Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Can We Vote Ourselves Out of This Mess?

 

I have to admit I am feeling a bit depressed — a discouraged optimist. We are moving toward an election for which the outcome will not just be disappointing for some, but fundamentally suspect for far too many. It’s one thing to think the country made a poor choice. It’s quite another to think that the country made a good decision but the people have been denied their choice.

No doubt that is precisely what certain (somewhat) illiterate voters felt coming out of the 2016 election. But that was a basic misunderstanding of the electoral system embedded in the Constitution — getting more total votes cast nationally did not mean that Hillary was the winner. There may have been some nutters who thought the Russians fiddled with vote counts to put President Trump over the top, but that was never a serious theme of #Resistance. Instead, it was the belief that somehow the Russian masterminds had influenced voters to support Trump. Never happened. But created a lot of trouble for President Trump and was a real drag on his administration.

But if a significant number of people credibly believe the vote count was fiddled in 2020 from mail-in voting, we are moving into a gawdawful mess. And, since we did vote, obviously voting is not the answer.

Reports about thrown away ballots that presumably favor Trump underscore the President’s concern about a fraudulent election outcome. But there is evidence that operatives from either party are capable of ballot shenanigans. Whoever loses is going to challenge perceived voting irregularities. In Bush v. Gore, the focus was solely on one state. We will be lucky if the challenges only involve one or a handful of states.

And let’s extend this a bit. Everyone is focused on the legitimacy of the presidential election, but what about the House or Senate? Why would fraudulent votes only be targeting the top of the ticket? After all, if the goal is chaos in service of an outcome not decided by the Electoral College, you need to make sure the House and Senate are organized for your desires.

This is why voting integrity matters. If somehow we survive this mess with constitution-loving elements still in charge, this must be fixed. You can’t vote yourself out of a mess if you can’t have confidence in the vote. And confidence in the vote is more important than the outcome of the vote. Or at least it used to be. Pray it is again.

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  1. Stina Member

    Isn’t this how most of our attempts at democracy building overseas ended up? No confidence in the voting system?

    It’s like our 20-30 years in the ME was a crash course on how to do regime change in our own country.

    • #1
    • September 26, 2020, at 8:53 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  2. Bryan G. Stephens, Trump Aveng… Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens, Trump Aveng…Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The fact one party does not want to fix it speaks volumes

    • #2
    • September 26, 2020, at 9:01 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  3. Bob Wainwright Member

    Making voter fraud a capital offense would help. I’d like to hear the liberal argument against it. Would it be based on a general opposition to the death penalty, or would it be an argument that voter fraud just isn’t that serious? 

    • #3
    • September 26, 2020, at 9:42 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  4. Rodin Member
    Rodin

    Just want to add this link to another Ricochet post: East Texas Indicts Several Democrats for Serious Election Fraud Felonies. One of the comments on that post is particularly on point:

    Bruce Caward (View Comment):

    Oh God oh God, he cries out yet again to the heavens. Surely there must be a way to standardize voting so that one US citizen of voting age can identify himself and cast one vote one time on voting day!

    With all our modern technology, how can this be difficult??

    If a plan were formulated and proposed, wouldn’t anyone who argued against it be demonstrating that they prefer the method(s) that allow massive cheating?

    Every time I see Dems going to ridiculous measures to generate “votes”, I’m reminded of the lines from Evita:

    How annoying that they have to fight elections for their cause

    The inconvenience, having to get a majority

    If normal methods of persuasion fail to win them applause

    there are other ways of establishing authority.

     

    • #4
    • September 26, 2020, at 9:42 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  5. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    I am a little bit optimistic. Was it over, when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No! It awakened a slumbering giant. I am hopeful that we Americans wake up (as opposed to get woke) and realize that we have to fight for freedom and equality and prosperity and the American Way. The garden needs tending and feel that people aware that work needs to be done.

     

     

    • #5
    • September 26, 2020, at 9:43 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  6. Rodin Member
    Rodin

    Bob Wainwright (View Comment):

    Making voter fraud a capital offense would help. I’d like to hear the liberal argument against it. Would it be based on a general opposition to the death penalty, or would it be an argument that voter fraud just isn’t that serious?

    I think (sadly) we’re all going to a get a hard lesson on the essential nature of voting integrity to our country. When government was small and our population small and distributed, corruption was reprehensible but for most a non-event. But with the growth of government, population and density, the consequences of corruption are far-reaching and ubiquitous.

     

    • #6
    • September 26, 2020, at 9:46 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  7. Rodin Member
    Rodin

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I am a little bit optimistic. Was it over, when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No! It awakened a slumbering giant. 

    If Hollywood is writing the script we are in trouble.

    • #7
    • September 26, 2020, at 9:48 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  8. kedavis Member

    Rodin (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I am a little bit optimistic. Was it over, when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No! It awakened a slumbering giant.

    If Hollywood is writing the script we are in trouble.

    I think it was Rob Long, but not sure if it was in GLoP or the “flagship” podcast, who told a story about I think it was an episode of The Bachelor or something, being “filmed” in Hawaii. There were military planes flying overhead making some noise. When (one of) the contestant(s) complained about it and wondered where it was coming from, he was told “Pearl Harbor.” The contestant looked surprised and said “That’s a real place? I thought it was just a movie!”

    • #8
    • September 26, 2020, at 11:39 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  9. Skyler Coolidge

    I’m convinced the purpose of the riots and hatred by the left is not to get Biden elected. That wouldn’t be beneficial to even them, until he is declared incompetent. The intent is to discredit the election and throw the nation into chaos. With no President acknowledged, we will have two people claiming the title and then what will we do? This is a potential disaster in the planning and is not a side effect. There are some who want this to happen and they are the ones in charge of the democrat party right now.

     

    • #9
    • September 26, 2020, at 5:02 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  10. kedavis Member

    Skyler (View Comment):

    I’m convinced the purpose of the riots and hatred by the left is not to get Biden elected. That wouldn’t be beneficial to even them, until he is declared incompetent. The intent is to discredit the election and throw the nation into chaos. With no President acknowledged, we will have two people claiming the title and then what will we do? This is a potential disaster in the planning and is not a side effect. There are some who want this to happen and they are the ones in charge of the democrat party right now.

     

    Certainly possible. I’m not sure if most of the left is bright enough to come up with that, but some of their “leaders” are.

    • #10
    • September 26, 2020, at 5:47 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. Skyler Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    I’m convinced the purpose of the riots and hatred by the left is not to get Biden elected. That wouldn’t be beneficial to even them, until he is declared incompetent. The intent is to discredit the election and throw the nation into chaos. With no President acknowledged, we will have two people claiming the title and then what will we do? This is a potential disaster in the planning and is not a side effect. There are some who want this to happen and they are the ones in charge of the democrat party right now.

     

    Certainly possible. I’m not sure if most of the left is bright enough to come up with that, but some of their “leaders” are.

    Hence the term, useful idiots. 

    • #11
    • September 26, 2020, at 5:52 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. Clifford A. Brown Contributor

    Rodin: You can’t vote yourself out of a mess if you can’t have confidence in the vote.

    Not quite so. As Hugh Hewitt wrote in 2004, after the 2000 hanging chad fiasco, If It’s Not Close, They Can’t Cheat. The short term requirement to save our constitutional republic is overwhelming turnout in every possible precinct, so that we are at or past 270 electoral votes the first evening. Get that and the whole scam falls apart as irrelevant. If irrelevant, then the rats start deserting the election rigging process as they start fearing prosecution by Trump’s DOJ in a second term.

    • #12
    • September 26, 2020, at 6:48 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  13. kedavis Member

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Rodin: You can’t vote yourself out of a mess if you can’t have confidence in the vote.

    Not quite so. As Hugh Hewitt wrote in 2004, after the 2000 hanging chad fiasco, If It’s Not Close, They Can’t Cheat. The short term requirement to save our constitutional republic is overwhelming turnout in every possible precinct, so that we are at or past 270 electoral votes the first evening. Get that and the whole scam falls apart as irrelevant. If irrelevant, then the rats start deserting the election rigging process as they start fearing prosecution by Trump’s DOJ in a second term.

    If the margin is seriously huge, then maybe. But we shouldn’t underestimate the ability of the supercharged democrat cheating machine, to flip even states that appeared solidly Trump.

    • #13
    • September 26, 2020, at 7:08 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  14. Rodin Member
    Rodin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Rodin: You can’t vote yourself out of a mess if you can’t have confidence in the vote.

    Not quite so. As Hugh Hewitt wrote in 2004, after the 2000 hanging chad fiasco, If It’s Not Close, They Can’t Cheat. The short term requirement to save our constitutional republic is overwhelming turnout in every possible precinct, so that we are at or past 270 electoral votes the first evening. Get that and the whole scam falls apart as irrelevant. If irrelevant, then the rats start deserting the election rigging process as they start fearing prosecution by Trump’s DOJ in a second term.

    If the margin is seriously huge, then maybe. But we shouldn’t underestimate the ability of the supercharged democrat cheating machine, to flip even states that appeared solidly Trump.

    What worries me is that Trump has a big vote lead November 3 but (as breathlessly reported by the media) the margin of the “win” in key states is less than half of the expected uncounted mail-in ballots. So the media is banging the “it’s not over” drum and the drip drip drip of the days following with litigation and fresh updates of ballot-harvesting steadily erode the lead. That is the Democrats expectation being set in the media currently. That, and the media will publicizing activities that Joe Biden is taking to assemble his transition team.

    • #14
    • September 26, 2020, at 8:04 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  15. formerlawprof Coolidge

    QUOTE from OP: “There may have been some nutters who thought the Russians fiddled with vote counts to put President Trump over the top, but that was never a serious theme of #Resistance. Instead, it was the belief that somehow the Russian masterminds had influenced voters to support Trump.”

    Very sad to have to say, @Rodin, that standard polling has shown for the whole Trump term that LOTS (and LOTS) of people believe that actual vote counts were jiggered by the Ruskies.

    You could look it up! (It is shockingly close to 50% among Dems, and NOT SMALL among GOP and Indie voters!))

    • #15
    • September 26, 2020, at 8:08 PM PDT
    • 1 like
    • This comment has been edited.
  16. kedavis Member

    Rodin (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Rodin: You can’t vote yourself out of a mess if you can’t have confidence in the vote.

    Not quite so. As Hugh Hewitt wrote in 2004, after the 2000 hanging chad fiasco, If It’s Not Close, They Can’t Cheat. The short term requirement to save our constitutional republic is overwhelming turnout in every possible precinct, so that we are at or past 270 electoral votes the first evening. Get that and the whole scam falls apart as irrelevant. If irrelevant, then the rats start deserting the election rigging process as they start fearing prosecution by Trump’s DOJ in a second term.

    If the margin is seriously huge, then maybe. But we shouldn’t underestimate the ability of the supercharged democrat cheating machine, to flip even states that appeared solidly Trump.

    What worries me is that Trump has a big vote lead November 3 but (as breathlessly reported by the media) the margin of the “win” in key states is less than half of the expected uncounted mail-in ballots. So the media is banging the “it’s not over” drum and the drip drip drip of the days following with litigation and fresh updates of ballot-harvesting steadily erode the lead. That is the Democrats expectation being set in the media currently. That, and the media will publicizing activities that Joe Biden Kamala Harris is taking to assemble his her transition team.

    There you go. :-)

    • #16
    • September 26, 2020, at 8:18 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  17. kedavis Member

    formerlawprof (View Comment):

    QUOTE from OP: “There may have been some nutters who thought the Russians fiddled with vote counts to put President Trump over the top, but that was never a serious theme of #Resistance. Instead, it was the belief that somehow the Russian masterminds had influenced voters to support Trump.”

    Very sad to have to say, @Rodin, that standard polling has shown for the whole Trump term that LOTS (and LOTS) of people believe that actual vote counts were jiggered by the Ruskies.

    You could look it up! (It is shockingly close to 50% among Dems, and NOT SMALL among GOP and Indie voters!))

    My own benighted mother believes things like the Greek columns at the Obama inauguration, the talk about ocean levels starting to subside, etc, were all somehow created by Trump or his subservient demons.

    Some of my neighbors in Phoenix believe that improving job numbers etc, are because Obama WAS president, and that any coming improvement is because Biden WILL BE president. (At least for a little while…)

    • #17
    • September 26, 2020, at 8:21 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  18. Rodin Member
    Rodin

    The cherry on top of comment #14 is that when the litigation is over the actual votes counted after November 3 is much smaller than what the media was reporting as outstanding mail-in ballots supporting the “it ain’t over” narrative. So a Trump win is tarred. 

    Or, the litigation doesn’t reduce the actual anticipated vote count and Biden wins. But Trump supporters are certain that ballot harvesting skulduggery was under way since the Democrats knew precisely the number of ballots needed to defeat Trump.

    So four things need to happen to avoid this:

    (1) There needs to be good reporting on how many outstanding votes are to be counted and where if not counted November 3.

    (2) There needs to be reasonable expectations set as to the likelihood that (regardless of for whom cast) a certain number of ballots will be determined by election officials to be spoilt or uncountable.

    (3) Trump’s lead on November 3 needs to be at least two-thirds of the expected outstanding net ballots uncounted. 

    (4) The Trump campaign has to broadcast a strong narrative creating the expectation that Biden cannot legitimately make up the difference and that all litigation and subsequent counts will not change the Electoral Votes as they stand on November 3.

     

    • #18
    • September 26, 2020, at 8:23 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  19. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    Rodin (View Comment):
    (2) There needs to be reasonable expectations set as to the likelihood that (regardless of for whom cast) a certain number of ballots will be determined by election officials to be spoilt or uncountable.

    That number might be 20%. People will freak out, if 20% of 50 million mail-in votes are tossed.

    • #19
    • September 26, 2020, at 10:12 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  20. kedavis Member

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    (2) There needs to be reasonable expectations set as to the likelihood that (regardless of for whom cast) a certain number of ballots will be determined by election officials to be spoilt or uncountable.

    That number might be 20%. People will freak out, if 20% of 50 million mail-in votes are tossed.

    It might be a bigger problem if it seems that most of the “spoilt or uncountable” ballots are/were for Trump.

    • #20
    • September 26, 2020, at 10:34 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  21. Stina Member

    formerlawprof (View Comment):

    QUOTE from OP: “There may have been some nutters who thought the Russians fiddled with vote counts to put President Trump over the top, but that was never a serious theme of #Resistance. Instead, it was the belief that somehow the Russian masterminds had influenced voters to support Trump.”

    Very sad to have to say, @Rodin, that standard polling has shown for the whole Trump term that LOTS (and LOTS) of people believe that actual vote counts were jiggered by the Ruskies.

    You could look it up! (It is shockingly close to 50% among Dems, and NOT SMALL among GOP and Indie voters!))

    And surveys also show that less than 50% of the population has accurate information, while most information that they are wrong about is spread by mainstream narratives.

    • #21
    • September 27, 2020, at 5:48 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  22. Old Bathos Moderator

    I expect that Trump will again get an electoral college win—I don’t see any large adverse trends in states he took before and BLM/Antifa is becoming a highly effective GOP GOTV movement everywhere.

    I also expect that the volume of utterly bogus ballots will be extremely high but largely occurring in pure blue states (CA in particular) so that Trump will again be a minority president, perhaps by an even greater margin.

    This will result in four years of BS about how every action by the federal government is “illegitimate” (including Trump’s next 2-3 SCOTUS picks). The post-election tantrums will be intense and sustained.

    Unless Trump uses those four years to build a powerful new centrist coalition of normals to include black and Hispanic “beneficiaries”/victims of lefty nonsense, these post-election tantrums will become a pretext to effectively kill any chance for a non-Soros-backed candidate to win an election at any level if and when the Dems return to power unchastised.

    • #22
    • September 27, 2020, at 6:55 AM PDT
    • 3 likes