Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Missouri, Ohio and Other States Now Suing Pennsylvania – Amicus Briefs Filed with SCOTUS

 

The proverbial Fat Lady just sat down and is taking an extended break. It ain’t over folks. It’s just getting started.

Here is an excerpt from the Ohio Amicus Brief (emphasis mine):

STATEMENT OF AMICUS INTEREST AND SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT*

Ohio is not here because it objects, as a policy matter, to absentee voting. To the contrary, “[t]here is nodispute that Ohio is generous when it comes to absentee voting—especially when compared to other states.” Mays v. LaRose, 951 F.3d 775, 779–80 (6th Cir. 2020). Ohio’s interest in this case also has nothing to do with any abstract concern about counting ballots received after Election Day. In fact, Ohio itself counts absentee ballots received within ten days of Election Day, as long as those ballots are postmarked by the day before Election Day. Ohio Rev. Code §3509.05(B)(1).

Ohio is interested in this case because reversal is crucial to protecting the Constitution’s division of authority over state election laws. The United States Constitution says that “[e]ach State shall appoint” electors “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.” Art. II, §1, cl.2 (emphasis added). The Pennsylvania legislature directed that electors for the 2020 election would be chosen through votes cast in person and by absentee ballot. But it expressly mandated that absentee ballots would count only if received by 8 p.m. on Election Day. Pet.App.16a (quot- ing 25 P.S. §3150.16(a)). Instead of respecting that decision, Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court rewrote state law, ordering election officials to count ballots—including ballots with no postmarks or illegible postmarks—received within three days after Election Day.

I guess other states have an issue with voter suppression of their results from another state in a federal election that could unlawfully elect Mr. Biden.

Does everyone have enough popcorn?

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  1. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Not only has the Fat Lady sung. She’s already performed the entire opera.

    This is how far behind Trump is right now.

    Biden leads Trump by

    35,000 votes in Nevada (6 electoral votes)

    45,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20)

    14,000 votes in Arizona (11)

    12,000 votes in Georgia (16)

    20,000 votes in Wisconsin (10)

    145,000 votes in Michigan (16)

    This election is over, except Trump’s attorneys need to make some more money off of the MAGA crowd. So, please donate to Trump’s Legal Defense Fund.

    And everyone said that Trump wasn’t wiretapped. Remember way back then? It turns out that everyone who said he wasn’t wiretapped was either lying or stupid.

    Which were you?

    Ah, changing the subject, are we?

    HeavyWater, you believed a proposition for which you had no empirical evidence.

    That proposition was later proved false.

    Let that sink in for a little while.

    You aren’t making any sense. You are writing in very vague language so that it isn’t possible to know what the heck you are talking about.

    1. Without evidence, you believed A.
    2. ¬A. 

    I don’t think I can break it down any plainer than that.

    • #91
    • November 10, 2020, at 8:43 AM PST
    • 1 like
  2. HeavyWater Coolidge

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Like I said. No court of law has rules that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted improperly or contrary to state law or court order.

    And no court has ruled that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted properly, or in accordance with state law and court order. So what’s your point?

    My point is that Biden has won the state of Pennsylvania and people should quit living in fantasy land.

    It’s as if people in this discussion forum have never been through an election cycle in which candidates they supported lost. I guess we are to think that when our candidates win, the election was conducted fairly and when our candidates lose, the election was stolen. Donald Trump is a Republican version of Stacey Abrams.

    • #92
    • November 10, 2020, at 8:44 AM PST
    • Like
  3. Seawriter Contributor

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Like I said. No court of law has rules that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted improperly or contrary to state law or court order.

    And no court has ruled that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted properly, or in accordance with state law and court order. So what’s your point?

    My point is that Biden has won the state of Pennsylvania and people should quit living in fantasy land.

    Youi seem to be sayiong there can be no accusation of vote fraud, because the court has not ruled there is vote fraud, and the court cannot rule on the accusation of vote fraud because it cannot be brought beforce the court because the court has yet not ruled the election was conducted improperly or conntrary to state law. Got it.

    And you accuse others of living in a fantasy land. Sheesh,

    • #93
    • November 10, 2020, at 8:51 AM PST
    • 12 likes
  4. HeavyWater Coolidge

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Not only has the Fat Lady sung. She’s already performed the entire opera.

    This is how far behind Trump is right now.

    Biden leads Trump by

    35,000 votes in Nevada (6 electoral votes)

    45,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20)

    14,000 votes in Arizona (11)

    12,000 votes in Georgia (16)

    20,000 votes in Wisconsin (10)

    145,000 votes in Michigan (16)

    This election is over, except Trump’s attorneys need to make some more money off of the MAGA crowd. So, please donate to Trump’s Legal Defense Fund.

    And everyone said that Trump wasn’t wiretapped. Remember way back then? It turns out that everyone who said he wasn’t wiretapped was either lying or stupid.

    Which were you?

    Ah, changing the subject, are we?

    HeavyWater, you believed a proposition for which you had no empirical evidence.

    That proposition was later proved false.

    Let that sink in for a little while.

    You aren’t making any sense. You are writing in very vague language so that it isn’t possible to know what the heck you are talking about.

    1. Without evidence, you believed A.
    2. ¬A.

    I don’t think I can break it down any plainer than that.

    It’s not clear that A is. You are accusing me of believing some unspecified “thing” without evidence. Care to provide a hint as to what that “thing” is?

    • #94
    • November 10, 2020, at 8:54 AM PST
    • Like
  5. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    HW and Valiuth:

    I think that both of you have asserted that the Pennsylvania mail-in ballots that were received after the deadline set by the legislature — 8 pm on election day, I think — have not been counted.

    I was unable to find any current information online about this. Do you have a source for this?

    I genuinely don’t know whether those questionable votes have been counted or not, nor could I find a report of how many such votes there are.

    Absent such information, it seems quite premature to conclude that the result is final.

    I also don’t know how many votes remain to be counted, if any, in other important states — especially Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin.

    Nevada does appear to have trended more strongly in Biden’s direction over the past couple of days.

    • #95
    • November 10, 2020, at 8:59 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  6. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    In Pennsylvania, 638,000 ballots were counted outside of GOP observer review. So, I don’t think you can claim with a high degree of confidence that ballots were properly segregated from the vote count following Alito’s order. Of course, if you were physically present when these 638,000 ballots were logged in and counted and can verify that the dates on ballot envelopes were recorded before being handled and have any video evidence to support that, then I suppose all concerns can be dismissed.

    No court of law has established that 638,000 ballots were counted in a manner that would violate election procedures. This has merely been asserted.

    Asserted by observers who have submitted affidavits who were not permitted to observe the canvasing on scene at the distance the law allowed and now part of a lawsuit that’s been filed in Harrisburg. I realize if you’re in the Biden camp this can be most annoying. Look for more annoyances to come.

    Like I said. No court of law has ruled that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted improperly or contrary to state law or court order.

    Like I said. Asserted by observers who have submitted affidavits who were not permitted to observe the canvasing on scene at the distance the law allowed and now part of a lawsuit that’s been filed in Harrisburg. I realize if you’re in the Biden camp this can be most annoying. Look for more annoyances to come.

    We can do this all day if you’d like.

    • #96
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:00 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  7. HeavyWater Coolidge

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    HW and Valiuth:

    I think that both of you have asserted that the Pennsylvania mail-in ballots that were received after the deadline set by the legislature — 8 pm on election day, I think — have not been counted.

    I was unable to find any current information online about this. Do you have a source for this?

    I genuinely don’t know whether those questionable votes have been counted or not, nor could I find a report of how many such votes there are.

    Absent such information, it seems quite premature to conclude that the result is final.

    I also don’t know how many votes remain to be counted, if any, in other important states — especially Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin.

    Nevada does appear to have trended more strongly in Biden’s direction over the past couple of days.

    I read that those ballots have been segregated from the ballots received by 8pm election day. But I do not have a link that I can provide to you.

    As for the “result if final,” I think this election result is about as final as other election results have been a few days after an election. People started calling Trump President elect after the 2016 election despite gripes about “Russia.”

    • #97
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:02 AM PST
    • Like
  8. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    In Pennsylvania, 638,000 ballots were counted outside of GOP observer review. So, I don’t think you can claim with a high degree of confidence that ballots were properly segregated from the vote count following Alito’s order. Of course, if you were physically present when these 638,000 ballots were logged in and counted and can verify that the dates on ballot envelopes were recorded before being handled and have any video evidence to support that, then I suppose all concerns can be dismissed.

    This is pure bunk. Republicans had plenty of observes in the counting rooms in PA. Before a district judge Trump’s lawyers confirmed that indeed a “nonezero number” of GOP observers were present. The burden of proof rests with you, and you have no evidence of shenanigans. Your whole argument is constructed of fabrications, conjectures, wild speculation, and motivated reasoning. I’d say it is pathetic, but it is worse than that. It is deliberate and malicious. 

    • #98
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:02 AM PST
    • 1 like
  9. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Like I said. No court of law has rules that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted improperly or contrary to state law or court order.

    And no court has ruled that the Pennsylvania vote count has been conducted properly, or in accordance with state law and court order. So what’s your point?

    My point is that Biden has won the state of Pennsylvania and people should quit living in fantasy land.

    It’s as if people in this discussion forum have never been through an election cycle in which candidates they supported lost. I guess we are to think that when our candidates win, the election was conducted fairly and when our candidates lose, the election was stolen. Donald Trump is a Republican version of Stacey Abrams.

    Like I said. The entire election results in Pennsylvania are going to be audited by the GOP-controlled legislature. The Supreme Court will also make a ruling on the constitutionality of the concocted unconstitutional Pennsylvania law. And there are other lawsuits that have been filed. To dismiss all of that out of hand is delusional but then you maybe more familiar with fantasy land than the rest of us. I personally haven’t been to Fantasy Land since Governor Newsom shut down Disneyland.

    • #99
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:07 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  10. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

     

    But, with respect to Pennsylvania’s post 8PM mail in ballots all of those have been segregated from the vote count pending legal review. The current count in Pennsylvania at the moment only includes votes cast on election day or absentee ballots received by 8PM on election day. So if these late ballots are ruled invalid, then Biden still wins the state of Pennsylvania by 45,000 votes. If they are ruled valid then Biden’s margin of victory will most likely change but not be erased, since I think there aren’t even enough ballots outstanding to remove a 45,000 vote lead if they went 100% for Trump (which is to say very unlikely). Most likely Biden lead would grow given the break down of mail in ballots so far in PA.

    When you live in a conspiratorial fantasy land facts and the proper interpretation of facts doesn’t matter. It is just a free form puzzle to assemble on a corkboard with colored strings connecting the dots.

    In Pennsylvania, 638,000 ballots were counted outside of GOP observer review. So, I don’t think you can claim with a high degree of confidence that ballots were properly segregated from the vote count following Alito’s order. Of course, if you were physically present when these 638,000 ballots were logged in and counted and can verify that the dates on ballot envelopes were recorded before being handled and have any video evidence to support that, then I suppose all concerns can be dismissed.

    As I commented, as of Friday night the Sec. of the Commonwealth could not confirm to Alito that the ballots were segregated and not included in the count. I’ve not seen any update since then, and it’s highly probable that a good number of those ballots were included in the count.

    @valiuth, if you have a link to an update I’d appreciate it.

    And on Saturday they did confirm that the segregation of ballots was occurring, Incidentally the order to segregate the ballots was given even before Alito gave his order by state election officials. Guess you weren’t interested enough to keep up with the news. Its okay it took me a whole 2 minutes to look this up on Google. But then again can you trust USA today or the various county officials giving this confirmation? Can any conspiracy theory be disproven to an adherent? I won’t hold my breath.

    • #100
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:12 AM PST
    • Like
  11. Ralphie Member

    Hillary could have done similar. The recounts were adding votes to Trump. There was no there, there for her. 

    I don’t know that she filed a single suit, and that is odd if so many Democrats are sure the last one was stolen, esp with foreign influence. 

     

    • #101
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:13 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  12. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    The problem for Trump is that Biden is ahead of Trump in Pennsylvania by about 45,000 votes and those late absentee ballots have been placed in a separate pile, currently uncounted.

    Basically, Trump’s changes of prevailing in this election are similar to the chances of my cat writing poetry.

    But I do give Trump and his allies credit. They are shaking down the MAGA crowd for donations to Trump’s Legal Defense Fund. Trump attorneys and consultants will make tons of money on this, even though they are nearly guaranteed to lose.

    There are many other problems which could easily shift the vote by more than 45K. Please give a reference for the late absentee votes being separated. Alito ordered this but some are claiming that it is not being done.

    Oh Some People. Well those guys are always right. Are they the same people “that say”? 

    • #102
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:14 AM PST
    • Like
  13. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Not only has the Fat Lady sung. She’s already performed the entire opera.

    This is how far behind Trump is right now.

    Biden leads Trump by

    35,000 votes in Nevada (6 electoral votes)

    45,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20)

    14,000 votes in Arizona (11)

    12,000 votes in Georgia (16)

    20,000 votes in Wisconsin (10)

    145,000 votes in Michigan (16)

    This election is over, except Trump’s attorneys need to make some more money off of the MAGA crowd. So, please donate to Trump’s Legal Defense Fund.

    And everyone said that Trump wasn’t wiretapped. Remember way back then? It turns out that everyone who said he wasn’t wiretapped was either lying or stupid.

    Which were you?

    Ah, changing the subject, are we?

    HeavyWater, you believed a proposition for which you had no empirical evidence.

    That proposition was later proved false.

    Let that sink in for a little while.

    You aren’t making any sense. You are writing in very vague language so that it isn’t possible to know what the heck you are talking about.

    The lack of proof is simply proof of the depth of the conspiracy. The weaker, flimsier, and less reliable the evidence the larger more widespread and pervasive the conspiracy. This is what we are seeing unfold on these threads. This is what Ricochet is helping to establish and create. A community of conspiracy minded wackos feeding and confirming each others delusions. Hey it must be true there are all these people on the internet who agree. 

     

    • #103
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:21 AM PST
    • 1 like
  14. HeavyWater Coolidge

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    In Pennsylvania, 638,000 ballots were counted outside of GOP observer review. So, I don’t think you can claim with a high degree of confidence that ballots were properly segregated from the vote count following Alito’s order. Of course, if you were physically present when these 638,000 ballots were logged in and counted and can verify that the dates on ballot envelopes were recorded before being handled and have any video evidence to support that, then I suppose all concerns can be dismissed.

    This is pure bunk. Republicans had plenty of observes in the counting rooms in PA. Before a district judge Trump’s lawyers confirmed that indeed a “nonezero number” of GOP observers were present. The burden of proof rests with you, and you have no evidence of shenanigans. Your whole argument is constructed of fabrications, conjectures, wild speculation, and motivated reasoning. I’d say it is pathetic, but it is worse than that. It is deliberate and malicious.

    I think it’s more pathetic than malicious. I think that some people have allowed their extreme disappointment over the election results to override their ability to evaluate claims.

    • #104
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:21 AM PST
    • Like
  15. philo Member

    Segregated does not imply uncounted.

    • #105
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:22 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  16. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Moderator Note:

    This kind of personal attack is over the line.

     

    • #106
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:30 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  17. HeavyWater Coolidge

    philo (View Comment):

    Segregated does not imply uncounted.

    True. But sort of irrelevant to the question of how likely it is that Trump could end up winning Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes. 

    Biden is ahead of Trump by about 45,000 votes without any votes from the late arriving ballots. Biden is ahead by 0.6 percent of the total vote, above the 0.5 percent recount threshhold.

    So, Pennsylvania is a goner, which means that Trump is a goner.

    The smart move for conservatives is to direct their attention to the 2 US Senate races in Georgia. Sure, one could pursue voter fraud charges in the Trump v Biden race while also engaging in Georgia senate races. But a careful appraisal of the facts in the presidential election, detached from too much emotional investment, would result in the conclusion that Trump lost and his fortunes will not be resurrected.

    • #107
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:32 AM PST
    • Like
  18. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    In Pennsylvania, 638,000 ballots were counted outside of GOP observer review. So, I don’t think you can claim with a high degree of confidence that ballots were properly segregated from the vote count following Alito’s order. Of course, if you were physically present when these 638,000 ballots were logged in and counted and can verify that the dates on ballot envelopes were recorded before being handled and have any video evidence to support that, then I suppose all concerns can be dismissed.

    This is pure bunk. Republicans had plenty of observes in the counting rooms in PA. Before a district judge Trump’s lawyers confirmed that indeed a “nonezero number” of GOP observers were present. The burden of proof rests with you, and you have no evidence of shenanigans. Your whole argument is constructed of fabrications, conjectures, wild speculation, and motivated reasoning. I’d say it is pathetic, but it is worse than that. It is deliberate and malicious.

    “…were counted outside of GOP observer review.” Not just in the same large warehouse. Reading can be hard.

    • #108
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:34 AM PST
    • 1 like
  19. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    <edited for length>

    HeavyWater, you believed a proposition for which you had no empirical evidence.

    That proposition was later proved false.

    Let that sink in for a little while.

    You aren’t making any sense. You are writing in very vague language so that it isn’t possible to know what the heck you are talking about.

    The lack of proof is simply proof of the depth of the conspiracy. The weaker, flimsier, and less reliable the evidence the larger more widespread and pervasive the conspiracy. This is what we are seeing unfold on these threads. This is what Ricochet is helping to establish and create. A community of conspiracy minded wackos feeding and confirming each others delusions. Hey it must be true there are all these people on the internet who agree.

    So expressing that claims of voter fraud should be looked into based 50 sworn affidavits from GOP, Democrat and non-affiliated observers and that what may verified could alter the vote count in Trump’s favor is dismissed now as delusions by conspiracy minded wackos, really? Is that you’re rock-sold rebuttal? Profound.

    This Chicago attorney who was on site in Pittsburgh must also be a conspiracy theorist. From JustTheNews:

    Pennsylvania poll watcher: ‘We literally had no input and no ability to watch anything’

    At some point during the process—out of sight of poll watchers — the ballots were checked for “sufficiency,” with workers ensuring that the addresses, dates and signatures were properly affixed to each ballot, Shestokas said.

    Eventually ballots made their way back to a central processing area, but watchers were placed far enough away that they were more or less incapable of properly observing the process, he added.

    “All of the folks who were observers for campaigns were maybe 15, 20 feet from many of the tables, in a coral,” he said. “Other tables may have been 100-150 feet away. We were not allowed to go outside the corral in the one huge room.”

    Shestokas said ballots were eventually fed into scanning equipment in another, smaller room. Overall, he said, poll watchers were effectively unable to give the oversight for which they were present. 

    “We literally had no input and no ability to watch anything,” he said. “As far as I’m concerned, each and every one of those ballots was opened illegally.”

     

    • #109
    • November 10, 2020, at 9:54 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  20. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    HW and Valiuth:

    I don’t think that you provided a link indicating what was going on in Pennsylvania in answer to my question, but Valiuth did post this:

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    MWD B612 &quot;Dawg&quot; (View Comment):

    . . .

    @valiuth, if you have a link to an update I’d appreciate it.

    And on Saturday they did confirm that the segregation of ballots was occurring, Incidentally the order to segregate the ballots was given even before Alito gave his order by state election officials. Guess you weren’t interested enough to keep up with the news. Its okay it took me a whole 2 minutes to look this up on Google. But then again can you trust USA today or the various county officials giving this confirmation? Can any conspiracy theory be disproven to an adherent? I won’t hold my breath.

    The link is to a USA Today article. The article says, in pertinent part:

    Pennsylvania officials said in a memo Saturday that ballots received after Election Day were being segregated and tallied separately, in response to a Republican injunction filed this week that alleged the ballots were not being segregated in all counties.

    The Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General, on behalf of Democratic Secretary of the Commonwealth Kathy Boockvar, said in the memo that the secretary’s guidance to counties to segregate ballots was “unambiguous.”

    “There is no evidence that any county is disobeying that clear guidance to segregate these votes, and the Republican Party offers only speculation that certain unidentified counties may ignore that repeated guidance or that the Secretary will inconsistently change course,” the memo said.

    I have two comments about this. 

    First, the claim of the Pennsylvania AG that there is a lack of evidence of a county disobeying guidance to segregate the late-arrived votes is not the same thing as a denial of wrongdoing. I do not conclude that wrongdoing has occurred. But this is a sort of non-denial denial. At the moment, I hope that the late-arriving votes have been properly segregated.

    Second, this story indicates that the late-arrived votes “were being segregated and tallied separately,” which suggests that they have been included in the reported Pennsylvania vote counts, but is not conclusive on this point.

    Accordingly, I conclude that we don’t yet know whether the late-arrived votes are included in the Pennsylvania reported count. If they are, those votes may be invalidated by SCOTUS, and this might change the result in Pennsylvania.

    • #110
    • November 10, 2020, at 10:08 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  21. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    • #111
    • November 10, 2020, at 10:10 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  22. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Not only has the Fat Lady sung. She’s already performed the entire opera.

    This is how far behind Trump is right now.

    Biden leads Trump by

    35,000 votes in Nevada (6 electoral votes)

    45,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20)

    14,000 votes in Arizona (11)

    12,000 votes in Georgia (16)

    20,000 votes in Wisconsin (10)

    145,000 votes in Michigan (16)

    This election is over, except Trump’s attorneys need to make some more money off of the MAGA crowd. So, please donate to Trump’s Legal Defense Fund.

    And everyone said that Trump wasn’t wiretapped. Remember way back then? It turns out that everyone who said he wasn’t wiretapped was either lying or stupid.

    Which were you?

    In fairness I think there’s a third option: negligently uncurious. It’s a little from both columns yet not quite all one or the other.

    • #112
    • November 10, 2020, at 10:21 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  23. Jager Coolidge
    JagerJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    The lack of proof is simply proof of the depth of the conspiracy. The weaker, flimsier, and less reliable the evidence the larger more widespread and pervasive the conspiracy. This is what we are seeing unfold on these threads. This is what Ricochet is helping to establish and create. A community of conspiracy minded wackos feeding and confirming each others delusions. Hey it must be true there are all these people on the internet who agree.

     

    In the run up and after math of the 2016 election, lots of people, including people on these pages, assured us that Trump was a Russian plant, elected by collusion, who was destined to pursue a leftist agenda while causing nuclear war. None of which was true. But I guess none of these members were a “community of conspiracy minded wackos” who were delusional because you agreed with there analysis?

    In 2000 Bush v Gore went to the Courts over vote irregularities and vote counting. We allowed this process to play out over the course of over a month. These things do happen in real life not just delusions. 

    There are documented cases of poll watchers not being allowed to actually see what was happening, there was a documented “glitch” in the voting software that gave Trump votes to Biden. There are, as there always are in Democratic cities, credible reports of dead people voting. This stuff all happened. 

    These could all be isolated incidents that have no impact on the result, but it is not crazy to ask that these things be investigated, adjudicated and that the proper election laws be followed.

     

    • #113
    • November 10, 2020, at 10:22 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  24. MarciN Member

    This lawsuit reminds me of the argument the law-abiding small businesses in the south were making against the influx of illegal immigrants. The law-abiding businesses had to compete on price against the law-breaking businesses who were taking advantage of the low cost of illegal immigrant labor. It wasn’t fair to the law-abiding businesses for the government to allow illegal immigration to continue.

    This is a similar issue. It isn’t fair for the law-abiding candidates to have to compete against the law-breaking candidates.

    • #114
    • November 10, 2020, at 10:56 AM PST
    • 6 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  25. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Not only has the Fat Lady sung. She’s already performed the entire opera.

    This is how far behind Trump is right now.

    Biden leads Trump by

    35,000 votes in Nevada (6 electoral votes)

    45,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20)

    14,000 votes in Arizona (11)

    12,000 votes in Georgia (16)

    20,000 votes in Wisconsin (10)

    145,000 votes in Michigan (16)

    This election is over, except Trump’s attorneys need to make some more money off of the MAGA crowd. So, please donate to Trump’s Legal Defense Fund.

    And everyone said that Trump wasn’t wiretapped. Remember way back then? It turns out that everyone who said he wasn’t wiretapped was either lying or stupid.

    Which were you?

    In fairness I think there’s a third option: negligently uncurious. It’s a little from both columns yet not quite all one or the other.

    I missed one. It is possible, though most of the decriers of Trump had no problem at the time sharing their views that he wasn’t spied on. I myself have to confess to some minor brain trauma when I watched James Clapper go on TV to differentiate between “spying” and “surreptitious surveillance.” 

    • #115
    • November 10, 2020, at 11:02 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  26. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    MWD B612 &quot;Dawg&quot; (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    In Pennsylvania, 638,000 ballots were counted outside of GOP observer review. So, I don’t think you can claim with a high degree of confidence that ballots were properly segregated from the vote count following Alito’s order. Of course, if you were physically present when these 638,000 ballots were logged in and counted and can verify that the dates on ballot envelopes were recorded before being handled and have any video evidence to support that, then I suppose all concerns can be dismissed.

    Brian,

    This is an invalid process period. No result whatsoever can be derived from this corrupted process. The election can’t be adjudicated. The election must be declared null & void. Then the court can next rule a remedy new election but this one is void.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim,

    Are you sure a court could order a new election? AFAIK, only Congress has the power to set a presidential election.

    ETA: And I believe that date has to be uniform throughout the Union.

    MWD,

    Yes, the date would have to be uniform. The Court could definitely clear the way for Congress to do so. At this point, the remedy is secondary to the basic ruling that invalidates what took place. It must be crystal clear why this election could not be used and that this should never happen again. We can move forward only with a clear ruling, otherwise, democracy itself is in jeopardy. 

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #116
    • November 10, 2020, at 11:08 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  27. HeavyWater Coolidge

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    HW and Valiuth:

    I don’t think that you provided a link indicating what was going on in Pennsylvania in answer to my question, but Valiuth did post this:

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    MWD B612 &quot;Dawg&quot; (View Comment):

    . . .

    @valiuth, if you have a link to an update I’d appreciate it.

    And on Saturday they did confirm that the segregation of ballots was occurring, Incidentally the order to segregate the ballots was given even before Alito gave his order by state election officials. Guess you weren’t interested enough to keep up with the news. Its okay it took me a whole 2 minutes to look this up on Google. But then again can you trust USA today or the various county officials giving this confirmation? Can any conspiracy theory be disproven to an adherent? I won’t hold my breath.

    The link is to a USA Today article. The article says, in pertinent part:

    Pennsylvania officials said in a memo Saturday that ballots received after Election Day were being segregated and tallied separately, in response to a Republican injunction filed this week that alleged the ballots were not being segregated in all counties.

    The Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General, on behalf of Democratic Secretary of the Commonwealth Kathy Boockvar, said in the memo that the secretary’s guidance to counties to segregate ballots was “unambiguous.”

    “There is no evidence that any county is disobeying that clear guidance to segregate these votes, and the Republican Party offers only speculation that certain unidentified counties may ignore that repeated guidance or that the Secretary will inconsistently change course,” the memo said.

    I have two comments about this.

    First, the claim of the Pennsylvania AG that there is a lack of evidence of a county disobeying guidance to segregate the late-arrived votes is not the same thing as a denial of wrongdoing. I do not conclude that wrongdoing has occurred. But this is a sort of non-denial denial. At the moment, I hope that the late-arriving votes have been properly segregated.

    Second, this story indicates that the late-arrived votes “were being segregated and tallied separately,” which suggests that they have been included in the reported Pennsylvania vote counts, but is not conclusive on this point.

    Accordingly, I conclude that we don’t yet know whether the late-arrived votes are included in the Pennsylvania reported count. If they are, those votes may be invalidated by SCOTUS, and this might change the result in Pennsylvania.

    I have read that the vote totals showing Biden ahead of Trump by about 45,000 votes and about 0.6 percent of the total vote do not include any late arrival ballots. Now, what I read could be correct or it could be incorrect. In any case, I think by January 21, 2021 we will all see that Trump’s attorneys got paid but did not prevent Biden from obtaining the White House.

    • #117
    • November 10, 2020, at 11:46 AM PST
    • Like
  28. Blue Yeti Admin

    Folks, just a heads up on this thread and several others like it: We have a longstanding and very specific rule against posting conspiracy theories and misinformaton on this site, and some of what is being posted here is just that: unproven, unsubstantiated, and verifiably false rumors being presented as fact.

    Yes, we are aware that some states are still counting votes from election night and that there are recounts and court cases pending. Talk about that all you want. But we will start redacting comments that we believe are presenting false information. 

    • #118
    • November 10, 2020, at 12:01 PM PST
    • 1 like
  29. Brian Watt Member
    Brian WattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Folks, just a heads up on this thread and several others like it: We have a longstanding and very specific rule against posting conspiracy theories and misinformaton on this site, and some of what is being posted here is just that: unproven, unsubstantiated, and verifiably false rumors being presented as fact.

    Yes, we are aware that some states are still counting votes from election night and that there are recounts and court cases pending. Talk about that all you want. But we will start redacting comments that we believe are presenting false information.

    So, for clarification – If we post news stories about the testimony of litigants and witnesses who have signed sworn affidavits in lawsuits filed by the GOP or the Trump legal team, is that considered a conspiracy theory? If we post videos of Rudy Giuliani, Kayley McEnany, or Ronna McDaniel would that be considered advancing conspiracy theories? 

    • #119
    • November 10, 2020, at 12:20 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  30. Blue Yeti Admin

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Folks, just a heads up on this thread and several others like it: We have a longstanding and very specific rule against posting conspiracy theories and misinformaton on this site, and some of what is being posted here is just that: unproven, unsubstantiated, and verifiably false rumors being presented as fact.

    Yes, we are aware that some states are still counting votes from election night and that there are recounts and court cases pending. Talk about that all you want. But we will start redacting comments that we believe are presenting false information.

    So, for clarification – If we post news stories about the testimony of litigants and witnesses who have signed sworn affidavits in lawsuits filed by the GOP or the Trump legal team, is that considered a conspiracy theory? If we post videos of Rudy Giuliani, Kayley McEnany, or Ronna McDaniel would that be considered advancing conspiracy theories?

    We’ll look at each post or comment individually. Depends on the context in which they are posted. 

    • #120
    • November 10, 2020, at 12:25 PM PST
    • Like