Truth and Reconciliation: An Orwellian Strategy

 

When I first heard the proposal of a “truth and reconciliation” process in the United States, I felt my hair stand on end. Robert Reich, formerly of the Clinton Administration, proposed this kind of commission be established, and I knew that he was up to no good. I actually felt outraged when he used the term because I knew that these commissions were established internationally to deal with the outcomes of devastating upheavals in 40 countries. I am very familiar with events in Rwanda:

The Justice and Reconciliation Process in Rwanda— During the 1994 genocide in Rwanda, up to one million people perished and as many as 250,000 women were raped, leaving the country’s population traumatized and its infrastructure decimated. Since then, Rwanda has embarked on an ambitious justice and reconciliation process with the ultimate aim of all Rwandans once again living side by side in peace.

Justice after the genocide—In the years following the genocide, more than 120,000 people were detained and accused of bearing criminal responsibility for their participation in the killings.

Following this kind of horror—one million people killed in one month—Rwanda knew that steps had to be taken in an effort to unify the country.

But Robert Reich’s proposal borders on evil:

‘When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission,’ Reich tweeted. ‘It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.’

Seriously? Does Reich truly believe that a commission of this type will unify the country? Do we need to execute people’s reputations or even lock them up because people’s feelings have been hurt? Not alone in his ruthless commitment to take revenge, he followed Chris Hayes’ recommendation at MSNBC who proposed a similar commission for those who questioned COVID-19 protocols.

It’s clear that Reich and other Trump-haters are determined to punish Trump and anyone associated with Republicans. All the positive outcomes of the Trump administration are irrelevant: improved foreign policy, a thriving economy, reduced regulations, energy independence. None of those achievements matter. The only goal that matters is destroying the political Right and the Republican party.

The columnist at the Chicago Tribune, John Kass, has taken the punishment for his positions as well. Here’s what he said recently about Reich’s proposal:

Among Republicans, the outraged hot take on all of this is to bring up George Orwell’s ‘1984.’

‘It’s Orwellian,”’ they say.

But Orwell’s ‘1984’ was a soulless world ruled by dispassionate intellects. Their terror was numbing and methodical. These Reich/Hayes Truth Commissions are tinged instead with the angry passion of the zealot seeking revenge. It’s rather French. No, not the France of today, but of the French Revolution, of tribunals and trials and the Reign of Terror, the France of the Jacobins.

That prominent Democrats feel free to propose a Truth and Reconciliation Commission is unnerving, even frightening. We must assume that they are deadly serious.

Let’s hope more than ever that November 3 is a Trump victory.

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  1. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters. 

    • #61
  2. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The Economist Magazine has been presenting a running probability of the election. Until a few minutes ago, Trump’s weakest probability was 7%. It just cratered to 5%.

    538 had Hillary (ding dong the witch is dead!) winning at 95% the day the polls opened.

    We know how that turned out.

    No.  538 had Hillary at 71.4% and Trump at 28.6%.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

    Please retract your assertion or show some sort of documentation for it.

    • #62
  3. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    For some odd reason this nonsense from Reich reminds me of a quote from W. H. Auden. The phrase “riot of subjective visions” seems particularly appropriate. 

    Reason will be replaced by Revelation. Instead of Rational Law, objective truths perceptible to any who will undergo the necessary intellectual discipline, Knowledge will degenerate into a riot of subjective visions . . . Whole cosmogonies will be created out of some forgotten personal resentment, complete epics written in private languages, the daubs of schoolchildren ranked above the greatest masterpieces. Idealism will be replaced by Materialism. Life after death will be an eternal dinner party where all the guests are 20 years old . . . Justice will be replaced by Pity as the cardinal human virtue, and all fear of retribution will vanish . . . The New Aristocracy will consist exclusively of hermits, bums and permanent invalids. The Rough Diamond, the Consumptive Whore, the bandit who is good to his mother, the epileptic girl who has a way with animals will be the heroes and heroines of the New Age, when the general, the statesman, and the philosopher have become the butt of every farce and satire.

    • #63
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    • #64
  5. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    And I voted for my first Democrat for President since 1972.

    Really? Wow, gee, nobody here guessed that would happen. Darn. There goes my bet.

    Picked a fine example of the species he did.

    EXC: Hunter Biden ‘Brought Every Single Person To White House, VP’s House’ That Foreign Business Partner Wanted, Received Resort Villa Stays, Artwork In Exchange

    LOL. And not Demented either.

    • #65
  6. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    How can he be held accountable for tax fraud?

    The IRS has had Trumps tax forms for years. If he had committed tax fraud, don’t you think they’d have gone after him long before now?

    Leftists tend to conflate tax avoidance with tax fraud because in their hearts, it all belongs to the state which graciously allows you to “keep” what you earn while it inflates its value away.

    “Tax avoidance” = “Following the tax laws”.

     

    • #66
  7. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Boney Cole (View Comment):
    President Obama instructed James Coney to go after Flynn, using the “right people”. This was directly after Comey had told Obama that Flynn was innocent of any crime. The meeting is documented on the notes of an FBI agent attending the meetings. Subsequently the FBI broke many laws in following Obama’s pointed instruction to get Flynn.
    I don’t think Obama should be prosecuted.

    I do.

    Obama was worse than Nixon when it came to corrupting the powers of the government against his political opponents.

    • #67
  8. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    No.

    First, the phrase “transfer of power” assumes (or demands) an outcome that has not been established. Assumes facts not in evidence. 

    Second, the point of the OP is that prominent Democrats are proposing harsh (and probably violent) actions against those who have the audacity to disagree. I cannot rule out violence against those who propose to use violence against me. And they have promised to use violence regardless of the outcome of the election. 

    • #68
  9. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    If Trump loses, I think the transfer of power should be exactly as peaceable as the transfer from Obama was.

    Hopefully the FBI will be fully engaged.

     

    • #69
  10. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    No.

    First, the phrase “transfer of power” assumes (or demands) an outcome that has not been established. Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Wow.

    Second, the point of the OP is that prominent Democrats are proposing harsh (and probably violent) actions against those who have the audacity to disagree. I cannot rule out violence against those who propose to use violence against me. And they have promised to use violence regardless of the outcome of the election.

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.  

    I worry about the future of our country.

    • #70
  11. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    Sure  thing. it will be 4 more years of Trump.

    • #71
  12. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    Sure thing. it will be 4 more years of Trump.

    And if Trump loses, will you abjure any violence and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    • #72
  13. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

    I worry about the future of our country.

    You are either blind, deaf or stupid. Where have you been for the last year with the Antifa, BLM and Leftists riots all over the country.  There are numerous examples of calls to action by the Left after the election threatening violence.

    • #73
  14. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    No.

    First, the phrase “transfer of power” assumes (or demands) an outcome that has not been established. Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Wow.

    Second, the point of the OP is that prominent Democrats are proposing harsh (and probably violent) actions against those who have the audacity to disagree. I cannot rule out violence against those who propose to use violence against me. And they have promised to use violence regardless of the outcome of the election.

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

    I worry about the future of our country.

    This is an evergreen tweet:

    • #74
  15. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The effects of a Democrat-run “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” will not be limited to Donald Trump individually. Mr. Reich himself proposes extending it to seemingly prominent people who “enabled” the Trump presidency. But we have seen in the last few years how quickly the targets expand to include not just prominent people, but “ordinary” people. Part of the “reconciliation” settlements with the prominent people will include requiring those executives to punish their employees, contractors, and suppliers who donated to or otherwise supported President Trump. The process will encourage and embolden the protestors who are already inclined to commit violence against Trump supporters.

    Can we all agree to abjure any violence, and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    No.

    First, the phrase “transfer of power” assumes (or demands) an outcome that has not been established. Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Wow.

    Second, the point of the OP is that prominent Democrats are proposing harsh (and probably violent) actions against those who have the audacity to disagree. I cannot rule out violence against those who propose to use violence against me. And they have promised to use violence regardless of the outcome of the election.

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

    I worry about the future of our country.

    Then you are truly not paying attention. 

    • #75
  16. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

     

    Not from what I have seen.  Plenty of people on the Left are just itching to go out and smash things if Trump wins, or if it is close, because they have convinced themselves that any Trump victory will necessarily have been a stolen one.  Frankly, some of the militant right is, by the same token, just as eager for that outcome for an excuse to go bash heads in.  In short, plenty of malcontents all around sound like they’re hoping for a close election, because then it will be an excuse to fight.

    I do not hold out high hopes that anything but a decisive win (one well beyond the error bars of accusations of stolen votes) will actually let any steam out of the pressure cooker.

    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    • #76
  17. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Gary Robbins: And if Trump loses, will you abjure any violence and support a peaceable transfer of power?

    I think we should offer the same level of support your Democratic friends offered after November 9, 2016. Deal?

    • #77
  18. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    Here’s hoping . . . 

    • #78
  19. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

     

    Not from what I have seen. Plenty of people on the Left are just itching to go out and smash things if Trump wins, or if it is close, because they have convinced themselves that any Trump victory will necessarily have been a stolen one. Frankly, some of the militant right is, by the same token, just as eager for that outcome for an excuse to go bash heads in. In short, plenty of malcontents all around sound like they’re hoping for a close election, because then it will be an excuse to fight.

    I do not hold out high hopes that anything but a decisive win (one well beyond the error bars of accusations of stolen votes) will actually let any steam out of the pressure cooker.

    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    I think — hope — “eagerness” overstates the attitude of the right. It’s more a feeling that violence can’t be avoided, that the Antifa-types will initiate it, and that we should be prepared for it. And then deal with it. 

    • #79
  20. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    Here’s hoping . . .

    I’d rather avoid the war in the first place.  People who think that a war “to finally settle things” is somehow necessary, or at least inevitable, are not going to be inclined to pull back.  But they also fail to grasp that such a conflict would actually not be short lived, nor will it settle anything, and will create new issues besides.  We can imagine what Europe might be like today if cooler heads had prevailed in 1914, or the years beforehand.  We should pray cooler heads prevail this time too.

    • #80
  21. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Django (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

     

    Not from what I have seen. Plenty of people on the Left are just itching to go out and smash things if Trump wins, or if it is close, because they have convinced themselves that any Trump victory will necessarily have been a stolen one. Frankly, some of the militant right is, by the same token, just as eager for that outcome for an excuse to go bash heads in. In short, plenty of malcontents all around sound like they’re hoping for a close election, because then it will be an excuse to fight.

    I do not hold out high hopes that anything but a decisive win (one well beyond the error bars of accusations of stolen votes) will actually let any steam out of the pressure cooker.

    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    I think — hope — “eagerness” overstates the attitude of the right. It’s more a feeling that violence can’t be avoided, that the Antifa-types will initiate it, and that we should be prepared for it. And then deal with it.

    Well I should note that while the Right in general is not eager, and neither is the Left in general.  But we should not discount the factions at both ends that are eager to fight anyway, nor should we discount an attitude one hears in the rhetoric even away from the fringes “I can’t wait until the libtards try to come take my guns,” or “when these rednecks try to march through downtown we’d better be ready…”  It may be mere bravado, but it is a bravado that can be used to shame into action.

    • #81
  22. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    I’d rather avoid the war in the first place. People who think that a war “to finally settle things” is somehow necessary, or at least inevitable, are not going to be inclined to pull back. But they also fail to grasp that such a conflict would actually not be short lived, nor will it settle anything, and will create new issues besides. We can imagine what Europe might be like today if cooler heads had prevailed in 1914, or the years beforehand. We should pray cooler heads prevail this time too.

    I’m not optimistic about a short duration. Too many people have been waiting for this moment and if and when they gain momentum, they will be very hard to stop. I look around and wonder, who might those cooler heads be?

    • #82
  23. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    We may be facing a binary choice. Would you prefer that Trump be prosecuted for (a) tax fraud, (b) wire/mail/bank fraud and (c) obstruction of justice, or that he face a Truth and Reconciliation Process?

    We have never had a former President be prosecuted. But we have never had a former President present such a list of offenses that a prosecutor would proceed on if the former President were any other person.

    We have never had any President lead crowds in chants of “Lock Him Up” or “Lock Her Up.”

    We are facing one heck of a quandary. Trump must be held accountable, but we are not a Banana Republic.

    No we will not be facing a binary choice, Gary. If those were crimes he committed (and they aren’t), they could not be addressed through this process. You are missing the whole point: the Left is trying to frighten us if we support Trump, period. Clearly you have nothing to worry about.

    Upon reflection, I think that I didn’t address your point. I agree that there should not be a “Truth and Reconciliation” process for anyone other than Trump.

    Elected Republicans will face the voters. Former employees will find it hard to get a job with their time in the Trump Administration on their resume.

    The question remains of what to do with Trump. As a lawyer it is my professional opinion that it is more likely than not that he could be indicted and prosecuted. But should he?

    How can he be held accountable for Obstruction of Justice?

    How can he be held accountable for wire/mail/bank fraud. (In Arizona, former Republican Governor Fife Symington was convicted of those crimes due to his lying on loan applications while he was a developer.)

    How can he be held accountable for tax fraud?

    My policy with you, Gary, is to not respond to your comments. I think your motives are suspect and I don’t care to engage. I would like to point out to others that, although I can’t ban you from my OP, others can also choose not to respond to you.

    Better yet, don’t even read his comments.

    • #83
  24. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    cdor (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    We may be facing a binary choice. Would you prefer that Trump be prosecuted for (a) tax fraud, (b) wire/mail/bank fraud and (c) obstruction of justice, or that he face a Truth and Reconciliation Process?

    We have never had a former President be prosecuted. But we have never had a former President present such a list of offenses that a prosecutor would proceed on if the former President were any other person.

    We have never had any President lead crowds in chants of “Lock Him Up” or “Lock Her Up.”

    We are facing one heck of a quandary. Trump must be held accountable, but we are not a Banana Republic.

    No we will not be facing a binary choice, Gary. If those were crimes he committed (and they aren’t), they could not be addressed through this process. You are missing the whole point: the Left is trying to frighten us if we support Trump, period. Clearly you have nothing to worry about.

    Upon reflection, I think that I didn’t address your point. I agree that there should not be a “Truth and Reconciliation” process for anyone other than Trump.

    Elected Republicans will face the voters. Former employees will find it hard to get a job with their time in the Trump Administration on their resume.

    The question remains of what to do with Trump. As a lawyer it is my professional opinion that it is more likely than not that he could be indicted and prosecuted. But should he?

    How can he be held accountable for Obstruction of Justice?

    How can he be held accountable for wire/mail/bank fraud. (In Arizona, former Republican Governor Fife Symington was convicted of those crimes due to his lying on loan applications while he was a developer.)

    How can he be held accountable for tax fraud?

    My policy with you, Gary, is to not respond to your comments. I think your motives are suspect and I don’t care to engage. I would like to point out to others that, although I can’t ban you from my OP, others can also choose not to respond to you.

    Better yet, don’t even read his comments.

    I think they are good comic relief. They are good parodies of the delusional libs who read the NYTimes and listen to NPR exclusively and think they are well-informed. 

    • #84
  25. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Please retract your assertion or show some sort of documentation for it.

    I am not your research assistant, however you are correct regarding 538. Here are the 95% or better stories.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sam-wang-princeton-election-consortium-poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-victory-a7399671.html

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/06/matthew_dowd_clinton_has_95_chance_will_get_higher_margin_than_obama.html

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/polls-hillary-clinton-win_n_5821074ce4b0e80b02cc2a94?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHFwXDs1U9-BfAkjys5BNBUQ0XZzlHOyA8GEP8BtkLnPT9dV35btrmKOO2JZGlz13l8CrdSRfeiVN7CZbU90yTvPw9DrWfTbK__GosOxYyQzH-9WqyCHCuTiqX0MarAnG14mveBOQq9wH8B20j1D97tnV5abbFE_8_MSdyfIHRd-

    The rest are somewhere in here.

    https://www.thewrap.com/every-poll-that-got-election-wrong-donald-trump/

    • #85
  26. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

     

    Not from what I have seen. Plenty of people on the Left are just itching to go out and smash things if Trump wins, or if it is close, because they have convinced themselves that any Trump victory will necessarily have been a stolen one. Frankly, some of the militant right is, by the same token, just as eager for that outcome for an excuse to go bash heads in. In short, plenty of malcontents all around sound like they’re hoping for a close election, because then it will be an excuse to fight.

    I do not hold out high hopes that anything but a decisive win (one well beyond the error bars of accusations of stolen votes) will actually let any steam out of the pressure cooker.

    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    I think — hope — “eagerness” overstates the attitude of the right. It’s more a feeling that violence can’t be avoided, that the Antifa-types will initiate it, and that we should be prepared for it. And then deal with it.

    Well I should note that while the Right in general is not eager, and neither is the Left in general. But we should not discount the factions at both ends that are eager to fight anyway, nor should we discount an attitude one hears in the rhetoric even away from the fringes “I can’t wait until the libtards try to come take my guns,” or “when these rednecks try to march through downtown we’d better be ready…” It may be mere bravado, but it is a bravado that can be used to shame into action.

    There are a few I worry about. I saw a short video of the riots and confrontations where one guy, in a very calm, cold voice, told a masked antifa guy, “When the police are gone, you’ll have to deal with us.” I don’t think that one was bluffing. 

    • #86
  27. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Django (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The only people threatening violence that I have seen are Trumpists.

     

    Not from what I have seen. Plenty of people on the Left are just itching to go out and smash things if Trump wins, or if it is close, because they have convinced themselves that any Trump victory will necessarily have been a stolen one. Frankly, some of the militant right is, by the same token, just as eager for that outcome for an excuse to go bash heads in. In short, plenty of malcontents all around sound like they’re hoping for a close election, because then it will be an excuse to fight.

    I do not hold out high hopes that anything but a decisive win (one well beyond the error bars of accusations of stolen votes) will actually let any steam out of the pressure cooker.

    I would say that the mood of the country right now rather reminds me of the mood of Europe in June of 1914 – a certain ready eagerness for a war to finally settle things and defuse tensions, and the heady belief that such a war will be short, sharp, and decisive.

    I think — hope — “eagerness” overstates the attitude of the right. It’s more a feeling that violence can’t be avoided, that the Antifa-types will initiate it, and that we should be prepared for it. And then deal with it.

    Well I should note that while the Right in general is not eager, and neither is the Left in general. But we should not discount the factions at both ends that are eager to fight anyway, nor should we discount an attitude one hears in the rhetoric even away from the fringes “I can’t wait until the libtards try to come take my guns,” or “when these rednecks try to march through downtown we’d better be ready…” It may be mere bravado, but it is a bravado that can be used to shame into action.

    There are a few I worry about. I saw a short video of the riots and confrontations where one guy, in a very calm, cold voice, told a masked antifa guy, “When the police are gone, you’ll have to deal with us.” I don’t think that one was bluffing.

    And that’s what worries me.

    • #87
  28. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The Economist Magazine has been presenting a running probability of the election. Until a few minutes ago, Trump’s weakest probability was 7%. It just cratered to 5%.

    538 had Hillary (ding dong the witch is dead!) winning at 95% the day the polls opened.

    We know how that turned out.

    The Economist. Would that be this Economist?

    The Economist provided sympathetic coverage of a Chinese tech giant widely considered a national security risk without disclosing the publication’s lucrative business relationship with the firm that spanned nearly a decade.

    Huawei Technologies commissioned the Economist‘s business consulting division to advance its policy agendas and deflect cybersecurity concerns raised by Western governments. The influential British magazine produced reports on a wide range of subjects—including a report on broadband access in the United Kingdom that Huawei credits to have influenced British policy. The publication has also run numerous Huawei advertisements, and its editors have cohosted several global forums with the company, helping the tech firm boost its public image as it faced growing scrutiny from the developed world for its close ties with the Chinese government.

    Why, yes, it would.

    • #88
  29. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    I would like to go to Washington DC on election night, and be accompanied by 100,000 individuals committed to a peaceful transition.  
    I anticipate that Antifa will be there to riot.  They rioted at Trump’s inauguration.  I would like enough people to be there to physically displace them. I am now in a position to to that.  I will be within two hours of DC.  I plan to be at the Lincoln monument by 7:00 p.m.  At the minimum I will take videos of rioting Antifa forces.  I probably will be taking videos of people taking videos of Antifa rioters.  All their riots are pretty well documented. The inauguration riots were very well documented.  Please join me and round up another 99,000 people. 

    • #89
  30. Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw Member
    Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw
    @MattBalzer

    Django (View Comment):
    There are a few I worry about. I saw a short video of the riots and confrontations where one guy, in a very calm, cold voice, told a masked antifa guy, “When the police are gone, you’ll have to deal with us.” I don’t think that one was bluffing. 

    Maybe so, but I can see where he’s coming from. 

    In a world where rule of law applies, I can maybe afford to wait for the cops, and they’ll probably try to end a situation without violence. 

    When it’s just me between my family and antifa, I’m not going to be messing around with nonlethal force.

     

    • #90
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