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Fauci’s Farcical Facemask Follies
Full disclosure: I’m a mask skeptic. A mask denier. I am not, though, a mask refuser. If a business establishment puts up a sign that says “mask required” or, better, “please wear a mask,” I’ll do it without too much grousing ’cause that’s me, I’m a giver. I carry and, as required, wear a mask for the same reason I carry a leash when I walk my German Shepherd Dog. I don’t need the accouterment in either case, but if I can prevent anyone feeling ill at ease with my actions, I will. Did I mention yet that I’m a giver? Yeah? Okay, drivin’ on.
As we’ve navigated this pandemic, I’ve seen indicators and warnings (term of art, in my previous life) that we’re all getting played across the board by this pandemic reaction and mitigation efforts. What I am saying is not that there should be no mitigation or protection efforts. I’ve stated my preferences of the start point for protecting the vulnerable before, and early on in this grift.
I’m definitely not a medical professional, but I’ve received and maintained (mostly) some extensive medical training. In first aid ABCs (Airway, Breathing, Circulation…) I at one point was good to go up to “J” (insert J-tube into chest). Also, I’ve had some extensive CBRNE (chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, explosive) training, including “live agent” training. I’ma tell you what, you want to pay attention during class on how to ensure you stay “clean,” take that class knowing that you’ll soon be in a chamber full of Sarin nerve agent, watching a poor, staked out caprine do the kickin’ chicken. It indeed focuses the mind.
Too, I’ve been married for at/about 137 years to The Lovely And Talented Mrs. Mongo, AKA Supernurse. So through osmosis on her journey as an Army CASH operating room nurse, Labor & Delivery nurse, open heart nurse, and clinical risk manager, I’ve become an inadvertent expert on a lot of random medical stuff, to include sterile procedure, infection control, and personal protective equipment.
Still, I’m not a pro, so salt my anecdotal observations and conclusions therefrom to taste.
Hurricane Isaias (ridiculous name, why you makin’ things harder than they need to be, NHC?) was barreling up the coast last weekend thru this week. We were supposed to be having some time off at the family beach house in Topsail Island, NC. Some back of the envelope crisis planning indicated that we’d better hunker down here in the Keys. However, our youngest daughter, call sign DEMON SEED, was flying in on Saturday with three girlfriends to have a lovely week at the beach. I’ve known these kids for years, love ’em all, even Demon Seed. So, I went ahead and flew out to make sure they were good to go during the storm. And to rent a car for them, since if you’re under 25, you may as well buy a Rolls as rent a car.
I transited Ft. Lauderdale Airport, to Charlotte, to Wilmington. As usual, I spent most of my time watching people, not my phone.
Whether you believe in masks, this whole “mask up” situation is useless.
More than half the people I saw had their mask pulled down below their nose, so they could, I dunno, breath.
You don’t have to wear a mask when eating or drinking, so if I’m just sitting in a seat, reading my kindle, my mask must be on. But if I’m eating a grinder from Jersey Mike’s I just take the mask off. No problem, no violation of “the rules.” Hello? Do y’all not know how transmission works? “Y’all” being the powers that be that wrote these ridiculous rules.
Many people pulled their masks down to their chin in order to be better understood on their phone–while they were walking through the terminal.
I saw a group of stewardesses meet in the middle of one of the terminals I was in. All were masked, but big hugs and air kisses and “I haven’t seen you in so long” s. Mm-hmm. Safety first, ladies.
Encouragingly, I didn’t see any babies or toddlers wearing masks. Hopefully, some parents have done the reading.
“Social distancing” is a joke. Despite whatever markers on the floor, it seemed to me that the Great American Public has decided that, in a crowded airport line for Burger King, Einstein Brothers Bagels, or Jersey Mike’s, the appropriate social distance is about 10 to 15 inches more than what most Americans consider personal space.
Once one sat down to wait at one’s gate, there didn’t seem to be a problem with just taking one’s mask off, eating/drinking, or not. Saw all kinds of Joe Biden “just let the mask flutter off one ear” practitioners.
As stated, I think this whole “wear a mask” phenomena is a scam, a hoax, a grift. Have you seen our precious mainstream media pushing out tech-specs for masks that will actually protect you or protect others from you? Me neither. The number of people walking around with pull up neck gators that just make them look like a circumcision gone wrong, but do nothing to protect those they come in contact with, was legion.
[At this point, I should note that we rode out the hurricane with no problems. At/about 2200 we started to experience hurricane storm effects. I had to sign off of the AMU and make sure the girls were good to go. Of course, they were. They had decided to play various and sundry drinking games thru the storm. I, of course, am way to mature and responsible to join in on that sort of sport drinking…not.]
Seeing what a sham all this mask-wearing and social distancing is had me on a slow boil. This is idiocy at a grand strategy level.
The American Airline’s warning pronouncements only served to stoke the fire. “Your nose and mouth must be covered except for approved activities. Failure to follow these instructions could lead to you not taking this flight, or future flights, on this airline.” Thanks, sphincter notches.
I got first-class, round-trip tickets for a great price. Of course, once I was told that “all food and drink services are suspended” I figured out why I got such a great price (full disclosure, TL&TMM got my tickets, I suck at that kind of thing and never really think about using mileage points to better my in-flight experience). Still, the bigger, wider seat was nice. Although, the fact that a drink cart would not be slamming into my shoulder due to the suspension of services mooted the win, a little.
[The announcements about the suspension of services included declarations at the gate that stated that if you wanted food or drink during the flight, buy it in the terminal and carry it onboard your own self. But, according to federal regulations, alcohol not procured on the plane is not allowed. Demon Seed and her crew were having none of that. They boarded their flight with a plethora of jigger bottles stashed about themselves, plus Gator-Aid, Smart Water, and flavored nonalcoholic seltzer waters as mixers. I guess they got a wee rowdy. Once the stewardess’ figured it out, as the lovely ladies partied on, the stewardess would do a drive-by and confiscate their drinks. At which point the girls would check to make sure the coast was clear, and mix more drinks. Their uproarious enjoyment of the flight led to a young lady of commensurate age making snide comments that our little bevy of princesses were sure to hear, which led, apparently, to an epic “Hey, Karen, bite my tooshie” rant from one of the girls. I mentioned I love these kids, right?]
I was at a low, rolling boil by the time that I took my final flight from Charlotte to Ft. Lauderdale. Plus, I was also vexed with the knowledge that my bird landed at 1700, and then I had to drive from Ft. Lauderdale to the Keys. In my car. The car that doesn’t have air conditioning. If you haven’t done a drive like that in that kind of traffic, you don’t even want to know.
So, maybe I was brooding a little bit. Maybe my brow was furrowed and I was kind of grinding my teeth a little bit at what I’d seen of our current societal silliness and in anticipation of the vehicular gauntlet I was going to have to run to get home. Then that guy made an appearance.
I was sitting in the last row in first class. Across the aisle from me as a well built black guy who had the foresight to bring a sub sandwich on board, and the patience to stand in the (non-social distanced) line to get it. In the seat next to me on the window was an American Airlines pilot. Even in his mask, he looked pretty nebbish. He was carefully going through different airplane specs on his tablet, and making manual notes. I want that guy as my pilot.
My low boil got a spike. The guy in the first row of economy, across the aisle from me was a classic 305 area poseur. Masked, a white V-necked T-shirt, skinny jeans, some type of popular, white leather sneakers. Dude had that hairdo where the sides were clipped close, but the top was overlong and mega-gelled.
In a simpering voice that, 10-15 years ago would’ve meant that he was a very queenie homosexual, but these days just means that he’s a male of a certain age from a certain area, he FaceTimed a confederate.
“Well, they say there is a policy, but it’s, like, totally unenforced. Look, there’s someone without a mask, and there, too. Can you believe it? Oh no, I’m taking pictures and I’m documenting all of this.”
Okay. On the one hand, I get it. It’s kind of what I’ve been complaining about. The airline has a (useless) policy, the exceptions to policy are kind of nebulous.
On the other hand, this simpering, self-impressed, self-important git who has never done anything productive in his sorry life is delivering pronouncements on people that just want to get from point A to point B, and the airline that wants to facilitate that in the face of zero good decision-making data.
This little twinkleberry pushed all of my buttons, as I listened to his monologue. I counted to ten. I did my self-control (and tactical) breathing. Four-count in, four-count hold, four-count exhale.
The black guy with his grinder across the aisle was tensing up. The masked pilot next to me was obviously aware of and taking umbrage at this douche-canoe’s comments.
Okay, breathe again, man.
My fingers drummed on the armrest. I ran through courses of action and thought about the most likely outcomes and most dangerous outcomes and how to mitigate both (I’m such an Army geek). Also, Mongo has learned through trial and tragic error to lance the Rage Boil early. The more the tempests of temper build, the more likely that my chosen course of action will be inappropriate and excessive. I know that. Breathe 2-3-4, hold 2-3-4, exhale 2-3-4. Ahh. Calm. Nope.
I turned in my seat, pointed the blade hand at the masked pretty boy, and said, from the diaphragm with the blade hand-chopping to emphasize each word: You. Are. A. Wussy.
Of course, the word I used wasn’t wussy, but you get the idea. Twinkerbell put his phone down and looked away, not a peep from him the whole rest of the trip. Black dude with a sub gave me head chuck, the one that means not only do I agree with you, but I’m with you if there’s any fallout. The nebbish-y pilot dude got really into the specs displayed on his tablet.
The rest of the trip went fine. Even the traffic on the way home was good.
We need to end this mask/lockdown insanity.
It’s useless.
Published in General
I dissent. The dehumanizing effect of wearing masks in public is certainly not low cost, low risk. It’s a trade-off, and we’re not being allowed to assess it for ourselves, but are being dictated to by people who don’t know what they claim to know.
I think the costs are actually very, very steep.
Because of other Karens.
High cost? Vs how many deaths by not trying any mitigating steps? Vs what other mitigating steps? Life is choice-often you don’t get to choose between 2 different deserts- but you still have to choose- it is the burden of rational creatures. I don’t like the choices either but masks aren’t a hard call given the alternatives. As Reagan said “there are no easy answers, but there are simple answers”. So mask up, social distance, work like hell on a vaccine, antivirals, & synthetic antibodies. Some cry we have no guarantee of a vaccine, or antiviral, but we have no guarantee of anything in life (and specifically no guarantee of lasting herd immunity by allowing the disease to run its course-right thru the lives of our vulnerable population).
Afternoon MiMac,
What are you proposing is the purpose of mitigating steps? The largest group of deaths are in groups above 70, my wife and I are 72+, the largest fraction of this group is found in nursing or extended care. One is not usually in a nursing home or extended care unless one has other health factors. So isolating this group, or limiting or monitoring the exposure to this group is a reasonable mitigation. For the younger population mitigation is counter productive, we would like the part of the population for who the virus holds little consequence to get the virus and recover from it. In none of the countries that have already returned to school have we seen upticks as a consequence. The universal public health hysteria is not a benefit to our overall public health and has reinforced a level of fear in our population that is a harmful as the panic over vaccines.
I think this is the problem medical professionals have assessing risk for the rest of us. Being “on the front lines” keeps them from knowing what’s happening back at home: joblessness, fear of seeking medical screenings, increased addiction, domestic abuse, and suicide. You can’t know what the costs are for patients who don’t show up in your practice.
How long are we to “mitigate” the risks of a disease that is likely not going away and has a death rate in the neighborhood of 0.2%? Forever? We started out at two weeks of lockdown. Now it seems it’s forever. My response is, “Nuts!”
Masks & social distancing. Other steps are more problematic- such as isolating the vulnerable. Who are they. The majority of adult Americans have comorbidities- do we isolate them all as well? Are there no costs to imprisoning all the old folks? How do we “isolate” them? Do no young people work in nursing homes? What do we do with old people who are raising young people? Do they get a say or do we get to vote them off the island? What if they do not want to go into a lockdown reserved for the old? Do we abridge their constitutional rights? What is a greater threat to liberty, imprisoning old people or mandating masks? It is nice to offload one’s problems. Boy am I glad I have no comorbidities and am under 70! Many thoughtful publichealth physicians have already commented that the strategy of isolating the vulnerable has many problems- both practically and ethically. You can search the internet for their statements- try Scott Gottlieb.
which steps are good? isolation steps such as preventing the cross linking of facilities thru employees who work at multiple facilities is a good 1st step. Testing of staff & residents frequently and isolating positives. Frequent cleaning, modification of HVAC systems should occur. Those are easy 1st steps. But they don’t replace masks& social distancing
Masks alone are largely useless. Store employees cannot keep them on for 6-8 hours without cheating. If a mask does NOT make it hard to breathe when doing anything other than sitting, then it is probably not effective. I refuse to believe that extended time periods in enclosed, air-conditioned spaces can be made safe by means of a cloth mask. As an additive in the context of a lockdown, if nothing else, a mask can be a reminder of a lockdown being in place.
Keep an eye on Denmark, German schools, and Sweden where mask-wearing is in decline, gone, or was always voluntary. I dare anybody to come up with statistical proof that masks have made a difference in jurisdictions with the most aggressive mandates.
What is maddening is that hardening the defenses around the vulnerable should be done regardless of whether there are feasible restrictions on the young and healthy. The bug is already out there. Widely. The myth that by skipping the beach or wearing a mask for part of the time in a bar/restaurant means that you are somehow saving Grandma is blazingly stupid. Facetime with Granny in her sterile bunker and go back to work or school. Gratuitous touches like masks or being 6 feet away when you happen to be thinking about it accomplish nothing substantive. (Metric system countries do social distance at 1.5 meters or only 5 feet instead of the American 6-foot measure. Do they have 15% more infections?)
The need to accommodate the mask requirement and the concomitant social distancing regime make some businesses hard or impossible to operate and the sheer abnormality of this requirement combines with the strong suspicion that it is useless takes a heavy psychological toll. It is not a small cost. And it purchases nothing.
Ii am wondering how it is that one of the biggest campaigns I have ever noticed throughout my life resulted in no current awareness. Ever since my childhood, during April, our nation reminds us to “Never Forget.”
Now we have an illness that in reality, wherever a nation has officials encouraging the use of remedies, the actual fatality rate is 4 cases out of every 100,000.
Yet on account of COVID, we are made to feel unclean and diseased… Maybe none of this could have happened until the older generation passed away. Because most of them were well aware that the idea a yellow star on a lapel informed others that here was a person “who was riddled with disease” from scabies to more sinister diseases. So we now wear masks to remind each other of our innate uncleanliness.
Our masks are more a psych op than a health measure. Virologists who are old school know that a disease of the corona variety is strongest when first out and about infecting people. Then the virus weakens. And in summer, with warm weather, old school virologists felt that was the best time to have the virus, as it would be at its weakest and then would through antibodies offer immunity for the rest of a person’s life against that specific illness.
NO YOU PROVIDE THE LINK!!!
Your the one who keeps quoting something and demanding we do the work.
You do your due diligence. Its not my job to do your work for you. You have a quote then its on you to provide it.
Your upset that you provided bad information. Someone read it and then quoted your own article against you. Then you say we now have to read another article you dont provide.
I think you have lost the trust everyone on this thread, like Fauci.
2)If you are going to defy people to produce data perhaps you should try to learn about the issues. The data is easily obtainable on droplet transmission vs distance-perhaps you should educate yourself rather than posting in ignorance. (FYI- the difference between 1.5m and 6 feet is negligible- both mainly chosen b/c they are easy to remember).
3)Nice of you to volunteer placing granny in the sterile bunker. Perhaps she demurs more strongly on that point than you do on mask wearing? Should she be penalized? Perhaps we should have the same penalty-neither of you gets care for a COVID infection if you refuse to follow recommendations(Masks or bunkers)?
and for the 100th time masks aren’t “nearly useless”- produce some data. The best data supports the effectiveness of masks. If you get an article please read it to be sure it actually comports to the situation- effectiveness of masks in reducing the spread of a coronavirus in the community. Not flu in the hospital, not the opinions of 2 unlicensed doc-in-a-box owners from the valley, not the report of a paid schill of the Canadian trail lawyers who is a physicist and can’t bother to read the articles he cites etc (I name these b/c they are the kind of article posted here to try to back up the uselessness of masks-but it is the articles that are useless if you read them). I do not quote modeling studies b/c they are all over the place b/c the results greatly depend on the assumptions made when creating the model-GIGO.
The 1st line is:
“We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)1 as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less.“
the last line:
We therefore strongly support the calls of public health agencies for all people to wear masks when circumstances compel them to be within 6 ft of others for sustained periods.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836
I didn’t post a link b/c this VERY point has been debated more than once on Ricochet-and every time those who are anti-mask wrongly quote the authors of the article. This isn’t my opinion-it is the opinion of the AUTHORS.
you think I have lost trust -I think you owe an apology….
In addition to @oldbathos remarks, it is common knowledge or at least it was, that things like isolation, quarantine, anti social distancing and mask wearing are worth undertaking in the early days and weeks of an illness. Here in Calif, no one in my county was chided about not wearing a mask until June 20th or so. By then we were at least 145 days into the infection. It is known that at least 11 to 20 percent of the population is infected.
So according to what old school virologists were taught, none of these measures make sense.
Except from the perspective of the following:
1: A massive nationwide psych op
2: The psych op reinforces the idea there are two groups: the “good citizens” who are malleable and are needed to whip the rest of us into line, and the non conforming “bad citizens”
3: Since we are now so overly repressed that we are in a state of “soft” martial law, this makes people eager to submit to the coming vaccine. Today the CDC is stating the “second wave of COVID” will most likely unleash massive numbers of paralyzed and semi-paralyzed Guillan Barre cases, so it is obvious the measures against our day to day liberties must be made even more extreme. Too many of us realize Guillan Barre is not a corona virus side effect, but rather a vaccine side effect. (Which I suffered after the 1970’s flu vaccine.)
GB syndrome occurs following viruses AND can occur after vaccines. I have seen both. Had an associate who got it after a virus-scary. Those who remember the swine flu scare back in 1976 (H1N1 in modern parlance) will remember that there was a crash, nationwide, vaccine campaign and regrettably the flu vaccine used caused an unusually high rate of Guillan Barre syndrome.
Convenient for you to ignore that the grannies are having mini strokes from mask wearing. GF over 70 wore one last week at her daughter’s insistence. She experienced a mini stroke and will be facing a lifetime impaired by damage to her eyes from that stroke. Younger workers engaged in strenuous tasks are having collapsed lungs.
Denmark does not have a mask requirement because the health authorities there (a) could not find any evidence they are worth it as a policy and (b) masks also generate false confidence in that people think they comprise protection such that distancing etc is no longer required. And they could have added (c) there is no way to keep from touching the damn things.
Notice, it is not about whether your mask catches droplets. (Although, I have seen some masks out there that would barely contain a loogie much less a virus.) If life consisted of avoiding infected droplets within 3 feet, and if that were the principal or sole vector of transmission, and the only circumstance in which we would encounter the bug, then by golly, quality masks are the key. If on the other hand, droplets are not the only or even the biggest danger since they fall to the floor and the real worry is longer-term free-floating viruses circulated by A/C (depending on which expert in which week we consult–and remember viral load? Whatever happened to that?), then masks that are not full-on N95’s worn professionally are not so effective. If we are only in danger 15 minutes a day from straight-on droplets, then yea masks! If we have to pretend to wear them 6-8 hours a day indoors, all of the studies of immediate protective effectiveness of masks go out the window.
Our experts still do not know what is the dominant form of transmission. It used to include infected surfaces but I gather that is no longer au courant. The droplets versus free-floating particles versus cumulative load..who the hell knows?
Lastly, Dr. Fauci kast week brought up one of the earlier reasons for the limits of masks–the mucosal tissues of eyeballs–remember that one back in March? You silly laymen, you rubes don’t need masks, hell you can get it through your eyeballs.
And you appear to miss the point about Granny’s metaphoric bunker. She should be in a protected mode regardless of which ineffective control policy we select. If we built safe zones for the vulnerable, it then might even be more prudent to let the outside world full of not-at-serious-risk persons to get infected and go for quick herd immunity instead of pretending to flatten the curve for another six months with very marginal measures while Granny dies from isolation depression.
Like Denmark (and German schools and Sweden) I don’t think masks as a sustained general policy are worth it. In a controlled environment as part of a more comprehensive protocol (like a surgical suite), they obviously do. Speaking of which, many years ago in the Army as a med lab guy, I often used to have to culture post-op surgical incisions to make sure they were sterile immediately afterward. Sometimes they were not, despite all that effort and masks. If the masks don’t always stop bacteria then they sure as hell don’t stop viruses, hence my ingrained bias on the issue.
See, @mimac, this is where you lose me. You appeal to rationality a coupla/three times in your comments.
First, it kinda sounds like you’re handing down pronouncements from on high. Not a good thing, hermano. Then you upbraid @LoisLane for quoting experts and taking at face value their statements. Then state that the authors re-published because people were taking their words at face value.
You see how that gets to the nut of my exacerbation?
Finally, you throw the “you’re not rational” accusation around three or four times in this thread. It degrades your ability to argue effectively.
I’ve spent a lifetime betting my life, and more importantly, the lives of my subordinates on my ability to rationally analyze a situation. Since the first Gulf War, I’ve internalized the fact that the real world doesn’t care about what I hope the situation is, what I want the situation to be, or that it matters a whit what I think things ought to be.
I’m still here, and I’ve never lost a troop. My self assessment is that I’m pretty darn rational. So just assume that I (and the other commenters) are arguing in good faith, and are looking at all the data we can and making rational conclusions–regardless of what we “want” to see.
I took a few minutes and read (reread, in the case of the May 21, 2020 piece) both articles/opinion pieces/whatever.
It’s clear that the May 21st article is talking about masking in health-care facilities, not the wider community. Hell, the piece is titled “Universal Masking in Hospitals in the Covid-19 Era.” After discussing certain scenarios in hospitals, etc., the authors state, “The extent of marginal benefit of universal masking over and above these foundational measures is debatable. ”
Then their response is titled: “Universal Masking in the Covid-19 Era.” I note that they (or, to be fair, the editors) dropped the phrase “in Hospitals” from the title. I also note that the original piece gave a definition of “sustained periods”: “…a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes).” The authors do not give that definition in their response.
This is not what governments and businesses are mandating. If I go in to a stop-and-rob for a soda and chips, I’m not going to be there for 5 minutes. Heck, if I go into a supermarket for the weekly grocery run, I’m not going to be in a face-to-face contact with any particular person for 10 minutes, not even the cashier.
Then they’re really, really, really bad writers to include in the articles lines like the ones previously quoted:
One more point about the two articles/pieces: It appears the first article was published on 1 April 2020*, and the follow-up on 3 June 2020. It sure looks like the follow-up was written to reflect the “revised guidance” from the CDC, et. al., that masks need to be worn by everyone everywhere. I’m not saying that’s actually what happened, but it sure does have an odor about it.
*From the letter to the editor: “We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org) as support for discrediting widespread masking.”
“Mostly because it discredited widespread masking. We apologize if anyone took it to mean exactly what it said, and our re-published work hews faithfully to the party line.”
Old Bathos- the mask issue partly depends on wether the virus is spread mainly thru droplets or is truly aersolized ( think measles). If droplet, than masks and social distancing and hand washing should be effective-(https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext). But if really aersolized (like measles) masks are less effective (BUT NOT WORTHLESS-https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/). But it isn’t either or-both modes of transmission could possibly occur. A majority of infectious disease experts are leaning on a mainly droplet spread b/c otherwise we would have suffered a bigger outbreak by now. The fact that there are numerous cases where household contacts didn’t get infected also leans away from aerosols. But the so-called super spreading events maybe b/c aerosolized spread may occur under the proper circumstances-singing, coughing and bad ventilation etc ( think a loud bar). Aerosolized spread makes masks less effective unless they are properly fitted N95 or better masks- plus the aerosol can linger for hours or be spread by the HVAC system to others farther afield.
See, that’s good gouge, right there.
Thanks for posting the article, @mimac. I also read it in full.
As @danok1 also says, they then talk about sustained contact in the new article, which is a hazard for infection, and is mitigated by masking.
However, the thing that most caught my attention was this sentence: “A growing body of research shows that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission is strongly correlated with the duration and intensity of contact: the risk of transmission among household members can be as high as 40%, whereas the risk of transmission from less intense and less sustained encounters is below 5%.”
Follow me here. If I am out in public, I might wear a mask–as these authors advocate I do–to mitigate transmission to people with whom I have passing contact like in a grocery store since I might be asymptomatic. Everyone’s transmission risk is 5% unmasked (I think). However, if I go home to my family with whom I will speak/play/eat/sleep, my risk multiplies by 8.
If I accept the 5% risk is unacceptable, wouldn’t that mean that I should wear a mask in my home to stop spread? All the time? Wouldn’t that be the most rational action? Yet… is that really rational?
Btw, while I don’t like wearing masks and find some of these mandates to be really exasperating, when I visit my parents who are in their seventies, we sit on their back porch and talk from a distance. This makes a ton of sense to me, especially since my father has cancer and is in a very high risk group. While I have finally gotten to a point where I hug my mother goodbye, I normally tap my dad’s foot. When we do go inside–sometimes it’s blazing hot in Texas–we sit on couches that are not 6 feet apart but at least 10 feet apart.
I worry all the time about the super high risk population in our country. I am giving a Zoom lecture to people who are isolated in a retirement home next week. (This makes sense to do at a distance, too, though I’d go back into a classroom in a New York second if I could to lecture my normal 18 year olds.)
In truth, while it made getting my hair done much less pleasant, the utility of the mask per the criteria laid out above isn’t as hard of a sale as wearing masks in other settings either….
I sincerely think all of us here believe in science. We are simply calculating the risks differently. This is not a reason for people to beat each other up. I raise a cyber beer to all! :)
Also, thanks @bossmongo. I blush when I’m defended! You get bourbon!
My point is since you claim all those whose opinions differ from yours can’t be trusted haven’t you created an enclosed system where you cannot be reasoned with? I agree many federal public health officials shamefully mislead the American people in an attempt to preserve the PPE supply but that doesn’t mean that therefore all data supporting mask use can be discarded. The best data is several years old anyway (not enough time to get new data). Experts are not to be taken simply at face value-unless you have good reason to trust them- hence my admonition to read the articles quoted carefully. We have a crisis of our elites-they have not served us well ( they may have served themselves well). That is why I stress the data we have available and it supports masks- it doesn’t support low risk from BLM protests or that churches are more dangerous than Walmart. But it is difficult for laymen to look at medical studies- perhaps that is why I (unfortunately) appear to be “handing down”. My best advice is find a conservative medical type you trust and see what they think- if it is reasonable in your experience go with it. There is a lot of politically spun science out there- I just want those on the right not to spin the data on masks-a) b/c the data supports it & b) b/c I hate it when we sound like the left! I fear prolonged problems with the virus will only help the left b/c a bad economy helps Biden and the left never lets a crisis go to waste. I want us to reopen as much as possible and masks are our best weapon to do so.
How can you be sure you will only be there for a couple of minutes? How can you be sure to stay ~6ft apart? ( How can the store know if you are going to be there only a couple of minutes?) Don’t we have seatbelts and airbags? Small price to pay to reopen the economy-which is absolutely critical.
Went to pick a friend up from rehab. The staff their are required to wear face masks, goggles and face shields as well as their scrubs and some sort of rain coat looking thing. They looked like aliens.
It’s pretty easy to avoid people in a grocery store, even if one lingers for half a minute when carts get tangled up by the soup cans.
That said, I think you have a good point when it comes to crowded bars where people stand around and talk to each other while nursing a drink.
I also “get” wearing a mask while in a salon chair. It takes forever to color my hair. Okay. Fair enough. That’s sustained contact.
Whoa, hold on night ranger. Whether someone differs in opinion means nothing to my analytics. I stated that all those who have lied to me can’t be trusted. And, if someone who lied to me comes forward with “No, this time the policy is good, very good, so much better” then I’ll look at the data.
My system is pretty darn open, which may well be why we are at loggerheads. I suffer suspicion and skepticism if scientists say “A = B” in march and then a month or so later put out, “Oh, we never meant for you to think that A actually equals B.”
No. But I submit it does mean we need to scrutinize data from liars harder. And the burden of proof is mostly on them to make the effort, not me.
Concur. Wholeheartedly.
Again, totally concur.
Now, see, this is the best argument I’ve seen. Whether the masks are effective or not, if we use them as the lever to reopen our economy and get America back to work, I’m all in, whatever the medical efficacy of masks are. That said, I fully expects that if America masks up, we will see more roadblocks, in the vein of “yeah, but” thrown in the way.
We agree on this being absolutely critical. But there are places in the country where masking is the mandate, and citizens are still in lockdown.
Also, I think that most of us commenting here will wear our masks into businesses as asked, even though we aren’t happy about it.