, the striving is a lifelong challenge.  This post was sad news to me, but the sins of the messenger don’t negate the rightfulness of the message, whether it be Zacharias, Swaggart or any of the others who have fallen.

    • #3
  4. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Manny (View Comment):

    I really enjoyed reading this post. You are so right. One has to curb sin from the earliest moments. I’m Catholic, so I only briefly had heard of Zacharias. I did not know about what came out after his passing. That’s a shame.

    Manny – did you hear about Fr. Rutler of the huge church in NY? Any updates about him?? That was shocking. They’re dropping like flies.  There seems to be a lot of armorless clergy who are under attack and a lot to pray about. To the post author – always look up for your answers and the Bible. Human beings are just that.

    • #4
  5. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    The more you focus on God, the more demons will focus on you because you are a treasure and a threat. That’s not an excuse for sin. But, as in any war, one should expect that some of the righteous warriors best leaders will be targeted for turning because what a strategic victory that is for the forces of evil. 

    False accusations also abound. Cardinal Pell was convicted in criminal trial despite absurd contradictions in the prosecution’s evidence. His conviction was later overturned and Pell was freed, but not before he had been slandered and libelled around the world. 

    God alone knows why some good people die in their beds while other saints must endure terrible pains at the hands of evil doers. But at some point we all must endure suffering, recrimination, and isolation so that we can draw closer to Christ as we share His experience in a love waiting for the innocence and final victory of Heaven. 

    • #5
  6. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    David B. Sable: ’ve often joked that when pastors give sermons about addiction and compulsive sins they are like the Microsoft Help text—100% accurate but 100% useless.

    I’m stealing that.

    • #6
  7. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    David B. Sable:

    The world view of Christians says the fundamental problem of men and women is sin – a transgression of God’s moral vision for our lives. Sin is not merely a legal problem such as owing a traffic ticket. Rather, it affects and changes us. It corrupts us. It gets into our thinking, disorders our affections, and helps us believe things that are not true.

    As a sin grows, it becomes an attachment. Even further, it becomes an addiction.

    It is often taught in Eastern Orthodoxy that sin needs to be seen as a disease – one that is chronic and rarely ever cured this side of the grave.

    And you’re right that it is progressive – it starts as a thought, and if that thought be not ignored or kicked aside, but rather contemplated, then it grows into an idea and temptation, and if still not fought off it becomes an action.  Then a habit.  And at last even an addiction.

    Saint Paisius of Mt. Athos put it this way:

    • #7
  8. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    David B. Sable:

    For many, however, a naive faith is not enough. Questions arise and one has to face the nagging question: Is the claims of Christianity really true? Not just true for me. Not just “my truth”. But really true as in historically true. As in rationally true. As in (what Francis Shaffer used to say) true Truth?

    This is where Mr. Zacharias shined – in presenting a rational defense of the faith. Further, he didn’t, like many apologetic ministries, treat people like brains on a stick. He had a way of telling story that drove the truth home. The truth was not merely right. It was also compelling and beautiful.

     

    I’ve often wondered, when folks like Rev. Zacharias fall, if this is perhaps no small part of the problem.  He was a clearly brilliant man, and a gifted speaker and preacher – I’ve watched some of his stuff on Youtube and seen that for myself.

    And yet…

    There is a particular temptation to which I think people like Rev. Zacharias, a pastor I knew personally, and others friends of mine have known, are drawn.  Pride is generally at the root of all sin anyway, but it takes different forms, and so different temptations.  For many in this position, they come to see themselves as “Defending the Faith!”, as though, somehow, without their preaching, faith would fail.  The more public the role, the greater the temptation – and this is not an unreasonable worry on their part, for any leader (teacher, manager, business owner, preacher, officer) will tell you how acutely aware they are that others’ have come to rely on their judgement and guidance.  The trap is, however, comes when such leaders see themselves as so necessary that they also become convinced others aren’t as able or committed, or that others could not share the burden they bear, and that leads to the fall – unwilling to seek help, unable to admit others could help, they indulge in a temptation first as stress relief, and justify it because it helps them better perform their leadership role.  And they keep justifying it, even as the shame of it grows, because in their pride they also believe no one else could survive if they themselves, as a leader, fell.  Then they’re trapped.

    It need not always be sex.  For some it’s the bottle.  For some it’s drugs.  Some abuse their spouses or children.  Some gamble.  Some simply consume themselves in righteous anger and wither and die from the inside out.

    If all we see is the sex and the scandal, we miss all that.  But if you’re not tempted that particular way be grateful, just watch for what you are tempted by.  It’s no virtue to resist something that’s no temptation for you anyway.

    There but for the grace of God…

    • #8
  9. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    The more you focus on God, the more demons will focus on you because you are a treasure and a threat. That’s not an excuse for sin. But, as in any war, one should expect that some of the righteous warriors best leaders will be targeted for turning because what a strategic victory that is for the forces of evil.

    False accusations also abound. Cardinal Pell was convicted in criminal trial despite absurd contradictions in the prosecution’s evidence. His conviction was later overturned and Pell was freed, but not before he had been slandered and libelled around the world.

    God alone knows why some good people die in their beds while other saints must endure terrible pains at the hands of evil doers. But at some point we all must endure suffering, recrimination, and isolation so that we can draw closer to Christ as we share His experience in a love waiting for the innocence and final victory of Heaven.

    There’s a story I heard recently.  A particular archimandrite (monk-priest) was complaining to his own confessor about all the people coming to confession with sexual sins – he was being very judgmental, having never really been tempted that way himself.  Until he was – some attractive young woman came into his church and his eyes were drawn to her.  In the days that followed his mind kept turning to her, and he began to fantasize.  When it dawned on him, finally, what temptation he was unwittingly indulging (one he had been very stern on before) he suddenly understood exactly what his own parishioners had gone through.  His repentance from taught him much needed empathy for his parishioners.

    We don’t always know why we suffer, but if we use it aright it can draw us closer to Christ.

    • #9
  10. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Lust is a sin I have always struggled with. Like many if not all sins, lust is a corruption of goodness. The eyes see something good. The heart longs for something good. And evil tempts us to seize upon that good in a selfish, ugly, cheap and unfulfilling manner. 

    I’m a gifted photographer, musician, and generally an artist. Recognition of beauty and the means to capture or express it is part of what the Lord has given me to share. It’s not coincidental, I think, that the nature of my temptations are linked to the nature of my gifts and passions. 

    Perhaps that focus on beauty is a reason preachers often succumb to sexual sins. Or perhaps it is the extraordinary opportunities for sin provided by individuals’ confidence in them and need of them. Perhaps fame encourages a sort of loneliness or want of intimacy amid so many fleeting interactions and shallow attention.

    Whatever the reasons, I believe each person is tempted to particular sins in ways that reflect one’s individual personality and individual relationship with God. The enemy strives to separate us and fallen angels are not bound by the limitations of human vision. Knowing oneself helps one to defend against those particular temptations.

    • #10
  11. David B. Sable Inactive
    David B. Sable
    @DavidSable

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    David B. Sable:

    The world view of Christians says the fundamental problem of men and women is sin – a transgression of God’s moral vision for our lives. Sin is not merely a legal problem such as owing a traffic ticket. Rather, it affects and changes us. It corrupts us. It gets into our thinking, disorders our affections, and helps us believe things that are not true.

    As a sin grows, it becomes an attachment. Even further, it becomes an addiction.

    It is often taught in Eastern Orthodoxy that sin needs to be seen as a disease – one that is chronic and rarely ever cured this side of the grave.

    And you’re right that it is progressive – it starts as a thought, and if that thought be not ignored or kicked aside, but rather contemplated, then it grows into an idea and temptation, and if still not fought off it becomes an action. Then a habit. And at last even an addiction.

    Saint Paisius of Mt. Athos put it this way:

    Skipsul:  An Orthodox Christian friend recommended the book Surprised by Christ by James Bernstein.  I read it because of his background in the Jesus movement and other things of that period I resonated with . It was a combo biography and presentation of Orthodoxy over against (in his view) Catholicism and the various permutations of Protestantism/Evangelicalism.  I was very taken with his emphasis of seeing sin in a therapeutic way and not simply a legal way.  It seems more compatible with some aspects of 12-step recovery than other Christian traditions.

    • #11
  12. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    David B. Sable (View Comment):

    Skipsul: An Orthodox Christian friend recommended the book Surprised by Christ by James Bernstein. I read it because of his background in the Jesus movement and other things of that period I resonated with . It was a combo biography and presentation of Orthodoxy over against (in his view) Catholicism and the various permutations of Protestantism/Evangelicalism. I was very taken with his emphasis of seeing sin in a therapeutic way and not simply a legal way. It seems more compatible with some aspects of 12-step recovery than other Christian traditions.

    I reviewed the book here myself a few years ago.  It’s a great one:

    https://ricochet.com/588043/archives/surprised-by-christ-a-book-review/

    My own priest once served as a Deacon under Fr. Bernstein (it’s a small world).

     

    • #12
  13. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I really enjoyed reading this post. You are so right. One has to curb sin from the earliest moments. I’m Catholic, so I only briefly had heard of Zacharias. I did not know about what came out after his passing. That’s a shame.

    Manny – did you hear about Fr. Rutler of the huge church in NY? Any updates about him?? That was shocking. They’re dropping like flies. There seems to be a lot of armorless clergy who are under attack and a lot to pray about. To the post author – always look up for your answers and the Bible. Human beings are just that.

    Yes I did hear of that.  I have not seen an update.  I looked at the claims when it happened and I don’t believe them.  They seemed fraudulent.  But I wait to hear more.

    • #13
  14. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    It is often taught in Eastern Orthodoxy that sin needs to be seen as a disease – one that is chronic and rarely ever cured this side of the grave.

    That’s not just Eastern Orthodox.  The whole Judeo-Christian tradition speaks of that.  Modernist thought may have pushed it out of the public square but all traditions see sin as a disease.

    • #14
  15. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Ravi Zacharias was not the first pastor to be exposed as living a double life.  In November 2006 Ted Haggard was exposed as having a relationship with a male prostitute.  Haggard has paid this prostitute for sex for three years and used crystal methamphetamine.  He served as President of the National Association of Evangelicals from 2003 through November 2006.

    The idea that the Holy Spirit is involved in the lives of Christians is often mentioned belief in Christian thought.  Clearly the Holy Spirit was not working for Ted Haggard.  Perhaps the Holy Spirit was not at work with Ravi Zacharias either.

    Tim Sledge was once a pastor at a megachurch.  During his long career as a pastor Sledge began noticing what he called, “exceptions to the rule of faith.”

    “Like most young ministers, I was stubbornly idealistic.  So, whenever I saw or experienced something, anything, that I couldn’t explain and that might be a cause for doubting my beliefs, I filed it away – like a legal brief containing evidence that needed to be disproved.  I placed it in a back-of-mind mental storage spot for exceptions to the rule of faith.”

    Sledge noticed that

    “Born-again believers could ignore outsiders who walked into a Baptist Student Union building designed to be a place for reaching out.  Born-again believers could be jealous and insecure . . .

    Born-again believers could become alcoholics who pretended faith had cured their addiction.  Born-again believers might decide a church camp was a good place to cruise for sex.”

    Eventually, over time, the exceptions to the rule of faith piled up so significantly for pastor Tim Sledge that he lost his faith completely.

    There are lots of members of the Clergy project.  These are pastors who no longer believe what they are preaching, but they have not yet been trained in doing anything other than preaching and can’t make a career change or they don’t want to be criticized by their friends, family and congregants for apostasy.  So, they continue preaching as if they still believe.

    • #15
  16. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    There are lots of members of the Clergy project. These are pastors who no longer believe what they are preaching, but they have not yet been trained in doing anything other than preaching and can’t make a career change or they don’t want to be criticized by their friends, family and congregants for apostasy. So, they continue preaching as if they still believe.

    I do so wish they would have found Orthodoxy instead.  You’ll never hear “born again” there, nor will you ever hear “once saved, always saved”, because anyone can certainly turn their backs and walk away.  And no one should ever be so secure as to think his salvation guaranteed – anyone can fall, anyone can fail, and the more secure you think you are the worse your fall will be.  You’ll never hear that somehow you’re expected to be victorious over your own sins in this life (don’t give up though).  Failures happen, but you get up and struggle again.  That’s not to say you don’t hear about corrupt clergy, or horrible abuse long standing and hidden – you can find that anywhere people are – but that the first place to watch for it is in yourself.

    Every liturgy, before receiving communion, we all recite a prayer that beings:

    I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that thou art truly the Christ, the son of the living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

     

    • #16
  17. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Manny (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    It is often taught in Eastern Orthodoxy that sin needs to be seen as a disease – one that is chronic and rarely ever cured this side of the grave.

    That’s not just Eastern Orthodox. The whole Judeo-Christian tradition speaks of that. Modernist thought may have pushed it out of the public square but all traditions see sin as a disease.

    True, but so often it is treated in legalistic terms, like a crime that needs to be adjudicated, rather than a malady that needs healed.

    • #17
  18. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    “You will know them by their fruits.” We can’t ignore grave sins in the lives of teachers and leaders. 

    I was a fan of the Legion of Christ for a while. The order helped to renew orthodoxy among young Christians and made a focus of evangelizing in the centers of media culture, like New York City and Los Angeles. I met many Legionaries when I was invited to see Pope Benedict XVI with them.

    But its founder, Father Maciel, was discovered to have carried on affairs. Pope Benedict XVI required a series of steps to force the order to introspection and amends. The order still produces some good priests today. But I have lost focus on it and could never bring myself to read Father Maciel’s book on faith. 

    • #18
  19. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    David B. Sable (View Comment):

    Skipsul: An Orthodox Christian friend recommended the book Surprised by Christ by James Bernstein. I read it because of his background in the Jesus movement and other things of that period I resonated with . It was a combo biography and presentation of Orthodoxy over against (in his view) Catholicism and the various permutations of Protestantism/Evangelicalism. I was very taken with his emphasis of seeing sin in a therapeutic way and not simply a legal way. It seems more compatible with some aspects of 12-step recovery than other Christian traditions.

    I reviewed the book here myself a few years ago. It’s a great one:

    https://ricochet.com/588043/archives/surprised-by-christ-a-book-review/

    My own priest once served as a Deacon under Fr. Bernstein (it’s a small world).

    I once had a lively debate with a fellow Catholic and practicing psychologist about what the Church should or should not learn from AA’s 12-step program. He emphasized the good results. But I prioritize truth and wasn’t entirely comfortable with calling alcoholism a disease. 

    Catholics (practicing Catholics, anyway) are notoriously self-critical. My psychologist friend said this was proved in his therapy sessions, in which Catholics inordinately struggled with shame. 

    The presentation of alcohol addiction as a disease helps alcoholics to cut themselves some slack and not let shame hold them down in depression. But, I argued, if you have sinned, you must face the truth however much it hurts. You should be ashamed… but also accept Christ’s loving mercy, love yourself, and hope in redemption. 

    I still believe truth cannot be abandoned for results. But I admit there is a pragmatic element that merits attention. The right emphasis can be hard to find. 

    • #19
  20. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen
    @DuaneOyen

    Ravi Zacharias performed an invaluable function, an was brought down by pride via sex- which is perhaps the most common route to a fall.  And the stronger the ministry, the greater the satanic forces arrayed against it.

    It is also a sign of such pride to cluck cluck at how terrible all those other people are; all those humans saved by grace, who also fall.  People like Paul and Peter, for example.  Deny Christ?  Forbid it, I never will… oops.

    If you read David French these days, everything he writes ends up discussing either hypocritical evangelists in the form of Jerry Falwell Jr (he is always the example) and Donald Trump.  Judgmental diatribes from Mt. Sinai, as though he alone lacks a beam when pointing out motes (I’ll stop there because I have plenty of beams).  

    But God does not need any of us, and  He is not deceived about the virtues or inherent merit of any of us.  His kingdom will go on no matter what kind of hash we make off our piece of it- and His grace is sufficient to overcome all of our shortcomings.

    • #20
  21. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Tevye : …. as King David said, “I am slow of speech, and slow of tongue.”

    Mendel : That was also Moses.

    Tevye : For a man who was slow of tongue, he talked a lot.

    • #21
  22. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    There are lots of members of the Clergy project. These are pastors who no longer believe what they are preaching, but they have not yet been trained in doing anything other than preaching and can’t make a career change or they don’t want to be criticized by their friends, family and congregants for apostasy. So, they continue preaching as if they still believe.

    I do so wish they would have found Orthodoxy instead. You’ll never hear “born again” there, nor will you ever hear “once saved, always saved”, because anyone can certainly turn their backs and walk away. And no one should ever be so secure as to think his salvation guaranteed – anyone can fall, anyone can fail, and the more secure you think you are the worse your fall will be. You’ll never hear that somehow you’re expected to be victorious over your own sins in this life (don’t give up though). Failures happen, but you get up and struggle again. That’s not to say you don’t hear about corrupt clergy, or horrible abuse long standing and hidden – you can find that anywhere people are – but that the first place to watch for it is in yourself.

    Every liturgy, before receiving communion, we all recite a prayer that beings:

    I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that thou art truly the Christ, the son of the living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

    I hold to a naturalistic worldview.  Human beings evolved from less intelligent animals and retain lots of evolutionary baggage, some good and some bad.  In my opinion, this explains why human beings fail so often. 

    I was in a discussion with a group of Christians about a week ago.  We were talking about the problem of evil.  I was asked why there is so much evil-sin in the world.  I answered, “Because there is no one in charge of the world.  If the world is just matter in motion, that explains the suffering and malevolence we observe.”

    But then I was asked about the positive things we notice in this world.  I said, “So, you are asking me to explain the problem of good, instead of the problem of evil?”  My Christian respondent said, “Sure.  That’s one way to put it.”  Again, I think evolution can account for the good too.  But I am not an evolutionary biologist.  I don’t know all the details and even an evolutionary biologist can’t account for everything.  Science has uncovered much information, but no where near all.

    My answer is unsatisfying to many.  But I think it’s a helpful explanation.  

    • #22
  23. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    The presentation of alcohol addiction as a disease helps alcoholics to cut themselves some slack and not let shame hold them down in depression. But, I argued, if you have sinned, you must face the truth however much it hurts. You should be ashamed… but also accept Christ’s loving mercy, love yourself, and hope in redemption. 

    Father Stephen Freeman has written extensively on the matter of shame, both of healthy and unhealthy types.  Shame, if it hinders repentance, is not healthy.  

    It is a common definition that the emotion of shame is about “who I am.” It centers in feelings of exposure, unworthiness, and damaged identity. Guilt, they say, is about “what I have done.” There are ways to deal with guilt – but shame, if it is actually a matter of “who I am,” runs deep. It is little wonder that the wounds of shame can be toxic. Self-loathing and related pain can so cripple an individual that life becomes nearly impossible. The answer to the question, “Who am I,” is not just important, it is primary.

    A difficult aspect of our identity is that it is not always stable. We are not born into the world with a strong identity. We are helpless, unable to fend for ourselves. Our sense of well-being and comfort utterly depends on those around us. If parents neglect a child, what is internalized is not a sense of “I have lousy parents.” Rather, if the child survives, what is felt is, “I wasn’t worth the bother.” A deep internal shame will make life difficult and will manifest itself in a wide variety of damaged forms.

    One of the pernicious notions of individualism is its failure to understand that health and well-being are at least as social as they are personal. There are forms of mental illness that are biological in origin. However, the bulk of the things that poison our lives flow out of the failures within our social experience. Chief among those failures are the injuries caused by the experience of shame.

    https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2019/07/02/shame-and-the-modern-identity/

    • #23
  24. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    I still believe truth cannot be abandoned for results. But I admit there is a pragmatic element that merits attention. The right emphasis can be hard to find. 

    Hank Hannegraff, who is a noted Christian radio host and prolific writer, said his mantra used to be “The Truth Matters.”  And that was the end of that – Truth mattered above all else.  He was chastised for this by a friend who quipped back “Life matters more.”  Hank has said it took him years and years to finally understand that – that a narrow insistence on truth can actually be damaging and merciless.  You won’t, for instance, argue anyone else into the Kingdom by shouting facts at them.

    • #24
  25. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    I still believe truth cannot be abandoned for results. But I admit there is a pragmatic element that merits attention. The right emphasis can be hard to find.

    Hank Hannegraff, who is a noted Christian radio host and prolific writer, said his mantra used to be “The Truth Matters.” And that was the end of that – Truth mattered above all else. He was chastised for this by a friend who quipped back “Life matters more.” Hank has said it took him years and years to finally understand that – that a narrow insistence on truth can actually be damaging and merciless. You won’t, for instance, argue anyone else into the Kingdom by shouting facts at them.

    Yes, the Law condemns us, but His mercy saves us.

    However, Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” Truth and life, truth and compassion, truth and love are inseparable. The Law is the way of Love. It is the shape, the definition of Christ’s will in relation to our fallen world. The “rules” show us how to love each other. 

    There are good reasons we distinguish, ideally, between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law in regard to civil ethics. Morals are general principles. Ethics try to prudently apply those principles to specific circumstances. Morals are less flexible and reliant on prudential judgment than ethics. 

    The finer details of love are less clear. Even the holiest saints spend a lifetime learning how to love well. But objective truth is always relevant, as must be a desire to heal divisions and be reunited with those who trespass against us.

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  26. Bill Berg Coolidge
    Bill Berg
    @Bill Berg

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    Ravi Zacharias performed an invaluable function, an was brought down by pride via sex- which is perhaps the most common route to a fall. And the stronger the ministry, the greater the satanic forces arrayed against it.

    It is also a sign of such pride to cluck cluck at how terrible all those other people are; all those humans saved by grace, who also fall. People like Paul and Peter, for example. Deny Christ? Forbid it, I never will… oops.

    If you read David French these days, everything he writes ends up discussing either hypocritical evangelists in the form of Jerry Falwell Jr (he is always the example) and Donald Trump. Judgmental diatribes from Mt. Sinai, as though he alone lacks a beam when pointing out motes (I’ll stop there because I have plenty of beams).

    But God does not need any of us, and He is not deceived about the virtues or inherent merit of any of us. His kingdom will go on no matter what kind of hash we make off our piece of it- and His grace is sufficient to overcome all of our shortcomings.

    Pride is the root — “you shall have no other gods before me”, and there we are. We are our favorite god. “I felt”. “I thought”, “I followed my heart” (the one that is “is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

    Yes, David French appears to have succumbed to pride, and judgement is not mine, only (poor) discernment. I’ve ceased listening to French because all I see from him seems to be driven by pride. That is my discernment — it may well be wrong. 

    I know nothing about Ravi, and as a Confessional Lutheran, I’m not that interested. Peter, who walked with Christ, denied him three times, and he was forgiven. I am the chief of sinners. My faith hasn’t moved any needles, let alone mountains. My less than a  mustard seed faith is that Christ forgives me. 

    Whatever Ravi did, Christ can cover it in his blood as he covers Peter, and I pray me. 

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