Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. The War of All Against All…

 

…or How the Governments Multiplied Their Power by Destroying the US Economy to Fight the Wuhan Coronavirus

The United States has seen epidemics of new and old diseases many times in the past. The so-called Spanish Flu infected 500 Million people worldwide between 1918 and 1920, claiming between 17 and 50 million lives (figures vary, because governments around the world censored their information reaching the public). About 105 million people were infected in the United States, with 500,000-850,000 deaths.

In 2009, the Swine Flu Pandemic infected 700 Million to 1.8 Billion people worldwide, resulting in about 250,000 deaths. The US had about 12,000 deaths from this flu.

In neither of the above pandemics did the United States federal government, and state and local governments nearly completely shut down their economies to fight the pandemic flu. Travel restrictions were instituted, and the population was advised to stay home if ill, wear masks in public, and avoid large gatherings.

It is estimated that about 45,000 people die of influenza and its complications in the United States each year. Flu Season is prepared for regularly, the population (especially the elderly) is urged to get their “flu shot” each year, and life goes on. Symphony concerts, football games, and rock concerts are held everywhere during flu season, and life goes on. Thousands die of flu every year, and the so-called Press pays little attention.

This time, and this Wuhan Coronavirus, are different. The world watched, and took notice, in January when news came of a contagious, deadly new virus in Wuhan, Hubei Province, China. It was supposed to have originated in a Chinese “Wet Market”, where exotic animals are sold, alive and dead, for food and medicine. There were rumors of medical personnel in China dying of this virus. Rumors also flew about the Chinese Communist Party suppressing news of the virus, and “disappearing” doctors who tried to warn the wider world about it.

Soon, those rumors were confirmed to be true, and the rest of the world began to take serious notice. The virus spread within Wuhan and its surrounding territory, the the story of brave Ophthalmologist Li Wenliang, who tried to warn the world about this new virus and was subsequently silenced by the Communist Party, and died of the virus. Stories emerged about heavy-handed Chinese methods of trying to contain the virus, including welding apartment doors shut so inhabitants could not go out (stories and pictures exist of this).

It took the UN Agency, the World Health Organization until March to declare a pandemic existed, and that organization and its Director General did their best to minimize the effects, and play down the role of the Chinese Communist Party. Over the weeks, it came out that the WHO has been under the thumb of the Chinese Communist Party for years.

Europe and Asia suffered the most, and the news was filled with stories of how hospitals in Italy and elsewhere were overwhelmed with COVID patients. [editorial comment: I wonder why that name just grates on me? Every time I hear it, I cringe]. The first “country lockdowns” were seen in Italy, with everyone required to remain in their homes, not leaving except for “essential” activities like food-shopping; stores and factories shuttered; travel forbidden. You may want to check out this story of how Chinese companies are buying up Italian ones-no wonder Italy was so badly affected. Soon many countries were locking down their economies and closing their borders.

In the US, President Donald Trump instituted a ban on travel from China in January, and of course, it set off the wailing dogs of the Leftist Press, bemoaning the travel ban as discriminatory and unnecessary. The first case of the virus was actually found not so very far from where I live in Washington State; the man, who had traveled from Wuhan, China, before the ban, recovered and returned home. And also in our area, a nursing home in Kirkland was the first incidence of virus spread among residents of a long-term-care facility. The disease has been found to disproportionately affect the very elderly, especially in congregate-care settings. There were many deaths.

In February, the first state-wide lockdowns started. The San Francisco Bay Area was almost totally locked down, businesses closed, travel forbidden, and the people confined to their homes, supposedly to “flatten the curve”, and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Only “essential” businesses were still permitted to operate, but the definition of “essential” varied by State, and by locality. The lockdowns were supposed to be only short-term until the hospitals had time to increase capacity. The Navy sent two hospital ships to New York and San Francisco, so care for non-virus patients so the hospitals could concentrate on virus patients. Neither ship saw much use, and they were withdrawn.

Schools and colleges closed, and students were sent home. K-12 students were advised to engage in “distance-learning”, but many school districts had no experience with this, and teachers had no idea how to do it, so most students got little education at the end of the year. Parents who lost their own jobs were now forced to stay home with their kids. Parents who could work from home discovered that they now had two jobs-their own, and “school teacher” for their kids.

One feature of the anti-virus lockdowns was the requirement that hospitals stop all “non-essential” care; non-essential included joint-replacement surgeries, cancer surgeries, diagnostic radiology services, and all other non-emergency care. These so-called elective procedures are how most hospitals make their money, and when they were no longer allowed to do them, their revenue suffered. Many hospitals laid off doctors, nurses, and other personnel in the midst of a pandemic! And some hospitals were forced to close their doors, reducing the total quantity of care for many communities. Numerous people, afraid to go to hospital emergency rooms, died at home of heart attacks and strokes that might have been treated if they had called for help. How many more cases of cancer will grow worse because the people were denied diagnostic exams? That may not be known now for years.

Most localities closed all their bars and restaurants, throwing millions out of work, and contributing to the increase in the unemployment rate from 3.5% in January, to 15% in March. State Unemployment offices were inundated with claims that, despite Federal money, were delayed when there were simply not enough people to process them. All travel being forbidden decimated the airline industry, and the big aircraft manufacturers. Many parts of the economy simply shut. City streets were deserted.

State Governors had been presented with a kind of power they had never had before. The Feds took the advice of infectious-disease “experts” who had never seen an infectious virus like this one, and so they simply closed the economy, to stop the spread of the virus. But those who run these government agencies knew nothing about making policy, and their jobs and livelihoods were never in danger. They were so far “above” the man or woman on the street that it never occurred to them that they might be doing more harm than good. The news stories emphasized how deadly the virus is, and how you need to protect yourself and others whenever you leave your home. And all the efforts to stop or slow the spread of the virus, have been demonstrably unsuccessful. The virus continues to spread. People still get sick, and some die. But the War of All Against All is perpetuated by Government.

Children have been denied the right to go to school, learn English, math, and science, and play with their friends. They are not allowed out of their homes, except for the back yards (if they have one-kids in big cities don’t). Kids who were eligible for low-cost or free lunch at school cannot get lunch. Children are now being taught to be afraid of their friends.

“Social Distancing” is the new Mantra-stay away from all those other people, because they might carry disease and death! The economy has partially re-opened, but stores everywhere install plexiglass barriers at checkout stands, so the clerks don’t get infected by their customers. Many State Governors have enlisted Businesses to be their “diktat-enforcers”. It is now mandatory for everyone age five and over to wear a “face-covering” or mask whenever they enter a building other than their own home. Businesses who allow un-masked customers in their stores can be fined, or their store closed.

Society itself is being destroyed. Every person is being taught, over and over, to distrust EVERY other person. Government, in its heavy-handed response to the Wuhan Coronavirus, is proceeding to tear down the foundations of society; ripping the people away from their friends and acquaintances, and destroying businesses on a daily basis. Here are some news items. gleaned from various places, showing

The War of All Against All

Virus Takes Heavy Toll on Stores

The outdoors store Land, Sea, And Sky, which sells telescopes and binoculars, closed in March and had its employees working remotely. Once it reopened, it chose to keep the store closed and conduct transactions on the sidewalk. They chose, because they have high-risk employees, not to allow customers back in the shop.

The [record] store stopped allowing customers to review albums in-store.

Truck stops will now require all their customers to wear masks. The coronavirus has made life on the road more challenging for truckers as they contend with new requirements and restrictions.

In a Wall Street Journal article, outside meetings are shown. There is a picture of seven adults in lawn chairs in a circle, all wearing masks, sitting six feet apart. Outdoors. The article says that some people may still feel anxious about meeting in groups, even outdoors.

Headline: Fauci, Powell warn of fresh risks to Lives, Economy, if virus spirals

Health experts say mass adherence to basic guidelines is sorely needed.

Due to safety protocols, many colleges aren’t allowing parents in dorms, or, in some cases, even on campus. Move-in dates have been staggered over multiple days, to allow students to keep distant, with specific time slots allotted. Some schools are limiting the number of suitcases students can bring with them, asking that everything be shipped ahead to reduce trips in and out of the residence halls. Many students will be tested for the virus immediately upon arrival and quarantined as they await results. [Premise: Everyone is assumed to be infected]

About return to schools: Even if the numbers allow them to open, teachers and staff members will have to distance themselves by at least six feet from each other and from children. Students in third grade and higher will be forced to wear masks. [effects: children will not see their teachers smile, or their friends either]

...the American Federation of Teachers, the second-largest education union, threatened “safety strikes” if reopening plans are not to their liking.

On net, therefore, the value of online public school is much lower, especially for young children, than the value of in-person public school.

Summer school has informed some districts’ plans. In Norwalk, Conn., as soon as someone at a summer school tested positive in July, the building shut for three week-days of disinfection, plus the weekend. All six people in the infected person’s group quarantined for 14 days.

Headlines on Wednesday, July 25: Pandemic Lockdowns Clip Sales at Gucci; Altria Sees Pause In Smoking Slide, Shift to Cigarettes [people locked down at home are smoking more]; Closures, Costs, Dent McDonald’s Profit; Starbucks Loss Worst in Decade; Mondelez Snack Sales Suffer From Measures to Fight Virus Overseas; L Brands to Lay Off Hundreds.

Virus Cases Slow, but States Struggle. Headline sounds like it is trying to demoralize us.

There have been numerous stories of citizens in big cities “snitching” on their neighbors. New York issued a phone number for a hotline, for citizens to report others not in compliance with Government Mandates to wear masks and “social-distance” from others. There is now even a word to describe snitches, they are called “Karens”.

Here is a picture from one of my Ricochet friends, of signs she found around her neighborhood one day. Governments are creating a mini-Stasi, the East German Secret Police that kept tabs on all citizens.

Below are some very pithy comments from a bunch of my Ricochet friends, who are in general smarter than the average bear.

As we’ve navigated this pandemic, I’ve seen indicators and warnings (term of art, in my previous life) that we’re all getting played across the board by this pandemic reaction and mitigation efforts. What I am saying is not that there should be no mitigation or protection efforts. I’ve stated my preferences of the start point for protecting the vulnerable before, and early on in this grift. [Boss Mongo]

Progressives are pushing a “no risk” solution, which of course is not “no risk.” It goes like this: Do whatever it takes to ensure that no one dies; OK someone died, but let’s now do whatever it takes so that no one else dies; OK someone else died, but now do whatever it takes so that no others die; (wash, rinse, repeat). This maximizes, not minimizes, total losses. And yet it is being sold as the way to minimize loss. It sounds like a wonderful aspiration: we all work together to keep us all alive. But in practice, it is the best way to assure that more people die — if not as a direct loss to the disease, then as an indirect loss due to the response to the disease. [Rodin]

Governments, businesses, organizations, and people have imposed or implemented many virus transmission mitigation efforts, including closing businesses, schools, churches, public events and social activities, preventing travel, forcing people to remain physically distant from one another, and building physical barriers to separate people from one another, including extra walls, face masks, etc. These virus transmission mitigation efforts have and will continue to impose significant costs on society and on individuals. “Costs” that are not just monetary, but also medical, psychological, and social. [Full Size Tabby]

Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti announced tonight that he has authorized the city to shut off water and power at homes and businesses that continue to host large parties and gatherings, “in flagrant violation” of health orders:

“Starting on Friday night, if the LAPD responds and verifies that a large gathering is occurring at a property, and we see these properties re-offending time and time again, they will provide notice and initiate the process to request that DWP shut off service within the next 48 hours.” [ontheleftcoast, but I had already seen this info]

This next part is something I copied myself from the KOMO Seattle Web Site. There is a well-known U of Washington group whose prediction/projection “models” of the virus spread/containment inform the governor of Washington state, who has said that the massive restrictions will stay in place “until there is a vaccine” for the virus. In my opinion, this is evil.

SEATTLE – Washington state will likely need to reimpose stricter stay-home orders and business closures by October amid a projected increase in the state’s death rate from coronavirus, according to a new University of Washington study released Thursday.

The study says the stricter measures will be needed when the state’s daily death rate reaches 8 per million, and may be similar to those imposed at the start of the pandemic in March and April, including closures of nonessential businesses and expanded stay-home orders.

However, if face mask usage were to increase to 95% of the state’s population, the stricter measures could be delayed by six to eight weeks, the study concluded.

The new study by UW’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation also found that America’s “rollercoaster” approach to COVID-19 is worsening the effects of the pandemic, and that the nation could see nearly 300,000 deaths by Dec. 1 unless there is a wholesale increase in mask-wearing.“We’re seeing a rollercoaster in the United States,” said IHME Director Christopher Murray. “It appears that people are wearing masks and socially distancing more frequently as infections increase, then after a while as infections drop, people let their guard down and stop taking these measures to protect themselves and others – which, of course, leads to more infections. And the potentially deadly cycle starts over again.”

The study forecasts a total U.S death toll of 295,011 by December if mask-wearing does not increase – an increase of 137,000 fatalities over the current total of 158,000.

However, if 95% of the people in the U.S. were to wear masks when leaving their homes starting today, that total number would decrease to 228,271 deaths, a drop of 49%, the study projects. And more than 66,000 lives would be saved.

There is no possible way that those modelers can have any kind of certainty about any of the above statements, and just the thought that they can impose strict stay-home orders on the Citizens of Washington State on such flimsy evidence is appalling! And, what if there never is a vaccine? What if the virus just stays around? Will the people let the state run their lives forever?

Spot Inspections Rise as Officials Seek Covid-19 Safety compliance.

Governments in the United States are pitting each citizen against every other citizen. Mask-wearing is said to “protect you from others, and others from you”. The government is creating the ultimate low-trust society in the United States, and that will ensure that the United States as Founded, will disappear. If each American is taught to be deathly afraid of each other American, how can anyone ever have some semblance of a normal life? Governments and the Press are already getting us prepared for the “new normal” of remaining socially-distant from our former friends and coworkers, obsessively washing everything in our environment, including ourselves, and suspicion of every place other than our own homes.

Governments have destroyed Sports, both professional and amateur. My husband goes to an athletic club to play squash; the club was hard-closed for five months! Even now, the club is open, but he can’t play with another person on the court or even take a shower after hitting by himself. This is cruelty! I wonder if all those pro football season-ticket holders will be keeping those seats, if they are not allowed to watch the games in person?

They have destroyed the performing arts (see my post on that subject from June). Our tickets for Seattle Repertory Jazz Orchestra were worthless since all the 2020 concerts were canceled. At least the organization got our money. Will they survive? Unknown.

In an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, entitled “Want Schools to Open? Get Serious about Outbreaks”, former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb and a co-author say these things:

[low-income children] These are the children whose futures will suffer most from keeping schools shut. The country chose the short-term benefit of reopening un-essential businesses over the long-term benefit of ensuring children could be educated properly. [This is manifestly BS. Who are they to deem any business un-essential?]

…trying to open schools doesn’t mean pretending Covid poses no risk to children, a move that only sows distrust among parents [as if that statement didn’t sow distrust itself]. Closed schools in the spring protected many children from Covid [impossible to prove]. This deliberate sheltering means we don’t know all the consequences of the virus spreading widely in children [assumption that the consequences would be dire].

And possibly the worst part of all this destruction is that the People, from very early on, have been compliant, obedient, Sheep. Notice how easy it was for most US Citizens to be herded into their homes, and ordered to stay there. Like dogs, who drool on their masters and obsequiously do their bidding, the American people allowed themselves to be ruled by their elected officials, with next to no pushback. Even now, six months later, there is still very little clamor from the people, demanding to be let out of their pens and go back to productive work. The Powers are saying that it might be necessary for further lockdowns this year-where are the cries from the cowed, compliant masses?

The “Healthcare Emergency” that started in February is now over six months old, and Governments everywhere still have their boots on the necks of all citizens. Most cities are enforcing mask requirements and insisting that people stay six feet away for all other people. Bars and restaurants are still closed, or only partially open. Fear literally permeates the entire country. Adults are prevented from meeting their friends outside, and in many places, even in their own homes! No one’s life is safe from government mandates anymore. Unemployment is still stubbornly high, and many people will soon exhaust their benefits. Governments say, “don’t worry, we will take care of you, and protect you from that nasty, killer Virus”. But most people don’t want the government to take care of them. We want the Government to let us get back to work, and play. We want our children to be able to play outside with their friends and go to school to learn.

Most of us don’t want to be at war with everyone else. We need to start fighting back against our own governments. They are truly Drunk with Power and need to be stopped. Starting with the local level. Tell your Rulers that you will elect new officials who see their citizens as adults who can make their own decisions, instead of as children who need to be controlled by their betters. We need to Reject the War of All Against All, before we are All ruined.

[Originally posted at RushBabe49.com. Thanks to all my Rico friends for the quoted passages]

Published in Domestic Policy
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Get your first month free.

There are 15 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Bruce Caward Thatcher
    Bruce Caward Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I want to read this to everyone I know.

    • #1
    • August 12, 2020, at 12:55 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  2. Southern Pessimist Member

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    • #2
    • August 12, 2020, at 5:09 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  3. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    • #3
    • August 12, 2020, at 5:43 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  4. Southern Pessimist Member

    No, although there has been enormous knowledge gained in virology and epidemiology in the past fifty plus years, the data spoke for itself. The mortality and morbidly data may have been somewhat less precise due to lack of specific testing identifiers but we have not progressed much beyond that in these times. It has never been hard to define who suffers from the “flu”. Do you really think we know how many people have Covid-19 today?

    • #4
    • August 12, 2020, at 7:57 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  5. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    No, although there has been enormous knowledge gained in virology and epidemiology in the past fifty plus years, the data spoke for itself. The mortality and morbidly data may have been somewhat less precise due to lack of specific testing identifiers but we have not progressed much beyond that in these times. It has never been hard to define who suffers from the “flu”. Do you really think we know how many people have Covid-19 today?

    Thank you. I appreciate additional knowledge. 

    • #5
    • August 12, 2020, at 7:59 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  6. Stad Coolidge

    We have been set up for an immediate, nationwide economic shutdown any time a new disease with a name is suspected. Governments now know exactly how much we’ll take and for how long. “Flatten the curve” is one thing, but “prevent any deaths even if we destroy the economy” is another thing altogether . . .

    • #6
    • August 13, 2020, at 6:15 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  7. Old Bathos Moderator

    The big problem is not the marginally effective gestures (masks, distancing) or the order of a two-week lockdown. Problem is that nobody seems to know how to stop or to prevent bizarre beliefs that without these barely useful protocols, we will all die. 

    We seem to defer to stupid in a crisis: No sense of proportion, innumeracy, no concept of risk, policy monomania, the weird need to develop a personal identity through conformity and enemies’ lists.

     

     

    • #7
    • August 13, 2020, at 7:28 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  8. I Walton Member

    We’re seeing what top down does and one of the things it does is enhance top down approaches, power accumulates and narrows. The world remained centralized and unstable from the end of Rome, (its death took a while to truly centralize) until the US was created. It will take a while to die, not as long as it took Rome, but long enough to be replaced by China, whatever that may mean.

    • #8
    • August 13, 2020, at 7:41 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  9. ToryWarWriter Thatcher

    One day in the future our children are going to look back on our collective madness and condemn us for it. They will no doubt be still suffering from the after effects of the real problems our foolishness caused.

    • #9
    • August 13, 2020, at 8:00 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  10. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    I was a college student in the 1957 flu epidemic. I was living in the fraternity house as, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live at college. The flu hit during rushing season and we met rushees from our beds. Nobody worried about catching the flu.

    Evidence of the present insanity is the fact that children, unlike the 1917 flu, are at least risk. This is pretty typical of viruses. The 1917 epidemic was an exception. More evidence is the closing of gyms which are the venues used by those at least risk except children.

    • #10
    • August 13, 2020, at 9:24 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  11. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    I was a college student in the 1957 flu epidemic. I was living in the fraternity house as, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live at college. The flu hit during rushing season and we met rushees from our beds. Nobody worried about catching the flu.

    Evidence of the present insanity is the fact that children, unlike the 1917 flu, are at least risk. This is pretty typical of viruses. The 1917 epidemic was an exception. More evidence is the closing of gyms which are the venues used by those at least risk except children.

    This is not correct. Flu mortality generally has a bimodal distribution, hitting primarily the very young and very old, though mostly favoring older people. The oddity of the 1917-18 flu is that it hit young adults, people in the prime of their lives. That has never again been the case with a pandemic flu, nor with any other infectious disease to my knowledge (an argument might be made for HIV, but it can be accounted for by higher risk behaviors among the young adult age groups).

    • #11
    • August 13, 2020, at 1:13 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Caryn (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    I was a college student in the 1957 flu epidemic. I was living in the fraternity house as, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live at college. The flu hit during rushing season and we met rushees from our beds. Nobody worried about catching the flu.

    Evidence of the present insanity is the fact that children, unlike the 1917 flu, are at least risk. This is pretty typical of viruses. The 1917 epidemic was an exception. More evidence is the closing of gyms which are the venues used by those at least risk except children.

    This is not correct. Flu mortality generally has a bimodal distribution, hitting primarily the very young and very old, though mostly favoring older people. The oddity of the 1917-18 flu is that it hit young adults, people in the prime of their lives. That has never again been the case with a pandemic flu, nor with any other infectious disease to my knowledge (an argument might be made for HIV, but it can be accounted for by higher risk behaviors among the young adult age groups).

    That was my point. It is also a fact that polio, a virus that caused a huge amount of harm for 70 years, largely spared small children. It was a disease of cleanliness that appeared in the 1880s and, once an antibody assay was possible, was found to be universal among poor small children with no history of paralysis.

    • #12
    • August 13, 2020, at 4:19 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  13. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    I was a college student in the 1957 flu epidemic. I was living in the fraternity house as, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live at college. The flu hit during rushing season and we met rushees from our beds. Nobody worried about catching the flu.

    Evidence of the present insanity is the fact that children, unlike the 1917 flu, are at least risk. This is pretty typical of viruses. The 1917 epidemic was an exception. More evidence is the closing of gyms which are the venues used by those at least risk except children.

    This is not correct. Flu mortality generally has a bimodal distribution, hitting primarily the very young and very old, though mostly favoring older people. The oddity of the 1917-18 flu is that it hit young adults, people in the prime of their lives. That has never again been the case with a pandemic flu, nor with any other infectious disease to my knowledge (an argument might be made for HIV, but it can be accounted for by higher risk behaviors among the young adult age groups).

    That was my point. It is also a fact that polio, a virus that caused a huge amount of harm for 70 years, largely spared small children. It was a disease of cleanliness that appeared in the 1880s and, once an antibody assay was possible, was found to be universal among poor small children with no history of paralysis.

    I would not have expected you to get it wrong! But that’s not what you said. Re-read what you wrote and you’ll see why I objected. It must not have been your intent, but the sentence structure suggests that children were at high risk in the 1917 influenza pandemic. 

    As far as age distribution in the current pandemic, we are seeing a larger number of high viral load positive patients in their low 20s to 30s than we were back in March and April, with many of them asymptomatic (caught on pre-op screens). It hit the old people first, but…well, I’ve been saying all along that we’ll only know the true natural history of this disease in hindsight–probably two years down the road from the first cases. We’re learning as we are going along. Unfortunately, the untidy process is being broadcast 24/7 with corrections in knowledge being denounced as lies. That part is very sad and destructive to our nationhood.

    • #13
    • August 13, 2020, at 6:03 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  14. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Caryn (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    I was a college student in the 1957 flu epidemic. I was living in the fraternity house as, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live at college. The flu hit during rushing season and we met rushees from our beds. Nobody worried about catching the flu.

    Evidence of the present insanity is the fact that children, unlike the 1917 flu, are at least risk. This is pretty typical of viruses. The 1917 epidemic was an exception. More evidence is the closing of gyms which are the venues used by those at least risk except children.

    This is not correct. Flu mortality generally has a bimodal distribution, hitting primarily the very young and very old, though mostly favoring older people. The oddity of the 1917-18 flu is that it hit young adults, people in the prime of their lives. That has never again been the case with a pandemic flu, nor with any other infectious disease to my knowledge snip

    That was my point. It is also a fact that polio, a virus that caused a huge amount of harm for 70 years, largely spared small children. It was a disease of cleanliness that appeared in the 1880s and, once an antibody assay was possible, was found to be universal among poor small children with no history of paralysis.

    I would not have expected you to get it wrong! But that’s not what you said. Re-read what you wrote and you’ll see why I objected. It must not have been your intent, but the sentence structure suggests that children were at high risk in the 1917 influenza pandemic.

    snip

    I choose not to belabor this. It is a fact that the 1917 flu hit the young and healthy harder. This is contrary to the usual experience with viruses. Examples are polio and chickenpox for only two.

    • #14
    • August 14, 2020, at 2:32 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  15. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):

    There was an interesting article I read on the net last week that described a scientific review of the 1957 Hong Kong flu written in 2006, I think. There were many interesting points but the one that stuck out to me was that in that pandemic, 25% of pregnant women who contracted the infection died from that infection and there were serious birth defects in the infants who survived. Can you imagine the hysteria if even 1% of pregnant women today died from covid-19?

    I wonder if it was really the flu in 1957? They probably didn’t have the science back then to separate out all the varieties of viral infections, and I’m betting they didn’t have the high-powered electron microscopes to actually see what the viruses looked like. Maybe it was something other than flu. Remember Zika, and all the birth defects that caused?

    I was a college student in the 1957 flu epidemic. I was living in the fraternity house as, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live at college. The flu hit during rushing season and we met rushees from our beds. Nobody worried about catching the flu.

    Evidence of the present insanity is the fact that children, unlike the 1917 flu, are at least risk. This is pretty typical of viruses. The 1917 epidemic was an exception. More evidence is the closing of gyms which are the venues used by those at least risk except children.

    This is not correct. Flu mortality generally has a bimodal distribution, hitting primarily the very young and very old, though mostly favoring older people. The oddity of the 1917-18 flu is that it hit young adults, people in the prime of their lives. That has never again been the case with a pandemic flu, nor with any other infectious disease to my knowledge snip

    That was my point. It is also a fact that polio, a virus that caused a huge amount of harm for 70 years, largely spared small children. It was a disease of cleanliness that appeared in the 1880s and, once an antibody assay was possible, was found to be universal among poor small children with no history of paralysis.

    I would not have expected you to get it wrong! But that’s not what you said. Re-read what you wrote and you’ll see why I objected. It must not have been your intent, but the sentence structure suggests that children were at high risk in the 1917 influenza pandemic.

    snip

    I choose not to belabor this. It is a fact that the 1917 flu hit the young and healthy harder. This is contrary to the usual experience with viruses. Examples are polio and chickenpox for only two.

    You know I’m essentially agreeing with you, but you got something wrong and now you choose not to belabor it and then obfuscate? “Children” does not equal “young and healthy.” I corrected your “children” to “young adults,” ie. young and healthy, which was the population atypically affected by the 1917-8 flu, and now you claim that’s what you said when it wasn’t? Okay, now I’ll choose not to belabor.

     

    • #15
    • August 17, 2020, at 12:53 AM PDT
    • 1 like