Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Mask Theater

 

Today I had to cancel a scheduled medical procedure because I would not wear a mask.

I had no interest in causing a scene in the office (or in driving an hour to the office only to be turned away) so I called in advance and told them I would not be wearing a mask. The receptionist was polite and checked with my primary care provider, who is a Nurse Practitioner and was going to perform the procedure in the office. It was a minor procedure (removing a small cyst on my head that has been there for over ten years, which has not ever grown). The receptionist reported that the NP said I didn’t have to wear a mask in the office with her while she did the procedure, but that I would have to wear a mask in the waiting room and the hallways. So I cancelled the appointment.

I told the receptionist that if the NP thought the procedure was urgent — which was not my impression from the last time I had spoken to her — that she would have to grant me a medical exception to wearing a mask. The exception being, I’m not going to wear a mask. So if she wants me to have the procedure, then it’s medically necessary for me to not wear a mask in the office.

The backdrop of this is that I had my annual checkup with her a month ago and did not wear a mask, despite a sign on the front door that stated masks were required. No one asked me to wear a mask — not any of the receptionists, the lower-level nurses, or my NP herself. During the check up, she checked my cyst, saw that it hadn’t grown, but said if I wanted that she could remove it, so I said sure.

However, since then, the governor of New Hampshire, the ironically dubbed “Live Free or Die” state, issued an emergency order for a mask mandate for any place, public or private, where more than 100 people are at the same time. I thought maybe that the doctor’s office, between staff and patients, might meet the threshold. The governor’s order includes fines for everyone involved and also authorizes law enforcement to “enter private property…including without the consent of the owners” to enforce his dictates. Gov. Chris Sununu is reportedly a Republican, and I may even have voted for him twice, but only because his opponents were insane Leftists. I’m beginning to wonder what the differences are between him and a Democrat, though.

Meanwhile there are currently 12 people hospitalized in our entire state (population 1.3 million) with symptoms of COVID-19, and we have the 5th lowest infection rate (518 per 100,000 population) of all the states. This with no state mask mandate of any kind until the aforementioned order last week. To be clear, I see lots of people wearing masks in stores. That is, lots of people wearing masks incorrectly — under their nose, pulling them down to talk, over giant beards, etc. I saw one women pull into the parking lot at the grocery store, get out, open her trunk, and grab a mask from the floor of her trunk, and put it on. Presumably she takes her trash to the dump in the trunk of her car, as well. (For those of you who are city dwellers — those of us who live in the country take our own trash to the dump.)

So anyway, that’s how I came to have an appointment today and why I called in advance instead of just showing up again. I tried to be as calm and firm as possible. The receptionist told me that the mask was to protect the other patients. I told her I wasn’t interested in debating the issue and that I don’t care about the other patients. This of course is something you’re not supposed to say, but it has the benefit of being true. I have no responsibility for the health of people that I have never met.

So I cancelled the appointment. In the end, mask theater is more important than medical procedures.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Get your first month free.

There are 131 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Weeping Member

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    This thing will be done and over with in the US before October, and the bedwetters will still be demanding that we wear masks. If not for this, then for the flu… after all, isn’t 20,000-50,000 deaths each winter justification enough for the inconvenience of everyone wearing masks for the rest of our miserable lives??

    This is a huge reason why I oppose masks. Unlike Max, I’ll wear one – for now. But like him, I definitely oppose them. Why? Because it’s way too easy to slide from “wear it for COVID’s sake” into “wear it for the flu’s sake” and then on to “wear it for the cold’s sake” and then …. In other words, it’s way too easy for it to never end – and I don’t want to spend the rest of my life wearing a mask whenever I’m out and about. I just don’t.

    ******************************************

    PHenry (View Comment):
    But the sight of someone’s uncovered face has become a matter of extreme stress for some, so I would rather just let them have their meaningless sense of security.

    And this is why I choose to wear one at the moment. The events are so fresh and people are so scared (thanks, media) that I don’t mind trying to put their mind at ease. Can’t say I’ll feel the same come Christmas, though, if the hysteria is still high.

    I have already been a couple Webex where people in the meeting indicated that now they are aware of how much germs we all produce that maybe we need mandatory mask laws from this point forward. I can see the government doing it in the name of health.

    Unfortunately, so can I. Sigh.

    • #61
    • August 24, 2020, at 9:16 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  2. Weeping Member

    Roderic (View Comment):
    Many health care providers who worked with COVID patients have died from the infections they got, often enough from patients who didn’t know they were infected.

    What are “many”, and how do we know they were infected by patients they treated? Is it not possible they got if from somewhere else?

    • #62
    • August 24, 2020, at 9:19 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  3. Clifford A. Brown Contributor

    Weeping (View Comment):
    nto “wear it for the flu’s sake” and then on to “wear it for the cold’s sake” and then …. In other words, it’s way too easy for it to never end – and I don’t want to spend the rest of my life wearing a mask whenever I’m out and about. I just don’t.

    Read back through Fauci and the Great Scarfini’s early musings and you will find them contemplating exactly this. The “flu shots” signs are already up outside the neighborhood drug store. Our expert lords and ladies have already established that the steps to “slow the spread” are the steps to reduce the number of reported flu cases this season. 

    If Trump is not reelected, you have called the exact short term future.

    • #63
    • August 25, 2020, at 12:25 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  4. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailorJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Max Ledoux: Meanwhile there are currently 12 people hospitalized in our entire state (population 1.3 million) with symptoms of COVID-19, and we have the 5th lowest infection rate (518 per 100,000 population) of all the states.

    Kentucky’s Covid death rate has dropped below 2% (divide the confirmed cases by deaths) yet the ‘news’ folks in collaboration with certain bureaucrats have absolutely panicked normally sensible people into believing this virus is so deadly that any and all measures are essential. Our over reaction is causing much more harm that the disease has or will. That’s not to say that Covid is fun though for many it is unsymptomatic meaning you don’t even notice it. We could protect the vulnerable without wrecking businesses, killing jobs and debasing the currency with massive injections of currency made of thin air but that would not increase the hold our Betters have over our lives. Between that and pure politics we are paying a heavy and unnecessary price for little or no gain.
    I’ll wear the freaking mask in public for whatever little good it may do but these shutdowns and bailouts are causing great and lasting harm as will the galloping willingness of formerly independent minded people to be herded along by ‘experts’.

    • #64
    • August 25, 2020, at 3:29 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  5. Kozak Member
    KozakJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):
    You have your freedom to use your best judgement about your life — but don’t impose your judgement on others. If others don’t want to interact with you if you are not wearing a mask, respect that. They may be wrong or over worried, but that is indeed their right.

    They already proved that they don’t actually care if I show up without a mask. They probably wouldn’t have said anything this time either. My mistake was to bring it up because I was concerned I might expose them to fines from the state.

     They were willing to compromise with your mask fetish to accommodate you during the procedure.

    But you couldn’t even cooperate in common areas where you were in contact with other patients.

     

    • #65
    • August 25, 2020, at 3:49 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  6. Kozak Member
    KozakJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    This is a ridiculous comparison. First, there are not 180,00o dead from covid. I’d give you maybe 100,000, but that seems generous. Accurate reporting would likely cut those numbers in half.

    Nonsense.

    You don’t know what you are talking about.

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Second, 6 months of a seasonal “wave” is not the same as implied… by all of these people who pretend that there isn’t a wave but a plateau. At the end of the day, it really isn’t any different from the same thing that we experience virtually every year – sometimes better, sometimes worse.

    I’ve been in medicine over 30 years and never seen something like this. Never.

     

    The fact is the first US death from Covid was on feb 29. Less than 6 months later we stand at 180,000.

    Those are cold hard facts.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about, either. Do not pretend that your experience means more than it does. That level of arrogance is unscientific. I’m glad you’re not my doctor.

     

    Yeah those are the facts.

     

    I’m glad you aren’t my patient. So we are even.

    • #66
    • August 25, 2020, at 3:55 AM PDT
    • Like
  7. Kozak Member
    KozakJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sorry. You come to see me at the clinic, you wear or mask or you can seek care elsewhere.

    I’ve got a life and a family and I’m not willing to increase my risk any higher.

    I see about 5-10 Covid positive patients a shift. None with a known diagnosis.

    I must be missing something here. If they don’t have a diagnosis, how do you know they have it?

    We are the ones who diagnose them. 

    We see about 50 patients a day for Covid testing.

    • #67
    • August 25, 2020, at 3:56 AM PDT
    • Like
  8. Kozak Member
    KozakJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sorry. You come to see me at the clinic, you wear or mask or you can seek care elsewhere.

    I’ve got a life and a family and I’m not willing to increase my risk any higher.

    I see about 5-10 Covid positive patients a shift. None with a known diagnosis.

    I must be missing something here. If they don’t have a diagnosis, how do you know they have it?

    Can’t have it both ways. If that many people have it, it’s less deadly than the flu… Far less. If it’s more deadly, those people don’t have it.

    Either way, the hysteria is way out of line with the facts.

    It is not “less deadly than the flu”. Thats not true. But keep on repeating that stupid talking point.

    • #68
    • August 25, 2020, at 3:57 AM PDT
    • Like
  9. Concretevol Thatcher

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sorry. You come to see me at the clinic, you wear or mask or you can seek care elsewhere.

    I’ve got a life and a family and I’m not willing to increase my risk any higher.

    I see about 5-10 Covid positive patients a shift. None with a known diagnosis.

    I am of the opinion that everyone has free choice here. Max was right not to go there and cause a scene about it, the doctor’s office is perfectly within their rights to ask people to wear them. He didn’t have to go. Same goes for a store or restaurant. When a restaurant that I want to go to asks me to wear a mask while walking to my table (seems very silly to me) I comply because IT IS THEIR RESTAURANT. I don’t have to go there if I don’t want to do it. Then again I also think restaurants should be able to decide for themselves about smoking etc.. as well. 

    • #69
    • August 25, 2020, at 5:22 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  10. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I have already been a couple Webex where people in the meeting indicated that now they are aware of how much germs we all produce that maybe we need mandatory mask laws from this point forward. I can see the government doing it in the name of health.

    FJ/JG,

    Extreme Germaphobes were classified as suffering from obsessive/compulsive disorder, you know, mentally ill. I don’t see any reason why this diagnosis should be abandoned now. This is the result of having a horse’s ass like Fauci waffling away at the top for 6 months. Now paranoia is taken seriously.

    Continued human existence will not be feasible if this kind of hysteria is allowed to hamstring society. Get rid of captain lame, Fauci, now. Put in Atlas or somebody equally as sane.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #70
    • August 25, 2020, at 7:14 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. Max Ledoux Admin
    Max Ledoux

    Roderic (View Comment):

    To expect health care providers to eat the risk of exposure caused by your own stubborn ignorance is really over the line.

     

    I think you missed the part where the receptionist told me that I didn’t have to wear a mask with my NP (and the fact that a month ago I didn’t wear a mask at all in the office or with my NP), but only in the hallway to perform for other patients.

    My NP is not worried about exposure, as demonstrated through her actions. It’s just theater.

    • #71
    • August 25, 2020, at 7:47 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  12. Max Ledoux Admin
    Max Ledoux

    Kozak (View Comment):
     They were willing to compromise with your mask fetish to accommodate you during the procedure.

    You don’t get to say that I have a mask fetish, Kozak. Not wearing a mask is normal. Wearing a mask is abnormal. 

    To say that doing something normal is a fetish is absurd. 

    • #72
    • August 25, 2020, at 7:50 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  13. Max Ledoux Admin
    Max Ledoux

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Yeah those are the facts.

     

    I’m glad you aren’t my patient. So we are even.

    I’m not sure how that chart is considered useful. Not a single one of those numbers is COVID by itself. (“All deaths involving” is not “All death caused by” Covid.)

    • #73
    • August 25, 2020, at 7:55 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  14. Max Ledoux Admin
    Max Ledoux

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sorry. You come to see me at the clinic, you wear or mask or you can seek care elsewhere.

    I’ve got a life and a family and I’m not willing to increase my risk any higher.

    I see about 5-10 Covid positive patients a shift. None with a known diagnosis.

    I am of the opinion that everyone has free choice here. Max was right not to go there and cause a scene about it, the doctor’s office is perfectly within their rights to ask people to wear them. He didn’t have to go. Same goes for a store or restaurant. When a restaurant that I want to go to asks me to wear a mask while walking to my table (seems very silly to me) I comply because IT IS THEIR RESTAURANT. I don’t have to go there if I don’t want to do it. Then again I also think restaurants should be able to decide for themselves about smoking etc.. as well.

    Oh, but they can’t decide about smoking.

    • #74
    • August 25, 2020, at 7:56 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  15. ToryWarWriter Thatcher

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Yeah those are the facts.

     

    I’m glad you aren’t my patient. So we are even.

    I’m not sure how that chart is considered useful. Not a single one of those numbers is COVID by itself. (“All deaths involving” is not “All death caused by” Covid.)

    I cant remember the name of that women doctor who is up there with Fauci, but I remember her stating that as high as 30 percent of all the US Deaths reported as covid are miscounted.

    The UK government was forced this month to revise there numbers down by ten percent. 

    Two facts about the UK I found interesting. They are currently on track to have more deaths from preventable causes. Basically people who couldnt go to the doctor normally during the shut down, than covid deaths, especially with the revised numbers its now standing at 42k dead.

    Also that in 2018, they had a bad flu season that killed 50000 people above the normal flu season expected losses. They didnt shut down the country in 2018.

    To me the mask mandate is all part of mission creep. Why the USA is still in Afghanistan after 20 years. The mission to drive out Al-Queada and get Osama, has changed into a never ending war that will never go away. Event the soviets had the sense to get out, but I digress.

    Look if a private sector business asks you to wear a mask you should do it. Its there business. What your problem is with your idiotic Governor. And the solution is to get rid of him. Or make him a face of ridicule. 

    Peter Hitchens in the UK is doing great work exposing his government as grossly incompetent in handling the crisis.

    He goes around wearing a WW2 gasmask. I saw soviet era chemical gear available on Amazon for 65 dollars. I suggest you wear that to get your point across.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Original-Civilian-Protective-Activated-Charcoal/dp/B086JC5N8W/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3K3UOJT8BSOPM&dchild=1&keywords=soviet+gas+mask+with+filter&qid=1598368634&sprefix=soviet++gas+mask%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1

    • #75
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:17 AM PDT
    • Like
  16. Weeping Member

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sorry. You come to see me at the clinic, you wear or mask or you can seek care elsewhere.

    I’ve got a life and a family and I’m not willing to increase my risk any higher.

    I see about 5-10 Covid positive patients a shift. None with a known diagnosis.

    I must be missing something here. If they don’t have a diagnosis, how do you know they have it?

    We are the ones who diagnose them.

    We see about 50 patients a day for Covid testing.

    OK. That’s the missing piece of the puzzle. Thanks for taking the time to clear that up. :)

    • #76
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:24 AM PDT
    • Like
    • This comment has been edited.
  17. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Yeah those are the facts.

     

    I’m glad you aren’t my patient. So we are even.

    I’m not sure how that chart is considered useful. Not a single one of those numbers is COVID by itself. (“All deaths involving” is not “All death caused by” Covid.)

    Max,

    Isn’t it odd that the average age of COVID deaths is higher than the average age of deaths in the general population? Could COVID be prolonging life!? Well, something is off. But, hey Max, all Masks aren’t bad. Even a little Mask theater can be entertaining.

    I apologize in advance for this.

    Now I apologize in arrears for this.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #77
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:27 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  18. Hammer, The Member

    Roderic (View Comment):

    The doctor isn’t expected to have sex with his patients, and universal precautions cover the rest of the exposure risk where HIV is concerned.

    With rare exception, requiring patients to wear masks is perfectly reasonable in these times. Wearing a mask does reduce the risk of exposure of COVID-19 to others. Many health care providers who worked with COVID patients have died from the infections they got, often enough from patients who didn’t know they were infected.

    To expect health care providers to eat the risk of exposure caused by your own stubborn ignorance is really over the line.

    Again, you are making assumptions. If a doctor knows that you are sick with a contagious disease, that doctor will surely take precautions. This happens every day with TB patients… doctors practically work in self-contained breathing suits. Risk abatement is obviously reasonable, and nobody would argue with that. But you’re stealing a base, because we’re not talking about a sick person who is contagious. We are talking about a situation where people are asking everyone to pretend that they are sick just in case they might somehow be contagious with an illness they don’t know they have. You cannot assume any of those things to actually be true (a. that they’re sick, b. that they’re contagious, c. that these measures will do anything).

    You make several claims that simply aren’t true.

    1. “wearing a mask does reduce the risk of exposure of cv19 to others.” You don’t know that. You do know that PPE is effective when someone is sick and contagious. There is very little evidence to suggest that having everyone wear masks will do the same thing, and plenty of evidence to suggest that it will not.
    2. “many health care providers who worked with cv patients have died from infectionss they got, often enough from patients who didn’t know they were infected.” ?!?! Are you prepared to publish that sort of nonsense? So, health care workers, who are primarily exposed to sympotomatic sick people, and a lot of them, get sick and die… I’m with you there. But now you’re saying that in spite of this exposure, you can claim that many of these workers have died because they got sick from people who didn’t know they were sick? That is an absolutely ridiculous claim on its face. We have every reason in the world to believe that the exact opposite is true.
    3. So no, it’s not “stubborn arrogance,” it is common sense. I have dealt with more health-care workers who think the extra PPE requirements are idiotic… and those same workers would take pretty serious precautions in dealing with someone who has a 104 fever and is coughing. This isn’t just common sense, it is widely accepted practice for quite some time… and it is supported by actual evidence.

     

    • #78
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:30 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  19. Suspira Member

    I really don’t get the emotion behind the anti-mask position. And it’s a bad look for conservatives as we head into an election.

    • #79
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:32 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  20. Hammer, The Member

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    This is a ridiculous comparison. First, there are not 180,00o dead from covid. I’d give you maybe 100,000, but that seems generous. Accurate reporting would likely cut those numbers in half.

    Nonsense.

    You don’t know what you are talking about.

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Second, 6 months of a seasonal “wave” is not the same as implied… by all of these people who pretend that there isn’t a wave but a plateau. At the end of the day, it really isn’t any different from the same thing that we experience virtually every year – sometimes better, sometimes worse.

    I’ve been in medicine over 30 years and never seen something like this. Never.

     

    The fact is the first US death from Covid was on feb 29. Less than 6 months later we stand at 180,000.

    Those are cold hard facts.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about, either. Do not pretend that your experience means more than it does. That level of arrogance is unscientific. I’m glad you’re not my doctor.

     

    Yeah those are the facts.

     

    I’m glad you aren’t my patient. So we are even.

    Yes, Kozak, I am capable of reading worldometers. Funny thing about that… in the UK, official death rates had to be cut nearly in half, because they were following WHO recommended policies and counting deaths as follows: If you test positive for CV19, whether sick or not, and then you subsequently die, you are a covid death.

    Is that how you fill out death certificates? Test positive for strep throat a year ago and then die in a car accident, yep… died of strep.

    That is why I said that, while the “official” numbers, which I acknowledged, and which you so helpfully copied and pasted here, say upwards of 180,000 … I’ll give you 100,000. It is likely far less than that.

    • #80
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:34 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  21. Hammer, The Member

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sorry. You come to see me at the clinic, you wear or mask or you can seek care elsewhere.

    I’ve got a life and a family and I’m not willing to increase my risk any higher.

    I see about 5-10 Covid positive patients a shift. None with a known diagnosis.

    I must be missing something here. If they don’t have a diagnosis, how do you know they have it?

    Can’t have it both ways. If that many people have it, it’s less deadly than the flu… Far less. If it’s more deadly, those people don’t have it.

    Either way, the hysteria is way out of line with the facts.

    It is not “less deadly than the flu”. Thats not true. But keep on repeating that stupid talking point.

    Kindly go back and read what I said. If that many people have it, it is less deadly than the flu. It is very, very likely that we are going to discover this to be the case… and you’ll be left scratching your head. And then you’ll figure it out.

    Though, even misreading it as you did, it’s still true… unless you simply cannot read numbers. If you are under 70, Covid is less deadly than the flu. That is a simple fact. If you are under 20, it is significantly less deadly than the flu.

    • #81
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:37 AM PDT
    • Like
  22. RufusRJones Member

    Suspira (View Comment):

    I really don’t get the emotion behind the anti-mask position. And it’s a bad look for conservatives as we head into an election.

    The politicians that are forcing this down our throat need to talk about its actual efficacy as a public health intervention. None of them have done it. I get why you need good masks for extended time in close quarters, but beyond that I don’t buy it. None of those guys can give a persuasive pitch for it. I would love to see just one state attempt to legislate it. Full public vetting.

    • #82
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:40 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  23. Bob Wainwright Member

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):
    It has very little to do with science, or prevention. It has to do with compliance.

    Yes. And I will not comply.

    PHenry (View Comment):
    I don’t have any faith that my mask is doing anything to prevent me getting the china lung rot. But I wear it because, what the heck.

    Because theater. It’s OK, I’m not condemning you. You can do whatever. And please don’t take my statement about compliance as a dig at you either.

    I am only stating my personal conviction: I will not wear a mask at any point for any reason and no one can make me.

    Max, aren’t you afraid you’re going to jinx yourself with talk like that? Haven’t you seen the headlines about people who scoffed at the virus and then got it?

    • #83
    • August 25, 2020, at 8:47 AM PDT
    • Like
  24. PHenry Member

    Trump at a news conference last week gave a stat that I find interesting. He said that around 2.7% of all COVID related deaths were people 44 and under.

    Then he pointed out that some colleges had reopened, experienced a high number of positive tests, so closed up again, sending the younger, very low risk students back home to possibly infect their older, more vulnerable family members.

    With so low a mortality risk for under 44, would not the world, and those at higher risk, be far better off if the high risk people quarantined themselves, and the low risk people went ahead and let the virus take its course? Would it not save more lives if the young were to have big ‘covid’ parties and infect each other to build the herd immunity quickly? (When I was a young parent we did that with Chicken Pox for our kids, as they were far safer to get it young than to avoid it and chance infection later in life, when it was far more dangerous.)

    Like mask mandates, quarantining the heathy is illogical. It only ‘flattens the curve’, in other words, stretches out the crisis.

    I fear that has been the goal all along. Not saving lives, but creating panic, chaos, and economic destruction.

    • #84
    • August 25, 2020, at 9:02 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  25. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnellJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Max, I get the annoyance about wearing a mask, about mandates and loss of independence.

    But is it really that annoying to wear a mask to make others feel comfortable? It seems like a very minor thing to be so up in arms over, especially in a doctors office environment, where sick people are more likely to be?

    I don’t have any faith that my mask is doing anything to prevent me getting the china lung rot. But I wear it because, what the heck.

    Exactly. I have great sympathy for medical workers and store personnel who make face-to-face contact with multiple strangers every day, not to mention the sheer discomfort and inconvenience of wearing that darn mask eight hours a day. So, I wear a mask indoors as a show of sympathy and respect for others. 

    I don’t feel any great need to display my independence in this issue by defying official policy on this issue. I’ll wait for a bigger issue to show my defiance.

    • #85
    • August 25, 2020, at 9:03 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  26. Buckpasser Member
    BuckpasserJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    It sounds like we have to wear masks forever. People will die from COVID even with a vaccine, just like people die from the flu even with a vaccine. We see daily statistics on COVID yet no stats day today for anything else. Masks are mandatory until there are no more deaths from anything,

    • #86
    • August 25, 2020, at 9:08 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. D.A. Venters Member

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

     

    You make several claims that simply aren’t true.

    1. “wearing a mask does reduce the risk of exposure of cv19 to others.” You don’t know that. You do know that PPE is effective when someone is sick and contagious. There is very little evidence to suggest that having everyone wear masks will do the same thing, and plenty of evidence to suggest that it will not.

    I don’t follow this point. You concede that PPE is effective when someone is contagious. Masks being a significant aspect of PPE, particularly when dealing with a virus expelled through the mouth and nose, I think you would have to concede then that masks are effective when someone is contagious. By “effective,” I only mean that they make some difference, not that they guarantee anything. And, if the virus is indeed passed by an infected person expelling droplets carrying the virus into the air, how could masks not be at least somewhat effective? 

    If it is further true that a person can be contagious and not know it (which certainly seems to be the case given how quickly the virus spread undetected), doesn’t it logically follow that “having everyone wear masks” will reduce the spread, at least a little bit?

     

     

    • #87
    • August 25, 2020, at 10:15 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  28. RufusRJones Member

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1281600911006142464.html 

     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ 

     

    https://uncoverdc.com/2020/07/15/a-scientific-look-at-the-mask-fallacy-and-why-were-told-to-wear-them/ 

     

    https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1280978585273196544 

     

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data 

     

    https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/07/08/enough-with-the-mask-bs/

    https://fee.org/articles/europes-top-health-officials-say-masks-arent-helpful-in-beating-covid-19/ 

    https://www.naturalblaze.com/2020/07/physician-and-medical-journal-editor-healthy-people-should-not-wear-face-masks.html 

    • #88
    • August 25, 2020, at 10:33 AM PDT
    • Like
  29. RufusRJones Member

    I listen pretty closely to the Dan Proft podcast. It’s actually a radio show on Salem so he has producers and all kinds of guests. He’s extremely anti-mask and anti-lockdown. He had a doctor on recently that was pretty hostile to his views and I noticed that the doctor didn’t say one scientific fact about the efficacy of masks as a public health intervention. Proft has data almost every other week about non-efficacy masks for changing the r0. 

    • #89
    • August 25, 2020, at 10:44 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  30. RufusRJones Member

     

     

     

    • #90
    • August 25, 2020, at 10:50 AM PDT
    • 2 likes