France Criminalizes Catholicism

 

I didn’t think I could be shocked and appalled by anything else in 2020. I was wrong. France has banned public Masses, supposedly due to COVID-19.

Let me explain for non-Catholics. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the source and summit of the faith. We believe the sacraments were instituted by Christ to impart the grace of faith through the sensible signs of what they signify. The Mass is the Catholic faith.

But, it gets worse. France’s 1905 law declaring the separation of church and state is being used to ban public prayer at protests against the ban. Can you imagine? If you cross yourself and get on your knees and pray the Rosary in protest against the ban of the practice of your faith, you can be fined $130 euros — as a start. I’m appalled.

This is while grocery stores, schools, and public transit are still operating. California and New York aren’t quite as bad, but they’re getting there.

Read the whole horrifying, sordid story here. I’ve been praying for Christians in China, the Middle East, and Poland . . . (Ireland, the US, etc. . . ). I guess I’ll be adding the “eldest daughter of the Church.” Lord have mercy on us.

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  1. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Horrible, WC. One more attack on religion and faith. So sorry.

    I don’t know if you saw this item, but it could be worse:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/22/backlash-as-holocaust-museum-features-george-floyd-exhibit/

    I certainly don’t want to minimize what happened to Jews at the hands of Nazis. But I would like to point out that the total death toll was upwards of 11 million and included Gypsies, Poles, gays, mentally handicapped, and not a few Catholic priests and nuns. 

    The Left does the destructive work of Satan. Every. single. time.

    • #31
  2. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Horrible, WC. One more attack on religion and faith. So sorry.

    I don’t know if you saw this item, but it could be worse:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/22/backlash-as-holocaust-museum-features-george-floyd-exhibit/

    They are starved for true heroes on the Left, they must settle for a violent addict and his overdose death.

    If the Holocaust Museum wanted to at least try to live up to the notion of “Never Forget” they could forget about Floyd and point out the similarities between our being locked down, masked up, put under curfew, contact traced etc for a virus that has not been isolated, and whose supposed  existence now requires us to have an experimental vaccine with about 1/20th the research and the serious study a vax in development would have gotten in 1965, comparing all this with how the Third Reich insisted a segment of the population was vermin/germ infected.

    We have done the Third Reich one better -we are now all   considered to be vermin/germ infested.

    One of the most poignant comments in the book “They Thought They Were  Free” written by Jewish historian Meyer was from a German woman who survived the war. She stated that “If we had been told in the beginning what the end would be, then  none of us would have signed on for the Third Reich’s dictates. But their program was offered to us in baby steps, so as long as you didn’t think about where the first few innocuous steps might lead, you signed on.”

     

    • #32
  3. DonG (Biden is compromised) Coolidge
    DonG (Biden is compromised)
    @DonG

    If the French Catholics tolerate this, shame on them. 

    • #33
  4. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    DonG (Biden is compromised) (View Comment):

    If the French Catholics tolerate this, shame on them.

    French Catholics seem to be having the same problem as American Catholics — their bishops are largely men without chests. But, from what I’ve read, it’s almost entirely the laity in the streets suffering the consequences of “illegal” prayerful protests. I’m sure Bishop (Vatican II “laity’s role” trump card) Barron would approve. 

    • #34
  5. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):

    Have they also closed the mosques?

    As I understand it, adherents can still enter churches and mosques to pray, they just can’t participate in public Mass — or pray in public.

    Well, do they allow outdoor dining? If a priest stands at the door . . .

    Anyway, some things are worth going to jail over.

    • #35
  6. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):

    Have they also closed the mosques?

    As I understand it, adherents can still enter churches and mosques to pray, they just can’t participate in public Mass — or pray in public.

    Well, do they allow outdoor dining? If a priest stands at the door . . .

    Anyway, some things are worth going to jail over.

    Agreed. When in the course of human events. . .

    • #36
  7. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    I remember being appalled this past Spring walking by my parish church and seeing it dark and shuttered, as though it had been abandoned. Our bishops so quickly and willingly bent the knee to secular authorities. The Mass and Confession were not offered for months. I never thought I’d see the day when this would happen.

    Last Spring took us by surprise. If the secular authorities try it again, the reaction will be different. I think some of the bishops are embarrassed by how easily they were rolled, and may not snap into line so easily again.  The laity will definitely not be so docile. I won’t be, and many of my fellow parishioners won’t be either.

    We must be prepared. That means first and foremost spiritual preparation. Prayer and a moral accounting of ourselves. Just how far am I willing to go? Will I show up at an “outlaw Mass” and allow myself to be arrested? To be doxxed and potentially lose my job? The time to ask these questions is now and to prepare oneself spiritually for the moment of crisis when it comes. 

    I remember C.S. Lewis’s analogy to describe what it was like when it first seriously hit him that God might actually exist. He compared it to children playing cops and robbers, who hear a window shatter and realize that a real burglar might be in the house. That is what it seems like now. Reading stories of the saints and martyrs was all very uplifting but also comfortably remote. There was no danger that I might be called on for such sacrifice. I’d much rather pray for the intercession of the martyrs than join them myself. Well, I just heard the window shatter.

    • #37
  8. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    I remember being appalled this past Spring walking by my parish church and seeing it dark and shuttered, as though it had been abandoned. Our bishops so quickly and willingly bent the knee to secular authorities. The Mass and Confession were not offered for months. I never thought I’d see the day when this would happen.

    Last Spring took us by surprise. If the secular authorities try it again, the reaction will be different. I think some of the bishops are embarrassed by how easily they were rolled, and may not snap into line so easily again. The laity will definitely not be so docile. I won’t be, and many of my fellow parishioners won’t be either.

    We must be prepared. That means first and foremost spiritual preparation. Prayer and a moral accounting of ourselves. Just how far am I willing to go? Will I show up at an “outlaw Mass” and allow myself to be arrested? To be doxxed and potentially lose my job? The time to ask these questions is now and to prepare oneself spiritually for the moment of crisis when it comes.

    I remember C.S. Lewis’s analogy to describe what it was like when it first seriously hit him that God might actually exist. He compared it to children playing cops and robbers, who hear a window shatter and realize that a real burglar might be in the house. That is what it seems like now. Reading stories of the saints and martyrs was all very uplifting but also comfortably remote. There was no danger that I might be called on for such sacrifice. I’d much rather pray for the intercession of the martyrs than join them myself. Well, I just heard the window shatter.

    Getting on to 1870 years since Polycarp was said to have uttered this as his last words: “I bless you, Father, for judging me worthy of this hour, so that in the company of the martyrs I may share the cup of Christ.”[10]

    I suspect that few have faith that strong. 

    • #38
  9. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    I remember being appalled this past Spring walking by my parish church and seeing it dark and shuttered, as though it had been abandoned. Our bishops so quickly and willingly bent the knee to secular authorities. The Mass and Confession were not offered for months. I never thought I’d see the day when this would happen.

    Last Spring took us by surprise. If the secular authorities try it again, the reaction will be different. I think some of the bishops are embarrassed by how easily they were rolled, and may not snap into line so easily again. The laity will definitely not be so docile. I won’t be, and many of my fellow parishioners won’t be either.

    We must be prepared. That means first and foremost spiritual preparation. Prayer and a moral accounting of ourselves. Just how far am I willing to go? Will I show up at an “outlaw Mass” and allow myself to be arrested? To be doxxed and potentially lose my job? The time to ask these questions is now and to prepare oneself spiritually for the moment of crisis when it comes.

    I remember C.S. Lewis’s analogy to describe what it was like when it first seriously hit him that God might actually exist. He compared it to children playing cops and robbers, who hear a window shatter and realize that a real burglar might be in the house. That is what it seems like now. Reading stories of the saints and martyrs was all very uplifting but also comfortably remote. There was no danger that I might be called on for such sacrifice. I’d much rather pray for the intercession of the martyrs than join them myself. Well, I just heard the window shatter.

    Amen.

    • #39
  10. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):

    Have they also closed the mosques?

     STAD: Damn good question.

    As ChiCom Joe would say” C’mon”

    You  both know the answer to that question. Absolutely Not. 

    As we have two tiered justice for Republicans and Democrats, we also have two tiered justice for Christians and Jews on one hand and Muslims on the other. 

    • #40
  11. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    And suddenly this is a fact, I guess. 

    • #41
  12. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    This is part of France’s anti-clerical history dating back to the Revolution. However it remains conflicted about its Catholicism: all the school holidays are Catholic ones (Toussaint, Ascension…), all the public schools put up Christmas trees, people say Joyeux Noël.

    This is a « crush the human spirit » lockdown measure and everyone is doing it.

    Worth mentioning that I believe they are also restricting Catholics because we had a problem about 2-3 years ago with Muslims praying in the street in Clichy. They claimed their mosque was too small and blocked the street for months. People were furious and started to have Friday night « apéros » eating sausage and drinking wine. It went to court and finally the Muslims were denied to the right to pray in the public space.

    If people are allowed to pray outside, we all in France now what will come to the surface and the prospect is frightening. At least to me.

    Sometimes I see Americans criticize certain measures in Europe (laïcité, mandatory daycare) as anti-freedom or intrusive, but I see that Europe is in a permanent state of tension trying to keep Islam on the straight and narrow. Given an inch they will take a mile and we have a very big problem with radical Islam.

    • #42
  13. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Tocqueville (View Comment):

    This is part of France’s anti-clerical history dating back to the Revolution. However it remains conflicted about its Catholicism: all the school holidays are Catholic ones (Toussaint, Ascension…), all the public schools put up Christmas trees, people say Joyeux Noël.

    This is a « crush the human spirit » lockdown measure and everyone is doing it.

    Worth mentioning that I believe they are also restricting Catholics because we had a problem about 2-3 years ago with Muslims praying in the street in Clichy. They claimed their mosque was too small and blocked the street for months. People were furious and started to have Friday night « apéros » eating sausage and drinking wine. It went to court and finally the Muslims were denied to the right to pray in the public space.

    If people are allowed to pray outside, we all in France now what will come to the surface and the prospect is frightening. At least to me.

    Sometimes I see Americans criticize certain measures in Europe (laïcité, mandatory daycare) as anti-freedom or intrusive, but I see that Europe is in a permanent state of tension trying to keep Islam on the straight and narrow. Given an inch they will take a mile and we have a very big problem with radical Islam.

    Sow the wind. . .

    • #43
  14. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    the total death toll was upwards of 11 million and included Gypsies, Poles, gays, mentally handicapped, and not a few Catholic priests and nuns.

    So true.  Each group has its own holocaust to deal with.

    • #44
  15. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker (View Comment):

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Horrible, WC. One more attack on religion and faith. So sorry.

    I don’t know if you saw this item, but it could be worse:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/22/backlash-as-holocaust-museum-features-george-floyd-exhibit/

    They are starved for true heroes on the Left, they must settle for a violent addict and his overdose death.

    If the Holocaust Museum wanted to at least try to live up to the notion of “Never Forget” they could forget about Floyd and point out the similarities between our being locked down, masked up, put under curfew, contact traced etc for a virus that has not been isolated, and whose supposed existence now requires us to have an experimental vaccine with about 1/20th the research and the serious study a vax in development would have gotten in 1965, comparing all this with how the Third Reich insisted a segment of the population was vermin/germ infected.

    We have done the Third Reich one better -we are now all considered to be vermin/germ infested.

    One of the most poignant comments in the book “They Thought They Were Free” written by Jewish historian Meyer was from a German woman who survived the war. She stated that “If we had been told in the beginning what the end would be, then none of us would have signed on for the Third Reich’s dictates. But their program was offered to us in baby steps, so as long as you didn’t think about where the first few innocuous steps might lead, you signed on.”

     

    I’m a broken record when it comes to what I’m about to say, but the Great Courses lecture “History of Hitler’s Empire” showed how a WW1 gassing victim and failed artist could rise to power in a supposedly civilized country.  Listen to this course and you’ll realize it can happen here:

    https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-of-hitler-s-empire-2nd-edition.html

    • #45
  16. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Unsk (View Comment):
    we also have two tiered justice for Christians and Jews on one hand and Muslims on the other. 

    Yep.  They leave the potentially violent people alone.  However, they forget non-violent people will become violent if pushed hard enough . . .

    • #46
  17. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Tocqueville (View Comment):

    This is part of France’s anti-clerical history dating back to the Revolution. However it remains conflicted about its Catholicism: all the school holidays are Catholic ones (Toussaint, Ascension…), all the public schools put up Christmas trees, people say Joyeux Noël.

    This is a « crush the human spirit » lockdown measure and everyone is doing it.

    Worth mentioning that I believe they are also restricting Catholics because we had a problem about 2-3 years ago with Muslims praying in the street in Clichy. They claimed their mosque was too small and blocked the street for months. People were furious and started to have Friday night « apéros » eating sausage and drinking wine. It went to court and finally the Muslims were denied to the right to pray in the public space.

    If people are allowed to pray outside, we all in France now what will come to the surface and the prospect is frightening. At least to me.

    Sometimes I see Americans criticize certain measures in Europe (laïcité, mandatory daycare) as anti-freedom or intrusive, but I see that Europe is in a permanent state of tension trying to keep Islam on the straight and narrow. Given an inch they will take a mile and we have a very big problem with radical Islam.

    They don’t already have a law about blocking traffic? I don’t care if they are praying, clog-dancing, declaiming the Rights of Man, or reenacting the student riots of 1968. Keep it on the sidewalk, mon ami.

    • #47
  18. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Percival (View Comment):
    They don’t already have a law about blocking traffic? I don’t care if they are praying, clog-dancing, declaiming the Rights of Man, or reenacting the student riots of 1968. Keep it on the sidewalk, mon ami.

    That’s the shocking thing. French authorities are prohibiting prayerful protest because it is against the law to mix politics and religion. Even if you break no other laws, you may not pray while protesting. I find it mind blowing that any civilized society would even attempt such tyranny. 

    • #48
  19. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    They don’t already have a law about blocking traffic? I don’t care if they are praying, clog-dancing, declaiming the Rights of Man, or reenacting the student riots of 1968. Keep it on the sidewalk, mon ami.

    That’s the shocking thing. French authorities are prohibiting prayerful protest because it is against the law to mix politics and religion. Even if you break no other laws, you may not pray while protesting. I find it mind blowing that any civilized society would even attempt such tyranny.

    was protesting. I took a prayer break. Later, I’ll resume protesting.

    How do you say “bite me, copper” in French?

    • #49
  20. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    France still has some fight in her. The Belgians – not so much.

    • #50
  21. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    Percival (View Comment):

    Tocqueville (View Comment):

    This is part of France’s anti-clerical history dating back to the Revolution. However it remains conflicted about its Catholicism: all the school holidays are Catholic ones (Toussaint, Ascension…), all the public schools put up Christmas trees, people say Joyeux Noël.

    This is a « crush the human spirit » lockdown measure and everyone is doing it.

    Worth mentioning that I believe they are also restricting Catholics because we had a problem about 2-3 years ago with Muslims praying in the street in Clichy. They claimed their mosque was too small and blocked the street for months. People were furious and started to have Friday night « apéros » eating sausage and drinking wine. It went to court and finally the Muslims were denied to the right to pray in the public space.

    If people are allowed to pray outside, we all in France now what will come to the surface and the prospect is frightening. At least to me.

    Sometimes I see Americans criticize certain measures in Europe (laïcité, mandatory daycare) as anti-freedom or intrusive, but I see that Europe is in a permanent state of tension trying to keep Islam on the straight and narrow. Given an inch they will take a mile and we have a very big problem with radical Islam.

    They don’t already have a law about blocking traffic? I don’t care if they are praying, clog-dancing, declaiming the Rights of Man, or reenacting the student riots of 1968. Keep it on the sidewalk, mon ami.

    That’s part of it. It was heartening to see all the politicians come out with the tri-couleur across their chests and the bystanders drinking wine and eating sausage. Ahh. Pre-Covid

    • #51
  22. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    My family and I are converting to Catholicism- escaping the American Anglicans here – very woke. And the priests and people I have so far met are rebelliously unmasked and very cynical which is so refreshing.

    • #52
  23. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Tocqueville (View Comment):

    My family and I are converting to Catholicism- escaping the American Anglicans here – very woke. And the priests and people I have so far met are rebelliously unmasked and very cynical which is so refreshing.

    God bless you! We needed some good news! And welcome home.

    • #53
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