Reality?

 

I once worked for a prestigious international firm as a consultant, operating mostly out of a local office on the west coast of the United States. The partner who led the group was a geeky and introverted man who preferred to hide in his office playing solitaire rather than engage in the dreaded social mores of office politics. He didn’t think anyone was aware of what he was doing, but as anyone who walked by his office knew, it was impossible to miss the window’s reflection of the game on his computer screen. He was my boss and I didn’t want to embarrass him, so I never said anything. He had one book on his shelf: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I assumed he was a thinker.

At the time, I was under the mentorship of a seminary student with a huge ego and an inexhaustible drive to teach. Under his tutelage, The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker, winner of a Pulitzer Prize, was one of the first books I read. After noticing Zen on my boss’s shelf, I thought he might be interested in Becker’s work, and I offered to loan him my copy of the book. He took it.

Two days later he walked into my office with a huge smile and asked, “Where did you find this?”

I told him.

He frowned. “How can you possibly believe that stuff?” he asked.

“That stuff” … meaning Christianity.

I understood. He found it incredible that an intellectual such as myself would believe that anything could exist outside the domain of causality, or transcend the space-time continuum. It didn’t make sense to him, just as his more limited view of reality didn’t answer most of my questions. 

I suppose some people seek to master finite domains of knowledge while others enthusiastically pursue the infinite.

You see, his assumption that truth is contained in man-comprehensible limits, such as natural law and the scientific restriction of causality, does not explain why I and many others suddenly know things or see things through a series of one or more independent incidents that, when combined, contain meaning. I call them themes. Carl Jung calls the phenomenon “synchronicity.”

My conversion to Christianity (occurring in a solitary moment when a light pierced the veil of my circumstances) transferred me out of a darkness always closing in, and into an open-air of no restrictive form. I had a vague idea of what had happened and decided to go to a church, a compulsion that instantly took me.  

I happened to be friends with someone who also experienced themes, which, as I later learned, was an unusual dose of grace. Being new to the faith, I assumed my friend was representative of Christians who, of course, were cognizant of the ever-present and broader reality that exists beyond the obvious limits of natural law. After all, wasn’t it obvious?  

I realize now that I was fortunate to have found a friend who’d had similar experiences and therefore shared a mutual curiosity and perspective. Since we’ve parted ways, I’ve yet to find another kindred spirit. Sure, there are authors here and there who have written about the acausal⁠1 nature of the Kingdom of God, but most of them are not interested in hanging out with me to talk Spirit movements over a glass of red wine. I’m a nobody, and that’s how things work in the temporal. 

It took nearly a decade to resign all hopes for more. The church’s stodgy entrenchment in programmatic logistics and managing mismatched volunteers bores me. That’s not a boast; it’s a confession. The church is laced with politics that should be beneath sustaining an awareness and homage to the transcendent reality. But then … that’s the point, right? Christ, God in the flesh, came to close the gap between how we really are and what we were meant to be. He did it by paying the price for our fallings-short of the glory of God. He took the hit, his death an all-encompassing act of forgiveness. And I should remember this when I start grousing about the small-picture-short-term-focus of the leaders, the cliques of the congregations, the judgments of the church ladies, and the boundaries set to contain the voices of smart women. 

I am no longer searching, only keeping my eye out, for one or two spirit-surrendered leaders willing to risk their reputations and “careers” for the cause of Christ, and the wonder of pursuing the infinite. Why? Because if we want to hear God, to see Him move in our world, to be living within the purpose for which He has made us, we must be receptive. If we only seek to build a personal mastery over the theological precepts of our particular denomination, which is a huge domain of worthwhile knowledge to master, we’re still missing it.

Here is my favorite passage of scripture. The reason should be obvious.

Colossians 1:15-20: 

The⁠2 Preeminence of Christ 

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Is this a metaphor? And if so, what difference does that distinction actually make? Even as a metaphor, what does this mean? What would a scientist say about this? Would he or she say this is poetry? If poetry, what does it mean? 

To me, this isn’t just a nice word picture. This is reality. And it doesn’t fit the scientific method of inquiry. 

Let me bring you up to speed with a Cliff Notes explanation of how we got here and why I choose to venture into this ethereal space. 

Months ago now, I had an idea that I should write on the topic of Purpose. I wanted to bring out what I’d remembered about artists and innovative people in general, something about needing to express themselves through their art lest they fall into despair. And how, if you require individuals to conform to a repressive collective ideology, they will squander their creative potential, and we will lose their contributions to the beauty and prosperity of our world. I remembered that I’d run across the idea about artistic expression in the early 1980s while reading The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. So I dug it out.

I reread the entire work. I never did find the exact quote about the artist, but I found myself looking into and refreshing my knowledge about the various psychoanalytical theories Becker examines in the book. He spent considerable effort on Freud and Jung, two contemporaries who had been colleagues until Jung stepped out of Freud’s confined scope of oedipal-centric analysis and had the audacity to include religion in his own journey of discovery. 

Inspired by Jung’s work, my curiosity took me to following random clues. I began gobbling up a feast of endless links to books and wiki postings, finding myself walking unplanned paths off to the right, left, up, and down. It was like an adventure into an unknown land where what I stumbled upon in one moment would return later as a meaningful part of an entirely different excavation. 

For example, about three weeks ago I ordered a book entitled Judgment Over Time: The Interaction of Thoughts, Feelings, and Behaviors. The book was for a nonfiction book project I was working on at the time. I hadn’t had time to read it, nor had I given it a second thought. But soon, I felt the need for a break from the intensity of hopping from link to link, downloading and reading sample books, and watching documentaries. I found a comfy chair, opened the Judgment book, and began reading. 

From page 4:

Psychologists⁠3 have also embraced the importance of time in their theorizing … It is interesting that issues of time have played a role within several major schools of psychological thought. For example, psychodynamic theorists such as Freud (1823/1962) argued that transformations between primary and secondary processes transpire over time. Jung (1951/1981, 1952/1973) incorporated temporal notions such as the collective unconscious and synchronicity into his theorizing …

Both of these topics, the collective unconscious and synchronicity had been playing two of the three lead roles in all of the research I’d waded through to date. I could not have known nor did I expect to stumble upon this reference, something otherwise obscure and meaningless to me had I not followed the bread crumbs scattered by Ernest Becker. 

At this point, there is no turning back. These acausal incidents of discovery combined to introduce significant meaning tell me one thing:

Keep going.

I won’t go further into the details about how I found Jung’s book Synchronicity⁠4, yet it is a gripping read. If you venture to read it yourself, you’ll know two things. First, that I’m a geek and it’s no wonder I have zero social skills. And second, there seems to be something guiding us, reaching into our temporal existence from outside of our personal consciousness, dropping bread crumbs on the path just ahead. Could it be that the phenomena of synchronicity is really someone tapping our shoulder, trying to get our attention, and guide us to a secret destination that’s not of our conscious choosing? Who might that be? 

I felt like my head might explode … I needed to know more. 

Jung describes what he observed while working with Joseph Banks Rhine to analyze and interpret the results of several ESP experiments involving simple playing cards. 

This (the correct identification of the face value of a card) possibility presents itself when the psyche observes, not external bodies, but itself. That is precisely what happens in Rhine’s experiments: the subject’s answer is not the result of his observing the physical cards, it is a product of pure imagination, of “chance” ideas which reveal the structure of that which produces them, namely the unconscious.

Here I will only point out that it is the decisive factors in the unconscious psyche, the archetypes, which constitute the structure of the collective unconscious. The latter (collective unconscious) represents a psyche that is identical in all individuals. It cannot be directly perceived or “represented,” in contrast to the perceptible psychic phenomena …

This was a clue to something infinitely more capable than only allowing an individual to consistently beat the odds when guessing the face value of a playing card held by someone on the other side of the globe. Jung realized that incidents of synchronicity or symbolic parallels are impossible to explain “without the hypothesis of the collective unconscious.”

Meaningful⁠5 coincidences—which are to be distinguished from meaningless chance groupings—therefore seem to rest on an archetypal foundation.

This is where five years of sitting in the back garden have given me a greater education than five years of sitting in a classroom desk chair under the tutelage of a seminary professor (although that was a great experience too). 

I have spent hour upon hour over 30 years thinking about Colossians 1: 15-20, trying to see it in my mind, to make sense of how it could be that he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. What does it mean that he is the first among all creation and that all things created on earth and in heaven were created by Him, through Him, and for Him? 

I’ve always held these verses more tightly and deeply than any others (even Romans 8:28), as if the words were the golden ticket to greater understanding. I didn’t know why … not consciously. 

All this time my real question has been ‘does this Christ … 

  • this Christ who is the image of the invisible God, 
  • the preeminent of all creation, 
  • the creator of all things in heaven and on earth both visible and invisible, 
  • the one who is before all things and yet holds all things together within himself, 
  • the one who contains the indwelling fullness of God, and 
  • through whom all things in heaven and on the earth are reconciled to himself, making peace by the good of his cross 

… manifest in the temporal?’

Do you see that we view ourselves as sequestered in our daily routines away from his presently speaking existence? And that we assume that the only time he speaks and draws near is when we decide to approach him in prayer?

Something to think about. 

I believe there’s a connection … more than a connection … between Christ as painted in Colossians and the discoveries/theories of Jung. Jung was on to something divinely inspired, and all the bread crumbs I’ve followed so far, including an intriguing documentary (David Bohm – Infinite Potential) demand that I continue down the path. My mind has been inundated by a constant swirl of implications, connecting dots that only take me further into something deep, mysterious, and infinite. I was trying to describe to my husband what I vaguely see, and failing miserably when I stumbled upon one line that says it all.  

I live my life in ever-increasing circles 

that stretch across all things. 

Rainer Maria Rilke

I will continue with a deeper look at the phenomenon of Synchronicity and then start retracing Jung’s footsteps to the theory of a collective unconscious containing common archetypes that are universal for everyone. 

Where will this take me? I have no idea, but I am free to go and feel beckoned to do so.

For those of you who are reading this as a post, this is chapter 2 of a new book. The next three chapters of the book will tackle these topics in an order that means nothing, except it’s the order that the breadcrumbs have been served to me along the path. And it could be a while before you hear back from me.

anImage_11.tiff

1 We shall naturally look round in vain in the macrophysical world for acausal events, for the simple reason that we cannot imagine events that are connected non-causally and are capable of a non-causal explanation. But that does not mean that such events do not exist. Their existence—or at least their possibility—follows logically from the premise of statistical truth. The experimental method of inquiry aims at establishing regular events that can be repeated. Consequently, unique or rare events are ruled out of account.

Jung, C. G.. Synchronicity (Bollingen Series XX: The Collected Works of C. G. Jung, Volume 8) (pp. 5-6). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.

2 Crossway Bibles. The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (with Cross-References) (Kindle Locations 189692-189714). Good News Publishers/Crossway Books. Kindle Edition.

3 Sanna, Lawrence J., Chang, Edward C., (2006). Judgment Over Time: The Interaction of Thoughts, Feelings, and Behaviors, page 4.

4 SYNCHRONICITY An Acausal Connecting Principle C. G. Jung

Jung, C. G.. Synchronicity (Bollingen Series XX: The Collected Works of C. G. Jung, Volume 8) (p. iii). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.

5 Jung, C. G.. Synchronicity (Bollingen Series XX: The Collected Works of C. G. Jung, Volume 8) (p. 24). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.

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  1. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    That’s good stuff, and you’re right about people who don’t mind doesn’t work like the typical mind have a hard time connecting to churches that are geared for normal minds.

    And the people who want to rail about there being no science to back up metaphysical claims forget that the scientific method was expressly developed to work beneath the metaphysical.  Their objection is circular.

    And Hebrews talks about Him upholding all things by the Word of His power.  In my own imagination, when He spoke the universe into existence ex nihilo it was a very complicated statement, at least to us, at least the math behind the physical laws.  He had to come up with e and π and so many other transcendental numbers and functions.  But maybe to Him that’s all very simple.

    And since all the physical universe is just a bunch of waves, and there is nothing solid about it all, He could probably just change e to 3 instead of 2.718…, and the whole thing would collapse.

    But that’s just my imagination.

    So God created the universe, gave it humankind who gave it away by treachery and disobedience, and God Himself wrapped Himself in a human body to buy it all back, and give humankind what He had in mind when He made it all.

    Hallelujah!

    Be anointed by the Spirit in your seeking and writing of Him of whom there is no equal, no other, in Jesus name!

    • #1
  2. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc.   It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.  

    • #2
  3. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    … manifest in the temporal?’

    Short answer – yes. That is why grace is so amazing. I like this discussion, but I’m glad that Christ put the cookie jar on the low shelf for people like me. I can’t help but think what a wonderful time you and C.S Lewis could have had discussing all of this.

    • #3
  4. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    JoelB (View Comment):

    … manifest in the temporal?’

    Short answer – yes. That is why grace is so amazing. I like this discussion, but I’m glad that Christ put the cookie jar on the low shelf for people like me. I can’t help but think what a wonderful time you and C.S Lewis could have had discussing all of this.

    Fresh air! fresh air! … C.S.Lewis … my inspiration for even considering the attempt! Thank you JoelB. 

    • #4
  5. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Arvo (View Comment):

    That’s good stuff, and you’re right about people who don’t mind doesn’t work like the typical mind have a hard time connecting to churches that are geared for normal minds.

    And the people who want to rail about there being no science to back up metaphysical claims forget that the scientific method was expressly developed to work beneath the metaphysical. Their objection is circular.

    And Hebrews talks about Him upholding all things by the Word of His power. In my own imagination, when He spoke the universe into existence ex nihilo it was a very complicated statement, at least to us, at least the math behind the physical laws. He had to come up with e and π and so many other transcendental numbers and functions. But maybe to Him that’s all very simple.

    And since all the physical universe is just a bunch of waves, and there is nothing solid about it all, He could probably just change e to 3 instead of 2.718…, and the whole thing would collapse.

    But that’s just my imagination.

    So God created the universe, gave it humankind who gave it away by treachery and disobedience, and God Himself wrapped Himself in a human body to buy it all back, and give humankind what He had in mind when He made it all.

    Hallelujah!

    Be anointed by the Spirit in your seeking and writing of Him of whom there is no equal, no other, in Jesus name!

    Oh gosh, there are so many dots in scripture … dots to connect. It’s so good to read your comment … a like-seeing compadre. And yes, I think you’re right about changing e to 3. I only hope He chooses another option that’s sitting outside of our limited capacity of innovation. He knows of our struggle now. I wait for His grandest entrance into the temporal.

    You might be interested in reading about Wolfgang Pauli – he was a theoretical physicist who went for treatment and then worked with Jung on sussing out synchronicity. He was also responsible for developing the theory of quantum mechanics and deriving the observed spectrum of the hydrogen bomb. Anyway, as you can see, I can’t stop!

    • #5
  6. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Me too. I think they do know, but, as it is with all of us to one degree or another, we fight against surrendering to God and trusting Him with the great unknown. Pride, need for control, disillusionment with religion, etc. We all know … it’s just whether we choose to repress it or not. 

    That’s my theory and I’m sticking with it. :)

    • #6
  7. dajoho Member
    dajoho
    @dajoho

    Wow – nicely done.  One of my favorites:

    “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
    ― Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

    • #7
  8. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Crystals, pyramids, et al make no demands. So much easier to follow and discard. 

    • #8
  9. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Andrew Klavan talked about temporal being something that is comfortable for us, but that G-d exists outside of temporal.

    So that makes sense about the bread crumbs being dropped. It is for us to make note of things, patterns, connections, and be guided, as part of our journey. Life is the journey.

    We make music, it is all patterns bound in the temporal, that I believe are bread crumbs for our spirit.

    I think of that verse

    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

    I Corinthians 11- 12

    We can’t quite comprehend G-d, but when face to face we will know. All of the patterns, pieces and crumbs will come together, fit together in ways we can’t imagine.

    • #9
  10. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    And think of the story of Joseph, him being beaten, and sold to slavery, then raised high, to rescue his family from Famine, and preserve the nation of Israel, and the 12 tribes, then all of the prophecy, fulfilled. 

    Breadcrumbs. 

    Those with ears to hear, and eyes to see…

    • #10
  11. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Wow! This is good stuff!! Are you new here?? I have to go make dinner…..but I’ll be right back – hold that thought!

    • #11
  12. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    dajoho (View Comment):

    Wow – nicely done. One of my favorites:

    “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
    ― Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

    That’s very very good. I think you might like this … I keep a journal of random notes, and on 6-23 I wrote “The Brink.” I had to go back to find what prompted it. Here is the excerpt:

    Out of the ruins of the broken cultural self there remains the mystery of the private, invisible, inner self which yearned for ultimate significance, for cosmic heroism. This invisible mystery at the heart of every creature now attains cosmic significance by affirming its connection with the invisible mystery at the heart of creation. This is the meaning of faith. At the same time it is the meaning of the merger of psychology and religion in Kierkegaard’s thought. The truly open person, the one who has shed his character armor, the vital lie of his cultural conditioning, is beyond the help of any mere “science,” of any merely social standard of health. He is absolutely alone and trembling on the brink of oblivion—which is at the same time the brink of infinity. To give him the new support that he needs, the “courage to renounce dread without any dread… only faith is capable of,” says Kierkegaard.

    Becker, Ernest. The Denial of Death (p. 91). Free Press. Kindle Edition.

    • #12
  13. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Ok I’m back. You remind me of me in my twenties. I majored in psychology, minored in philosophy. I do not have a degree, but back then I was totally New Age. I drove my sister crazy. I had a boyfriend back then whose sister in law and I frequented new age book stores. I was raised a Christian but I was too “enlightened” for the traditional version. Fast forward decades of drifting here and there, then multiple simultaneous major life crises left me with my new age teachings that I could not recall in those moments. It’s like they evaporated into thin air, all the books I read and “knowledge” I thought I had…… There was nothing when I needed something.  I prayed in desperation in the hospital, where I landed with a serious, undiagnosed medical issue…Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! – get me out of here and I’ll change my ways! I did get out and I began a journey back to traditional faith.  That led to a vague scenario of what Ricochet Editor in Chief @jongabriel is writing about in his conversion series – go back and read them all.

    I am in the process after decades of coming full circle…….and like you, am soaking up the real McCoy – no nonsense.  I’m too old for nonsense at this point. In this new virtual reality, I have been privileged to tune into various services.  I want to share with you two.  One is Catholic services at our local St. Rita’s – a church I have been wanting to join. The second is my sister’s pastor – this is a country mountain town in Maryland. I started tuning in because my sister bugged me about getting back to church and I can tune in to her little church. Her pastor is interesting – I read his bio. His parents both worked for the NSA! He nails it – he’s funny, loves to joke, but his messages are so good. You can watch any week – they are all outstanding.  Completely different from the Catholic church but both very good. You can fast forward on line through the music, but in today’s insanity, it is part of the comfort.

    So we are on this journey together – and I am very happy to get to know you. God bless.

    https://ricochet.com/779866/swimming-the-bosporus-entering-shallows/

    https://saintritaparish.org/

    https://gracememorial.net/sermons/

    • #13
  14. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Andrew Klavan talked about temporal being something that is comfortable for us, but that G-d exists outside of temporal.

    So that makes sense about the bread crumbs being dropped. It is for us to make note of things, patterns, connections, and be guided, as part of our journey. Life is the journey.

    We make music, it is all patterns bound in the temporal, that I believe are bread crumbs for our spirit.

    I think of that verse

    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

    I Ckrinthians 11- 12

    We can’t quite comprehend G-d, but when face to face we will know. All of the patterns, pieces and crumbs will come together, fit together in ways we can’t imagine.

    Jules PA  Beautiful … absolutely beautiful connections. And yes, I see music as a manifestation of the divine  … a way of God speaking into our souls. The more room we give Him, the more beautiful the music and its affects.

    Thank you so much for your  comment Jules PA. I Corinthians 13: 11-12 is a cornerstone … when we see Him, we will be like Him, transformed into the image of Christ. Therefore seek seek seek.

    Finally, the patterns, pieces, and crumbs will come together in ways we can’t imagine … I believe that! It is a thought I try to keep on the forefront of my mind so as not to become too discouraged. Thank you so much

    • #14
  15. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    And think of the story of Joseph, him being beaten, and sold to slavery, then raised high, to rescue his family from Famine, and preserve the nation of Israel, and the 12 tribes, then all of the prophecy, fulfilled.

    Breadcrumbs.

    Those with ears to hear, and eyes to see…

    YES!! So good. Taste and see.

    • #15
  16. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Wow! This is good stuff!! Are you new here?? I have to go make dinner…..but I’ll be right back – hold that thought!

    Hah! You’re funny. I’m kind of new, but I haven’t been active lately. I had to take some time to organize the piles of breadcrumbs.

    Front Seat Cat … Thanks so much for your kind words … I decided to take a risk and post this here. I normally use a private blog to get feedback on my work in progress, but I thought it was time to put something out there. :)

    • #16
  17. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    So we are on this journey together – and I am very happy to get to know you. God bless.

    Good grief … I am so green I’m a root! I’ve been battling with this reply function for the last ten minutes. Finally figured out how to void running into  the 500 word limit by not having your entire comment show up in my reply. 

    Okay, first of all thank you soooooo much (spoken in Tom Petty voice during final concert tour) for the references to the conversion series and the links to the services. I will definitely check these out.

    Also, I too have had a nonlinear and meandering spiritual journey since receiving Christ (a long time ago) and it’s always encouraging to connect with others who don’t pretend to have lived the perfect life. There’s a lot of those at my church, but I suspect it has to do with the area we live in.

    Anyway, really … I truly appreciate your comments and recommendations.

    • #17
  18. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    ShannonKuzmich (View Comment):
    You might be interested in reading about Wolfgang Pauli – he was a theoretical physicist who went for treatment and then worked with Jung on sussing out synchronicity. He was also responsible for developing the theory of quantum mechanics and deriving the observed spectrum of the hydrogen bomb. Anyway, as you can see, I can’t stop!

    Cool!

    Werner Heisenberg said, “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”

    • #18
  19. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Yep. No matter what people may say, we’re all looking… until we find Him.

    • #19
  20. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Imagine a self-assembling machine beyond anything we could create – a data storage and transfer system, a precision molecular manufacturing assembly line, a fully automated transport system that is resistant to central errors, an array of chemical synthetic machinery that operates at mild conditions with high efficiency, a tough yet flexible container with access ports for required materials, electrochemical power generation with a rotary electrochemical motor for propulsion, and a distributed control system that does not require any central processors.  Best of all, this machine uses no rare materials.

    That is not a sci-fi device, that is an aerobic flagellated bacterium, which could be on your skin right now. 

    To understand the machinery of the cell and not posit a creator of superlative intellect is to be utterly blind.  Saying it was random would be like every 4 player game of poker in history resulting in the same hand for each player, just in different suits, regardless of whether it was 7 card stud, 5 card draw, etc.  It is fully rational to believe in a Creator God.

    • #20
  21. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Yep. No matter what people may say, we’re all looking… until we find Him.

    That is the part that baffles me.  You can see God in anything.  Not sure how people miss him.

    • #21
  22. AUMom Member
    AUMom
    @AUMom

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Yep. No matter what people may say, we’re all looking… until we find Him.

    That is the part that baffles me. You can see God in anything. Not sure how people miss him.

    Most people find what they look for. They are not looking for God. 

    • #22
  23. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    Arvo (View Comment):

    ShannonKuzmich (View Comment):
    You might be interested in reading about Wolfgang Pauli – he was a theoretical physicist who went for treatment and then worked with Jung on sussing out synchronicity. He was also responsible for developing the theory of quantum mechanics and deriving the observed spectrum of the hydrogen bomb. Anyway, as you can see, I can’t stop!

    Cool!

    Werner Heisenberg said, “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”

    That is quite lovely.

    • #23
  24. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Imagine a self-assembling machine beyond anything we could create – a data storage and transfer system, a precision molecular manufacturing assembly line, a fully automated transport system that is resistant to central errors, an array of chemical synthetic machinery that operates at mild conditions with high efficiency, a tough yet flexible container with access ports for required materials, electrochemical power generation with a rotary electrochemical motor for propulsion, and a distributed control system that does not require any central processors. Best of all, this machine uses no rare materials.

    That is not a sci-fi device, that is an aerobic flagellated bacterium, which could be on your skin right now.

    To understand the machinery of the cell and not posit a creator of superlative intellect is to be utterly blind. Saying it was random would be like every 4 player game of poker in history resulting in the same hand for each player, just in different suits, regardless of whether it was 7 card stud, 5 card draw, etc. It is fully rational to believe in a Creator God.

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    Imagine a self-assembling machine beyond anything we could create – a data storage and transfer system, a precision molecular manufacturing assembly line, a fully automated transport system that is resistant to central errors, an array of chemical synthetic machinery that operates at mild conditions with high efficiency, a tough yet flexible container with access ports for required materials, electrochemical power generation with a rotary electrochemical motor for propulsion, and a distributed control system that does not require any central processors. Best of all, this machine uses no rare materials.

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Imagine a self-assembling machine beyond anything we could create – a data storage and transfer system, a precision molecular manufacturing assembly line, a fully automated transport system that is resistant to central errors, an array of chemical synthetic machinery that operates at mild conditions with high efficiency, a tough yet flexible container with access ports for required materials, electrochemical power generation with a rotary electrochemical motor for propulsion, and a distributed control system that does not require any central processors. Best of all, this machine uses no rare materials.

    That is not a sci-fi device, that is an aerobic flagellated bacterium, which could be on your skin right now.

    To understand the machinery of the cell and not posit a creator of superlative intellect is to be utterly blind. Saying it was random would be like every 4 player game of poker in history resulting in the same hand for each player, just in different suits, regardless of whether it was 7 card stud, 5 card draw, etc. It is fully rational to believe in a Creator God.

    Now THAT’S what I’m talking about! A superb example. May I pick this up as a breadcrumb?

    • #24
  25. ShannonKuzmich Coolidge
    ShannonKuzmich
    @GodLovingWoman

    AUMom (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Yep. No matter what people may say, we’re all looking… until we find Him.

    That is the part that baffles me. You can see God in anything. Not sure how people miss him.

    Most people find what they look for. They are not looking for God.

    Agreed … that same youth pastor who mentored me way back when used to say that people do what they really want to do, not what they know they are meant to do

    • #25
  26. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    AUMom (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    One of the things that always confused me is why those that mock religion, especially Christianity seem to be all in on crystals, pyramids, aroma therapy, mother earth, etc. It is like they know there is a God but they just can not bring themselves to embrace it.

    Yep. No matter what people may say, we’re all looking… until we find Him.

    That is the part that baffles me. You can see God in anything. Not sure how people miss him.

    Most people find what they look for. They are not looking for God.

    Sadly, true:

    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    If we are seeking God it is because God is inexorably drawing us.  Using breadcrumbs, too.

    • #26
  27. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Over the last three years, I have been trying to connect with why and how I split off from church, Catholicism, Christianity, and organized religion for so much time in my life.

    Then a friend was talking about the importance in her life of Christ dying for our sins, and suddenly everything fell in place for me. That one constant: Christ dying for our sins on the cross.

    First of all it reduces all of us to being only sinners needing to be saved. In the Catholic Mass, you don’t get too far in before you are beating your breast and  asking for forgiveness for your sins – and this is at eight o’clock in the morning on a Sunday, a time when few if any normal people have committed any sins as the day is still too young. (Unless they got lazy and overslept, causing them to miss Mass completely.)

    Secondly, how is it there is no equal  value given to Christ being on the good earth and experiencing many of the same things all humans do: a Child’s life inside a supportive  family, His inquisitive nature and instructing the rabbis, His adventures as a miracle worker, His talent as a parable spinner? Perhaps a personal favorite activity I admired: Jesus taking on the role of the full fledged revolutionary who kicked over the tables of the money changers. Also, no small thing, His being  a friend to the disciples.

    Not to tear down the importance of His death, but why is there no equal emphasis on his life?

    Once I sorted this out, I felt so much better, on many separate levels.

     

    • #27
  28. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    Then a friend was talking about the importance in her life of Christ dying for our sins, and suddenly everything fell in place for me. That one constant: Christ dying for our sins on the cross.

    Am I sensing a theme here, @caroljoy?  And @shannonkuzmich?  And @jon?  And @sisyphus?

    Is modern American Christianity missing the mark for a lot of people because many churches show the people the trees instead of the forest?

    I’m a few pages into Athanasius’s On the Incarnation, and it’s certainly eloquent, but it’s not anything revelatory.  Really, really, good though.

    It’s the basics, the big picture, it’s answering why is there Christianity at all?

    Our esteemed editor-in-chief talked about his megachurch giving career advice.  God probably does want us to have success in our careers, so that we can do more for Him in the other areas of our lives.  But like Jon pointed out, we can get that kind of help anywhere.  Our children can get good entertainment anywhere.

    Christianity has a big picture, Creation, The Fall, The Incarnation, The Crucifixion, The Resurrection, and Pentecost.  That’s the forest we all need to be aware of, that gives all the other trees context.

    • #28
  29. Cow Girl Thatcher
    Cow Girl
    @CowGirl

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    It is fully rational to believe in a Creator God.

    One conversation I’ve had with a beloved person I know is that very concept. This person is very intelligent and their experience with religion has led them to believe that it doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t seem rational. This person’s world consists of two realms:  physical and intellectual. So, any discussion we had of the spiritual was shut down by this other person’s intellectual arguments.

    One day, it occurred to me that this bi-lateral world view was, in fact, incorrect. All of us have three: physical, intellectual, AND spiritual. A person is living all three of these realms at once. Yes, God created the world…using all the forces that we learn about in science. “Really? in seven days all those tectonic plates did that??” No…in the Bible it says, “And He called it the first day.” That doesn’t mean it was 24 hours. Why wouldn’t God use the forces of the natural world? Why can’t loved ones who have passed on to the next life give us messages to guide or comfort us? They no longer are restricted by their bodies and subjected to the natural limits of earth life–you know: science.

    As earthly beings, we are actually restricted to earthly rules. But, we also have our spiritual and intellectual beings to help us understand those restrictions and to use our brains and our souls to grow and learn and know that God is over all.

    • #29
  30. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    Cow Girl (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    It is fully rational to believe in a Creator God.

    One conversation I’ve had with a beloved person I know is that very concept. This person is very intelligent and their experience with religion has led them to believe that it doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t seem rational. This person’s world consists of two realms: physical and intellectual. So, any discussion we had of the spiritual was shut down by this other person’s intellectual arguments.

    One day, it occurred to me that this bi-lateral world view was, in fact, incorrect. All of us have three: physical, intellectual, AND spiritual. A person is living all three of these realms at once. Yes, God created the world…using all the forces that we learn about in science. “Really? in seven days all those tectonic plates did that??” No…in the Bible it says, “And He called it the first day.” That doesn’t mean it was 24 hours. Why wouldn’t God use the forces of the natural world? Why can’t loved ones who have passed on to the next life give us messages to guide or comfort us? They no longer are restricted by their bodies and subjected to the natural limits of earth life–you know: science.

    As earthly beings, we are actually restricted to earthly rules. But, we also have our spiritual and intellectual beings to help us understand those restrictions and to use our brains and our souls to grow and learn and know that God is over all.

    I have been very frustrated with thinkers who surmise that a leap of faith is leap from the rational into the irrational.

    That’s a category error, and I blame Kierkegaard.

    Faith is often misconstrued as believing something in spite of the facts.  So the skeptic assumes that a blind leap of faith into something that makes no rational sense is required.  That’s where Kierkegaard got hung up.

    We don’t really have a good English word for pistis.  (We don’t have good English words for hope, love, repentance, and on and on, but that’s for another time.)  Faith in the New Testament sense means unwavering confidence and trust.

    There are plenty of good reasons for having unwavering confidence and trust in this.

    • #30
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