Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. C.S. Lewis’s Nightmare Future Has Arrived

 

Or so I could not help but thinking as I read this piece from First Things:

Thanks to a new technology in development called in vitro gametogenesis (IVG), in the near future any combination of donor parents—one woman, or two men, or three women and three men—may be able to have a child.

IVG would allow scientists to take the genetic matter of one or more humans and use it to create gametes in a lab. One man, two women, four men, you name it—with this technology, a child could be produced that is the genetic offspring of any or all of them, assuming everything goes as planned. Liberated from the shackles of nature and culture (or so Harvard professor Debora Spar’s recent argument for IVG goes), people will finally be able to fashion their lives and the lives of their offspring on their own terms.

[…]

Spar and others find the potential IVG “revolution” appealing because it promises to break down barriers that heretofore limited the kinds of groupings that could create a child. Spar writes optimistically about how IVG will “dismantle completely the reproductive structure of heterosexuality,” and force us to “reconceptualize just what a family means, and what it can be.” With biological and cultural barriers razed, Spar believes, we will at last be free to steer our lives and relationships as we see fit. Children will be one more mode of self-expression for anyone who can put up the cash.

Spar, however, does not reckon with the fact that increased control will undermine our commitment to the unique personhood and freedom of the human. As C. S. Lewis observed in The Abolition of Man, “if any one age really attains, by eugenics and scientific education, the power to make its descendants what it pleases, all men who live after it are the patients of that power. They are weaker, not stronger.”

Lewis’s 1945 novel, That Hideous Strength, centers on the dystopian schemes of the cult-like and powerful scientific organization N.I.C.E. The group’s goals are precisely the same as this Dr. Spar’s: to employ scientific power to remake humankind according to their dark desires and to trample any person or institution which might stand in their way. Like N.I.C.E., these scientists operate under a gruesome pretense of desiring human uplift, giving forth all smiles and euphemism while blood is shed behind closed doors. Like N.I.C.E., these scientists believe they are exercising their own genius, but are ultimately only tools of another—and far darker—power.

In every conceivable aspect, whether in art or law or culture or faith or the economy or what have you, the progressive desire is to destroy what is in order to institute what cannot be. The endless promises of better, brighter futures through human potential at last unchained from outdated pieties lead only to the trenches, gulags, and gas chambers. Here in 2020, on the other side of four years of the Trump administration, the zealotry of progress has reached a fever-pitch. Joe Biden is most likely our next President, and Kamala Harris soon after him if Nancy Pelosi’s actions give clues to anything. A fully progressive executive and legislative branches, hungering for revenge and a remaking of the world around them, will only accelerate the horrors of “scientific” progress.

In Lewis’s novel, the day is won through human cooperation with heavenly powers. It is only by divesting ourselves of pride and ambition and pursuing what is holy that man is truly transformed into something greater than he is. All this talk of remaking man with science is no more than noise, lies, and nonsense. It is, in its truest sense, pure Babel.

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  1. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    IVG runs into a few problems rapidly. For one, if you are female, you have no Y chromosome. Any sperm cell is going to need to be completely synthesized, and two women absolutely cannot have a son. That’s aside from the obvious problem of where a male – male baby is going to gestate.

    That said, I would imagine this technology could adapted to allow people with genes for hereditary disorders like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell to have kids without passing on the trait. Genetic engineering means fewer birth defects without the need to abort fetuses.

    • #1
    • October 10, 2020, at 12:36 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  2. Randy Webster Member

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    two women absolutely cannot have a son.

    That’s a win-win, isn’t it? Seeing as how males are so problematic.

    • #2
    • October 10, 2020, at 1:06 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  3. Randy Webster Member

    I think that’s the exact same edition of That Hideous Strength that I have.

    • #3
    • October 10, 2020, at 1:07 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  4. Hartmann von Aue Member

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    IVG runs into a few problems rapidly. For one, if you are female, you have no Y chromosome. Any sperm cell is going to need to be completely synthesized, and two women absolutely cannot have a son. That’s aside from the obvious problem of where a male – male baby is going to gestate.

    That said, I would imagine this technology could adapted to allow people with genes for hereditary disorders like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell to have kids without passing on the trait. Genetic engineering means fewer birth defects without the need to abort fetuses.

    RE: Your second problem for IVG: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-29485996

    Some recent research on a far-left LBGTQ site stated that uterine transplant to a transgender woman is the next step to “putting us in complete control of our sexuality”. 

     

    • #4
    • October 10, 2020, at 1:49 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  5. Saint Augustine Member

    Good post.

    (I edited a nifty little book on sci-fi film and the Abolition.)

    • #5
    • October 10, 2020, at 4:46 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  6. Z in MT Member

    And in news from the future: viral encephalitis in 2103 wipes out a fourth of humanity when a gene added to make children have on average 20 more IQ points, makes the population particularly susceptible to a new mutation.

    Engineering is really good at optimizing along any variable or set of varables one requires. The problem is that reality has more variables than can be accounted. This is a big reason why we self-driving cars are still not here.

    • #6
    • October 10, 2020, at 7:25 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  7. Flicker Coolidge

    Z in MT (View Comment):

    And in news from the future: viral encephalitis in 2103 wipes out a fourth of humanity when a gene added to make children have on average 20 more IQ points, makes the population particularly susceptible to a new mutation.

    Engineering is really good at optimizing along any variable or set of varables one requires. The problem is that reality has more variables than can be accounted. This is a big reason why we self-driving cars are still not here.

    And iirc mRNA makes proteins strands that self-fold into protein catalysts. These catalysts have numerous active sites. And they are stimulated to be produced based on another system to create the right mRNA due to a timely need for a particular catalyst. If you create a new mRNA and insert it, or for that matter change the genome to create that new mRNA, how do we know that the new mRNA won’t create a protein that has more than one active site and the other new active sites won’t have profoundly negative effects?

    Trial and error?

    • #7
    • October 10, 2020, at 7:40 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  8. Joshua Bissey Coolidge

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    I think that’s the exact same edition of That Hideous Strength that I have.

    The same one I have, as well, but since we’re all wearing masks right now, I’m reading this one:

    • #8
    • October 10, 2020, at 8:28 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  9. Henry Castaigne Member

    Z in MT (View Comment):
    Z in MT

    And in news from the future: viral encephalitis in 2103 wipes out a fourth of humanity when a gene added to make children have on average 20 more IQ points, makes the population particularly susceptible to a new mutation.

    Worth it.

    Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - You're Pretty

    • #9
    • October 10, 2020, at 10:21 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  10. Henry Castaigne Member

    Electro Demas: All this talk of remaking man with science is no more than noise, lies, and nonsense. It is, in its truest sense, pure Babel.

    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile. Right now we should focus on genetically removing the worst genes. Even when we have sophisticated genetic engineering we will only be able to improve on the human genome rather than remake it. Think of it like a series of patches that updates your computer software. That’s not the same as making an entirely new system.

    • #10
    • October 10, 2020, at 10:45 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  11. Randy Webster Member

    The eugenicists thought the same way.

    • #11
    • October 10, 2020, at 10:56 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  12. Saint Augustine Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    • #12
    • October 10, 2020, at 11:20 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  13. Henry Castaigne Member

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    ??? So our genes are different because Jesus? How did that happen. There is no textual evidence of him getting it on or giving money to his relatives so they could breed more. 

    • #13
    • October 10, 2020, at 11:26 PM PDT
    • Like
  14. Saint Augustine Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    ??? So our genes are different because Jesus? How did that happen. There is no textual evidence of him getting it on or giving money to his relatives so they could breed more.

    Who said anything about genes?

    • #14
    • October 10, 2020, at 11:30 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. Flicker Coolidge

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    ??? So our genes are different because Jesus? How did that happen. There is no textual evidence of him getting it on or giving money to his relatives so they could breed more.

    It’s spiritual seed.

    • #15
    • October 11, 2020, at 12:10 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  16. Henry Castaigne Member

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    ??? So our genes are different because Jesus? How did that happen. There is no textual evidence of him getting it on or giving money to his relatives so they could breed more.

    It’s spiritual seed.

    You mean his teachings? 

    • #16
    • October 11, 2020, at 2:50 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  17. Saint Augustine Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    ??? So our genes are different because Jesus? How did that happen. There is no textual evidence of him getting it on or giving money to his relatives so they could breed more.

    It’s spiritual seed.

    You mean his teachings?

    There’s more than that. It’s in Mere Christianity. Read the chapter on “The Obstinate Toy Soldiers,” and probably also the chapters before and after that.

    • #17
    • October 11, 2020, at 5:14 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    The eugenicists thought the same way.

    Eugenics generally means selectively breeding people like cattle. Bad things happen to the unlucky person who is unfit.

    Genetic Engineering can be done to people without killing people. The genes are altered so the birth defect does not occur.

    They may have the same end goal, but one uses terrible means.

     

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Z in MT (View Comment):

    And in news from the future: viral encephalitis in 2103 wipes out a fourth of humanity when a gene added to make children have on average 20 more IQ points, makes the population particularly susceptible to a new mutation.

    Engineering is really good at optimizing along any variable or set of varables one requires. The problem is that reality has more variables than can be accounted. This is a big reason why we self-driving cars are still not here.

    And iirc mRNA makes proteins strands that self-fold into protein catalysts. These catalysts have numerous active sites. And they are stimulated to be produced based on another system to create the right mRNA due to a timely need for a particular catalyst. If you create a new mRNA and insert it, or for that matter change the genome to create that new mRNA, how do we know that the new mRNA won’t create a protein that has more than one active site and the other new active sites won’t have profoundly negative effects?

    Trial and error?

    For the virus case, I see no reason random chance is inherently better than design. 

    Any human gene therapy trial is going to tested thoroughly in animals and cell culture before being put in use. It’s similar to developing a medication. The rule is DNA acts as the master record, then the cell makes mRNA (m is for messenger) from the DNA. mRNA is edited a bit then sent to a ribosome to be synthesized into proteins. Most proteins have several active sites for proper regulation of their activity.

    • #18
    • October 11, 2020, at 8:10 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  19. Henry Castaigne Member

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    The eugenicists thought the same way.

    Eugenics generally means selectively breeding people like cattle. Bad things happen to the unlucky person who is unfit.

    Genetic Engineering can be done to people without killing people. The genes are altered so the birth defect does not occur.

    They may have the same end goal, but one uses terrible means.

     

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Z in MT (View Comment):

    And in news from the future: viral encephalitis in 2103 wipes out a fourth of humanity when a gene added to make children have on average 20 more IQ points, makes the population particularly susceptible to a new mutation.

    Engineering is really good at optimizing along any variable or set of varables one requires. The problem is that reality has more variables than can be accounted. This is a big reason why we self-driving cars are still not here.

    And iirc mRNA makes proteins strands that self-fold into protein catalysts. These catalysts have numerous active sites. And they are stimulated to be produced based on another system to create the right mRNA due to a timely need for a particular catalyst. If you create a new mRNA and insert it, or for that matter change the genome to create that new mRNA, how do we know that the new mRNA won’t create a protein that has more than one active site and the other new active sites won’t have profoundly negative effects?

    Trial and error?

    For the virus case, I see no reason random chance is inherently better than design.

    Any human gene therapy trial is going to tested thoroughly in animals and cell culture before being put in use. It’s similar to developing a medication. The rule is DNA acts as the master record, then the cell makes mRNA (m is for messenger) from the DNA. mRNA is edited a bit then sent to a ribosome to be synthesized into proteins. Most proteins have several active sites for proper regulation of their activity.

    Why is it that the Ricochetti who are very interested in science are much more open to genetic engineering?

    • #19
    • October 11, 2020, at 8:53 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  20. Flicker Coolidge

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We won’t be able to remake man for awhile.

    No, the remaking is already ongoing. Jesus started it. All in Lewis.

    ??? So our genes are different because Jesus? How did that happen. There is no textual evidence of him getting it on or giving money to his relatives so they could breed more.

    It’s spiritual seed.

    You mean his teachings?

    We are moral beings. Though I don’t know much of what being created in the image of God means, I’m sure that it does not refer to opposable thumbs and the ability to reason. It think it must have to do with a moral nature that other animals don’t have; a spiritual structure to our being that is in some way very like the spiritual character of God.

    The “seed” is often mentioned to in the Bible and it refers to the Word of God, which is at its origin God Himself, and is alive and active and grows and produces fruit. This seed or of God is spiritual and when planted in us, if we allow it, changes us, and gives us new life and new character. This life and character will not be fully formed or fully evident in us while in this earthly existence, but it is spiritual in nature and as such is preeminent in what it is to be fully and rightly human.

    • #20
    • October 11, 2020, at 11:35 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  21. Hartmann von Aue Member

    What struck me and Vrouwe re-reading That Hideous Strength again and again over the years was just how eeriely, uncannily accurate his depiction of university academic life in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s was. He wrote the book 75 years ago and yet the presentation of universities is discomfitingly familiar to both of us. 

    This is also the book I refer to when arguing that Lewis is a horror writer on par with Lovecraft or Clive Barker. Lesbian rape? It’s in there. Demonic possession of a corpse? It’s in there. Secret cult devoted to Satan that includes a supposed clergyman? It’s in there. 

    • #21
    • October 11, 2020, at 1:29 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  22. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    What struck me and Vrouwe re-reading That Hideous Strength again and again over the years was just how eeriely, uncannily accurate his depiction of university academic life in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s was. He wrote the book 75 years ago and yet the presentation of universities is discomfitingly familiar to both of us.

    Absolutely prescient. Frighteningly so.

    • #22
    • October 11, 2020, at 1:47 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  23. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Electro Demas: In every conceivable aspect, whether in art or law or culture or faith or the economy or what have you, the progressive desire is to destroy what is in order to institute what cannot be.

    Electro,

    This is the bottom card. It won’t just end badly it will end horribly badly. Maybe with Gd’s help, we can head them off.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #23
    • October 11, 2020, at 11:34 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  24. Henry Castaigne Member

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The “seed” is often mentioned to in the Bible and it refers to the Word of God, which is at its origin God Himself, and is alive and active and grows and produces fruit. This seed or of God is spiritual and when planted in us, if we allow it, changes us, and gives us new life and new character. This life and character will not be fully formed or fully evident in us while in this earthly existence, but it is spiritual in nature and as such is preeminent in what it is to be fully and rightly human.

    Doesn’t fully human mean someone who has attained enough social status to spread his genes? Isn’t rightly human who is righteous a human that rejects his nature?

    • #24
    • October 12, 2020, at 1:49 AM PDT
    • 1 like
    • This comment has been edited.
  25. Saint Augustine Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Doesn’t fully human mean someone who has attained enough social status to spread his genes?

    No.

    Isn’t rightly human who is righteous a human that rejects his nature?

    No

    Maybe if you define nature purely in terms of what our bodies inspire us to want.

    But why on earth should we do that?

    • #25
    • October 12, 2020, at 2:02 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  26. Stina Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The “seed” is often mentioned to in the Bible and it refers to the Word of God, which is at its origin God Himself, and is alive and active and grows and produces fruit. This seed or of God is spiritual and when planted in us, if we allow it, changes us, and gives us new life and new character. This life and character will not be fully formed or fully evident in us while in this earthly existence, but it is spiritual in nature and as such is preeminent in what it is to be fully and rightly human.

    Doesn’t fully human mean someone who has attained enough social status to spread his genes? Isn’t rightly human who is righteous a human that rejects his nature?

    So they aren’t human until puberty?

    • #26
    • October 12, 2020, at 4:57 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  27. Front Seat Cat Member

    I can’t help but connect the dots with what this post is about, and a warning from a priest who has since passed, along with the Netflix documentary called The Social Dilemma, along with the decline of faith, along with the fallout from the pandemic, along with the patents that Bill Gates in involved in……. I keep hearing the phrase “something is going on” – and it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGhoFKXnuiw&list=PLxbZsLNS7KW-O_rxLV7bXXDTLNDq06gsL&index=21

     

    • #27
    • October 12, 2020, at 6:48 AM PDT
    • Like
  28. Henry Castaigne Member

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The “seed” is often mentioned to in the Bible and it refers to the Word of God, which is at its origin God Himself, and is alive and active and grows and produces fruit. This seed or of God is spiritual and when planted in us, if we allow it, changes us, and gives us new life and new character. This life and character will not be fully formed or fully evident in us while in this earthly existence, but it is spiritual in nature and as such is preeminent in what it is to be fully and rightly human.

    Doesn’t fully human mean someone who has attained enough social status to spread his genes? Isn’t rightly human who is righteous a human that rejects his nature?

    So they aren’t human until puberty?

    In terms of evolution, they don’t count until puberty unless they can protect the genes of their kin. 

    • #28
    • October 12, 2020, at 7:15 AM PDT
    • Like
  29. Flicker Coolidge

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The “seed” is often mentioned to in the Bible and it refers to the Word of God, which is at its origin God Himself, and is alive and active and grows and produces fruit. This seed or of God is spiritual and when planted in us, if we allow it, changes us, and gives us new life and new character. This life and character will not be fully formed or fully evident in us while in this earthly existence, but it is spiritual in nature and as such is preeminent in what it is to be fully and rightly human.

    Doesn’t fully human mean someone who has attained enough social status to spread his genes? Isn’t rightly human who is righteous a human that rejects his nature?

    No, you’re thinking of the earthly realm. I am referring here to the spiritual realm which is higher and of greater consequence. By “right” I mean in accord with God’s purpose and expectations. “Fully” means lacking nothing. As I used fully and rightly human it means human to the degree that fulfills one’s mandate to glorify God and live in communion with Him; to embody God’s fullest expectations of you, His creation, as He created you ultimately to be.

    • #29
    • October 12, 2020, at 9:28 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  30. Henry Castaigne Member

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The “seed” is often mentioned to in the Bible and it refers to the Word of God, which is at its origin God Himself, and is alive and active and grows and produces fruit. This seed or of God is spiritual and when planted in us, if we allow it, changes us, and gives us new life and new character. This life and character will not be fully formed or fully evident in us while in this earthly existence, but it is spiritual in nature and as such is preeminent in what it is to be fully and rightly human.

    Doesn’t fully human mean someone who has attained enough social status to spread his genes? Isn’t rightly human who is righteous a human that rejects his nature?

    No, you’re thinking of the earthly realm. I am referring here to the spiritual realm which is higher and of greater consequence. By “right” I mean in accord with God’s purpose and expectations. “Fully” means lacking nothing. As I used fully and rightly human it means human to the degree that fulfills one’s mandate to glorify God and live in communion with Him; to embody God’s fullest expectations of you, His creation, as He created you ultimately to be.

    Never met a guy like that. 

    • #30
    • October 12, 2020, at 9:36 AM PDT
    • Like