Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Superstitious Talismans in Politics

 

I have come to believe that for many mask wearers, there is a subconscious belief that if they are willing to suffer enough, then Donald Trump will not win the election.

Does this sound too wacky to you? I am seeing an enormous amount of superstition around COVID, and also around this election. Nobody cares about actual data anymore. They just reckon that if they don’t wear a mask, they’ll be struck down. There is a term for that, and it is not “infectious disease expert.”

When you add the political situation into the mix, I really am beginning to wonder what happens after the election. If Biden wins, COVID vanishes as an issue within days and weeks. I am certain of it. But if Trump wins, will it be seen by the lib-maskers as proof that their deity/superstition has failed them, that they have no suffered enough, or they need to do even more than suffer with masks in order to rid the world of Orange Man?

In my experience, very few people lose religious faith just because of data. Instead, they escalate. In which case, there is a plausible argument to be made that a Biden election may, at least in the short term, lead to the end of the COVID-crisis and the end of protests and riots.

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor

    I have pretty much given up in trying to understand the way most Lib brains work. But I agree: Covid will be gone if Joe wins. I heard a number of doctors attack Gov. DeSantis for his opening up Florida; those doctors said his taking that step was irresponsible until the “disease is under control.” Nobody seems to be saying what “under control” means. I suspect for some that Joe’s election would be the definition. Too bad for them. 

    • #1
    • September 27, 2020, at 8:18 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  2. Mark Camp Member

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    • #2
    • September 27, 2020, at 8:22 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  3. Seawriter Contributor

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    Beat me to it.

    • #3
    • September 27, 2020, at 8:24 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  4. Henry Castaigne Member

    iWe: In my experience, very few people lose religious faith just because of data. Instead, they escalate. In which case, there is a plausible argument to be made that a Biden election may, at least in the short term, lead to the end of the Covid-Crisis and the end of protests and riots.

    Data means nothing to most people. Humanity has always been ruled by superstition. This is documented with disgusting accuracy in the book, The Golden Bough. 

    • #4
    • September 27, 2020, at 8:35 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  5. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    If it was about self-punishment, then they wouldn’t try so hard to get others to mask up. It is about control and the humiliation is part of the control. Leftists are fascists, because Karen knows better.

    FYI, I spent 5 hours at a sports bar yesterday and only had to wear a mask to/from the bathroom. It was almost normal.

    • #5
    • September 27, 2020, at 8:36 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  6. MarciN Member

    I just spent the last two days in the dystopia of Biden-Sanders Burlington, Vermont, and I noticed a definite calming down. People have the social distancing thing and the mask rules down to a system now. It really isn’t too bad, given where we started in March freaking out over the killer fomites.

    Everything is weird, for sure. The hotel I stayed in was overwhelming with covid rules and practices. The lobby that is usually bustling with people chatting amiably with their morning coffee was depressingly empty and cold.

    But observing how people were actually implementing the covid rules, it was actually pretty sane. And as soon as they could–exiting the main lobby doors to the outside, for example–the masks came off and the smiles came out.

    I was talking to someone Friday night who has a kid at UVM, and in-person school has resumed. Out of the thousands of students attending there from all over the country, there have been only two who have tested positive for covid.

    And the Waldorf school my grandson attends is back to almost normal. My ten-year-old grandson has a little system of rules that is fun for him, and he doesn’t give the virus any more thought than that. He does not have to wear a mask all day. His classes are mostly outside right now, which he loves anyway. The rule the school has is either mask or social distance. It’s actually working.

    By the way, the low number of infectious cases in Burlington, Vermont, is exactly the way it is on Cape Cod too, and that is extraordinary given how many visitors we’ve had here from all over the country. I’m coming to the conclusion that it is actually not as infectious as it originally seemed to be. We’re missing something.

    I wonder if it has everything to do with viral load. The person in a quarantined city gets exposed a hundred times, not once, and so can’t mount an immune system defense, becomes symptomatic, and spreads the virus to others. In contrast, in a suburban or rural socially distanced space, the virus simply never gets going.

    There’s some superstition involved–“I think we’re okay, but if we stop doing all these things, it will come back because that’s the way life works.” :-) The insurance industry thrives on that very human sub-data fear: “If I don’t get this insurance, I will regret it.” :-)

    I think we don’t understand viruses very well yet in terms of how they actually get transmitted within communities. The good news is that in order for our world to become a small global village, we have to master this knowledge. If we have do that because of this pandemic, we’ll come out ahead of where we were going into it. I’m glad it wasn’t something far worse that prompted us to get this knowledge.

    • #6
    • September 27, 2020, at 9:10 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  7. Henry Castaigne Member

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):
    FYI, I spent 5 hours at a sports bar yesterday and only had to wear a mask to/from the bathroom. It was almost normal.

    So you usually spend 6 hours at a sports bar?

    • #7
    • September 27, 2020, at 9:51 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  8. Al French of Damascus Moderator

    I think a lot of it stems from risk tolerance. In general, liberals are less risk tolerant than conservatives. Part of their desire to have the government take care of them.

    • #8
    • September 27, 2020, at 10:25 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  9. Charlotte Member
    CharlotteJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    iWe: In my experience, very few people lose religious faith just because of data. Instead, they escalate. In which case, there is a plausible argument to be made that a Biden election may, at least in the short term, lead to the end of the Covid-Crisis and the end of protests and riots.

    Data means nothing to most people. Humanity has always been ruled by superstition. This is documented with disgusting accuracy in the book, The Golden Bough.

    If data meant anything to most people, we would not be busily remaking our society in response to 0.2% of fatal police shootings.

    • #9
    • September 27, 2020, at 11:14 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  10. Charlotte Member
    CharlotteJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    iWe: if they are willing to suffer enough, then Donald Trump will not win the election

    Good observation. I need to think about it more, but I believe there is something to this.

    • #10
    • September 27, 2020, at 11:15 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. Mark Camp Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Data means nothing to most people.

    Data and Conclusion are two of the three sentences in a logical argument. They are as close as most folks come to thinking logically.

    Concrete data without an abstract principle should mean nothing to anyone. But data unfortunately means something to most people.

    Here is an example of “two-sentence logic”, the logic of concretists. “Unemployment was 3% last year and 4% this year. Therefore, vote for me”.

    • #11
    • September 27, 2020, at 11:30 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. Barfly Member

    Cue the soundtrack while you read.

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I have pretty much given up in trying to understand the way most Lib brains work.

    That’s because they don’t work they way you mean. They idle.

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    iWe: In my experience, very few people lose religious faith just because of data. Instead, they escalate. In which case, there is a plausible argument to be made that a Biden election may, at least in the short term, lead to the end of the Covid-Crisis and the end of protests and riots.

    Data means nothing to most people. Humanity has always been ruled by superstition. This is documented with disgusting accuracy in the book, The Golden Bough.

    More great Sunday reading. What they do believe is called sympathetic magic.

    • #12
    • September 27, 2020, at 1:57 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  13. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I have pretty much given up in trying to understand the way most Lib brains work.

    That’s because they don’t work they way you mean. They idle.

    They are running a little hot. Probably the bearings.

    • #13
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:08 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  14. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge

    If Biden wins, he will have to make good on all the campaign contributions he has received from Big Pharma. So expect part of his victory acceptance speech, made some time in March of 2021 perhaps? to reiterate that he has no actual health experience, so he will defer to the guidelines issued by the “health experts.” (This spiel about deferring to health experts is the same drivel now issued by almost all Democrat contenders for local offices here in Calif.)

    This deference to health experts means Fauci, a Bill Gates’ proxy, and Birx, a Bloomberg proxy, will continue to stipulate more lockdowns, more mask wearing, and then of course, the electronic harness that for the rest of our lives will be ever present surrounding us. (In a recent “Weekend Edition” out of Melbourne Australia, the Talking Heads were enthused about how this harness will be ubiquitous, and that feature means we don’t need to worry if we have remained 6 feet apart. Apparently then the authorities will be told when we haven’t, and then “gentle suggestions” made by local police will ensure we do not make the same mistake twice.

    Here is a recent demonstration of “gentle suggestions” being made to a woman who is asthmatic and had doctor’s permission to not wear a mask:

    https://tinyurl.com/y4k38z5e

    That is exactly what is in store for those of us who live in Dem controlled states, regardless of who wins, and for all of us should Biden win. Except it will be expanded to hold us in line for not being 6 feet apart, not having a vax certificate handy, etc.

    • #14
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:22 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  15. Flicker Coolidge

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    But don’t we ever get tired of all the mass hysteria? The Orange Man Bad, Russia stealing the election, the Russia probe, the Ukraine Impeachment, the Wuhan virus — no masks, masks, vaccine and now, no vaccine — Anti-fa riots and murders, BLM calling for the abolition of police and police assassinations, Trump being a threat to the Constitution and will use the army to install himself as dictator, the retired army stating that Trump is a threat to the Constitution and must be removed, Trump stealing the election, and even Trump being escorted out even if he wins, and most recently Trump’s SCOTUS nomination is somehow illegitimate and Barrett will introduce a Handmaid’s Republic.

    None of this makes any sense, but people are incensed over it all. Don’t they get tired of the hysteria?

    • #15
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:29 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  16. Flicker Coolidge

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):
    If it was about self-punishment, then they wouldn’t try so hard to get others to mask up.

    It’s not self-punishment in the micro, it’s self-punishment in the macro, whole-world, societal sense. We all are guilty!

    • #16
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:32 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  17. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):
    FYI, I spent 5 hours at a sports bar yesterday and only had to wear a mask to/from the bathroom. It was almost normal.

    So you usually spend 6 hours at a sports bar?

    @dong

    Don, I wondered where your wisdom came from, as I so often enjoy your posts.

    i am not surprised at all to find you like your brews, or hanging out with people.

    • #17
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:38 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. Henry Castaigne Member

    Barfly (View Comment):
    More great Sunday reading. What they do believe is called sympathetic magic.

    Most people believe in sympathetic magic. It’s much more of a human universal than freedom or prosperity or any of that nonsense. 

    • #18
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:38 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  19. Henry Castaigne Member

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    But don’t we ever get tired of all the mass hysteria? The Orange Man Bad, Russia stealing the election, the Russia probe, the Ukraine Impeachment, the Wuhan virus — no masks, masks, vaccine and now, no vaccine — Anti-fa riots and murders, BLM calling for the abolition of police and police assassinations, Trump being a threat to the Constitution and will use the army to install himself as dictator, the retired army stating that Trump is a threat to the Constitution and must be removed, Trump stealing the election, and even Trump being escorted out even if he wins, and most recently Trump’s SCOTUS nomination is somehow illegitimate and Barrett will introduce a Handmaid’s Republic.

    None of this makes any sense, but people are incensed over it all. Don’t they get tired of the hysteria?

    No. No they do not. Humans are designed to think that the world is ending all the time. This is why they should be remade in the image of logic rather than the image of chimpanzees. More Aristotle and less superstition.

    • #19
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:40 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  20. CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker Coolidge

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    But don’t we ever get tired of all the mass hysteria? The Orange Man Bad, Russia stealing the election, the Russia probe, the Ukraine Impeachment, the Wuhan virus — no masks, masks, vaccine and now, no vaccine — Anti-fa riots and murders, BLM calling for the abolition of police and police assassinations, Trump being a threat to the Constitution and will use the army to install himself as dictator, the retired army stating that Trump is a threat to the Constitution and must be removed, Trump stealing the election, and even Trump being escorted out even if he wins, and most recently Trump’s SCOTUS nomination is somehow illegitimate and Barrett will introduce a Handmaid’s Republic.

    None of this makes any sense, but people are incensed over it all. Don’t they get tired of the hysteria?

    Unfortunately those who are the most hysterical have gained the most.

    They can loot, plunder, commit arson, assault people, and commit murder and then possibly be arrested. But they are immediately released, with someone else with Big Monied Pockets paying their bail.

    • #20
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:43 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  21. Henry Castaigne Member

    CarolJoy, Thread Hijacker (View Comment):
    This deference to health experts means Fauci, a Bill Gates’ proxy, and Birx, a Bloomberg proxy, will continue to stipulate more lockdowns,

    I have heard that people can be wrong and harmful without having evil billionaires behind them.

    • #21
    • September 27, 2020, at 2:47 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  22. Mark Camp Member

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    But don’t we ever get tired of all the mass hysteria? The Orange Man Bad, Russia stealing the election, the Russia probe, the Ukraine Impeachment, the Wuhan virus — no masks, masks, vaccine and now, no vaccine — Anti-fa riots and murders, BLM calling for the abolition of police and police assassinations, Trump being a threat to the Constitution and will use the army to install himself as dictator, the retired army stating that Trump is a threat to the Constitution and must be removed, Trump stealing the election, and even Trump being escorted out even if he wins, and most recently Trump’s SCOTUS nomination is somehow illegitimate and Barrett will introduce a Handmaid’s Republic.

    None of this makes any sense, but people are incensed over it all. Don’t they get tired of the hysteria?

    You don’t get tired of hysteria in the sense I meant it: a generalized, irrational, incapacitating fear. It simply drives you toward submission to whatever promises to protect you, make you safe.

    • #22
    • September 27, 2020, at 4:56 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  23. Headedwest Coolidge

    “If I follow every rule correctly, I will live forever.”

    • #23
    • September 27, 2020, at 5:58 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  24. Flicker Coolidge

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    iWe: Does this sound too wacky to you?

    No. Mass hysteria is the only reasonable explanation for it.

    But don’t we ever get tired of all the mass hysteria? The Orange Man Bad, Russia stealing the election, the Russia probe, the Ukraine Impeachment, the Wuhan virus — no masks, masks, vaccine and now, no vaccine — Anti-fa riots and murders, BLM calling for the abolition of police and police assassinations, Trump being a threat to the Constitution and will use the army to install himself as dictator, the retired army stating that Trump is a threat to the Constitution and must be removed, Trump stealing the election, and even Trump being escorted out even if he wins, and most recently Trump’s SCOTUS nomination is somehow illegitimate and Barrett will introduce a Handmaid’s Republic.

    None of this makes any sense, but people are incensed over it all. Don’t they get tired of the hysteria?

    You don’t get tired of hysteria in the sense I meant it: a generalized, irrational, incapacitating fear. It simply drives you toward submission to whatever promises to protect you, make you safe.

    I think that applies to these examples.

    • #24
    • September 27, 2020, at 6:02 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  25. Weeping Member

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I’m coming to the conclusion that it is actually not as infectious as it originally seemed to be. We’re missing something.

    I agree.

    • #25
    • September 27, 2020, at 6:04 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  26. Rick N. Coolidge

    I’m a Cleveland Browns fan, and I found a Browns Backers club in my town. I watched the game with the club today at a sports bar. A few wore masks, but most people had a beer or food, so whatever benefit the masks supposedly have was nullified. It felt so refreshingly normal (and the Browns won, so it was a good day). I only wore it to and from the restroom. I suspect had I not done so, no one would have cared.

    The rules are labyrinthine and aren’t effectively enforced because they aren’t enforceable. I’m especially confused by the people who wear them in their cars when they’re alone with the windows up. That’s almost a talismanic reaction to a threat from some kind of fake god. This really is a superstitious response. And we’re told we’re wrong for holding our state governments to account for taking power without question.

    I’m not a religious person, so I know I’m in the minority of Ricochet and the Conservative movement in general, but I know that superstition is also not the same thing as religion. Wearing a mask at this point really looks more like a signal that *you care and are paying attention* rather than being an effective measure of slowing the spread of a virus. That’s superstition, along the lines of wearing the same jersey every Sunday to bring your football team good luck.

    David Bahnson (sp?) of the Radio Free California podcast (and many other things) is right. If a problem is medicalized, then people will fall right in line and do as they’re told. I’m shocked at the willingness of Americans to do as they’re told with no question, simply because it’s a medical problem.

    Those of us who were skeptical from the beginning of the nonsense numbers will be proven right. I hope to tell many people “I told you so.”

    • #26
    • September 27, 2020, at 6:27 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  27. Saint Augustine Member

    Rick N. (View Comment):

    The rules are labyrinthine and aren’t effectively enforced because they aren’t enforceable. I’m especially confused by the people who wear them in their cars when they’re alone with the windows up. . . .

    . . . Wearing a mask at this point really looks more like a signal that *you care and are paying attention* rather than being an effective measure of slowing the spread of a virus.

    I dig, I dig.

    I still support masks–in enclosed, crowded, public spaces. On the MTR and on the bus.

    In crowded open-air spaces, I think it’s not crazy to wear it. I usually have it on when the streets are crowded.

    But good grief–masks in open-air, sunlit spaces that aren’t even crowded! Why? Why, people, why???? Alone in your car–why????

    • #27
    • September 27, 2020, at 6:37 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  28. Flicker Coolidge

    Rick N. (View Comment):
    I’m shocked at the willingness of Americans to do as they’re told with no question, simply because it’s a medical problem.

    I’m not quite so surprised. there needs to be a critical mass of protesters for it to be effective. One person at a time gets picked of and carted off to jail one at a time. The police can do this in preference to fighting rioters.

    A herd of running sheep can actually be dangerous. But how easily it is to queue them up and make them wade through sheep dip.

    And look at how the police are treating women in Australia. One woman was half strangled by police for walking on the sidewalk without a mask. Another woman was arrested in her home in front of her child, on the way to a OB sonogram, for tweeting about a lock-down protest.

    And we all know about the woman that was tased for not wearing a mask at her son’s ball game. And the church goers who were arrested for meeting outside and singing.

    They pick us off one by one until — will we ever protest enough to change the government’s attitude?

    • #28
    • September 27, 2020, at 7:29 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  29. Manny Member

    iWe:

    I have come to believe that for many mask wearers, there is a subconscious belief that if they are willing to suffer enough, then Donald Trump will not win the election.

    Does this sound too wacky to you?

    Not wacky. I think you’re right. In fact I had thought that this all had reached a level of religion by those who are not religious. Personally I think this starts to go away after the election no matter who wins. But I hope it’s Trump that wins.

    • #29
    • September 27, 2020, at 8:58 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  30. Manny Member

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Rick N. (View Comment):

    The rules are labyrinthine and aren’t effectively enforced because they aren’t enforceable. I’m especially confused by the people who wear them in their cars when they’re alone with the windows up. . . .

    . . . Wearing a mask at this point really looks more like a signal that *you care and are paying attention* rather than being an effective measure of slowing the spread of a virus.

    I dig, I dig.

    I still support masks–in enclosed, crowded, public spaces. On the MTR and on the bus.

    In crowded open-air spaces, I think it’s not crazy to wear it. I usually have it on when the streets are crowded.

    But good grief–masks in open-air, sunlit spaces that aren’t even crowded! Why? Why, people, why???? Alone in your car–why????

    I agree. It’s still contagious, and I don’t find wearing a mask in a store too much of a hindrance.

    • #30
    • September 27, 2020, at 9:00 PM PDT
    • 4 likes