Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. The Mandalorian Armor Controversy

 

Here I am, naive, young, innocent Twitter* user when I come across this Tweet:

Sigh. See, I just don’t want to give a Professional Grievance Profiteer more attention, but on the other hand, as Ricochet’s resident Chainmail Bikini and Boob-Plate Expert, I am almost obligated to respond.

This is a weird fight to get into, really. Why quibble about what armor looks like in a Space Fantasy universe. The Star Wars Universe has people with magic swords that move things with their mind, so going after the shape of armor seems an odd hill to die on.

But let’s start with the practical, shall we? So-called “Boob Plate” is frequently criticized because supposedly having armor shaped to the female form is Bad. “It creates a weak point!” they say “And gives people a target!” to those, I’ll say that in general plate armor has weak points, namely at the joints. Plate armor isn’t perfect protection** because, well, perfect protection would leave the combatant immobile. Actually, Shadiversity does a better job explaining why this is not objectionable armor at all.

Moreover, despite what some creators and critics on the Left like to think, women are not shaped like men. As many women have noted, if you’re going to be wearing a giant hunk of metal for a while, ideally you don’t want more discomfort than necessary, and women of certain sizes as well as men of sizable girth both agree they’d rather have something accommodating them rather than restrict breathing and such.

But let’s get to the Star Wars universe. We have warriors wearing armor and jet packs. Unlike previous movies, where Stormtrooper armor seems to do nothing more than offer shiny white targets, The Mandalorian‘s title character’s armor actually protects him from things like blaster fire. It’s like the creators of this series said, “Hey, what if this armor did more for our character than just make him look really cool and awesome?” And if it works for him, it’d work for any character wearing similar armor. And again, we’re looking for reasonable comfort paired with reasonable protection, making armor shaped to the wearer makes sense.***

But let’s look back at my most excellent article of yesteryear. The chainmail bikini and its cousins were popularized by Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo, Julie Bell and other artists. They’ve created a lot of fantasy art that features men and women in minimal protective gear and showing off fit and well-toned physiques. It’s a celebration of the human body for them.

Much as I hate assuming motive, maybe this is why critics like Sarkeesian nitpick at armor shapes. They don’t care for the human body and its differences between the sexes. Or maybe they just want attention and this is the easiest way to get it – some people are so desperate they’ll even take negative attention.


*Only one of the four preceding words is true. I’ll leave it to you to figure that out.

**Later, Medieval Weapon Scientists would create ways to make their own weak points in plate armor. Why go for a hard to hit joint when you can punch a hole in their armor?

***Again, I’m talking about space fantasy armor in a space fantasy universe with magical space wizards wielding laser swords.

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  1. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    “Lileks’ Post of the Week” for sure!

    • #1
    • November 16, 2020, at 11:50 AM PST
    • 10 likes
  2. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I’m reporting and commenting on the important issues of our time, dadgummit!

    • #2
    • November 16, 2020, at 11:52 AM PST
    • 10 likes
  3. Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw Member

    It’d make more sense for her to demand they call the ladies “Womandalorians”.

    Heck she might even have my support on that.

    • #3
    • November 16, 2020, at 12:07 PM PST
    • 7 likes
  4. Hartmann von Aue Member

    C.U.- thanks! I had seen a post or two about this earlier. 

    Also-thanks for introducing me to Julie Bell’s artwork. Her X-Men series is particularly well-executed. Interesting that she used to be a bodybuilder. 

    • #4
    • November 16, 2020, at 12:14 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  5. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    C.U.- thanks! I had seen a post or two about this earlier.

    Also-thanks for introducing me to Julie Bell’s artwork. Her X-Men series is particularly well-executed. Interesting that she used to be a bodybuilder.

    I’m going from memory, but I believe she was a protege of Vallejo, so she definitely shows that influence.

    • #5
    • November 16, 2020, at 12:17 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  6. Sabrdance Member

    The ancient Greeks sculpted their armor to look like an idealized form -and their armor was far from useless. Now, the interesting question is -does anyone know what the armor Elizabeth wore at Tilbury looked like?

    (I’d imagine most armorers would try to avoid the saddle point, but obviously a woman’s breasts would have to be accommodated by the cuirass.)

    As for Sarkesian, the most relevant point is that the super fan feminist who just wants sf/f to respect the women is apparently unaware that Bo-Katan and her armor have existed since 2011. Maybe she just isn’t a fan and we should stop paying her any mind?

    • #6
    • November 16, 2020, at 12:24 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  7. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    Maybe she just isn’t a fan and we should stop paying her any mind?

    She’s an annoying self-promoter who has been trying to destroy various fandoms for several years now. Not content to let people enjoy what they want to enjoy, her goal is to destroy the things that people like because she’s a fun-murderer.

    • #7
    • November 16, 2020, at 12:37 PM PST
    • 6 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  8. Judge Mental Member

    Why can’t I follow this post?

    • #8
    • November 16, 2020, at 12:51 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  9. SkipSul Coolidge
    SkipSul Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    • #9
    • November 16, 2020, at 1:00 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  10. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    Maybe she just isn’t a fan and we should stop paying her any mind?

    She’s an annoying self-promoter who has been trying to destroy various fandoms for several years now. Not content to let people enjoy what they want to enjoy, her goal is to destroy the things that people like because she’s a fun-murderer.

    Also, Sarkeesian’s most recent endeavors have proven fruitless. So every so often she comes on Social Media to point out something Offensive to Some Minority with the implication that she’s there to help (for a small large fee).

    • #10
    • November 16, 2020, at 1:34 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  11. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    Being offended on behalf of others can be profitable.

    Ask Robin DiAngelo.

    • #11
    • November 16, 2020, at 1:39 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  12. Stad Coolidge

    Boob armor is standard for all computer RPG female warriors, regardless of actual breast size. What I want to know is, does Mr. Mandalorian have an anatomically correct armor codpiece . . .

    • #12
    • November 16, 2020, at 1:57 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  13. Sisyphus Coolidge
    Sisyphus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Another example of the great bane of our age, Mandaloriansplaining. The patriarchy may be dead, but there still seems to be a lot of twitching going on.

    • #13
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:02 PM PST
    • 10 likes
  14. Percival Thatcher
    Percival Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Why can’t I follow this post?

    Same here.

    • #14
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:06 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    For armor protecting from melee weapons, you want to redirect attacks away from vulnerable points without creating new ones. The biggest difficulty here is the region just below the … chesticles. That might tend to capture more than its share of thrusts. That’s okay, as long as it is strong enough to maintain integrity. 

    If you are protecting against ballistic or energy weapons, no problem.

    • #15
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:12 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  16. Percival Thatcher
    Percival Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Percival (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Why can’t I follow this post?

    Same here.

    Even commenting isn’t causing a follow.

    • #16
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:14 PM PST
    • 1 like
  17. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Percival (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Why can’t I follow this post?

    Same here.

    Even commenting isn’t causing a follow.

    Apparently my writing is too awful or something.

    • #17
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:15 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  18. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Percival (View Comment):

    For armor protecting from melee weapons, you want to redirect attacks away from vulnerable points without creating new ones. The biggest difficulty here is the region just below the … chesticles. That might tend to capture more than its share of thrusts. That’s okay, as long as it is strong enough to maintain integrity.

    If you are protecting against ballistic or energy weapons, no problem.

    That’s why the Shadiversity videos above are good. One of his points is that such armor needs to be well-made, which would hold true of any such armor.

    • #18
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:16 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  19. Full Size Tabby Member

    C. U. Douglas: Moreover, despite what some creators and critics on the Left like to think, women are not shaped like men. As many women have noted, if you’re going to be wearing a giant hunk of metal for a while, ideally you don’t want more discomfort than necessary, and women of certain sizes as well as men of sizable girth both agree they’d rather have something accommodating them rather than restrict breathing and such.

    Huh? Critics complain because the armor follows the contours of the person wearing it? I used to listen to a medical podcast by a leftist female medical doctor who complained on occasion about the lab coats of the early 2000s (when she was in medical school and a new practitioner) because there were not female versions that conformed to the shape of females. She found the lack of female-specific lab coats a sign of the oppressive patriarchy. [I stopped listening when she joined the ranks saying that being “female” depended on how a person thought rather than the person’s physical characteristics. How can I take seriously a “medical doctor” that denies basic biology?]

    • #19
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:28 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  20. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    C. U. Douglas: Moreover, despite what some creators and critics on the Left like to think, women are not shaped like men. As many women have noted, if you’re going to be wearing a giant hunk of metal for a while, ideally you don’t want more discomfort than necessary, and women of certain sizes as well as men of sizable girth both agree they’d rather have something accommodating them rather than restrict breathing and such.

    Huh? Critics complain because the armor follows the contours of the person wearing it? I used to listen to a medical podcast by a leftist female medical doctor who complained on occasion about the lab coats of the early 2000s (when she was in medical school and a new practitioner) because there were not female versions that conformed to the shape of females. She found the lack of female-specific lab coats a sign of the oppressive patriarchy. [I stopped listening when she joined the ranks saying that being “female” depended on how a person thought rather than the person’s physical characteristics. How can I take seriously a “medical doctor” that denies basic biology?]

    I guess that means oppressive patriarchy is in the eye of the beholder.

    • #20
    • November 16, 2020, at 2:30 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  21. Dennis A. Garcia (formerly Gai… Member

    And who said we wouldn’t be united in the culture wars to come?

    I think all womandolarians should feel free to have their beskar molded to accomadate their particular physiques.

    • #21
    • November 16, 2020, at 3:15 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  22. Stina Member

    I enjoyed these videos!

    And sarkeesian is a hack.

    • #22
    • November 16, 2020, at 3:36 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  23. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Stina (View Comment):

    I enjoyed these videos!

    And sarkeesian is a hack.

    Her social credit does seem to be overdrawn. The geek community has been getting tired of watching people ruin their favorite properties while also scolding them for actually choosing to enjoy something else. Sarkeesian still has her followers, but I’ve noted that the reactions have been a lot more negative to her latest rant and more have been calling her on it. Of course, her supporters look down over their noses and call her critics uncouth ruffians, to which they also called on their behavior.

    I take it as a somewhat hopeful sign that most people really don’t care for the Lefty Internet Scolds.

    • #23
    • November 16, 2020, at 3:43 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  24. Doug Watt Moderator

    Mandalorian, or any other armor problem. There is a solution.

     

    • #24
    • November 16, 2020, at 3:46 PM PST
    • 13 likes
  25. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Five things:

    1. Terrific post, @cudouglas. Really enjoyed it even though sci-fi isn’t so much my jam.

    2. Why in the world wouldn’t a wearer of armor want it to be as comfortable as possible? If chick Mandalorians have boobs (and maybe this is the actual point of contention, that they shouldn’t?), and if they wear armor, then their armor should pretty obviously fit around their boobs.

    3. I can’t follow posts either, for some reason.

    4. The tweet in question should be cause for celebration across this great land because if Mandalorian boob armor is a problem, then all of the real problems must have been solved.

    5. I think I saw Mandalorian Boob Armor open for Stryker (or maybe it was the other way around) back in ’82.

    • #25
    • November 16, 2020, at 4:50 PM PST
    • 12 likes
  26. OccupantCDN Coolidge

    You know you have a good life – when all you can complain about are the boobies on the depictions of fictional characters.

    Also these complaints are being raised by non star wars fans. Bo Katan, has been a character on Star Wars: Clone Wars since 2011 – without a peep. (played by Katee Sackhoff on that show as well)

    • #26
    • November 16, 2020, at 6:10 PM PST
    • 6 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  27. OldDanRhody's speakeasy Member

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):
    You know you have a good life – when all you can complain about are the boobies on the depictions of fictional characters.

    …not to mention space suits.

    Wally Wood Strange Worlds of Science Fiction TP New PTG (O ...

    • #27
    • November 17, 2020, at 4:12 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  28. Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw Member

    OldDanRhody's speakeasy (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):
    You know you have a good life – when all you can complain about are the boobies on the depictions of fictional characters.

    …not to mention space suits.

    Wally Wood Strange Worlds of Science Fiction TP New PTG (O ...

    I think there’s only one response to that: Hooray for Wally Wood!

    • #28
    • November 17, 2020, at 7:11 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  29. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    One can choose to have boobs on their armor, but would it really provide any real comfort or benefit? Certainly if one is crafting a full body armor for a woman you would have to take generally wider hips to waist ratio into account. But then again such armors are always tailor made to the wearer.

    I think if one wants to ask what a practical and realistic armor for women would look like I think all you have to ask yourself is what does it look like now? Do women in the Army wear any differently shaped bullet resistant vests than their male counter parts? I think we see that NASA also doesn’t make space suits with any kind of womanly shape to them. 

    The crafting or imagining of womanly shaped armor is simply an artistic choice, to make female characters wearing armor still appear female visually for the benefit of the viewer. I think so long as artists and creators are giving their female characters armor that actually covers their body in a protective manner then that is good enough. 

    • #29
    • November 17, 2020, at 7:59 AM PST
    • 1 like
  30. Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Do women in the Army wear any differently shaped bullet resistant vests than their male counter parts?

    Not being one I’m not certain but IIRC the answer is yes.

    I think we see that NASA also doesn’t make space suits with any kind of womanly shape to them. 

    That’s because the technology we have doesn’t allow for it yet. If we could do something more like scuba gear…well, it would be more that the shape was visible through the outfit, rather than designing the suit to fit the body shape.

    • #30
    • November 17, 2020, at 8:05 AM PST
    • 2 likes