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Will There Ultimately be Justice?
I’m one of those dinosaurs who actually cares about the truth. I despise people who lie, and especially people who lie and think there’s nothing wrong with it.
For a long time, my friends have told me that in politics, lying is baked in the cake. I refuse to accept that lying must be accepted in politics, but I guess I have to expect that there are people who say it’s a necessary evil.
But when it comes to the media, the lying and distortions are so monumental that I can’t help wondering how those people sleep at night. Do they even try to explain their actions to others? Do they believe that Republicans really are evil and they deserve to be punished and ousted from office? And most of all, I wonder if they believe that acting on those beliefs is justified through any means necessary?
How do they explain their actions to their children?
Their decisions would mean that they think that their agenda is more important than truth. Their actions are necessary even if they destroy the lives of innocent people. They would justify their behavior because they have their own moral code, conveniently supported by moral relativism.
I wonder if any of those “journalists” are religious? Do they believe in G-d? Do they think there will be any consequences for their behavior which would be judged sinful in the eyes in G-d?
Or do they think there is no G-d?
Or do they believe that they are superior to G-d?
Or that secretly they actually are G-d?
In my own life, I don’t focus on consequences in the afterlife; I’m most concerned with doing the right thing in this life, with being an honorable person to those whose lives I touch, and hope the rest will take care of itself.
But I want to believe, have to believe, in accountability for malicious acts.
And I hope that G-d will see the need for ultimate justice, either on earth or in heaven, for those in the media who lied or distorted information or destroyed the lives of others.
Published in Religion & Philosophy
They believe they are moral and just. They are told so and given a pat on the head for doing others’ bidding. That is their main desire, I think. It’s not just the press.
I’m uncertain where it comes from, but the desire for an aristocracy seems strong. The funny thing is, the press doesn’t envision themselves at the top, but as some privileged middle level. In a future hierarchy, they aim for the middle. Who does that?
But, if you believe in elitism, I suppose you must believe there are others better than you (well, some might), and the press certainly seems to have that mentality. This isn’t the socialist impulse, they really do look at a certain subset as their betters.
There is an aspect of this that is anti-meritocratic, and we certainly have seen the idea of merit attacked in recent years. That’s a slightly different discussion.
Fascinating observation, Chris. I’m thinking the desire for aristocracy may be a factor. I wonder if people think that an aristocracy is glamorous, like royalty that they can admire. And your comment about the press–I agree with how you characterize them, but like you ask, why would people aspire to the middle? Maybe it’s not being in the middle so much as it means being with colleagues, reminiscent of a time of the hard-hitting reporter who had to avoid aligning with anyone to keep their objectivity, credibility and perspective. Only now, in real life, they are aligned with the ugly elites who will let them kiss their rings, as long as they obey. Need to think about this one more!
From where I sit, it seems pretty obvious. The Kennedy family is the most obvious example of people imprinting this aristocratic impulse on others. Honestly, it’s a mystery to me why Cuomos, Garcettis, and Kennedys get elected.
I guess by elevating others to elite status, it is a way to excuse yourself from striving. They are there, I am here, and it makes sense. Except it doesn’t, and the result is harmful. We’re seeing here and now what happens when an “elite” class thinks only it has the necessary manners, intellect, and ideas to wield power, and also considers themselves beyond accountability.
Nobody ever thinks that they’re on the side of evil. They do what they do because their moral framework demands it, and justifies it.
I assume they won’t be aware of the evil they’re doing, so I don’t expect them to repent. That’s why I hope that ultimately they will experience justice, however that is given out. Ignorance on their part is no excuse.
Maybe it’s just me, but I’m leery of being too eager to mete out justice because too often people are using the term when what they really want is retribution and power. Often mercy and ignorance are better if you can reform the system and change the moral framework, because otherwise you get into never ending wars back and forth.
I’ve tried to limit my references to God recently here on Ricochet, but since you write of God and His justice, let me give what I think is a fairly universal view of the Christian concept of justice. The Holy Scriptures, the Word of God, says that God will not be mocked. It says that everything that’s done is secret will be revealed. He says that vengeance is His. And He says that there is a divine Judgment in the afterlife, beginning more or less upon Messiah Jesus’ return.
God is fundamentally just, it is an immutable part of His character. This is consoling to me a little bit but fearsome to me as a sinner. Sin is breaking the Law. I have broken the Law, and the punishment is death; a spiritual death – permanent abiding spiritual death, not annihilation. Physical death we all know, but both physical and spiritual death is not ceasing to be, but a change of state and status. Spiritual death is at least eternal disapproval and displeasure from God, and includes eternal punishment.
Justice is served by this punishment. Fortunately, Messiah Jesus not only kept the Law but fulfilled it. It is said: And Abraham believed God and it was reckoned as righteousness. When we come to believe Jesus, our Heavenly Father attributes Christ’s fulfillment of the Law to each of us; so God’s requirement for righteousness is fulfilled. And it is said: After 39 sabbaths of years, He will be cut off; and also it is said that they will mourn Him whom they have pierced; and it is said, Cursed is any man who hangs from a tree.
Jesus was willingly cut off, pierced and hung from a tree, and descended into Sheol; and though He never sinned God attributes this death and punishment to anyone who believes in the Christ.
God’s justice will be executed on the ungodly: liars and thieves and adulterers, etc. But God’s justice is fulfilled with the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ for those who believe on Him.
Well, I’m not the one who will decide whether justice is meted out or not; I believe that’s in G-d’s hands, and for that reason I assume it will be just. If G-d decides mercy is more important, I will never know but I trust in Him. I am not optimistic that for the time being, anything will change. I’m not calling for a “war,” only G-d’s responding.
I do agree that when people decide on meting out justice, it can easily be for selfish or inappropriate reasons. If a person is an evil reporter of the news, it’s still not my place to impose justice. I can only stop following that person. I hope this all makes sense.
I believe you know I’m Jewish, so I am still waiting for the Messiah. Also, I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about sin, and instead put my energy into being a good person. I see my relationship as directly with the one G-d. So however a person finds his or her way to G-d, as long as it’s not sinful, I’m for it. (Jews are not interested in converting others.) The tragedy, whether Christian or Jew, is the person who thinks he or she can defy G-d and believe they can justify it, or just ignore the bad things they have done. Those are the people I’m talking about.
I don’t mind people bringing up G-d in my posts (since I obviously started it!) But I generally prefer that we not have theological debates (which you aren’t doing here). Still, just to let anyone know who might be interested (besides you, Flicker), I’m always happy to answer questions about Judaism, with the caveat that I’m still learning!
True that. And there is Psalm 94. I’m sure you know it better than me. It begins:
O LORD, God of vengeance,
God of vengeance, shine forth!
Rise up, O Judge of the earth,
Render recompense to the proud.
How long shall the wicked, O LORD,
How long shall the wicked exult?
They pour forth words, they speak arrogantly;
All who do wickedness vaunt themselves.
They crush Your people, O LORD,
And afflict Your heritage.
And it ends:
But the LORD has been my stronghold,
And my God the rock of my refuge.
He has brought back their wickedness upon them
And will destroy them in their evil;
The LORD our God will destroy them.
Will There Ultimately be Justice?
No. Not in this life.
Therefore, it’s not something to worry about.
Perfect! Thanks, Flicker.
So we’re in agreement! I don’t worry about it. I just try to do the right thing. Although, I wonder sometimes if G-d sees to justice in this life and we just don’t realize it. Jose, if I’m not mistaken you are an atheist, aren’t you? Maybe not . . .
No, not an atheist.
Perplexed, confused, bewildered and unsure, but not an atheist.
Well, we’re all those descriptors at one time or another. I just remember your making some kind of comment on religion way back when, and couldn’t remember what you said. And for a confused dude, you’re a very fine writer with a good heart.
Yes, but we are commanded to do justice. And rebuked when we don’t.
True. I worry about myself, but not others.
You are too kind. Thank you.
But what does that mean, Flicker? I would interpret that to mean that we must ourselves be just; that when we can, we hold people accountable in appropriate ways. I don’t think Jose would disagree. Keep in mind that I was asking G-d to be just in this post.
There are times, however, that we can’t hold others accountable, that we don’t have the authority or power to do so. And as @skipsul said, we must be mindful that our actions are not vengeance (especially when we are not absolutely sure we’re in the right).
I’m not clear on what this means, Jose. Could you clarify?
You expressed the very sentiment of part that I didn’t include in Psalm 94. Verse 9:
So your concerns are shared in good company.
In fact you might like what follows:
10He who chastens the nations, will He not rebuke,
Even He who teaches man knowledge?
11The LORD knows the thoughts of man,
That they are a mere breath.
12Blessed is the man whom You chasten, O LORD,
And whom You teach out of Your law;
13That You may grant him relief from the days of adversity,
Susan, based on a fast scan of the comments already posted, this one will, I fear, be not nearly as astute or thoughtful, but will just represent my own experience after a life at the Bar as a practicing, working, lawyer striving in the Courtrooms of the Judicial System representing real people, most of whom had real problems to be addressed within the prescribed rules of the Law. Having identified the way I spent most of my life, it will undoubtedly sound like I am possessed of an astonishing level of naivete to make the following statement, but I share the belief you started your post with: I, too, despise people who lie, and I had the misfortune of having to deal with some of them, members of both the Bar and the Bench, in the practice of law. In fact, there were times when I was less than diplomatic in telling lawyers to their face that I knew they were lying, conduct which invariably elicited howls of indignation and shock at the very idea that anyone would dare utter such words to a fellow member of the Bar! (It probably goes without saying that I did not make those charges against the lawyers in the Black robes, in the interest of my client(s) and my own License, truth be known.) As to the reason they lied, with what seemed to be such a total lack of self-awareness, the only reason I could ever come up with was that they were that rare breed of human being (one may debate if they are as rare as they were years ago, but that’s for another day) who were utterly amoral, and the best example I could offer of that type of person was a lawyer who wound up as one of the wealthiest lawyers in the State, who would do or say anything whatsoever if it would advance his interest. Another example, this one of the distaff side of the profession (a quaint old word I, in my old school ways, still insist on using), was one who was quick to call others “liars” if they espoused positions opposite to hers; she took no prisoners, and was absolutely ruthless, which I guess is getting close to saying amoral now that I think about it.
Truth was taken much more seriously in my Dad’s time — one might even say, deadly seriously. I wrote about that after being called a “liar” by a lawyer , in a Bar publication, long ago. Sincerely, Jim.
Yes. I was just pointing out that though it can be said that there will be no justice in this life, we are still commanded to seek justice and to do justice, or act justly, with others, and I would suppose that also means calling for justice. Our fallen justice is a shadow of God’s justice, but we are still called to pursue it. And we are rebuked when we don’t.
(Started this a few minutes after you posted, somebody else probably already said this by now.)
I’m with you on this. How many times does G-d have to say “don’t lie”? I’d have thought once was enough. Have never been comfortable with people excusing Rahab’s lie, as if He could not preserve His people by other means.
Trust me, Jim, your comment was outstanding and spot on. It sounds like most of us here share similar values about justice and truth, and I am repeatedly disappointed that others don’t. I can appreciate your description of those people you’ve encountered who are “amoral,” and I’m quite sure you use the term correctly. But can we assume that all of those people in the media are amoral? That would be tough to swallow. Although I’d be willing to consider that they might show aspects of psychopathology (and he’s not media, but I’m thinking of Adam Schiff).
Finally, I was appalled at the thought that you were called a liar by an adversary. I simply can’t imagine someone calling me a liar (since that’s not what I do). I commend your discipline in not attacking the judge or the other guy. There was a time, only a few years ago, where every word but liar was used in challenging a person’s veracity. Those days are long gone. Thanks for weighing in.
In other words, I try to do what’s right and berate myself when I fall short. I don’t spend much time getting worked up about the behavior of other people, especially if I don’t know them and their actions have no effect on my life.
I’m not familiar with that name. Could you enlighten me? Sounds fascinating, Chuck.
I was speaking generically about all humankind.
But more specifically, tradition as I understand it holds that many if not most of the Prophets were murdered by the people. And yet they were spiritually great men and women. This would go along with my thinking that God desires and values justice from His people more that justice to His people.
Sounds pretty wise to me, Jose. Although I try to do less berating of myself and just do better the next time. I’m really good at beating myself up.
Joshua sent spies into Jericho when Israel first entered the Promised Land. Rahab hid the spies in her home, and when the king’s men sought them she responded that they weren’t in her place – she said they left when it got dark. I don’t know where that is in the Mishnah, in the Christian bible it’s found at Joshua chapter 2 (just immediately after the Torah).
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