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Civil Forfeiture Laws Are Wrong. Can We All Agree on That?
Another example of actions by the police that show a lack of Protect and Serve. No one should have their things seized when they are not convicted of a crime. No one should have to sue to get their car back.
I especially like the bit where the police ask if the car is paid off. Really telling.
I want to support the police, but I don’t support thieves any more than I support looters.
Published in General
Well, death is worse by murder than dying by an accident. And theft is worse when it’s done by your protectors.
Theoretically at least there was a time when police would try to find criminals and restore your property. Now they are the thieves taking your property. I’m trying to figure that one out.
Your concern/worry about police vs “actual criminals” sounds like these:
Similarly, death by accident is far more likely than death by murder.
Unless maybe if you’re a black person in Chicago or New York City etc.
Oh, so your acceptance of police stealing your property, is basically bribing them to do it gingerly, and infrequently, and not killing you after stealing your stuff. That’s the abomination of the corruption of law enforcement.
Unless you were driving through Tenaha, TX during the early 2000s.
But police stealing from the innocent — because they can — is a worse crime because they do it under the cover of wearing the uniform. It is a perversion of law and justice.
I don’t really see how American police officers who are enthused about keeping other people’s properties due to a law that should not be on the books can be considered “good guys.” They can be people you like who are enthused about using property that should not be theirs to use, but the idea they are good guys is not apparent to me.
After all, a few decades ago, such guys would be called thieves.
I suspect there were still more victims of burglary, etc, in Tenaha, TX, during the early 2000s, than victims of police. They just didn’t get as much publicity.
I’m not arguing that it isn’t worse. But it’s FAR LESS LIKELY. So the “best” reason to not carry a lot of cash around, is NOT that the POLICE might take it from you, but that SOME REGULAR CRIMINAL will. Or that if you crash and/or your car burns – maybe because of a fuel leak, who knows – the cash becomes worthless ash, that will not be replaced.
Given the lack of ethics of their police, the burglaries may well have been done by the cops, too.
I’m also reminded of a neighbor I used to have, who would lock his front door deadbolt and the entrance gate to his patio, even when going to the mailboxes to check his mail. He also had one of those little slide-bolt lock things, clearly visible at the top of the gate, and he locked that too. As if, some criminal might run up and pick the lock on his gate or drill it out or whatever, in the 30 seconds it took him to check the mail, but that little slide-bolt lock would stop them cold.
Re.
Dick.
You.
Luss.
When people do not have the right to have property as it can be stolen out from under them by corrupt police, that is morally wrong and against the Constitution. There are corrupt police, Jerry. Maybe your suburban lifestyle doesn’t force you to have to think about such concepts, but it is very real for many people in bad neighborhoods.
Before we moved to Lake County, my spouse was a social worker in Marin County Calif. This is a very affluent area, yet there were some bad cops who found out that it was rather easy to come by “free spending money.”
All that was necessary for that free money to come to them was to stop someone they knew was out on parole from a prior minor drug charge, and stop them and threaten to frisk them. That usually meant the person being stopped offered them all the money they had on their person. Usually under 20 bucks, and often less. But it is a mind set that came about in part due to all the various ways police departments themselves came to rely on the forfeiture laws to bring in expensive toys.
San Rafael was also an area where the local police department could not be bothered to take a homeowner’s theft report, even when the homeowner knew who the thief was and could identify that perp. Plus the homeowner had witnesses to the theft. “Too much paperwork,” said the cops. But let some teens from Oakland steal the same amount of goods from Nordstrom’s and there would be a two car cop chase as “property is important.” If some innocent bystander were to get run over, I guess the surviving family members could at least content themselves with the fact that Nordstrom’s got their stuff back.
I am sorry that BLM and other radicals have muddied the discussion, but it is important to understand that in many ways the police do need reforming. Only reform must be process driven and not mob driven.
So the more the merrier! Come on, Policemen, this is a competition!
You don’t know what a bank bail-in is, do you?
Yes, you never know when the police will come up to do a wellness check. Must be prepared. But seriously, I lock my front gate just to drive to the post office.
You see there are criminals, murderers, and corrupt police. And then there are law abiding corrupt police. I’d rather take my chances with an armed burglar — he’s at least an up-front thief. And this gets us into no-knock raids, but I’ve resisted going there and won’t now. :)
They are guys I have worked with on scene. Hard working, community minded guys. Remember, the entire problem is that it’s legal, even though it’s odious to you and me. These are guys who have been told for years that this is just another tool in their tool box, and the courts have backed them up. I’m sure applying it to the local drug dealer made good sense to them. The problem can’t be fixed unless legislators or courts act to curtail the practice. “Should not be on the books” is the operative phrase. Someone thought this stuff up and legislators passed it.
Actually, it was this support that made me first think Trump made a mistake (or wasn’t serious about anything) when he hired Jeff Sessions and in his first month Sessions answered that this practice would continue.
Several years ago I read about a motel that was confiscated by a police department because some prostitutes were doing business there. They weren’t employed by the motel and the motel wasn’t getting a cut of their business. But since crime was taking place there, the motel was seized. The funny thing is that there were a number of other motels in this town that also had prostitutes plying their trade there. What made the one seized motel unique was that there were no loans against it.
So there is moral and there is legal, and like Bob Dylan once sang in the song “Pretty Boy Floyd”
You say that I’m an outlaw
You say that I’m a thief
Well, here’s a Christmas dinner
For the families on relief
Well, it’s through this world I’ve rambled
I’ve seen lots of funny men
Some will rob you with a six-gun
And some with a fountain pen
Well, it’s through this world you ramble
It’s through this world you roam
You won’t never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home
I don’t know that I find the fact that a law is on the books that comforting an idea.
Many questionable laws are on the books, but it is so much nicer to live among people who remember the Ten Commandments and have knowledge of the Constitution, and just as importantly, an understanding that our major document outlining our social contract needs respect.
What is your point?
NOT what anyone is saying.
but oh well, you are not going to get that point
They are thieves.
BINGO!
I think we are going around about this, but we understand each other’s points. I say that it is abominable that police get to say, “Hey, look at all this money! It must be criminal money! I’ll take that!” And you say that it’s unlikely, and it’s on the citizen if he doesn’t protect his own money using banks. These are just completely different ways of thinking.
My answer: Trust the banks, a little; trust a large safe in your home, a little; don’t flash cash; and repeal the laws that allow police to take your stuff on a whim to pad their own salaries.
Yes