Trapped in Fear

 

As I write this essay, I don’t even know if I’m going to post it. I only know my heart is aching and I can’t make the pain go away. It’s one thing to know that Americans are suffering due to their fear of Covid-19 and the propaganda that has been promoted throughout this country; it’s another to see a friend suffering from a fear that she is unwilling or unable to overcome.

I have known this woman for more than ten years. She is a Leftie. We learned a long time ago that there is no point in discussing politics. She is smart and sweet and is a down-to-earth person in so many ways. She developed a wonderful program to help children learn to read by bringing dogs into the learning process. And she’s been a good friend.

Since she’s a snowbird and currently living in Chicago, we’ve been practicing a physical movement series together through What’s App. Abiding by our original understanding, we haven’t discussed politics or Covid-19. But today, for me, something cracked open.

She is returning to Florida in a couple of weeks and asked me an odd question: was there a way to check on the internet at any given time whether emergency rooms and/or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and then her query became clearer: if she had to be hospitalized with Covid-19, could she check which hospitals had space?

My brain felt as if it had been flooded by a dense fog. I then dipped into dangerous territory and asked her if she was getting news on the virus from any place other than MSNBC or CNN. She didn’t answer. I told her that nationally, the percentage of deaths was going down. She responded that wasn’t true. (I suspect she was thinking of the number of cases.) Then she said that North Dakota and Wisconsin, where she has family, were in bad shape, and I asked her what she meant. She said that five students had caught the virus and they were shutting down the school. I then buried myself when I asked if anyone had died. She flippantly answered that she didn’t think so. At that moment, I knew I had misstepped.

I quickly suggested that we not go there in the conversation. She agreed and we moved on to our practice. I had a difficult time concentrating, and although we were cordial when we finished, I felt the small crack that had emerged between us.

So, I’m stumbling under a swirl of emotions: disbelief, anger, sorrow. I know that part of my resistance to her state is my own frustration with dealing with the victimization of others. How can a person choose to be a victim? How can a person who is technologically adept not use her skills to get to the truth? How can a person who is naturally curious insist on wearing dark glasses rather than walking into the light?

I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

And there is nothing I can do to help—help her or anyone else.

Published in Healthcare
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 123 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    Susan Quinn:

    I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

    And there is nothing I can do to help—help her or anyone else.

    I started a few weeks ago easing into this conversation by asking whether they thought the death rate was 30 or 40 percent. I can tell by the blank looks they have no idea but think either one is plausible. Then I can go into the actual death rate in the US which I have to get for myself by doing very little math and how the media and politicians don’t want us to know this so it isn’t reported. I don’t usually go further with this but I think it causes some of them to begin to think about it. If questions come later I stand ready to discuss things as always. 
    Very few people are either trained or inclined to think for themselves and that’s what makes them vulnerable to such manipulation. 
    I sympathize with your situation, it’s hard to see a good friend succomb to fear, especially irrational fear.  And the fact that this fear is being fed for political and ‘botttom line’ reasons by the media, the ententy that is supposed to inform us, makes it much worse.
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    • #61
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn:

    I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

    And there is nothing I can do to help—help her or anyone else.

    I started a few weeks ago easing into this conversation by asking whether they thought the death rate was 30 or 40 percent. I can tell by the blank looks they have no idea but think either one is plausible. Then I can go into the actual death rate in the US which I have to get for myself by doing very little math and how the media and politicians don’t want us to know this so it isn’t reported. I don’t usually go further with this but I think it causes some of them to begin to think about it. If questions come later I stand ready to discuss things as always.
    Very few people are either trained or inclined to think for themselves and that’s what makes them vulnerable to such manipulation.
    I sympathize with your situation, it’s hard to see a good friend succomb to fear, especially irrational fear. And the fact that this fear is being fed for political and ‘botttom line’ reasons by the media, the ententy that is supposed to inform us, makes it much worse.
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    The latest incarnation of teaching math only teaches the students that math is confusing and is not worth doing.

    • #62
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    OkieSailor (View Comment):
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    Great suggestions, @okiesailor. Thank you.

    • #63
  4. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    We had no idea how many people existed in the intersection of victimhood, paranoia, bossiness, information control, and the preference for working at home in sweatpants.

    That’s kinda strange, though. Just for one, how can they be bossy if they’re not around other people?

    Two words: Facebook, Twitter.

    • #64
  5. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Annefy (View Comment):
    It has been helpful to identify the tyrants among us; I spent a rare day inside a few stores today (killing time while a car was being worked on) There were three security guards just inside the door at Marshalls on mask duty. I was putting mine on as I entered; two had already begun to approach me. 

    Actual security guards – like, uniformed security guards?

    • #65
  6. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Way back in March I had some sympathy for the people who were frozen in terror. Now I have nothing but impatience and disdain. They happily hide at home in their perceived safe environment while truckers and grocery store stockers and restaurant delivery people enter the fray every single day.

    Precisely, @annefy. Too many of these people are taking advantage of their situations, whether they realize it or not. For most of them, I have little patience. For a person who I once thought was reasonable, it’s not been easy.

    I laughed out loud when I read this. My friend could never be described as “reasonable”, but she’s been a good friend in many ways. She’s actually quite famous (literally) for her unreasonableness. For whatever reason, for 20 years I’ve managed to deal with it; the positives more than outweighed the negatives. And, as I’m fond of saying, crazy people can be very entertaining. 

    But 2020 has pushed me over the edge. Whatever bandwidth I was using to deal with her is being used by other applications.

    • #66
  7. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    It has been helpful to identify the tyrants among us; I spent a rare day inside a few stores today (killing time while a car was being worked on) There were three security guards just inside the door at Marshalls on mask duty. I was putting mine on as I entered; two had already begun to approach me.

    Actual security guards – like, uniformed security guards?

    Oh yeah. Uniformed with big “security” signs on their shirts. And radios. I need a mask to cover my eyes and hide the eyerolls.

    • #67
  8. cirby Inactive
    cirby
    @cirby

    OkieSailor (View Comment):
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    From past experience, that’s a terrible plan.

    What really happens is that they remember only one thing: you were wrong, in every respect, and they were right. And the only way they can wrap their tiny little minds around it is to switch the sides of the conversation. So instead of being right about the numbers of people who die from COVID, you were wrong about everything else. So they “remember” that you said nobody was going to die from this at all, and that the Democrats were warning us, incessantly, from early January, that precisely the correct number of people would die unless we did something very specific that they told us to do. Never mind what, it was just, you know, specific.

     

    • #68
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    cirby (View Comment):
    From past experience, that’s a terrible plan.

    @cirby and @okiesailor, I don’t know how much information my friend actually has to start. And she tends not to be adversarial. If anyone runs hot on this topic, it’s me. I think you’ve both suggested very different options for moving forward with her on this topic, and I will weigh them carefully. I have to say quite honestly that I have no clue if and when I will bring it up. But I’m very grateful that you are both looking out for me. Thank you.

    • #69
  10. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    cirby (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    From past experience, that’s a terrible plan.

    What really happens is that they remember only one thing: you were wrong, in every respect, and they were right. And the only way they can wrap their tiny little minds around it is to switch the sides of the conversation. So instead of being right about the numbers of people who die from COVID, you were wrong about everything else. So they “remember” that you said nobody was going to die from this at all, and that the Democrats were warning us, incessantly, from early January, that precisely the correct number of people would die unless we did something very specific that they told us to do. Never mind what, it was just, you know, specific.

     

    Sorry to say, I agree with this. I saw it play out with my own parents for decades. 

    My husband finally convinced me to cut my mom some slack; as he said, if should had to face up to her misconceptions and misplaced priorities it would shock the foundation of her life. And no one is equipped to deal with that in their 70s. (it’s tough at any age)

    The people in my life who were most afraid of COVID in March have all double downed. And I think it’s because they don’t want to face up to the fact that all their sacrifices have (for the most part) mattered naught. 

    • #70
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Annefy (View Comment):
    The people in my life who were most afraid of COVID in March have all double downed. And I think it’s because they don’t want to face up to the fact that all their sacrifices have (for the most part) mattered naught. 

    I’m afraid you’re right, @annefy. In fact, it could threaten their whole Leftist belief system. They simply will not go there.

    • #71
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    cirby (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    From past experience, that’s a terrible plan.

    What really happens is that they remember only one thing: you were wrong, in every respect, and they were right. And the only way they can wrap their tiny little minds around it is to switch the sides of the conversation. So instead of being right about the numbers of people who die from COVID, you were wrong about everything else. So they “remember” that you said nobody was going to die from this at all, and that the Democrats were warning us, incessantly, from early January, that precisely the correct number of people would die unless we did something very specific that they told us to do. Never mind what, it was just, you know, specific.

    And then, show her this:

     

    • #72
  13. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    Susan Quinn: I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

    Susan, like others who have commented, I feel one of the central points in trying to understand many people in this environment of fear today are your words “They choose suffering over information.” We see this all around us and saw it again very recently at a gathering of friends who were bemoaning “the surge” and proclaiming that they would not be going anywhere for some time because they were “just not ready to risk going to a hotel” or some such fear, along with their near-mortification at the fact that some people in our State of Florida are not wearing masks any more. My Lady and I kept uncharacteristically quiet in order to try to avoid open conflicts with friends, but it was all I cold do to note recent articles noting that in this State, not only has there not been a “surge”, but the numbers in almost all categories have been very steady for s few weeks. As you know, the Governor has issued an Executive Order lifting restrictions on Sept. 25, and I have had a continuing “dialogue”, to use a nice euphemism, with the City Council and City Attorney of Pensacola about their decision to keep their mask “mandate” in effect, even after the Governor, which I do believe is a slightly higher authority, lifted the restrictions. I may as well have been trying to reason with my wife’s cat or Maizie Hirono (Moron, Hawaii) for all the good it did. 

    I am sure you have studied The Great Barrington Declaration, and it pains me to see so many people, many of whom I know to be very well read and who keep up with the news (and that is of course a topic for another day– how one choses to keep up with the “news” in this day and time) who are absolutely terrified of everything, including some of the freshest, cleanest air to be found anywhere which we are so blessed to live in here in this area. I see cyclists out in the glorious sunlit day with what look like full size towels wrapped around their head and I want to run out to them and ask them what science they have read about which calls for this kind of overkill. But, choosing not to be looked upon as some kind of “hatemonger”, I do not. 

    So many, as you say, trapped in fear. I’m not at all sure I see an end in sight, regardless of the result on Nov. 3.

    Thank you for your excellent, as usual, post. Jim. 

    • #73
  14. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Jim George (View Comment):
    So many, as you say, trapped in fear. I’m not at all sure I see an end in sight, regardless of the result on Nov. 3.

    As a fellow Floridian, we share similar sentiments. It’s mind-boggling to see how many people are frightened. In our own housing development, however, people are mostly taking walks without masks (at least early in the morning) and it’s good to see. At our work-out facility, when I go 9am-10am, about half wear masks. (I wear one because I assume it will reassure some, and those in charge have asked us to wear them in the gym.) In Osceola County, most businesses still require them. 

    The whole thing is tiresome. I’m reaching a point where, if the masks aren’t required, I won’t wear them. At least DeSantis seems to be acting practically. Thanks for sharing.

    • #74
  15. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    It has been helpful to identify the tyrants among us; I spent a rare day inside a few stores today (killing time while a car was being worked on) There were three security guards just inside the door at Marshalls on mask duty. I was putting mine on as I entered; two had already begun to approach me.

    Actual security guards – like, uniformed security guards?

    Oh yeah. Uniformed with big “security” signs on their shirts. And radios. I need a mask to cover my eyes and hide the eyerolls.

    Wow! I suppose enforcing the mask requirement wasn’t their main purpose, but it certainly seems like overkill to have a uniformed security guy approach you as you enter the store simply because you weren’t wearing a mask several paces away from the door.

    • #75
  16. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    It has been helpful to identify the tyrants among us; I spent a rare day inside a few stores today (killing time while a car was being worked on) There were three security guards just inside the door at Marshalls on mask duty. I was putting mine on as I entered; two had already begun to approach me.

    Actual security guards – like, uniformed security guards?

    Oh yeah. Uniformed with big “security” signs on their shirts. And radios. I need a mask to cover my eyes and hide the eyerolls.

    Wow! I suppose enforcing the mask requirement wasn’t their main purpose, but it certainly seems like overkill to have a uniformed security guy approach you as you enter the store simply because you weren’t wearing a mask several paces away from the door.

    And it was an “entrance only”, so I don’t think they were looking for people hiding merchandise under their masks.  I didn’t mention there was a clerk there with a counter. There was a big sign stating that only so many customers were allowed in the store at any time to “facilitate social distancing”. When I left (empty handed, I might add. Can’t try anything on and shopping is a miserable experience in a mask) there was another clerk with a counter, I assume noting that I’d left.

    • #76
  17. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Eustace C. Scrubb (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Eustace C. Scrubb (View Comment):

    I know many people (including family), who continue to be holed up in their homes, not enjoying all the wonders of the world and companionship with other people because the media has them convinced that Covid-19 is the deadliest of killers.

    How do you deal with that, @eustacecscrubb? Do you feel compassion for them? Frustration? How do you work with the alienationSNIP

    Compassion mixed with frustration. I get together with one of my daughters and her husband through texting and Google Hangouts since they’re not comfortable meeting in person. But frankly it is hard to make effort sometimes because of disagreements on Covid and politics (same same these days.) But I keep reminding myself that people are eternal, politics are not.

    I’m getting more than a little annoyed with people like this also. My cousin (62 years old) in Scotland has not seen her two grown daughters or her grandson since March.

    I do a monthly bunco and weekly rosary with groups of friends that overlap somewhat. Bunco has not happened since February and our Wednesday morning rosary is now accomplished via Zoom. A friend and I spoke on the phone and caught up – in this circle (25 people?) there’s been three divorces since March and a few other women who appear to be really struggling mentally.

    My friend decided to throw caution to the wind and had a get together last week. All outside. No hugging required (but there was quite a bit of it). SNIPIn each case they were acquiescing to  demands of their grown children to not join us.

    Any child of mine would be told to pound sand; that said, these particular women have grandchildren that their daughters are using as leverage. (You have to quarantine yourself for two weeks after being in public before you can see the kids)

    My impatience grows.

    Very much find myself  in the same mind frame. On several FB groups, other older people are being told by their 25 to 45 year old children that they are no longer part of the family due to not fully abiding by all the requirements of the COVID crazed Dem bureaucrats. 

    In other situations, I hear of 18 to 30 year olds whose parents are more liberal than the adult kids are, and the parents chide their adult youngsters for not embracing AntiFa and BLM causes.

    Then there’s the funeral scene that Amazing Polly displayed on her video feed on a recent Bitchute titled: “It’s Your Funeral.” In the clip, adult children of a woman whose husband died moved their chairs over to the mom’s as a minister made points about family closeness. But then the funeral home director intervened & forced everyone apart. So everyone who had moved in close to the widow then moved their chairs away. This is so sick! It is the Milgram experiment in real life!

     

    • #77
  18. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker
    @CarolJoy

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn:

    I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

    And there is nothing I can do to help—help her or anyone else.

    I started a few weeks ago easing into this conversation by asking whether they thought the death rate was 30 or 40 percent. I can tell by the blank looks they have no idea but think either one is plausible. Then I can go into the actual death rate in the US which I have to get for myself by doing very little math and how the media and politicians don’t want us to know this so it isn’t reported. I don’t usually go further with this but I think it causes some of them to begin to think about it. If questions come later I stand ready to discuss things as always.
    Very few people are either trained or inclined to think for themselves and that’s what makes them vulnerable to such manipulation.
    I sympathize with your situation, it’s hard to see a good friend succomb to fear, especially irrational fear. And the fact that this fear is being fed for political and ‘botttom line’ reasons by the media, the ententy that is supposed to inform us, makes it much worse.
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    Okie Sailor, I admire people who are optimistic, but do you not feel that if this was going to end eventually it would have ended by now? I mean, the main man, Bill Gates and his various entities who have brought this into our lives stated for everyone to hear throughout all his major interviews from February to early May that the “new normal” was going to be part of our society for years.  He was so  confident about the public accepting this he laid out that there would most likely be no herd immunity acquired the natural way, and only by having continual vaccination programs would the “real” herd immunity come about.

    An acquaintance here in Lake County Calif was told 2 weeks ago at his job that he can expect to be wearing a mask at work for the next three years. Material leaked from last year’s Event 201 stated the epidemic would be ended in 2025.

     

    • #78
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker (View Comment):
    Material leaked from last year’s Event 201 stated the epidemic would be ended in 2025.

    Right after President Harris begins her second term?  How conveeeeenient!

    • #79
  20. Al Sparks Coolidge
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    Susan Quinn:

    I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

    And there is nothing I can do to help—help her or anyone else.

    I’m ok with her suffering, because she’s inflicted it upon herself, and I can’t do anything about it.

    The problem with people like that, is they want us to suffer along with them, and will do what they can to force us to.

    • #80
  21. Suspira Member
    Suspira
    @Suspira

    kedavis (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    We had no idea how many people existed in the intersection of victimhood, paranoia, bossiness, information control, and the preference for working at home in sweatpants.

    That’s kinda strange, though. Just for one, how can they be bossy if they’re not around other people?

    Social. Media.

    • #81
  22. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    Annefy (View Comment):

    I don’t understand the seduction of fear. JY and I have concluded that it’s like victimhood, which is so attractive to so many people.

    What gets me are the people who Will Not Shut Up about their “co-morbities”. I have a friend … who is now morphing into an acquaintance. Dealing with her has been so stressful I don’t even take her calls. She leaves a VM and I reply by email. The last time I saw her was about 60 days ago with a computer problem I solved for her. In addition, she had some data that was going to take a trip to the T Mobile store to access and I told her the address. She looked at me in horror, claimed for the umpteenth time that she couldn’t leave the house because of COVID and listed all her health problems (which I can recite off the top of my head by now) I told her to send her 26 year old son.

    More horror, that I would suggest he go to the T Mobile store and then bring back to her the deadly virus that is apparently stalking her.

    She then asked me to ask MY 26 year old son to do the errand for her.

    I attempted to quirk my eyebrow and said: so it’s okay for my son to take this horrible risk, but not yours. Got it.

    Way back in March I had some sympathy for the people who were frozen in terror. Now I have nothing but impatience and disdain. They happily hide at home in their perceived safe environment while truckers and grocery store stockers and restaurant delivery people enter the fray every single day.

    This is a hilarious comment and I feel like that every.single.day.  
    Loved this comment I saw on Twitter (wish I’d said it): « There was never any lockdown. There was just middle-class people hiding while working-class people brought them things. »

    • #82
  23. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    Annefy (View Comment):

    cirby (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):
    I will say this: continue to say what you can when you can without ending the relationship if possible. The truth of this thing will come out eventually. At that point gently ensure that your friend remembers who saw through the hype. Then she may begin to think about other things in a new light.

    From past experience, that’s a terrible plan.

    What really happens is that they remember only one thing: you were wrong, in every respect, and they were right. And the only way they can wrap their tiny little minds around it is to switch the sides of the conversation. So instead of being right about the numbers of people who die from COVID, you were wrong about everything else. So they “remember” that you said nobody was going to die from this at all, and that the Democrats were warning us, incessantly, from early January, that precisely the correct number of people would die unless we did something very specific that they told us to do. Never mind what, it was just, you know, specific.

     

    Sorry to say, I agree with this. I saw it play out with my own parents for decades.

    My husband finally convinced me to cut my mom some slack; as he said, if should had to face up to her misconceptions and misplaced priorities it would shock the foundation of her life. And no one is equipped to deal with that in their 70s. (it’s tough at any age)

    The people in my life who were most afraid of COVID in March have all double downed. And I think it’s because they don’t want to face up to the fact that all their sacrifices have (for the most part) mattered naught.

    I was wary and perhaps even scared of Covid in March, but that was for hick, deplorable reasons (it came from China, the Chinese were clearly lying about it, my physician father was concerned…). The people who are now freaking out blew it off back then. Oh and the China part… NOT EVEN on the radar screen anymore.

    • #83
  24. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn:

    I know. I know. People like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with the worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility.

    And there is nothing I can do to help—help her or anyone else.

    I’m ok with her suffering, because she’s inflicted it upon herself, and I can’t do anything about it.

    The problem with people like that, is they want us to suffer along with them, and will do what they can to force us to.

    I think she knows better than that. She may want that outcome and at some level she knows that won’t happen.

    • #84
  25. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    was there a way to check on the internet at any given time whether emergency rooms and/or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and then her query became clearer: if she had to be hospitalized with Covid-19, could she check which hospitals had space?

    I was going to agree with you, but you always have to look at the data.

    My mother just sent me a message that hospitals are overwhelmed in my state in Kansas City, Missouri.

    So I looked some stuff up.

    “KC hospitals ‘bursting at the seams’ with record numbers of COVID-19 patients” … “eight metro hospitals and emergency departments reported such high volumes of patients that they temporarily stopped accepting ambulances”

    • #85
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    was there a way to check on the internet at any given time whether emergency rooms and/or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and then her query became clearer: if she had to be hospitalized with Covid-19, could she check which hospitals had space?

    I was going to agree with you, but you always have to look at the data.

    My mother just sent me a message that hospitals are overwhelmed in my state in Kansas City, Missouri.

    So I looked some stuff up.

    “KC hospitals ‘bursting at the seams’ with record numbers of COVID-19 patients” … “eight metro hospitals and emergency departments reported such high volumes of patients that they temporarily stopped accepting ambulances”

    I just wonder how long “temporary” lasted–long enough to set up some additional rooms and beds, maybe?

    • #86
  27. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    was there a way to check on the internet at any given time whether emergency rooms and/or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and then her query became clearer: if she had to be hospitalized with Covid-19, could she check which hospitals had space?

    I was going to agree with you, but you always have to look at the data.

    My mother just sent me a message that hospitals are overwhelmed in my state in Kansas City, Missouri.

    So I looked some stuff up.

    “KC hospitals ‘bursting at the seams’ with record numbers of COVID-19 patients” … “eight metro hospitals and emergency departments reported such high volumes of patients that they temporarily stopped accepting ambulances”

    ***************

    And data needs context. According to this article:

    All in all, total weekly hospitalizations jumped to 867, compared to 835 last week, pushing several area hospitals to refuse ambulances due to lack of beds.

    According to Wikipedia, Kansas City’s population was 495,327 in 2019. If I’ve done my math right, that’s less than 1% of the population – way less. To me, this says that the hospitals in the area are running on extremely thin margins – not that the population is at an extremely high risk of needing to be hospitalized because of the disease.

     

     

    • #87
  28. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Weeping (View Comment):

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    was there a way to check on the internet at any given time whether emergency rooms and/or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and then her query became clearer: if she had to be hospitalized with Covid-19, could she check which hospitals had space?

    I was going to agree with you, but you always have to look at the data.

    My mother just sent me a message that hospitals are overwhelmed in my state in Kansas City, Missouri.

    So I looked some stuff up.

    “KC hospitals ‘bursting at the seams’ with record numbers of COVID-19 patients” … “eight metro hospitals and emergency departments reported such high volumes of patients that they temporarily stopped accepting ambulances”

    ***************

    And data needs context. According to this article:

    All in all, total weekly hospitalizations jumped to 867, compared to 835 last week, pushing several area hospitals to refuse ambulances due to lack of beds.

    According to Wikipedia, Kansas City’s population was 495,327 in 2019. If I’ve done my math right, that’s less than 1% of the population – way less. To me, this says that the hospitals in the area are running on extremely thin margins – not that the population is at an extremely high risk of needing to be hospitalized because of the disease.

    I was looking at some information about the county located between where I live and my mother lives.

    Active cases trends there are the following:

    • 10/16/2020 — 343
    • 10/02/2020 — 140
    • 09/18/2020 — 85
    • 08/20/2020 — 161
    • 07/16/2020 — 48
    • 07/01/2020 — 19
    • 06/19/2020 — 39
    • 05/12/2020 — 13
    • 04/23/2020 — 44

    We are all tired of this virus, but I think it is going to get worse in some or many places before it gets better.

    The media is located in New York City which has already had its worse period, but other places could still get hit hard.

    • #88
  29. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    was there a way to check on the internet at any given time whether emergency rooms and/or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and then her query became clearer: if she had to be hospitalized with Covid-19, could she check which hospitals had space?

    I was going to agree with you, but you always have to look at the data.

    My mother just sent me a message that hospitals are overwhelmed in my state in Kansas City, Missouri.

    So I looked some stuff up.

    “KC hospitals ‘bursting at the seams’ with record numbers of COVID-19 patients” … “eight metro hospitals and emergency departments reported such high volumes of patients that they temporarily stopped accepting ambulances”

    ***************

    And data needs context. According to this article:

    All in all, total weekly hospitalizations jumped to 867, compared to 835 last week, pushing several area hospitals to refuse ambulances due to lack of beds.

    According to Wikipedia, Kansas City’s population was 495,327 in 2019. If I’ve done my math right, that’s less than 1% of the population – way less. To me, this says that the hospitals in the area are running on extremely thin margins – not that the population is at an extremely high risk of needing to be hospitalized because of the disease.

    I was looking at some information about the county located between where I live and my mother lives.

    Active cases trends there are the following:

    • 10/16/2020 — 343
    • 10/02/2020 — 140
    • 09/18/2020 — 85
    • 08/20/2020 — 161
    • 07/16/2020 — 48
    • 07/01/2020 — 19
    • 06/19/2020 — 39
    • 05/12/2020 — 13
    • 04/23/2020 — 44

    We are all tired of this virus, but I think it is going to get worse in some or many places before it gets better.

    The media is located in New York City which has already had its worse period, but other places could still get hit hard.

    The Northeast pandemic is over. The South (southern CA to FL) peaked at the end of July but rose more slowly to a much smaller max and declined more slowly than NY or MA. Places farthest from the urban hotspots, in the interior of the US and more rural (Oklahoma, Arkansas) are still on the rise but not in NYC kinds of scary rates or numbers. There is now nowhere left in the USA for an initial spread. The bug is gonna have to mutate or just devote into a nuisance over the winter.

    • #89
  30. Roderic Coolidge
    Roderic
    @rhfabian

    So these mostly left leaning people are taking themselves out of the picture?  They are afraid to go anywhere or do anything?

    According to the Wall Street Journal, the southern states currently dominate the US economically because of the relaxation of COVID restrictions there.  

    Certain southern states are doing a little worse in terms of containing the virus, but they have consciously decided to make a trade off.   The South did not do a better job of containing the virus, they aggressively re-opened their economies in spite of the virus.  They did succeed in avoiding a shortage of hospital care, and they continue to do so.   (State department of health web pages have data on hospital bed usage, available for most states.) 

    Some governors refuse to consider anything but saving the most lives possible, but they are making a trade off, a particularly bad one, saving some lives to lose others, and much else besides. 

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.