Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. “You say you want a revolution”: Incels, Ideology, and Charles Murray

 

For those that are unaware, Incel is a portmanteau of “involuntary celibate,” and encompasses men who fit just what that description implies, but also a range of other behaviors and opinions. The term was originally coined by a female Canadian university student as a reference, and the name for an online support group, to people of both genders that struggled to garner romantic relationships. Incels today are almost all men and are quite far afield of the original version of that term. In addition to their virginity, they have a developed system of thought on women, society, and romantic life. 

To put it bluntly, the vast majority of Incels consider women non-human. The kindest might deign to mark them as animals, or human-like creatures, hence the common use of the term “foid” (female humanoid). In their minds, women are incapable of love, loyalty, selflessness, real strength, or rational thought; they live to engage in casual relationships with high-status men (“chads”), and when they are inevitably made worthless anatomically and physically by this, spend the rest of their lives with desperate low-status men who provide them with money while they have children born of countless extramarital affairs. But maybe women who chose not to follow this path are slightly more highly regarded? No. Not even a little. Unmarried women are unimaginably selfish evildoers who live to lead on an endless stream of innocent men, and those that chose not to have children deserve instant death because they haven’t fulfilled the one purpose that women have in the world as breeding sows. 

Educated women, career women, and the vast majority of women over the age of 18 are given to similar contempt. The first two groups because they had nothing to do with their own success, which was earned solely from their bodies and looks, and the third because all women over that age (often much younger) are regarded as “used up”, having already had hundreds of partners. Simply put, their “femoids” have no intelligence except cunning, no worth except as objects, and no reason to exist outside of the biological imperative. In keeping with this lovely and totally rational system of thought, female survivors of sexual assault are the lowest of the low, and in incels terms not only deserved what happened to them but enjoyed it, labeling it a violation only when it happened at the hands of an unattractive man. 

“Soyciety”* perpetuates this state of affairs, and helps to keep Incels, as well as their MGTOW, red pill*, and black pill* brethren, down. Incel history posits that until the early 20th century, men had been in absolute control of every civilization that ever existed, and that the West made a mistake in granting women wider rights and equal status with men. Societies like Saudi Arabia, where women are treated as property and have little to no say in everything from government to their own personal lives, are the ideal from which the West has strayed, and will eventually overtake the West. Men are second class citizens and should unite to rise up and take back their traditional rights in order to put history back to rights, consigning universal suffrage and consent laws, among many other things, to the past. They are enthused to use concentration camps (which would double as breeding centers) and widespread sexual assault as weapons in carrying out that revolution, which would be easily won when all men realized the truth of their ideas, and because women are so inferior in physical strength and intelligence. 

Naturally, there is also a healthy amount of racism mixed into Incel beliefs. Most buy into the standard “Jews run the world, Rothschilds are hiding under my bed and stopping me from getting women, using capitalism to enslave me” line. They also have a deep obsession with height, skin color, race characteristics, and canthal tilt; women are hypergamous (always seek to marry those of a higher genetic and social position) and thus Incels are denied their “looksmatch”, as is almost any man under 6” who doesn’t look like he just stepped out of a Harlequin romance novel. It should also be noted that their ratings of women are wild, with most supermodels falling into the 5-6 range on a 10 scale, in large part because they either don’t look like 2-D Japanese anime girls or because they lack the features that make men attractive (height, strong jaw, etc). 

Of course, in a society like this, especially when women are beings of such evil, Incels are incapable of having romantic lives. Some try to blend in as socially normal, while others run to the other extreme, becoming NEETs (not in education or training) who take up residence in their parents’ basements and/or live off of government benefits. Few have hobbies beyond viewing adult material, video games, “blackpill” philosophy, and spending hours on Incel and related forums (many of which encourage pedophilia and the grooming of younger female relatives, hence they are often hosted on servers outside the US). They occasionally report on their interactions with females in the real world, largely adding up to detailed first-person narratives about a history of anti-social, abusive, and sometimes all-out criminal behavior. A few, both in the US and abroad, have committed large scale violence, like school shootings, and estimates put their numbers anywhere from the thousands to the hundreds of thousands.

What causes this phenomenon? Incels have received a lot of press, even internationally, in the last few years, and the majority of those detailed reports hit the nail on the head; untreated mental illness, closeted homosexuality, poor family relationships, and/or simple malignancy are the main ones. But I would like to posit another, which is both economic and philosophical. Charles Murray, in Coming Apart, argued that men in “Fishtowns”, areas of low economic development with poor social cohesion or community formation, were vastly more likely to turn to drugs, crime, dependency, and suicide than counterparts from higher economic statuses with more coherent communities. I think Incels fit into this, but not in a neat, tidy way.

Some percentage of them, in addition to the other issues listed above, do choose to become Incels because of the impact of the factors Murray explored, in the same way, that their counterparts might choose drugs. Bad backgrounds will always have an impact. However, some measures of incels come from “Belmont” rather than “Fishtown” and have a variety of options presented to them in life, a pretty great amount of privilege in some cases. And I think their anger, and Incel status, flows from a sense of entitlement. Life has not been perfect since childhood and when they see others of the same background, and even worse ones, flourishing, rather than seeking to find the font of their romantic (and other) issues, they shift blame. Many tales are told in Incel forums of young men dropping out of high school and college because all was not as they expected; women didn’t throw themselves at them, courses were challenging (although all “foids” will obviously pass because of their sex), and social lives took effort. In essence, they absorbed and idealized a warped picture of 1950s America (one which conveniently cut out a lot of the casual racism and some women’s dependency on drugs as the post-war society demanded that they give up jobs which had given their lives purpose), and feel that they deserve a white picket fence, three kids, a dog, and a loving wife. Society, romantic norms, and evil women like me, who chose careers over marriage with kids (and engage in male pursuits like boxing and higher education), are the root of their problems and must be eliminated in order to re-establish paradise. 

I’ll end this on a slightly preachy note. If you have a child, grandchild, or friend that you think might be falling into an ideology like this, please reach out to them. Communities like those centered around Incel ideology are borderline cults, and they do as much damage to their members as their members seek to do to women at large. Some men get out, but other men end up ruining their lives (and others’) in pursuit of fulfilling Incel thought, and any time that can be prevented from happening is a wonderful thing. 

* “Soyciety” = Present-day society, which has been robbed of ‘manly’ virtue by allowing women equal rights and status to men. The soy moniker is based on the argument that soy introduces high amounts of estrogen to the body, and Soyciety also sometimes encompasses the argument that elites are using chemical means to ‘feminize’ society through chlorinated drinking water, vaccines, etc.

*”Red Pill” = “The incel red pill can be explained by the 80/20 rule, which says that 80% of women desire just 20% of men. This means that the vast majority of men will never be desirable and consequentially will never find sexual fulfillment and happiness.”

*”Black Pill” = “The Red Pill’s nihilistic cousin. The idea behind “redpilling” is that men recognise that the world is unfair and stacked against them in favour of women. From there, they can game the system by becoming an “alpha” male, going to the gym, treating women poorly, and so on. The black pill rejects this, saying that there can be no personal solutions to systemic problems, and that the world was, is and always will be stacked against men who are “genetically inferior”, and that women are inherently wired to prefer men with particular kinds of facial features, bone structure, and body type.”

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  1. Phil Turmel Coolidge

    I’ve encountered the appellation in various places, but hadn’t encountered the depths of depravity you describe. Care to estimate quantities?

    • #1
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:07 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  2. The Reticulator Member

    How do they enforce doctrinal belief within their exclusive group?

    • #2
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:18 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  3. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron MillerJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I have never encountered such a person, even online. There are many middle-aged bachelors. Complaints have been made on Ricochet regarding the extent of man-hating feminism. But I don’t recall anyone claiming all women are selfish, predatory jerks. 

    The closest I’ve heard is the unabashed chauvinism imported from south of the Rio Grande. That doesn’t seem very common either, but my hispanic lady friends in San Antonio sometimes complained about it.

    • #3
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:24 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  4. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    I’ve encountered the appellation in various places, but hadn’t encountered the depths of depravity you describe. Care to estimate quantities?

    I’m not a social scientist, nor do I have access to any firm stats, but my guess is that (in between the two extremes that I mentioned) I would guess in the tens of thousands worldwide, including guys that are marginally Incel (like MGTOWs, which are basically just Incels that are trying to put a new spin on the situation). They are important enough (read, in some measure, big enough) that a lot of governments keep eyes on their forums and regard them as a terrorist threat, so that tells me that people with more knowledge see substantial numbers. 

    • #4
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:24 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  5. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    How do they enforce doctrinal belief within their exclusive group?

    Obviously there aren’t any Incel police, but their forums (where users are encouraged to spend as many hours a day as possible) are toxic echo chambers. They also have something called “black pill” ideology, which basically forces subscribers to see everything through that prism. I think most of these guys are desperate for a reason other than themselves for the way their lives have turned out, and that makes being a good little Incel not too hard. 

    • #5
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:26 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  6. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    I have never encountered such a person, even online. There are many middle-aged bachelors. Complaints have been made on Ricochet regarding the extent of man-hating feminism. But I don’t recall anyone claiming all women are selfish, predatory jerks.

    The closest I’ve heard is the unabashed chauvinism imported from south of the Rio Grande. That doesn’t seem very common either, but my hispanic lady friends in San Antonio sometimes complained about it.

    There’s no certain place for encountering them (thank God), but they do seem to congregate on dating sites/apps. Some are quite clear on what they are, and try to get women to fit with their absurd standards, and others spend a big amount of time cat fishing women on the same platforms. They also have their own forums, which I wouldn’t really recommend looking at. Try r/inceltears if you want an idea. 

    • #6
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:29 PM PDT
    • Like
  7. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    I’ve encountered the appellation in various places, but hadn’t encountered the depths of depravity you describe. Care to estimate quantities?

    I’m not a social scientist, nor do I have access to any firm stats, but my guess is that (in between the two extremes that I mentioned) I would guess in the tens of thousands worldwide, including guys that are marginally Incel (like MGTOWs, which are basically just Incels that are trying to put a new spin on the situation). They are important enough (read, in some measure, big enough) that a lot of governments keep eyes on their forums and regard them as a terrorist threat, so that tells me that people with more knowledge see substantial numbers.

    I haven’t seen any studies at all, and given that the journalists that write about them are similar to the ones that crowed “Russian collusion” based on leaks from “deep resources” give me very little reason to believe that the “incel community” is anything more than a paltry collection of cranks and misogynists.

    • #7
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:35 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  8. Richard Fulmer Member

    You might consider linking words and phrases like MGTOW, red pill, black pill, and soyciety to definitions for us old farts. Other than that, my only comment is: Ewwwww

    • #8
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:35 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  9. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Richard Fulmer (View Comment):

    You might consider linking words and phrases like MGTOW, red pill, black pill, and soyciety to definitions for us old farts. Other than that, my only comment is: Ewwwww

    Will do! And I second that.

    • #9
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:39 PM PDT
    • Like
  10. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Percival (View Comment):

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    I’ve encountered the appellation in various places, but hadn’t encountered the depths of depravity you describe. Care to estimate quantities?

    I’m not a social scientist, nor do I have access to any firm stats, but my guess is that (in between the two extremes that I mentioned) I would guess in the tens of thousands worldwide, including guys that are marginally Incel (like MGTOWs, which are basically just Incels that are trying to put a new spin on the situation). They are important enough (read, in some measure, big enough) that a lot of governments keep eyes on their forums and regard them as a terrorist threat, so that tells me that people with more knowledge see substantial numbers.

    I haven’t seen any studies at all, and given that the journalists that write about them are similar to the ones that crowed “Russian collusion” based on leaks from “deep resources” give me very little reason to believe that the “incel community” is anything more than a paltry collection of cranks and misogynists.

    I think there’s a good amount of that, but these guys have also encouraged suicides, violence, and (more than one) mass murder. Realistically, the majority of them are probably harmless, but the other less stable or more malign ones can do a good deal of bad. They also delight in doxxing women, which causes real harm and hurt to come to innocent people. 

    • #10
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:41 PM PDT
    • Like
  11. Tex929rr Coolidge

    I find the socioeconomic status interesting. I first heard the term when that twit drove his BMW around murdering women in California. This one: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-elliot-rodger-incel-20180426-story.html%3f_amp=true

    His name doesn’t deserve to be repeated. I guess because he was the first I’d heard of it I sort of assumed that it was a middle to upper class affliction. But it makes sense that it would also appear in lower income groups – all these people can find each other on the web easily enough. Isn’t 4chan a big part of this culture?

    And I looked up canthal tilt. That anyone cares about that is very creepy.

    • #11
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:41 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  12. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    I find the socioeconomic status interesting. I first heard the term when that twit drove his BMW around murdering women in California. This one: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-elliot-rodger-incel-20180426-story.html%3f_amp=true

    His name doesn’t deserve to be repeated. I guess because he was the first I’d heard of it I sort of assumed that it was a middle to upper class affliction. But it makes sense that it would also appear in lower income groups – all these people can find each other on the web easily enough. Isn’t 4chan a big part of this culture?

    It is. Especially because a lot of guys end up transitioning into advocating some form of pedophilia, which is more likely to go unmolested on 4chan. And the guy you mentioned is considered an “Incel saint”, they talk all the time about going “ER.” 

    • #12
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:47 PM PDT
    • Like
  13. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):
    Realistically, the majority of them are probably harmless, but the other less stable or more malign ones can do a good deal of bad.

    And that could be applied to any group, real or imagined.

    You may not see the dangers of playing bridge, but some of those bridge players are dangerous!

    • #13
    • August 5, 2020, at 5:52 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  14. Charlotte Member
    CharlotteJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how do you know all of this?

    • #14
    • August 5, 2020, at 6:42 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. Charlotte Member
    CharlotteJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The villain in Michael Connelly’s latest book is an incel.

    • #15
    • August 5, 2020, at 6:46 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  16. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how do you know all of this?

    No worries. I heard someone mention the term some time ago, and kind of fell down a rabbit hole out of curiosity, probably just because I had never seen anything like it. Someone advocating putting all women in concentration camps is pretty…eye catching and I wanted to see where the motivation was coming from. I also know way more about hikikomori and 18th century Sufi orders than I should, I think being trained as an academic historian sometimes makes me treat even inane interests as research projects. I promise I’m not a secret (female) incel.

    • #16
    • August 5, 2020, at 6:58 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  17. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    For those that are curious about terms, this website has an A-Z Incel dictionary: 

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2018/5/30/a-definitive-guide-to-incels-part-two-the-blackpill-and-vocabulary%3fformat=amp

    • #17
    • August 5, 2020, at 6:59 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how do you know all of this?

    No worries. I heard someone mention the term some time ago, and kind of fell down a rabbit hole out of curiosity, probably just because I had never seen anything like it. Someone advocating putting all women in concentration camps is pretty…eye catching and I wanted to see where the motivation was coming from. I also know way more about hikikomori and 18th century Sufi orders than I should, I think being trained as an academic historian sometimes makes me treat even inane interests as research projects.

    I think it’s also a generation thing; words like Incel, Nice Guy, and Neckbeard just kind of float in the conversational ether with people my age, and they are handy terms for women to warn each other about men. I’m lucky in that I’ve never had a (knowing) encounter with an Incel, although I definitely have with a Neckbeard, but a lot of girls my age have, especially online. Not being particularly online also has probably saved me from those kinds of interactions. Maybe part of the fascination also stems from the fact that I have a special kind of hatred for men that treat sexual assault like a joke, or something that should be done, they lose 95% of my sympathy at that point. 

    • #18
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:03 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  19. Hang On Member
    Hang OnJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I didn’t know any of this previously. This probably just all got lumped together in the past. What social science is about is finding finer and finer granularity. 

    • #19
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:05 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  20. Charlotte Member
    CharlotteJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how do you know all of this?

    No worries. I heard someone mention the term some time ago, and kind of fell down a rabbit hole out of curiosity, probably just because I had never seen anything like it. Someone advocating putting all women in concentration camps is pretty…eye catching and I wanted to see where the motivation was coming from. I also know way more about hikikomori and 18th century Sufi orders than I should, I think being trained as an academic historian sometimes makes me treat even inane interests as research projects.

    Fair enough. Looking forward to your upcoming post on hikikomori.

    • #20
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:05 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  21. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    The villain in Michael Connelly’s latest book is an incel.

    … and the hero is a journalist.

    • #21
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:06 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  22. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how do you know all of this?

    No worries. I heard someone mention the term some time ago, and kind of fell down a rabbit hole out of curiosity, probably just because I had never seen anything like it. Someone advocating putting all women in concentration camps is pretty…eye catching and I wanted to see where the motivation was coming from. I also know way more about hikikomori and 18th century Sufi orders than I should, I think being trained as an academic historian sometimes makes me treat even inane interests as research projects. I promise I’m not a secret (female) incel.

    Don’t spend too much time with the crazy.

    • #22
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:26 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  23. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Percival (View Comment):

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how do you know all of this?

    No worries. I heard someone mention the term some time ago, and kind of fell down a rabbit hole out of curiosity, probably just because I had never seen anything like it. Someone advocating putting all women in concentration camps is pretty…eye catching and I wanted to see where the motivation was coming from. I also know way more about hikikomori and 18th century Sufi orders than I should, I think being trained as an academic historian sometimes makes me treat even inane interests as research projects. I promise I’m not a secret (female) incel.

    Don’t spend too much time with the crazy.

    I try not to generally. I just got something about Incels in my recommended for YouTube, when I went to find music for a run, and it made me think of the post I had been considering about this in the back of my mind. There are much better things in the world to use my time for, like reading The Godfather, which is what I spent most of the power outage we had last night doing. 

    • #23
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:29 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  24. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    I’ve encountered the appellation in various places, but hadn’t encountered the depths of depravity you describe. Care to estimate quantities?

    I’m not a social scientist, nor do I have access to any firm stats, but my guess is that (in between the two extremes that I mentioned) I would guess in the tens of thousands worldwide, including guys that are marginally Incel (like MGTOWs, which are basically just Incels that are trying to put a new spin on the situation). They are important enough (read, in some measure, big enough) that a lot of governments keep eyes on their forums and regard them as a terrorist threat, so that tells me that people with more knowledge see substantial numbers.

    No, they see people to blame and spin to advantage. 

    • #24
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:31 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  25. Cal Lawton Member
    Cal LawtonJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    LARPers. NPC. Mountain Dew versus Jolt. The Kelvin timeline isn’t canon.

    So…dorks.

    • #25
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:34 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  26. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    Percival (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    The villain in Michael Connelly’s latest book is an incel.

    … and the hero is a journalist.

    Thus fiction, maybe fantasy 

    • #26
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:36 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Cal Lawton (View Comment):

    LARPers. NPC. Mountain Dew versus Jolt. The Kelvin timeline isn’t canon.

    So…dorks.

    I haven’t seen Jolt anywhere for at least ten years.

    • #27
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:38 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  28. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer

    Percival (View Comment):

    Cal Lawton (View Comment):

    LARPers. NPC. Mountain Dew versus Jolt. The Kelvin timeline isn’t canon.

    So…dorks.

    I haven’t seen Jolt anywhere for at least ten years.

    I had to Google it, never heard of it before. This is, at least in some cases, the tendies and Mountain Dew crowd (and anime waifus for good measure), but there are others mixed in. 

    • #28
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:41 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  29. Barfly Member

    Hang On (View Comment):

    I didn’t know any of this previously. This probably just all got lumped together in the past. What social science is about is finding finer and finer granularity.

    You get it. It’s because the left always has to grind finer and finer to create new distinctions. The salient characteristic of individuals and societies of the left is they distinguish and advance themselves by creating differences, that they may then exploit. (One of Barfly’s theorems: Leftists betray.)

    I suggest the whole incel thing, including every bit of the culture KW has dirtied himself with, is a result of the social distinction that was first manufactured by the left. (Thanks for taking one for the team.) There have always been a few embittered men (and women) but the coalescence of an incel culture, to the extent such a thing is real at all and not a false flag sham (yes, there are such things on the net), is a confused and muddled response to the left’s invention. 

     

    • #29
    • August 5, 2020, at 7:51 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  30. Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw Member

    Percival (View Comment):

    Cal Lawton (View Comment):

    LARPers. NPC. Mountain Dew versus Jolt. The Kelvin timeline isn’t canon.

    So…dorks.

    I haven’t seen Jolt anywhere for at least ten years.

    Sounds about right. It was big for us in high school, then I think it got discontinued then someone brought it back. 

    • #30
    • August 5, 2020, at 10:44 PM PDT
    • 2 likes