Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. A Lose-Lose Election for Americans

 

Trigger Warning: Deep depression may ensue after reading this post.

Tonight I realized that in many respects, everyone is going to lose, no matter what the election results are. In particular, relationships with friends, family, and co-workers that are polarized will become even further antagonistic. Civil disruption will grow. It’s a pretty ugly picture.

If Joe Biden wins the election, the very future of our democracy will be at risk. Democrats will begin to shift governance to a socialist structure. Laws will be passed that will challenge the relevance of the Constitution. Those of us on the other side will begin to realize, if we haven’t already, that our way of life will be at risk. The Bill of Rights will be bypassed in numerous ways. Censorship will be common; gun bans will be initiated and religions will be further censured. We, on the Right, will finally be so angry and frustrated that we will feel compelled to take action; how that action will manifest is a serious concern. Political discussions that may have been avoided between people with adversarial views will now be out in the open. Polarization will intensify and relationships will be further degraded. The Right will feel that by electing Joe Biden (and by default, Kamala Harris), the Left has betrayed the country. And they will want to find a way to take our country back.

What happens if President Trump wins a second term? If you think the Left felt robbed by the President’s first election, you haven’t seen anything yet. Hysteria will reign. They will demand recounts all over the country. Missed ballots by the thousands will surface. Ballots from precincts will disappear. The Left will ultimately not win, but they also will want revenge. And as in the results of the other side, the Left will sever relationships with people they know, intensifying their vitriol and hatred. Riots, destruction of property, and murders will increase.

Chaos will reign.

* * * * *

I’m doing my best to imagine a productive and peaceful outcome to the election, but for once, optimism fails me. I would welcome anyone who can contradict this picture and offer hope.

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  1. David Carroll Thatcher
    David CarrollJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Buy ammunition now.

    • #1
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:35 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    David Carroll (View Comment):

    Buy ammunition now.

    I agree, @davidcarroll. If you can find it.

    • #2
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:39 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  3. Rodin Member

    Yes. Did we think there was no price to pay for letting progressives take over so much of our culture? We were too complacent about it, satisfied that logic would somehow restrain them. History told us better, but our embrace of freedom made it difficult (impossible) to do the things that would have prevented this heretofore. 

    In the past, the productive could “go Galt” to the refuge of Rand’s fictional Colorado. Our ancestors did precisely that by coming to America. But our present interconnectedness makes that impossible, so we must turn and fight. There will be carnage. We must accept that reality and not be discouraged. And things will be imperfect for some time even if the eventual goal is achieved. 

    The greatest tragedy, individually, will be those that are referenced in the OP — the impact on family and friend relationships. 

    • #3
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:40 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  4. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Take heart, Susan. This country has seen bad times before. We will come out of this.

    • #4
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:43 AM PDT
    • 19 likes
  5. Bob Thompson Member

    President Trump has revealed where we really are and enables us to understand our state of captivity.

    I remember The Prisoner with Patrick McGoohan. I thought it one of the best dramas ever presented on TV.

    The 2020 Election Bamboozle: We Are All Victims Of The Deep State’s Con Game

    • #5
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:44 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  6. Nohaaj Coolidge

    I don’t like anything in this post, and I fear it might all be accurate. 

    • #6
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:45 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  7. Nohaaj Coolidge

    But I would still much prefer a Trump win outcome, and feel it would be infinitely better than the steep decline into progressive, socialist rule which is the alternative. 

    • #7
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:46 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  8. philo Member

    You optimist.

    • #8
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:46 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Yes. Did we think there was no price to pay for letting progressives take over so much of our culture? We were too complacent about it, satisfied that logic would somehow restrain them. History told us better, but our embrace of freedom made it difficult (impossible) to do the things that would have prevented this heretofore.

    In the past, the productive could “go Galt” to the refuge of Rand’s fictional Colorado. Our ancestors did precisely that by coming to America. But our present interconnectedness makes that impossible, so we must turn and fight. There will be carnage. We must accept that reality and not be discouraged. And things will be imperfect for some time even if the eventual goal is achieved.

    The greatest tragedy, individually, will be those that are referenced in the OP — the impact on family and friend relationships.

    Eloquent as always, @rodin. I’m in the process of reading Michael Anton’s book The Stakes, and I’m at the part where he asks if the Republican party is up to the task, or if we need to establish a new party. I suspect they are too corrupted overall to do the hard work that will be required. They are part of the elite.

    • #9
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:50 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Percival (View Comment):

    Take heart, Susan. This country has seen bad times before. We will come out of this.

    We will. But at great cost.

    • #10
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:51 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    I don’t like anything in this post, and I fear it might all be accurate.

    I guess I should say, thanks? I do know what you mean, @nohaaj.

    • #11
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:52 AM PDT
    • Like
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    But I would still much prefer a Trump win outcome, and feel it would be infinitely better than the steep decline into progressive, socialist rule which is the alternative.

    I agree. It will be a much better place to begin our recovery with Trump in charge.

    • #12
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:53 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  13. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    philo (View Comment):

    You optimist.

    @philo–are you teasing nohaaj or me?

    • #13
    • October 16, 2020, at 7:53 AM PDT
    • Like
  14. Henry Racette Contributor

    Susan,

    I don’t think America loses if President Trump wins re-election.

    We’ve been sliding for quite a long time, gradually (and occasionally abruptly) shedding our traditions and norms in favor of whatever the avant-garde left embraces as the imperative de jure. Though we are, I believe, a fundamentally conservative people, the left dominates enough institutions to allow it to exert a relentless, steady force; America gradually yields.

    It’s good for us to see the naked left, the disrespect and chaos and intolerance and violence that is the inevitable end-point of the left’s fractious and reckless agenda. We can respond to that, and I think we will: we will recoil, dig in our heels, and push back against it.

    Let’s do this.

    Hank

    • #14
    • October 16, 2020, at 8:04 AM PDT
    • 19 likes
  15. philo Member

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    You optimist.

    @philo–are you teasing nohaaj or me?

    Sorry, that was my impulsive response as soon as I got to “Chaos will reign” in your post. But I think you are both still viewing the coming abyss through rose colored glasses. No matter who wins, I suspect we are in for a level of violent and bloody chaos – “Riots, destruction of property and murders will increase”, notwithstanding – that I don’t detect either one of you projecting here. 

    2020 has just been the warm up for 2021.

    • #15
    • October 16, 2020, at 8:05 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  16. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It’s good for us to see the naked left, the disrespect and chaos and intolerance and violence that is the inevitable end-point of the left’s fractious and reckless agenda. We can respond to that, and I think we will: we will recoil, dig in our heels, and push back against it.

    Let’s do this.

    I love this, Hank. If anyone can see all this in a positive light, it’s you (and I mean that in the most grateful way). Maybe their response to a Trump victory is just what we need to see and respond to. When I watch the huge pushback to Twitter’s recent censorship, I am inspired by those who responded in that way. Even though it could get ugly after a Trump election, it might be the darkness before the light. Thanks!

    • #16
    • October 16, 2020, at 8:20 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    philo (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    You optimist.

    @philo–are you teasing nohaaj or me?

    Sorry, that was my impulsive response as soon as I got to “Chaos will reign” in your post. But I think you are both still viewing the coming abyss through rose colored glasses. No matter who wins, I suspect we are in for a level of violent and bloody chaos – “Riots, destruction of property and murders will increase”, notwithstanding – that I don’t detect either one of you projecting here.

    2020 has just been the warm up for 2021.

    Are you suggesting there will be a full-out civil war?

    • #17
    • October 16, 2020, at 8:22 AM PDT
    • Like
  18. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    • #18
    • October 16, 2020, at 8:57 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  19. Stad Thatcher

    Susan Quinn: Laws will be passed that will challenge the relevance of the Constitution.

    This is why getting Slay-me Coney Barrett (Klavan’s name for her) on the Supreme Court is vital. Roberts has positioned himself as the new swing vote, so we’ll still get a bunch of 5-4 rulings that will mostly go our way (which is the Constitutional way). Sure, we may get what is perceived as a defection now and then, but it’s much better than having Justice Stacey Abrams being appointed by Biden to fill the next empty seat . . .

    • #19
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:19 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  20. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Suzy,

    I know just the thing for your present state of mind. A few quotes from Uncle Billy and you’ll feel right as rain.

    War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

    If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast.

    If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.

    There now, wasn’t that refreshing. Always lifts my spirits.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #20
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:29 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  21. MarciN Member

    Yesterday, I would have shared these worries. But this morning I caught President Trump’s campaign speech from yesterday in North Carolina, and he was amazing, and he has a positive vision for getting us out of this and going forward. My favorite part of his speech was his aside on the recent New York Times admission that his administration and Operation Warp Speed had done a good job managing the virus: 

    Sometime in the next three months, health experts say, the F.D.A. is likely to begin granting approval to vaccines now in the works.

    Despite the chaos in day-to-day politics and the fighting over issues like masks and lockdowns, Operation Warp Speed — the government’s agreement to subsidize vaccine companies’ clinical trials and manufacturing costs — appears to have been working with remarkable efficiency. It has put more than $11 billion into seven vaccine candidates, and the F.D.A. has said it will approve any one that is at least 50 percent effective at preventing infection or reducing its severity.

    Moncef Slaoui, Operation Warp Speed’s chief scientific adviser and a former pharmaceutical executive who has overseen the development of 14 vaccines, has said repeatedly that he expects some of the candidates that he picked to have 75 to 90 percent efficacy and at least two to win approval by early January.

    By then, Dr. Slaoui has estimated, the factories under contract will have produced enough vaccine for 30 to 40 million people, and then another 80 to 90 million people every month after that. Assuming nothing goes wrong, he said, there will be enough doses for all 330 million Americans to be vaccinated by next June. Bill Gates, who is not part of Operation Warp Speed but works with it to develop vaccines for the world’s poor, has agreed with that timetable.

    There will inevitably be distribution problems, but the military is standing by to help. The chief operating officer of Operation Warp Speed is General Gustave F. Perna, a logistics specialist.

    And this from the NYT (via the Daily Wire) on October 13:

    A new report from The New York Times indicates that experts have “genuine confidence” that the coronavirus pandemic will end “far sooner” than originally expected and that President Donald Trump’s Operation Warp Speed — the administration’s efforts to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics — has been “working with remarkable efficiency.”

    The report, published on Monday, comes with just over three weeks left in the presidential race between Trump and Democrat presidential nominee Joe Biden.

    “Events have moved faster than I thought possible. I have become cautiously optimistic,” New York Times science reporter Donald McNeil Jr. wrote. “Experts are saying, with genuine confidence, that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected, possibly by the middle of next year.”

     

    President Trump is a powerful leader. We are very blessed to have him. The future looks good. 

     

    • #21
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:32 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  22. MarciN Member

    Postscript to my comment 18:

    Operation Warp Speed and its emphasis on vaccines, treatments, and learning about how viruses actually spread in communities so this won’t happen again when international travel resumes is the only answer at this point simply because the public has been deeply traumatized. Trump is right to be aggressive in pursuing this three-pronged strategy. He is addressing consumer confidence, and that’s what’s needed most. He is not saying that the lives of older people don’t matter. The world does not want to hear that. He has been wise to avoid saying it.

    As I said, he is a smart and powerful leader. I think he has done a brilliant job handling this crisis.

    • #22
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:34 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  23. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas PrattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Susan, it is possible to agree with you and still be positive. We will get through this.

    I think Trump has been restrained in his response to violent protests, for several reasons. First, he has to be asked to intervene, and he wants to abide by the law. Second, the violence is overwhelmingly in Democrat-run cities and states. I’m not saying that Trump is happy about that; I don’t believe he is happy about any of it. But it does mean that the chaos will highlight the colossal incompetence of the Democrats who run those cities and states.

    Last and most important, once he has decisively won the election (God willing), he will have a lot less to lose by acting swiftly and decisively. He could pull an Eisenhower and send in the National Guard to quell riots.

    I believe that the DOJ has been building up the intelligence they need to take down the networks that are systematically causing riots, and after the election they will be given the green light. Nobody better than Bill Barr for that job.

    Ironic that Obama’s hot-mike comment to tell Putin that he will have more flexibility after the election now applies to Trump.

    • #23
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:45 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  24. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Suzy,

    I know just the thing for your present state of mind. A few quotes from Uncle Billy and you’ll feel right as rain.

    War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

    If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast.

    If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.

    There now, wasn’t that refreshing. Always lifts my spirits.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Gee, thanks, Jim. I feel much better . . . 

    • #24
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:52 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  25. JustmeinAZ Member

    Already deeply depressed. And I have always been a happy, optimistic person. Just the fact that anyone would vote for Biden depresses me. For me Trump’s re-election would be worth any relationships I might lose.

    • #25
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:54 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Susan, it is possible to agree with you and still be positive. We will get through this.

    I think Trump has been restrained in his response to violent protests, for several reasons. First, he has to be asked to intervene, and he wants to abide by the law. Second, the violence is overwhelmingly in Democrat-run cities and states. I’m not saying that Trump is happy about that; I don’t believe he is happy about any of it. But it does mean that the chaos will highlight the colossal incompetence of the Democrats who run those cities and states.

    Last and most important, once he has decisively won the election (God willing), he will have a lot less to lose by acting swiftly and decisively. He could pull an Eisenhower and send in the National Guard to quell riots.

    I believe that the DOJ has been building up the intelligence they need to take down the networks that are systematically causing riots, and after the election they will be given the green light. Nobody better than Bill Barr for that job.

    Ironic that Obama’s hot-mike comment to tell Putin that he will have more flexibility after the election now applies to Trump.

    These are very fine points, @douglaspratt. I may have to resign myself to the fact that there will still be chaos and destruction. But if Trump is elected, he will act aggressively to bring law and order. I think a victory for him will be a mandate to act quickly and firmly. I also would love to think the networks running the riots will come down or at least be crippled in the process. Thanks for your optimistic view, Douglas. I’m feeling better.

    • #26
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:56 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  27. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    Already deeply depressed. And I have always been a happy, optimistic person. Just the fact that anyone would vote for Biden depresses me. For me Trump’s re-election would be worth any relationships I might lose.

    Good point, @justmeinaz. He needs to win, and any losses otherwise may be necessary.

    • #27
    • October 16, 2020, at 9:58 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  28. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Suzy,

    I know just the thing for your present state of mind. A few quotes from Uncle Billy and you’ll feel right as rain.

    War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

    If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast.

    If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.

    There now, wasn’t that refreshing. Always lifts my spirits.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Sherman (after the disastrous first day of Shiloh): Well, Grant, we’ve had the devil’s own day, haven’t we?

    Grant: Yes … lick ’em tomorrow, though.

    • #28
    • October 16, 2020, at 10:02 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  29. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    Good point, @justmeinaz. He needs to win, and any losses otherwise may be necessary.

    Suzy,

    Atta girl, now you’re coming out of it. We need a “Goddess of Victory” not a Cassandra.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #29
    • October 16, 2020, at 10:09 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  30. Bob Thompson Member

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Suzy,

    I know just the thing for your present state of mind. A few quotes from Uncle Billy and you’ll feel right as rain.

    War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

    If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast.

    If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.

    There now, wasn’t that refreshing. Always lifts my spirits.

    Regards,

    Jim

    I liked it and I’m from Georgia.

    • #30
    • October 16, 2020, at 10:41 AM PDT
    • 8 likes