Will Conservatives Fight Each Other for the Next Four Years?

 

I have no idea what will happen over the next month. It’s possible but unlikely that President Trump will be re-elected; it’s also likely that Joe Biden will fill that seat; his winning this election fills me with fear and dread.

But to me, even worse than watching an elderly man who has cognitive problems and misguided ideas become President will be watching the Conservatives at each other’s throats. I foresee those who enthusiastically support Trump holding angry grudges against those who believed that Trump could not overcome the odds or beat back the fraud. And I can imagine those who believed the odds were long will be hated by those who believed that fraud should have been uncovered and Trump should have won.

This outcome is a lose-lose proposition for Conservatives everywhere.

Why do I bring this issue up now? Because in one sense, it doesn’t matter what the results are: we could waste our energy berating each other, blaming the system, and condemning those who were on the opposite side of us.

I’m also raising this issue now because we must focus on the real potential catastrophe: Democrats may very well be in charge of the government at one level or another and their dominance could destroy our country.

Now I will admit that I’m not fond of watching people fight with each other, verbally or otherwise (although I did enjoy the original Karate Kid). But the stakes are too high for us to get sidetracked and fall into Republican reticence of being Mr. Nice Guys or giving up the farm. Instead of fighting with each other over the past, let’s try the following:

  1. Make sure one way or another that a highly credible commission is established to study the results of the election, identify the fraud that occurred, find the mismanagement that was pervasive, and identify solutions. This effort will require identifying which steps should be proposed for the federal government to oversee, and which should be given to the states. If possible, the recommendations should include penalties for breaking or mismanaging the rules. The committee should be bipartisan and should preferably include people who are no longer in government, but have credibility on both sides of the aisle.
  2. Stop crying over spilled milk, no matter who wins. It will have been done. Arguing amongst ourselves is just another kind of distraction and will stall any progress on the part of Republicans. I frankly don’t care if you feel there was massive fraud or if you believe there was fraud, but not enough to make a difference. (I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.) It’s history. Finished. Done.
  3. Let’s figure out the next steps for the Republicans that go beyond fighting the Democrats or re-litigating the election. We need to revamp totally the principles of Conservatism. We need to give up on old hopes that will be lost for the future, such as small government. We need to figure out how to educate people about US history and its goals in moving forward. We need to determine how to best engage people in America and build enthusiasm for 2024.
  4. We must explore the psychological impact of this election and be honest about its effect on ourselves and the people. Each of us should take a good hard look at ourselves and ask what really motivates our antagonism toward our colleagues. I learned a good lesson that is almost always true when it comes to human motivation. We become angry when two aspects of our psyche are challenged: being right and looking good. That means when someone accuses us of being wrong, we defend ourselves, insisting that we are right. It doesn’t matter whether we are “really” right or not; we must protect ourselves from those who question us. “Looking good” describes those characteristics that we value because we think they make us “look good”; they are what you value about yourself, not necessarily what someone else appreciates about us. That means when a person violates your important beliefs about your looking good—being smart, being right, being ethical, being educated—you will have a strong negative reaction and even fight back. I know intimately the limitations of these reactions!

Once we realize that our reactions to others’ challenging us are based on our irrational fears of being discounted, it’s much easier to disregard what they say about us. For example, some men like to tell me I’m reacting “emotionally” to something. Most women hate to be told that; I love it because I can respond by saying, “You’re right! I am emotional. But I’m also smart and knowledgeable.” That usually stops the attack.

* * * * *

My hope for all of us is that we don’t move into the next four years with a chip on our shoulders. Let’s not attack each other; let’s not spend our time in useless arguments. Instead, let’s transform our anger into passion; our concerns into dedication for America; our frustration into a laser-sharp focus. Let’s work together. Let’s help each other.

Let’s set the example of what it means to be proud Americans.

Published in Politics
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 338 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Maguffin Inactive
    Maguffin
    @Maguffin

    Well, if Biden wins after the dust settles and the Democrats have any say, they may very well do a great job of bringing us all back together.  The enemy who is the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing.   Or was it the frenemy who washes the car of my enemy can do my laundry to….something like that.  Memory isn’t what it used to be.

    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords.  Then we can talk.  If they didn’t mean everything they said, well, then they weren’t really conservatives to begin with and if I want to talk to non-conservatives I’ll talk to the Democrats.

     

    • #61
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Maguffin (View Comment):
    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk.

    Interesting point, @Maguffin! But if people continue to actively condemn them, they aren’t going to want to join up with us. Especially if they are attacked by Trump supporters. As I said earlier, you don’t have to “forgive” them or welcome them, but you also don’t have to attack them. 

    • #62
  3. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Maguffin (View Comment):

    Well, if Biden wins after the dust settles and the Democrats have any say, they may very well do a great job of bringing us all back together. The enemy who is the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing. Or was it the frenemy who washes the car of my enemy can do my laundry to….something like that. Memory isn’t what it used to be.

    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk. If they didn’t mean everything they said, well, then they weren’t really conservatives to begin with and if I want to talk to non-conservatives I’ll talk to the Democrats.

    I think the term “NeverTrumper” is often used in different contexts and can describe a varied group of people. 

    Some “Never Trumpers” have openly joined the Democrat party, openly saying that they will vote a straight Democrat ticket during elections and will donate money to Democrat candidates.  

    Other “Never Trumpers” said that they would remain a Republican but would vote against those Republicans who are insufficiently critical of Trump.  But they would vote for a Republicans who frequently spoke out against Trump.

    I have sometimes called myself “Trump skeptical,” but some people have referred to me as a Never Trumper.  I have voted straight Republican tickets for my entire life and continue to do so.  But I did not participate in the presidential race in 2016 and 2020 because of my skepticism regarding Trump.  I still voted for Republican candidates for US Senate and US House and Governor and state legislature.  

    Sometimes when I hear someone complain about Never Trumpers, I initially think they are talking about me.  But then I hear the name Bill Kristol or Jennifer Rubin and I realize they aren’t really talking about me.  

    However, some Trump supporters really do want everyone to swallow their criticisms of Trump, or at least they did prior to the election, because to criticize Trump was to provide indirect rhetorical support for Biden.  I understand that view.  It’s just that if I am honest, I will express criticism of even those politicians I might even vote for.  

    • #63
  4. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Maguffin (View Comment):
    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk.

    Interesting point, @Maguffin! But if people continue to actively condemn them, they aren’t going to want to join up with us. Especially if they are attacked by Trump supporters. As I said earlier, you don’t have to “forgive” them or welcome them, but you also don’t have to attack them.

    So far the Lincoln Project types are still attacking Trump supporters, doxxing Trumps lawyers ect. I might have missed it but I have not seen other prominent Never Trumpers calling them out for this behavior. 

    I don’t have to attack them, I probably shouldn’t attack them, but they do not make it easy.  

    • #64
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Constant Sorrow
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Maguffin (View Comment):
    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk.

    Interesting point, @Maguffin! But if people continue to actively condemn them, they aren’t going to want to join up with us.

    I see no suggestion that NeverTrumpers want to “join with us.” They’re still sneering their condescension at us and gaslighting us on behalf of the Democrat party line. As they did with the Tea Party movement, they’re more likely to join with Democrats to wipe us out.

     

    • #65
  6. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I do think that there are disagreements within the right of center political arena, disagreements that would exist even if Trump had never entered politics.

    Take NATO. One could argue that the United States should avoid any and all alliances, including NATO. I don’t hold that view myself. But I can see how some would take that position.

    Trade. Some could argue that no one should be allowed to purchase any product or service produced from outside the borders of the United States if there is some way to purchase it inside the United States. Call this economic patriotism. You should purchase a car produced in the US, not from Germany, Mexico, Japan or South Korea or anywhere else.

    I don’t hold that view either. But if you were in the US auto industry, this might have some appeal to you.

    Trump said in the first Republican presidential primary debate in 2015 (when there were still about 16 candidates) that he would not cut Medicare or Social Security and he also said that single payer health care works well in Scotland.

    I disgree. But I can understand why people would agree with Trump.

    So, there will be disagreements. There is no getting around that.

    A couple of straw men.  Nobody has said that we should buy only American cars.  The issue with China that you ignore is that they cheat and we accept a huge balance of payments differential.  This began as a theory that capitalism would convert China to a fre market.  It didn’t.  Now, the advocates for “free trade” have more humble reasons.  Bribes like those to Biden.  That is not limited to Democrats, either.  Romney’s chief of staff is on the Burisma Board.

    • #66
  7. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Maguffin (View Comment):
    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk.

    Interesting point, @Maguffin! But if people continue to actively condemn them, they aren’t going to want to join up with us. Especially if they are attacked by Trump supporters. As I said earlier, you don’t have to “forgive” them or welcome them, but you also don’t have to attack them.

    What a thoughtful post and comments!  I read all of them, and while I have moments of disagreements, it was remarkable in that I, for one, didn’t feel attacked.  Thank you so much.  

    • #67
  8. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I don’t think we need to attack anyone. I do think we Republicans need to do a better job of depicting for the country the differences between the two parties. In other words, we need to pick up where Trump left off. I heard him make this point well during his rallies for this election. 

    The primaries is where we choose who will represent our party. The national election is about only the parties. That’s the reality. 

    You cannot be both Democrat and Republican at the same time. 

    • #68
  9. Freeven Member
    Freeven
    @Freeven

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Maguffin (View Comment):
    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk.

    Interesting point, @Maguffin! But if people continue to actively condemn them, they aren’t going to want to join up with us.

    I see no suggestion that NeverTrumpers want to “join with us.” They’re still sneering their condescension at us and gaslighting us on behalf of the Democrat party line. As they did with the Tea Party movement, they’re more likely to join with Democrats to wipe us out.

     

    They don’t want to join with us; they want us to join with them. We’re at an impasse as far as I can tell.

    • #69
  10. Freeven Member
    Freeven
    @Freeven

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I think reducing the size of government as Trump was doing is a worthy goal. I wonder if it’s too late to achieve small government, whatever that means in these times.

    Has Trump reduced the size of government? He’s reduced regulations, which is wonderful, but I think government has continued to grow under Trump. It was a while back, but I think Dan Mitchell took a look at this and concluded that Trump has grown the government more than Obama.

     

    Update:

    I’ve got to run, but a quick search pulled up this article on Mitchell’s site. It’s one of many I’ve read there that looks at government growth in different ways.

    Reckless and Irresponsible: Trump Is Making Big Government Even Bigger

    • #70
  11. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    A couple of straw men. Nobody has said that we should buy only American cars. The issue with China that you ignore is that they cheat and we accept a huge balance of payments differential. This began as a theory that capitalism would convert China to a fre market. It didn’t. Now, the advocates for “free trade” have more humble reasons. Bribes like those to Biden. That is not limited to Democrats, either. Romney’s chief of staff is on the Burisma Board.

    I brought up imported sugar and the fact that the domestic sugar industry is opposed to the importation of sugar from the Caribbean.  There is disagreement over steel tariffs.  You have the people purchase steel so they can use that steel in their manufacturing business and you have people who produce the steel.  

    There is disagreement over lots of issues like this.  

    • #71
  12. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    I empathize with you @susanquinn in trying to make peace between factions and agree in theory that its advisable not to burn bridges/alienate needed allies…

    I’ve enjoyed, taken part in, become bored/repulsed in several of these internecine disagreements. 

    If this (Republicanism? Conservatism?) was an army or business or club, we’d have court-martialed, fired or expelled one another at different times a while ago. Does the future lie in “transactional alliances”? Isn’t that what we’ve really been operating under? 

    None of our respective factions have the numbers to discount those factions we find distasteful/repellent that will be needed in fighting the Left on their neverending incursions. Also unfortunately, each faction has their own ‘lines in the sand’/”You shall not pass! Issues.

    I’ve pretty much resigned myself to think of my “RINO/squish brethren in terms of rope/chain/cable or fishing line strength ratings. Depending on the issue, you’ll know what to expect from each. Unfortunately, in issues great and small, there are very few reasons to keep them, let alone count on them, in the tool/tackle box. 

    They don’t ever seem to feel threatened the way or as often, as many hardcore Conservatives do. The “Flight 93 Election”, The “Binary Choice” doesn’t make a dent. 

    Ok fine, it’s a Big Tent – let’s hope they are never counted on to hold it up as they are teats on a bull useless.

    • #72
  13. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I will never forgive, nor accept back Never Trumpers. They cast their lot with Biden. They can be cast out forever. They are the Scorpion.

     

     

    I guess I didn’t address your comment, Bryan. If you can’t accept them, then ignore them.

    My point seems missed here actually. 

    The point it, they have been revealed for what they are. I will not trust them every again. They will always sting us in the middle of the river. 

    • #73
  14. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    @susanquinn Part of the problem is that Trump’s supporters often like his tactics as much as his ideology. Trump plays to win, and prioritizes victory over being polite and civil.  I don’t want a lecture on why I need to lie back and think of Reagan whenever the Democrats break the laws, cancel people, riot, and crush dissent.   Civility is nice, as is unity, but never at the price of surrender.

    What galls me is the idea that people want to just let the Democrats get away with fraud and crime, doing whatever the hell they want because of unity or some such nonsense.   I want one rule for everyone, right and left, black and white, elite and commoner.  If that is upsetting and causes unrest, too bad.

    Basically, I see a definite dividing line between people who think Democrat rule is a minor inconvenience, and people who think it will be horrendous.  That’s not going to be patched up, despite your best efforts.

    Also, I agree with @drewinwisconsin that the division is globalist vs. nationalist.  Also, woke vs. counter-woke – I know people who are outright socialists but are against woke dogma, and I feel I have more in common with them than your average columnist at the Dispatch.  Since the 2000s, conservatives have moved from feeling in command of the government, to being threatened by the government, as corporations have turned woke.

    Basically, we need more Kavanaugh and less Roberts in our leaders.

    • #74
  15. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Maguffin (View Comment):

    Well, if Biden wins after the dust settles and the Democrats have any say, they may very well do a great job of bringing us all back together. The enemy who is the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing. Or was it the frenemy who washes the car of my enemy can do my laundry to….something like that. Memory isn’t what it used to be.

    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk. If they didn’t mean everything they said, well, then they weren’t really conservatives to begin with and if I want to talk to non-conservatives I’ll talk to the Democrats.

     

    Don’t hold your breath. 

    Also, they helped to usher it in, so if they do go after the new overlords, it will be hollow. They asked for it. 

     

    • #75
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Maguffin (View Comment):

    Well, if Biden wins after the dust settles and the Democrats have any say, they may very well do a great job of bringing us all back together. The enemy who is the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing. Or was it the frenemy who washes the car of my enemy can do my laundry to….something like that. Memory isn’t what it used to be.

    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk. If they didn’t mean everything they said, well, then they weren’t really conservatives to begin with and if I want to talk to non-conservatives I’ll talk to the Democrats.

    I think the term “NeverTrumper” is often used in different contexts and can describe a varied group of people.

    Some “Never Trumpers” have openly joined the Democrat party, openly saying that they will vote a straight Democrat ticket during elections and will donate money to Democrat candidates.

    Other “Never Trumpers” said that they would remain a Republican but would vote against those Republicans who are insufficiently critical of Trump. But they would vote for a Republicans who frequently spoke out against Trump.

    I have sometimes called myself “Trump skeptical,” but some people have referred to me as a Never Trumper. I have voted straight Republican tickets for my entire life and continue to do so. But I did not participate in the presidential race in 2016 and 2020 because of my skepticism regarding Trump. I still voted for Republican candidates for US Senate and US House and Governor and state legislature.

    Sometimes when I hear someone complain about Never Trumpers, I initially think they are talking about me. But then I hear the name Bill Kristol or Jennifer Rubin and I realize they aren’t really talking about me.

    However, some Trump supporters really do want everyone to swallow their criticisms of Trump, or at least they did prior to the election, because to criticize Trump was to provide indirect rhetorical support for Biden. I understand that view. It’s just that if I am honest, I will express criticism of even those politicians I might even vote for.

    I do not think you are an NT. I have always found you annoying and often disagree with you, but I have not found you to be either a NT. I do think that you step over the line in your disdain for Trump supporters though. 

    • #76
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Maguffin (View Comment):
    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk.

    Interesting point, @Maguffin! But if people continue to actively condemn them, they aren’t going to want to join up with us. Especially if they are attacked by Trump supporters. As I said earlier, you don’t have to “forgive” them or welcome them, but you also don’t have to attack them.

    What a thoughtful post and comments! I read all of them, and while I have moments of disagreements, it was remarkable in that I, for one, didn’t feel attacked. Thank you so much.

     

    Because you are not someone we can trust.

    • #77
  18. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I have sometimes called myself “Trump skeptical,” but some people have referred to me as a Never Trumper. I have voted straight Republican tickets for my entire life and continue to do so. But I did not participate in the presidential race in 2016 and 2020 because of my skepticism regarding Trump. I still voted for Republican candidates for US Senate and US House and Governor and state legislature.

    Sometimes when I hear someone complain about Never Trumpers, I initially think they are talking about me. But then I hear the name Bill Kristol or Jennifer Rubin and I realize they aren’t really talking about me.

    However, some Trump supporters really do want everyone to swallow their criticisms of Trump, or at least they did prior to the election, because to criticize Trump was to provide indirect rhetorical support for Biden. I understand that view. It’s just that if I am honest, I will express criticism of even those politicians I might even vote for.

    I do not think you are an NT. I have always found you annoying and often disagree with you, but I have not found you to be either a NT. I do think that you step over the line in your disdain for Trump supporters though.

    I have found that whenever I presented a criticism of Trump, it would be dismissed because it’s just not acceptable to disagree with Trump because, after all, Trump won while Romney and McCain lost.  

    Now that Trump has both won and lost, winning in 2016 and losing in 2020, I hope people can be more reflective about what Trump did right and what Trump did wrong, how Trump convinced voters to vote for him and how Trump repelled voters into Joe Biden’s column.  

    That would be a productive conversation.  I don’t think one has to either argue that everything Trump said and did was horrible or that everything that Trump said and did was awesome.  

    Perhaps in about six months or a year that conversation can be had.  

    • #78
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Susan Quinn: We become angry when two aspects of our psyche are challenged: being right and looking good.

    Maybe i misunderstand you.  I’m not sure I see it this way.  I think I take the other view.  It’s not necessarily about our own sense of self or ego.

    Trust is an important part of friendship or even just getting along.  If trust is completely and irrevocably broken, the interpersonal relationship becomes very shallow and unproductive.

    In an emotional sense, people do get angry when lied to, cheated, or defrauded — apart from ego.  And similarly in a physical sense, people get angry when they are abused: physically threatened, or their property or inalienable rights are threatened.  And this is very much a matter of “defending ourselves” — but not defending our egos.

    There is a word for people who are antagonistic to others, especially those seeking to injure, overthrow, or confound others: enemy.  The word exists because the condition exists.  It is then incumbent upon us to love, or to at least extend good will, toward our enemies.  But it doesn’t categorically change the nature of the relationship.

    • #79
  20. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Trump is not going away, nor he should he, given the level of support he has.

    I’m assuming, however, that a combination of Nevers and doctrinaire conservatives will come up with reasonably credible to actually credible  primary challengers from the deep bench the Republicans have.  No, I’m not talking Ben Sasse.

    It will be interesting to see how much acrimony we see if/when credible challengers arrive for the ’24 nomination.  Tom Cotton?  Nicky Haley?  Tim Scott?  There are quite a few who have “waited their turns.”

    • #80
  21. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    The neo con RINO’s who insist their wise analysis regarding Trump being a douche matters more than his ability to right the economy, keep us out of any new wars, fight on thebehalf of the middle class, pull us away from the Global Climate Change dilemma – those RINO’s can expect a huge fight from the rest of us.

    Why we would allow these Globalists anything more than a thrust of one’s finger into the “ignore button” when we are on blogs that furnish such, I could not tell you.

    They do not even mind Global Climate Change, as long as they can kickstart a business venture that produces wind turbines, solar panels or carbon sinking metal monstrosities designed to replace trees. If their enthusiasm for Global Climate Change allows them to reap profits, so be it. After all, they have lawyers to allow them tax breaks, while we in the lower classes will be paying the increased taxes on everything from hamburger to gasoline.

    They also are most enthusiastic about restrictions on the citizens relating to COVID. After all, if Gavin Newsom can put together a one billion dollar insider trading deal on masks, why can’t they help whatever Senators they own do the same exact thing?

    • #81
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    It really seems to be something like “American” vs. “Globalist.” Still not quite able to put it into words, but on one side are all of us who still believe in this thing called America, with all its faults, but also with all its aspirations as laid out in our founding documents.

    I think that your word choices are correct.  Here in the US, perhaps American versus anti-American is right as well.  Globalism definitely wants to erase American culture and politics.  This election was (whether the left realizes it or not) was between Americanism and the forces of Globalism.

    • #82
  23. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    Flicker (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    It really seems to be something like “American” vs. “Globalist.” Still not quite able to put it into words, but on one side are all of us who still believe in this thing called America, with all its faults, but also with all its aspirations as laid out in our founding documents.

    I think that your word choices are correct. Here in the US, perhaps American versus anti-American is right as well. Globalism definitely wants to erase American culture and politics. This election was (whether the left realizes it or not) was between Americanism and the forces of Globalism.

    Sadly those on the Left remain as clueless as ever.

    I was on this blog about the psychology of tolerance and love. And the psychologist was stating that it was easy to see that the political party whose members understood the need to be tolerant kind and loving were those on the Left.

    Immediately one of this therapist’s supporters stated, “We are all so happy to see that even some of the top conservatives from the Republican Party are now embracing Biden.”

    I tried for a minute or two to point out how that should serve as  a warning about who Biden is, if the RINOs are so  eager to vote for him. But since the group had already identified me as an intolerant racist, I doubt they understood my meaning.

    And just think about it, this Leftist shrink is the type of person who now teaches at our institutes of higher learning.

    • #83
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I will never forgive, nor accept back Never Trumpers. They cast their lot with Biden. They can be cast out forever. They are the Scorpion.

    I guess I didn’t address your comment, Bryan. If you can’t accept them, then ignore them.

    No Bryan. You must fight them. The NeverTrump fools are taking actions to destroy America and they must be opposed.

    Yes. Incremental compromise is incremental ruin.

    • #84
  25. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    Flicker (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I will never forgive, nor accept back Never Trumpers. They cast their lot with Biden. They can be cast out forever. They are the Scorpion.

    I guess I didn’t address your comment, Bryan. If you can’t accept them, then ignore them.

    No Bryan. You must fight them. The NeverTrump fools are taking actions to destroy America and they must be opposed.

    Yes. Incremental compromise is incremental ruin.

    The frog who was slowly boiled past his tolerance would vouch for the idea that “Incremental compromise is incremental ruin,” if he had simply survived such torture.

    • #85
  26. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I have sometimes called myself “Trump skeptical,” but some people have referred to me as a Never Trumper. I have voted straight Republican tickets for my entire life and continue to do so. But I did not participate in the presidential race in 2016 and 2020 because of my skepticism regarding Trump. I still voted for Republican candidates for US Senate and US House and Governor and state legislature.

    Sometimes when I hear someone complain about Never Trumpers, I initially think they are talking about me. But then I hear the name Bill Kristol or Jennifer Rubin and I realize they aren’t really talking about me.

    However, some Trump supporters really do want everyone to swallow their criticisms of Trump, or at least they did prior to the election, because to criticize Trump was to provide indirect rhetorical support for Biden. I understand that view. It’s just that if I am honest, I will express criticism of even those politicians I might even vote for.

    I do not think you are an NT. I have always found you annoying and often disagree with you, but I have not found you to be either a NT. I do think that you step over the line in your disdain for Trump supporters though.

    I have found that whenever I presented a criticism of Trump, it would be dismissed because it’s just not acceptable to disagree with Trump because, after all, Trump won while Romney and McCain lost.

    Now that Trump has both won and lost, winning in 2016 and losing in 2020, I hope people can be more reflective about what Trump did right and what Trump did wrong, how Trump convinced voters to vote for him and how Trump repelled voters into Joe Biden’s column.

    That would be a productive conversation. I don’t think one has to either argue that everything Trump said and did was horrible or that everything that Trump said and did was awesome.

    Perhaps in about six months or a year that conversation can be had.

    You need to differentiate between real arguments and straw men.  Trump was a new phenomenon in US politics. In a way, he resembled Teddy Roosevelt.  Both were public figures but Roosevelt brought us “Progressivism.”  On reducing government, Trump had no chance. The entire government was in revolt.  Read Lou Smith’s book if you want the details. Trump has an abrasive personality in public.  I have read that he is different in private, domineering but not rude. He kept his promises insofar as it was possible.  That is unique in US politicians since Eisenhower.  Both parties are corrupt.

    • #86
  27. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Susan Quinn: Will Conservatives Fight Each Other for the Next Four Years?

    Why should the next four years be any different from the past 244?

    ;-)

    • #87
  28. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Susan, I don’t think that much reconciliation is necessary.

    The anti-Trump Republicans look like a tiny group, as far as I can tell.  I don’t trust polling much, given the recent errors both here and abroad, but for what the polls are worth, Trump appears to have both increased the number of Republicans, and increased his vote share among Republicans.

    This year (here), Republicans were 36% of voters, and Trump won among Republicans 94-6.  This is up from 2016 (here), in which Republicans were 33% of voters and Trump won them 88-8.

    Evaluating these is a bit complicated, because party affiliation can change from year to year.

    • #88
  29. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Maguffin (View Comment):

    So, if the NeverTrumpers really meant everything they said about it all being about Trump, I’ll start seeing their fervent attacks against our new overlords. Then we can talk. If they didn’t mean everything they said, well, then they weren’t really conservatives to begin with and if I want to talk to non-conservatives I’ll talk to the Democrats.

    If they actively voted for Biden, or practically any other Democrat at this point, they are simply not conservative: period.  In their case, the Scorpion and the Frog is the correct allegory.  

    As for the NeverTrumpers who simply couldn’t emotionally bring themselves to vote for someone they despised, I’ll treat them like squishes and welcome back any who do not insist on being insufferable, or who do try to boot out factions of the Trump coalition.

    • #89
  30. Dennis A. Garcia (formerly Gai… Inactive
    Dennis A. Garcia (formerly Gai…
    @Gaius

    If you think a conservative movement that has abandoned small govt. is worth keeping around, then yeah we’re back to square one.

    The rapid entrenchment of the voter fraud narrative is slowly throttling my hope that the gop can be a force for good in the long term. I’m still happy for Mitch and the almost assured Republican senate. But the kind of conservative that can work within the system is seeming like a relic.

    I can only hope that the mythical reluctant trumpers, who voted for Trump but don’t believe his lies, are actually out there and will show up in the next two cycles, but I’m not seeing them on Ricochet or among the Trump voters in my life.

    I don’t want to get into the factual argument on voter fraud here. I’ve done that on other threads enough already. Let it suffice to say that I don’t find the allegations credible and most of the people reading this probably feel otherwise.

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.