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Stormtroopers in Portland? I Don’t Think So!
There’s been a lot of controversy surrounding the alleged “blackbagging” of protesters at the Portland Federal Building demonstrations. I’m only aware of one instance of this having happened from a story in The Nation. There may be others. In that story, the detainee describes being detained, put in an unmarked vehicle, blindfolded with his own beanie, and hustled away to what turned out to be the Federal Building. He was Mirandized, his belongings were searched, and he was asked to answer some questions. When he refused to cooperate, the LEOs released him without charges having found nothing incriminating in his belongings (weapons, spray paint, etc.)
I’m not convinced that anything illegal took place here. The Nation is an extremely left-wing source with an agenda. They have an interest in driving a political narrative about totalitarianism and Trump having invoked the NDAA etc. when nothing of the sort is likely to have happened. I got curious about just what police are allowed to do in terms of arresting/detaining/questioning a suspect. Do they need a warrant etc? It seems the rules are determined by the Supreme Court case Terry v Ohio. Here’s an interpretation of the rules from this link.
“In Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 88 S. Ct. 1868, 20 L. Ed. 2d 889 (1968), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution permits a law enforcement officer to stop, detain, and frisk persons who are suspected of criminal activity without first obtaining their consent, even though the officer may lack a warrant to conduct a search or Probable Cause to make an arrest. Now known as a Terry stop, this type of police encounter is constitutionally permissible only when an officer can articulate a particularized, objective, and reasonable basis for believing that criminal activity may be afoot or that a given suspect may be armed and dangerous.”
So if there’s a riot going on at the Federal Building, and a large number of the rioters are dressed in black so as to make themselves difficult to differentiate (Antifa tactic), and law enforcement officers (LEOs) encounter someone a few blocks away after the rioters have been disbursed, who is dressed in the manner described, I’d say that constitutes probable cause to detain, question, and conduct a personal search (stop and frisk). Can they remove that person to another location to conduct the questioning and the search? I’m not sure, but it doesn’t sound unreasonable, especially in the circumstances where there are other rioters in the vicinity and it can be reasonably assumed that there will be interference encountered from the suspect’s accomplices if the search and questioning were to be conducted on the spot. That leaves the question of the unmarked vehicle and the unknown identity of the detaining force. I doubt the vehicle identification can be cited as a violation of protocol. Police use unmarked cars all the time. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that LEO’s should be required to identify themselves. At the end of the day though, we only have the word of the detainee(s) that the cops failed to identify themselves, and for all we know, that may simply be a courtesy which could have been extended, but not a requirement.
This is a political battle now as much as a law enforcement battle. If the left can spin up a narrative of Donald Trump as the authoritarian, that might just be enough to thwart legitimate law enforcement objectives of quelling 50 days of nighttime riots in Portland. Libertarians on my Facebook page are up in arms over police overreach and the looming security state. It’s not the first time that these well-meaning people (aka useful idiots) have failed to grasp the reality of the situation.
Published in General
I’m looking forward to a reasonable explanation of this, something like, “On July 17, agents of <agency> arrested <names> on suspicion of <charges>.” And the details of when and where the legal proceedings will take place.
Apologies if I missed that elsewhere.
From the information that is available so far. Since about July 14, 2020 Federal Agents with insignia but not badges and name tags. Have arrested multiple people. 13 were detained for federal crimes. Several others were arrested and released or released without arrest. The rioters were taken into Federal custody and were read their miranda rights.
The arrest were for destruction/vandalism of federal property. According to the agency unlike local/ state police Federal law does not require badges and name tags to be visible. Further federal rule 40 US Code 315 authorizes the Secretary of the DHS to deputize any other agent/officer to assist the Federal Protective Service in protecting federal property.
Just sayin’
My personal favorite is this idea that the cops have to identify themselves. No law or rule requires that. If they say “federal agent” that’s all the ID you need. I love the video of the woman telling the feds to “use your words.” My words would not have been fit to print here.
I don’t like police state tactics, but the Portland PD has been taken off the playing field by their commie mayor. The feds need to get in there, arrest the ringleaders, and shut this nonsense down. Only when this starts to hurt big time will this stupidity end.
If you cherry pick who you take off the street with an eye to making a case against the mayor and or the governor for sowing insurrection with reckless disregard for citizens’ rights, you could build on sweet October surprise.
It occurs to me that some of the confusion is probably from tv. People simply do not know what power and limits police have unless they saw it in a movie. This is unfortunate as these useful idiots an entire generation of young (ish) people.
Testimony taken under oath and subject to cross-examination would be helpful.
No, that won’t end it. That’s when it gets really ugly.
And it seems that 100 mile border zone thingy wasn’t very well thought out. I’m sure it would have been much harder to create if someone had said, “This will be handy if we need Los Federales to quell a riot.”
Anyone associated with antifa should be held accountable for the actions of the organization such that it is.
Antifa and BLM are large organizations. It is my hope that they can be ‘found’ and held accountable.
Scott Adams points out that this individual wss possibly an informant and this was a way to pull him out to exchange information. It seems plausible to me, but it is not necessary to have the actions be lawful.
I was watching a legal show last night that covered this. The speculation is that they are Federal Marshals. People forget that it was the Marshall service and not the army that protected people in the South against Jim Crowe.
These are tactics designed to disrupt Antifa because its a nebulous force that can pick them up at any time. Its not some large army of police in riot gear. Using there tactics against them.
Stuff I talked about with @bossmongo a few episodes ago on Land of Confusion.
One issue is that the authors of the US Constitution did not define “due process”. They assumed that the English Common Law understanding of “due process” would continue to be well understood in perpetuity, which history has shown to be rather presumptuous of them.
For example, the Constitution does not specify that a person has a right to be informed why they are being detained. That’s supposed to fall under the umbrella of “due process”, but if it’s not formalized in the Constitution then it’s forever open to interpretation.
Can someone tell me why major cities are being allowed to succumb to ruin by thugs and lawbreakers – why police officers are not being supported and allowed to do their jobs in many areas, and how long before the feds take control of this? I don’t care if they put pink bags over people and drag them off to jail and make their families pay to get them out! The lives of these business owners are ruined, no one will set foot in these towns for any reason. I think they will try to increase this mayhem straight through as a “disruption” of the next election. This is ridiculous – and so are the press – the NY Times printing horse manure that is endangering people like Tucker Carlson and his family. The couple that defended themselves in front of their own house – wouldn’t you have done that also??? Were they supposed to hand out Twinkies and lemonade??
I wake up and feel like I am in The Twilight Zone –
If your polling place is controlled by the CHOP, are you going to vote republican?
I’m hoping this “blackbagging” is true. Anonymity shouldn’t be used by protesters to protect their identity. Anonymity is what gives them the “courage” to destroy. Heck, I’d confiscate their masks (one asset forfeiture I could get behind) so they have to spend more of Soros’ money buying new ones . . .
Because the elite are not effected.
The Senate was willing to let Rome be run over with their paid for mobs. You know what stopped that?
Caesar and his army.
Has Andy McCarthy weighed in yet?
It makes you wonder (well, it makes me wonder, anyway) how the Founders would have written things if they could have seen the craziness of today.
Haha there’s an Onionesque meme floating around the left about the NRA apologizing for neglecting to do what they said they were for, to oppose tyrannical government.
There’s another meme floating around the right about how the rioters…er…protestors are neglecting to do what they said they are doing, just peaceful protesting.
Off a former friend’s most recent FB post: “Trump is using these forces as a personal paramilitary force. That is what dictators do; that is not presidents of a democratic republic do.” Jeff Merkely, Oregon Senator
I have to confess I have no idea which “forces” are being discussed. Does anyone here know?
It’s all here.
The doxxing of 38 Portland Police has resulted in federal agents operating in the Portland area operating without name tags exposed. 53 nights of violent attacks against the Hatfield Building with no effective response from the mayor or the governor makes them complicit in a war against the police and the federal government, with BLM and Antifa as their comrades in arms.
My feeling exactly. I grew up two neighborhoods over from the Chatham neighborhood in Chicago. It was African American, and lower working class. But so vibrant.
My understanding is that Chatham has been torched during the June 2020 Mayhem Of Looting and Arson. It sickens me as over the last decade, that whole area was basically on perpetual lockdown due to gangs.
How much do people have to suffer? In thinking about this, it seems like so much of what we are dealing with has been created and perpetuated by the Secret Inner Leaders on The Left.
It really does seem like the Twilight Zone.
My guess would be the federal forces (from the Border Patrol, I think) sent into Portland to (I believe) defend federal buildings.
But wait, there’s more! From the Post Millennial blog:
That’s hilarious.
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler’s term ends January 1, 2021. He is facing a November 3rd runoff election against Sarah Iannarone, who styles herself as the Antifa Mayor. So the best result is that whatever remaining sapient hominid population there is remaining exfiltrate as soon as possible.