You Can’t Handle the Truth, or Numbers

 

People are impressed by numbers, especially large numbers. Paraphrasing a quote attributed to Josef Stalin illustrates the large number quandary; One man’s death is a tragedy, millions of deaths are a merely a statistic.

Numbers can be manipulated for political purposes. When someone has driven to an empty school parking lot at 0230 hours and commits suicide by shooting themselves in the head there will be an advocacy group that will list that death as a school shooting. That death is a tragedy, but it should not be used to make the number of school shootings appear greater than they are.

The State of Washington Department of Health, and they are probably not the only DOH in the United States doing this, have been inaccurate in the reporting of deaths due to Covid-19.

The Washington State Department of Health (DOH) recently announced it will subtract hundreds of deaths from its count of COVID-19 fatalities as a result of methodological improvements.

However, while the changes are welcome, the Freedom Foundation’s analysis indicates they may still not be enough to correct continued deficiencies in DOH’s reporting of deaths due to COVID-19.

Combining several data sources obtained from DOH, the Freedom Foundation has compiled and analyzed the cause of death information from the death certificates of the nearly 2,000 fatalities DOH had attributed to COVID-19 as of early September.

Here are some examples from the Freedom Foundation report:

A- 64-year-old male who died of “acute combined fentanyl, heroin, methamphetamine, and methadone intoxication”;
A- 65-year-old male who died from “alcoholic liver disease”;
A- 69-year-old male suffering from Parkinson’s and vascular dementia who died from malnutrition/dehydration after refusing to eat;
A- 73-year-old female with underlying health conditions who died after declining treatment for an intestinal abscess;
A- 75-year-old-male who died following a “pacemaker infection”; and
A- 99-year-old female who died after losing her balance and falling while trying to retrieve an item from the top of her dresser.

Some individuals that were gunshot victims were listed as Covid deaths.

First, since the start of the pandemic, DOH has attributed to COVID-19 the death of any person who tested positive for COVID-19 before their death. In May, the Freedom Foundation reported how this method resulted in the inclusion of deaths clearly unrelated to COVID-19. After admitting that it was attributing even deaths caused by things like gunshot wounds to COVID-19, DOH announced it would take steps to clean up its reporting process and removed some of the most obviously inappropriate deaths from its COVID-19 tally.

You can click on the link I provided for an in depth look at the report.

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  1. DonG (Biden is compromised) Coolidge
    DonG (Biden is compromised)
    @DonG

    We should all assume that everything pushed into the public space is propaganda.  We should also assume that the most vocal scientists are political activists.  Also, the guilds of scientists are all corrupted.  As a close observer of the Global Warming Hoax for over a decade, I have seen this time and time again.  The aggressive coding for Covid deaths benefits those pushing the Scamdemic and grifting off of extra government funds for Covid deaths. 

    • #1
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Doug Watt:

    Some individuals that were gunshot victims were listed as Covid deaths.

    First, since the start of the pandemic, DOH has attributed to COVID-19 the death of any person who tested positive for COVID-19 before their death. In May, the Freedom Foundation reported how this method resulted in the inclusion of deaths clearly unrelated to COVID-19. After admitting that it was attributing even deaths caused by things like gunshot wounds to COVID-19, DOH announced it would take steps to clean up its reporting process and removed some of the most obviously inappropriate deaths from its COVID-19 tally.

    So, if someone was rained on with a .38 but before they kicked off they tested positive for the Pooh flu, that went on the list?

    Yeah. Science.

    • #2
  3. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    My niece is a pharmacist, she specializes in the geriatric oncology department at Sloan Kettering in NYC.  I saw her pre-Thanksgiving, where she spoke in hushed panic “that every single one of her patients that also contracted covid had died”.  All of her patients are admitted to her ward because of the severity and advanced stages of their cancer issues. All are listed as covid deaths. I feel crass and unsympathetic and mean.  My Dad died of leukemia 11 years ago. He spent years in and out of chemo therapies, each one extracting a bit more of his vitality, while prolonging his life. He always said in good humor, and with fair understanding, that the cancer would never kill him, it would be a side infection because of his obliterated and compromised immune system from the chemo. We always said that he died from Leukemia, not a cold. It never occurred to us to think of his death in any other way. In today’s scamdemic, (very appropriate @dong)  covid is 100% responsible for all deaths. 

    My niece also told the story of her pregnant young nurse friend, who was also diagnosed with covid, and how terrifying that was.  They had shared a bag of skittles during break in the cafeteria the day she received her positive test. I asked her how her friend was.  Ohh, she’s fine, but it was terrifying. She shared skittles with her! 

    Even as a highly trained medical specialist, she could not recognize and separate the difference between the risks that her intensive care elderly cancer patients had and her young healthy nurse friend. She has been in NYC for 3 years, and it has changed her.  She has become one of “them”.  She adores Cuomo, thinks Trump told people to drink bleach, and her uncle, whom she lived with for a number of years while she attended Duquesne university getting that degree, is a dog owning, bible thumping, crotch scratching, anti-science* conservative.  I think it is a fairly accurate description. 

    *Anti-science as defined by my skepticism of: man-made globull warming, the efficacy of mask wearing, the prudence of quarantining healthy people for almost a year; my belief that the 2020 election results were significantly affected by fraud. 

     

    • #3
  4. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Nohaaj (View Comment):
    Even as a highly trained medical specialist, she could not recognize and separate the difference between the risks that her intensive care elderly cancer patients had and her young healthy nurse friend. She has been in NYC for 3 years, and it has changed her. She has become one of “them”. She adores Cuomo. . . .

    You could be describing my daughter. She is a veterinarian living in Manhattan for three years (she has six months to go) while she completes an extra residency at the Animal Medical Center.

    She has been completely swept up in this.

    Understandably, I think, given how bad things were last spring in New York City.

    • #4
  5. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict.   They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2.   This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete.    I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties.  So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete.   Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974.  That is 113% of expected.   That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020.    Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

     

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    • #5
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    How scientific of you. 

    There is a surge in suicides that go along with unemployment. Those have gone up more than they were, I believe. Do we call those COVID Deaths, because the lockdown caused them?

    • #6
  7. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    Ekosj, You have taken a single data point, and assume that 100% of it is attributable to the virus.  The lockdown has numerous causal paths for increased deaths.  Drug OD’s and suicides are dramatically higher. People who have avoided normal healthcare and procedures because of lockdowns and fear have contributed to early and preventable deaths.  Stress related heart attacks contribute.  

     

    • #7
  8. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    Ekosj, You have taken a single data point, and assume that 100% of it is attributable to the virus. The lockdown has numerous causal paths for increased deaths. Drug OD’s and suicides are dramatically higher. People who have avoided normal healthcare and procedures because of lockdowns and fear have contributed to early and preventable deaths. Stress related heart attacks contribute.

     

    245,000 of them?    Sounds to me like you are whistling past the graveyard.    

    • #8
  9. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    How scientific of you.

    There is a surge in suicides that go along with unemployment. Those have gone up more than they were, I believe. Do we call those COVID Deaths, because the lockdown caused them?

    245,000 of them?    Sounds like you are whistling past the graveyard too.

    • #9
  10. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    One of my neighbors is an RN. She was telling me that they were finding that 25% of tests were returning false positives, and false negatives in the testing process. Perhaps the tests are more accurate today.

    I believe that Covid-19 is highly contagious, but you can test negative one day and be infected within hours after the test. If Powerball had the same odds of producing a winning ticket life would be great.

    Vaccines appear promising but in Oregon with a population 4.5 million it would take about 1.25 years to vaccinate the entire state to complete the process if you were inoculating 10,000 people a day. That doesn’t count the waiting period for the second dose of the vaccine. Will the residents of Oregon be able to withstand lockdowns for over a year until everyone is vaccinated, will the residents of any state that might have to wait longer due to a higher population withstand longer lockdowns?

    Classifying every death due to Covid destroys credibility during this pandemic.

    • #10
  11. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    Yes, the lockdowns are indeed fatal.

    • #11
  12. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    Yes, the lockdowns are indeed fatal.

    You folks need to come up with some actual data beyond figuratively waving your hands around.   Show some actual data to account for 245,000 extra deaths due to lockdowns.   And try to avoid some chemtrail / flat earth style circular argument about the fact that there’s no data proves it’s being hidden.

    • #12
  13. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Nohaaj (View Comment):
    People who have avoided normal healthcare and procedures because of lockdowns and fear have contributed to early and preventable deaths.

    This is a big deal with apparently big numbers that the MSM doesn’t want to talk about.

    • #13
  14. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    Yes, the lockdowns are indeed fatal.

    You folks need to come up with some actual data beyond figuratively waving your hands around. Show some actual data to account for 245,000 extra deaths due to lockdowns. And try to avoid some chemtrail / flat earth style circular argument about the fact that there’s no data proves it’s being hidden.

    All the data is corrupt.  From differences in reporting from state to state, county to county, likely even hospital to hospital — not to mention country to country.  Different means of determining deaths or lack of them depending on the individual government’s spin.  Cause of death, case rates, case fatality rates, etc; are all confused together.  And then the second generation effects to be calculated in, hospitalizations, ICU capacities deaths from missed procedures and being frightened away from medical facilities.  And then more trust issues: false testing, and false interpretations of testing results, and deliberately attributing other deaths to covid.

    There is no actual data, and the CDC is the magician waving his hands around.

     

    • #14
  15. Barry Jones Thatcher
    Barry Jones
    @BarryJones

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    Yes, the lockdowns are indeed fatal.

    You folks need to come up with some actual data beyond figuratively waving your hands around. Show some actual data to account for 245,000 extra deaths due to lockdowns. And try to avoid some chemtrail / flat earth style circular argument about the fact that there’s no data proves it’s being hidden.

    I don’t recall anyone saying that no one has died from Covid. The point of the post is that it is possible (given the nature of the original post probable) that some unknown number (greater than zero) of the reported Covid deaths are, in fact, not Covid deaths. The question is what is the reasonably correct range for actual “this person died of Covid and would not have died otherwise) deaths. Also, I don’t think the CDC get copies of all the death certificates in the country…if you dig into the figures it looks like past years flu deaths are listed as “approximately” or words to that affect – there are noticeable differences between causes of violent deaths reported by the CDC and the FBI for example…

    • #15
  16. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    How scientific of you.

    There is a surge in suicides that go along with unemployment. Those have gone up more than they were, I believe. Do we call those COVID Deaths, because the lockdown caused them?

    There is no way that the increase in suicide is a major part of this. Suicides average 48k a year.  Even a 100% increase, and there is no evidence of that kind of increase, would leave us with 260k deaths from Covid in the last 10 months ( using the Worldmeter total for today of 320k .   Thats the reality.

    • #16
  17. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    Ekosj, You have taken a single data point, and assume that 100% of it is attributable to the virus. The lockdown has numerous causal paths for increased deaths. Drug OD’s and suicides are dramatically higher. People who have avoided normal healthcare and procedures because of lockdowns and fear have contributed to early and preventable deaths. Stress related heart attacks contribute.

     

    245,000 of them? Sounds to me like you are whistling past the graveyard.

    It’s ridiculous if you look at this graph

    It’s plan as day that the deaths are due to Covid.  There is no other reasonable explanation.

    • #17
  18. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    Ekosj, You have taken a single data point, and assume that 100% of it is attributable to the virus. The lockdown has numerous causal paths for increased deaths. Drug OD’s and suicides are dramatically higher. People who have avoided normal healthcare and procedures because of lockdowns and fear have contributed to early and preventable deaths. Stress related heart attacks contribute.

     

    245,000 of them? Sounds to me like you are whistling past the graveyard.

    Way to deliberately misinterpret what I said.

    Not worth talking with you at all if that is how you are going to be. 

    • #18
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID had been pretty bad.

    Ekosj, You have taken a single data point, and assume that 100% of it is attributable to the virus. The lockdown has numerous causal paths for increased deaths. Drug OD’s and suicides are dramatically higher. People who have avoided normal healthcare and procedures because of lockdowns and fear have contributed to early and preventable deaths. Stress related heart attacks contribute.

     

    245,000 of them? Sounds to me like you are whistling past the graveyard.

    It’s ridiculous if you look at this graph

    It’s plan as day that the deaths are due to Covid. There is no other reasonable explanation.

    There’s no increase in undiagnosed and untreated, say, heart attacks and cancers?

    • #19
  20. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    I believe the point is that the reporting from the Washington DOH in some cases was not following the CDC guidelines. How many cases is the question. Someone that ingests enough meth and opioids to put down a herd of elephants should not be classified as a Covid death. Lead overdoses would be in this category. It is probably just sloppy reporting. Sloppy reporting does have some policy ramifications, such as lockdown decisions.

    • #20
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    COVID has been bad. But not as bad as sold; the people fudging the numbers need their redactses kicked, because we’re paying money for science and the product is being adulterated and used for people control. 

     

    • #21
  22. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):
    Even as a highly trained medical specialist, she could not recognize and separate the difference between the risks that her intensive care elderly cancer patients had and her young healthy nurse friend. She has been in NYC for 3 years, and it has changed her. She has become one of “them”. She adores Cuomo. . . .

    You could be describing my daughter. She is a veterinarian living in Manhattan for three years (she has six months to go) while she completes an extra residency at the Animal Medical Center.

    She has been completely swept up in this.

    Understandably, I think, given how bad things were last spring in New York City.

    Females have a stronger tendency towards neuroticism and anxiety than do males. They are designed to worry about babies and babies die very easy. Adam Carolla discusses this frequently. When there was that terrorist attack in California, his wife was convinced there was a fifty percent change that her children were hurt (his telling). Alison Rosen also mentioned that when she was working in an office, it was discovered that there was black mold and all the ladies were absolutely terrified of getting sick. 

    My cousin was terrified that her daughter wasn’t talking enough because she liked to use sign language and was shy. My niece was always quite clever and she played jokes on people now reads above her grade level. There is weakness in feminine nature that overestimates risks. It’s not a terrible thing all the time. There are legitimate risks to worry about. The problem is when we don’t use our reason to distinguish what is worth worry about alot and worth worrying about a little. 

    • #22
  23. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    When people complain about voting irregularities and are met with, “shut up and eat the numbers we’re giving you”, they are rightly suspicious and angry.

    Demanding correct numbers from agencies that have power over us is vital in a democracy, unless the democracy isn’t that important I suppose.

    • #23
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    TBA (View Comment):
    unless the democracy isn’t that important I suppose.

    Democracy isn’t very important. The rule of law is all important.

    • #24
  25. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    unless the democracy isn’t that important I suppose.

    Democracy isn’t very important. The rule of law is all important.

    Since, with regard to ballot-counting, they are indistinguishable, I’m not gonna argue the point. 

    • #25
  26. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):
    Even as a highly trained medical specialist, she could not recognize and separate the difference between the risks that her intensive care elderly cancer patients had and her young healthy nurse friend. She has been in NYC for 3 years, and it has changed her. She has become one of “them”. She adores Cuomo. . . .

    You could be describing my daughter. She is a veterinarian living in Manhattan for three years (she has six months to go) while she completes an extra residency at the Animal Medical Center.

    She has been completely swept up in this.

    Understandably, I think, given how bad things were last spring in New York City.

    Females have a stronger tendency towards neuroticism and anxiety than do males. They are designed to worry about babies and babies die very easy. Adam Carolla discusses this frequently. When there was that terrorist attack in California, his wife was convinced there was a fifty percent change that her children were hurt (his telling). Alison Rosen also mentioned that when she was working in an office, it was discovered that there was black mold and all the ladies were absolutely terrified of getting sick.

    My cousin was terrified that her daughter wasn’t talking enough because she liked to use sign language and was shy. My niece was always quite clever and she played jokes on people now reads above her grade level. There is weakness in feminine nature that overestimates risks. It’s not a terrible thing all the time. There are legitimate risks to worry about. The problem is when we don’t use our reason to distinguish what is worth worry about alot and worth worrying about a little.

    ~steps nimbly over third rail~ 

    • #26
  27. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    The CDC reports on “Excess Deaths” … that is deaths in excess of what their historical models predict. They are usually very accurate … within a percentage point or 2. This metric is based on deaths from all causes.
    The numbers for 2020 to date are incomplete. I think they get actual copies of death certificates from the counties. So the most recent 4 or 5 weeks are incomplete. Even so, they are currently reporting deaths in 2020 at 13% above what their historical model predicts.
    Currently reported deaths as of today are 2,800,974. That is 113% of expected. That means they expect about 2,478,000 deaths by this time in 2020. Even if they have underestimated by a percentage point or 2 or 3 that’s still at least 245,000 excess deaths reported so far in 2020 with 2 weeks still to go and 4 weeks data still incomplete.

    Unless someone wants to make a very convincing argument otherwise, pointing to some other casual factor for 245,000 extra deaths so far this year; I think we are forced to conclude that COVID has been pretty bad.

    Yes, the lockdowns are indeed fatal.

    You folks need to come up with some actual data beyond figuratively waving your hands around. Show some actual data to account for 245,000 extra deaths due to lockdowns. And try to avoid some chemtrail / flat earth style circular argument about the fact that there’s no data proves it’s being hidden.

    All the data is corrupt. From differences in reporting from state to state, county to county, likely even hospital to hospital — not to mention country to country. Different means of determining deaths or lack of them depending on the individual government’s spin. Cause of death, case rates, case fatality rates, etc; are all confused together. And then the second generation effects to be calculated in, hospitalizations, ICU capacities deaths from missed procedures and being frightened away from medical facilities. And then more trust issues: false testing, and false interpretations of testing results, and deliberately attributing other deaths to covid.

    There is no actual data, and the CDC is the magician waving his hands around.

    There is no data.  Ok.  Right.   You doing your Neo impersonation from the Matrix?   “There is no spoon”

    • #27
  28. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Flicker (View Comment):
    All the data is corrupt. From differences in reporting from state to state, county to county, likely even hospital to hospital — not to mention country to country. Different means of determining deaths or lack of them depending on the individual government’s spin. Cause of death, case rates, case fatality rates, etc; are all confused together. And then the second generation effects to be calculated in, hospitalizations, ICU capacities deaths from missed procedures and being frightened away from medical facilities. And then more trust issues: false testing, and false interpretations of testing results, and deliberately attributing other deaths to covid.

    That’s exactly why I’m looking at deaths from all causes, not any particular subcategory.    It sidesteps the problem  of  determining cause of death, false positives yadda yadda yadda.

    • #28
  29. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Barry Jones (View Comment):
    The question is what is the reasonably correct range for actual “this person died of Covid and would not have died otherwise) deaths. Also, I don’t think the CDC get copies of all the death certificates in the country…if you dig into the figures it looks like past years flu deaths are listed as “approximately” or words to that affect – here are noticeable differences between causes of violent deaths reported by the CDC and the FBI for example…

    Well, it sure seems to me that people are trying to leverage questions about exact cause of death in particular cases into an argument that Covid is not that bad.   Again, that’s why I’m looking at deaths from all causes.   I’m trying to sidestep that problem.

    Also.  The CDC does get the actual death certificates.   From footnotes to that table…

    Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.

    • #29
  30. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    DonG (Biden is compromised) (View Comment):

    We should all assume that everything pushed into the public space is propaganda. We should also assume that the most vocal scientists are political activists. Also, the guilds of scientists are all corrupted. As a close observer of the Global Warming Hoax for over a decade, I have seen this time and time again. The aggressive coding for Covid deaths benefits those pushing the Scamdemic and grifting off of extra government funds for Covid deaths.

    It has been amazing to me to realize how  some of the same people who are fully aware of how rinky dinky the Global Climate Crisis scientists happen to be  now hang onto every word uttered by Fauci and other “health experts.”

    • #30