On Losing More Friends

 

On Sunday, there was a large gathering of BLM protesters in my little town of Lynden, WA.  A lot of us who don’t toe that particular line were mildly nervous about how it’d go, but it went fine.  Some counter protesters, Trump supporters and flag wavers, etc.

My daughter, a brash young woman if ever there was one, decided to drive by the protesters with her Keep America Great hat on, and the national anthem playing loudly.  Apparently, this effrontery was much too much for a couple of her “good” friends.  Within minutes she had a text:  “On behalf of [nitwit] and I, you are no longer our friend.  The national anthem is disgusting, and driving past us with your Trump hat on is disgusting.”  Or some such nonsense.

I told our daughter: Good for you for standing up for what you believe in!  I reminded her that standing up for what you believe in will always cost you something.  Unfortunately and often it costs you relationships with friends and family.  She didn’t quite understand why someone would react that way.  She knew her two friends had gone to the BLM rally, and they’d even had discussions on the topic.  But she was not “unfriending” them.  I explained to her: Some people are very fragile in what they believe.  Because they are fragile, they cannot tolerate others not agreeing with them, much less people actively arguing against their views.  I reminded her of a liberal friend of mine.  I said, “We don’t agree on much of anything, politically.  But we are still friends.  We are brothers in Christ, and we know that each other’s view on political matters is the result of our commitment to Christ, each of us in our own way.  We have built a trust in each other that rests on the foundation of Christ.  That supersede’s our political disagreement.  We are both firm enough in our convictions that we can stand to disagree with each other.  And in fact, we value that disagreement because it sharpens both of us.”

I am not troubled by COVID, nor by protesters, nor counter-protestors, nor by police, nor by Joe Biden, nor by Trump.  I AM troubled as I watch our nation divide even more sharply over something which, when you get right down to it, we don’t disagree.

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  1. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    I have to ask a question about backlash: Does it come marching down main street with a high-school marching band, or does it come quietly, leaving the rest of society guessing as to intentions? Maybe, just maybe, this would be a good time for conservatives to keep the complaints about BLM to ourselves (on a relative basis) and let things play out.

    I have a pretty good sense of how things would play out if conservatives did that. I’m trying to think of an instance where “keeping to ourselves” has solved anything.

    While I would readily admit that backlash doesn’t often lend itself to solutions, I would submit that trying to solve this George Floyd/statue/BLM protest thing right now would cause quite a few more issues. Right now, President Trump looks pretty good for NOT sending, say, elements of US Army’s I-Corps into downtown Seattle to force dispersal of the CHAZ/CHOP protesters.

    That’s quite a bit different from saying we shouldn’t publicly and actively denounce and oppose BLM and its narrative.  An ideological and emotional backlash is vital in preventing this country from becoming Venezuela, with conservatives rendered powerless to effectively resist.  Any issues resulting from this pale in comparison.  Your example is simply the rejection of a specific strategy of confrontation, not a strategic retreat (which is what your post sounded like it was advocating).

    Besides, strategic retreat will never be a good idea so long as the majority of the Republican party apparatus view it as an opportunity to surrender.

    • #61
  2. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    It’s hard to maintain a friendship with someone perceived to be a threat.

    For better or worse, this is how I’ve come to see those on the political left — including my own friends and acquaintances. Most, yes, aren’t bomb-throwing radicals. But does it really matter? They’ll yield to the bomb-throwing radicals in every possible circumstance, so what difference does it make? Useful idiots are still idiots. Useful idiots are the magic ingredient in the totalitarian stew.

    I’ve grown up around these people. I went to school with them. The thought of being governed by them fills me with unalloyed terror. But I will be governed by them. I’m 24. Unlike some of you lucky Ricochetti — you who came of age in optimistic times — I’ll have to live in the hell my own generation is creating (or worsening, if you accept the anti-Boomer thesis).

    Add me to the ever-growing list of twenty-something sad sacks who believe the American dream is dead. Why would I want to befriend the very people who killed it?

    In fifth grade, I think it was, our teacher asked the class: Would you prefer to have been raised a prince and then to become a commoner, or never to have been a prince at all and never know what you had lost?

    I couldn’t answer that question then, and I still can’t answer it now. But at the time, I felt that memory of once-greatness would assuage the loss. But now I wonder if the loss of what once was is perhaps the greater sorrow.

    Maybe the stronger view is to recognize that loss and sorrow are inescapable parts of life. 

    Princes have loss and sorrow too.

    • #62
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    It’s hard to maintain a friendship with someone perceived to be a threat.

    For better or worse, this is how I’ve come to see those on the political left — including my own friends and acquaintances. Most, yes, aren’t bomb-throwing radicals. But does it really matter? They’ll yield to the bomb-throwing radicals in every possible circumstance, so what difference does it make? Useful idiots are still idiots. Useful idiots are the magic ingredient in the totalitarian stew.

    I’ve grown up around these people. I went to school with them. The thought of being governed by them fills me with unalloyed terror. But I will be governed by them. I’m 24. Unlike some of you lucky Ricochetti — you who came of age in optimistic times — I’ll have to live in the hell my own generation is creating (or worsening, if you accept the anti-Boomer thesis).

    Add me to the ever-growing list of twenty-something sad sacks who believe the American dream is dead. Why would I want to befriend the very people who killed it?

    In fifth grade, I think it was, our teacher asked the class: Would you prefer to have been raised a prince and then to become a commoner, or never to have been a prince at all and never know what you had lost?

    I couldn’t answer that question then, and I still can’t answer it now. But at the time, I felt that memory of once-greatness would assuage the loss. But now I wonder if the loss of what once was is perhaps the greater sorrow.

    Maybe the stronger view is to recognize that loss and sorrow are inescapable parts of life.

    Princes have loss and sorrow too.

    A good country is a terrible thing to waste.  I think of all the losses I’ve taken, that the loss of the country that I loved is the hardest.

    • #63
  4. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    It’s hard to maintain a friendship with someone perceived to be a threat.

    For better or worse, this is how I’ve come to see those on the political left — including my own friends and acquaintances. Most, yes, aren’t bomb-throwing radicals. But does it really matter? They’ll yield to the bomb-throwing radicals in every possible circumstance, so what difference does it make? Useful idiots are still idiots. Useful idiots are the magic ingredient in the totalitarian stew.

    I’ve grown up around these people. I went to school with them. The thought of being governed by them fills me with unalloyed terror. But I will be governed by them. I’m 24. Unlike some of you lucky Ricochetti — you who came of age in optimistic times — I’ll have to live in the hell my own generation is creating (or worsening, if you accept the anti-Boomer thesis).

    Add me to the ever-growing list of twenty-something sad sacks who believe the American dream is dead. Why would I want to befriend the very people who killed it?

    In fifth grade, I think it was, our teacher asked the class: Would you prefer to have been raised a prince and then to become a commoner, or never to have been a prince at all and never know what you had lost?

    I couldn’t answer that question then, and I still can’t answer it now. But at the time, I felt that memory of once-greatness would assuage the loss. But now I wonder if the loss of what once was is perhaps the greater sorrow.

    Maybe the stronger view is to recognize that loss and sorrow are inescapable parts of life.

    Princes have loss and sorrow too.

    A good country is a terrible thing to waste. I think of all the losses I’ve taken, that the loss of the country that I loved is the hardest.

    The loss of my young nephew is the hardest, but I do view this as existing within the same realm of comparison.

    • #64
  5. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Anamcara (View Comment):

    I firmly believe that countering propaganda is the most pressing issue today. Think of the empire of influence pushers aimed at us and our kids today: the mainstream media, social media, TV programs, corporation policies,teachers’ unions, newspapers, all spew left propaganda. Communism for Kids is #22 in Amazon’s books for children. Not to mention all the dystopian young adult books. I recently said to a teen grand niece that I thought a picture was beautiful. She responded with great authority, “There is no beauty!” I also understand that the 1619 curriculum is going into 3000 school districts across the country.

    I often wonder what Hitler would have accomplished if he had all the propaganda outlets available to him that we have today. He curtailed free speech and then we all know \what he was able to pull off with schools, radio, film and newspapers. Would there even be one Jew alive today? I don’t know.

    Is it a luxury to debate if we should push back? I think it is, but don’t look to me for suggestions on how. I sit here half-blind in my wheelchair and, though I do feel the necessity to act, I don’t know what to do. Oh… except one thing: vote for Trump.

    The Germans made a good movie about this.

    The last scene is priceless.

    • #65
  6. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    TBA (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    some of my friends refuse to talk about BLM.

    I told them to go the BLM website and read their mission statement.

     

    Spin’s daughter’s ex-friends should do the same.

    They may have fixed it by now.

    No they haven’t.  What is there to fix?  What I found true is that if you just go to the site and look for their “What do we believe” statement, you can’t find it.  You have to google it, then the page comes up.  I looked for a good 30-60 seconds and couldn’t find a link to it on their page.  But it’s there if you want to find it.

    • #66
  7. brad2971 Inactive
    brad2971
    @brad2971

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    I have to ask a question about backlash: Does it come marching down main street with a high-school marching band, or does it come quietly, leaving the rest of society guessing as to intentions? Maybe, just maybe, this would be a good time for conservatives to keep the complaints about BLM to ourselves (on a relative basis) and let things play out.

    I have a pretty good sense of how things would play out if conservatives did that. I’m trying to think of an instance where “keeping to ourselves” has solved anything.

    While I would readily admit that backlash doesn’t often lend itself to solutions, I would submit that trying to solve this George Floyd/statue/BLM protest thing right now would cause quite a few more issues. Right now, President Trump looks pretty good for NOT sending, say, elements of US Army’s I-Corps into downtown Seattle to force dispersal of the CHAZ/CHOP protesters.

    That’s quite a bit different from saying we shouldn’t publicly and actively denounce and oppose BLM and its narrative. An ideological and emotional backlash is vital in preventing this country from becoming Venezuela, with conservatives rendered powerless to effectively resist. Any issues resulting from this pale in comparison. Your example is simply the rejection of a specific strategy of confrontation, not a strategic retreat (which is what your post sounded like it was advocating).

    Besides, strategic retreat will never be a good idea so long as the majority of the Republican party apparatus view it as an opportunity to surrender.

    I think you will agree that Tucker Carlson is providing a good chunk of that “ideological and emotional backlash” right now. How’s that working out for, say, his show’s advertising sales staff right now?

     

    • #67
  8. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    I have to ask a question about backlash: Does it come marching down main street with a high-school marching band, or does it come quietly, leaving the rest of society guessing as to intentions? Maybe, just maybe, this would be a good time for conservatives to keep the complaints about BLM to ourselves (on a relative basis) and let things play out.

    I have a pretty good sense of how things would play out if conservatives did that. I’m trying to think of an instance where “keeping to ourselves” has solved anything.

    While I would readily admit that backlash doesn’t often lend itself to solutions, I would submit that trying to solve this George Floyd/statue/BLM protest thing right now would cause quite a few more issues. Right now, President Trump looks pretty good for NOT sending, say, elements of US Army’s I-Corps into downtown Seattle to force dispersal of the CHAZ/CHOP protesters.

    That’s quite a bit different from saying we shouldn’t publicly and actively denounce and oppose BLM and its narrative. An ideological and emotional backlash is vital in preventing this country from becoming Venezuela, with conservatives rendered powerless to effectively resist. Any issues resulting from this pale in comparison. Your example is simply the rejection of a specific strategy of confrontation, not a strategic retreat (which is what your post sounded like it was advocating).

    Besides, strategic retreat will never be a good idea so long as the majority of the Republican party apparatus view it as an opportunity to surrender.

    I think you will agree that Tucker Carlson is providing a good chunk of that “ideological and emotional backlash” right now. How’s that working out for, say, his show’s advertising sales staff right now?

    Better than it would if he allowed this BS (from both parties) to go on unchallenged, and then tried to oppose it later.  The brownshirts would do the same thing, from a stronger position:

    He also wouldn’t have had half of the audience he does now, as he would lack all credibility for not speaking out earlier.

    • #68
  9. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    @spin, I’m really sorry that happened to your daughter and I know your heart bleeds for her because you’re her father and frankly my heart bleeds a little too. One is always tempted to say, “well, those two weren’t her real friends,” but that doesn’t help and I’m not even sure that it would be accurate; they’re young, perhaps they aren’t strong enough to be loyal, or perhaps politics will always come first. Anyway, I’m sorry she was treated so cruelly by people she trusted. 

    • #69
  10. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    TBA (View Comment):
    One is always tempted to say, “well, those two weren’t her real friends,”

    Well, their own text says they aren’t real friends. They may reconsider, but, I’d encourage her not to burn bridges, or wait. 

    If they are being eaten alive by the left, that is when they will remember her. Then she’d have to wonder if that was true. 

    Betrayal is not an easy thing to resolve. 

    Hopefully she still has other friends and family. 

    I’m worried about this belligerent BLM attitude when we are back to school. For both staff and students. 

    • #70
  11. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    One is always tempted to say, “well, those two weren’t her real friends,”

    Well, their own text says they aren’t real friends. They may reconsider, but, I’d encourage her not to burn bridges, or wait.

    If they are being eaten alive by the left, that is when they will remember her. Then she’d have to wonder if that was true.

    Betrayal is not an easy thing to resolve.

    Hopefully she still has other friends and family.

    I’m worried about this belligerent BLM attitude when we are back to school. For both staff and students.

    The bridges are burned.  Yesterday the girl told my daughter that she “…believes anything your dad shoves up your [expletive].”

    Teenagers with reason are like that chimpanzee with the AK-47:  they’ve got it, but they have no idea how to use it.  

     

    • #71
  12. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    • #72
  13. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Spin (View Comment):
    The bridges are burned. Yesterday the girl told my daughter that she “…believes anything your dad shoves up your [expletive].”

    I guess she thinks that doubling down makes her point stronger. So sad. 

    • #73
  14. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    The bridges are burned. Yesterday the girl told my daughter that she “…believes anything your dad shoves up your [expletive].”

    I guess she thinks that doubling down makes her point stronger. So sad.

    Kids these days!

    • #74
  15. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck. 

    • #75
  16. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    • #76
  17. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    One is always tempted to say, “well, those two weren’t her real friends,”

    Well, their own text says they aren’t real friends. They may reconsider, but, I’d encourage her not to burn bridges, or wait.

    If they are being eaten alive by the left, that is when they will remember her. Then she’d have to wonder if that was true.

    Betrayal is not an easy thing to resolve.

    Hopefully she still has other friends and family.

    I’m worried about this belligerent BLM attitude when we are back to school. For both staff and students.

    I worry too, but if teachers start getting shouted down they will mostly have themselves to blame; the importance of feelings, the right to attack ‘bullies’, truth-to-power, ‘systemic racism’, check-your-privilege, no justice/no peace – if the culmination of all of these lessons is the destruction of your teachers, shouldn’t you get an ‘A’?  

    • #77
  18. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Arvo (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    ~hastily scrubs his playlist before he can be outed~ 

    • #78
  19. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    And with that one scene in the movie Stripes, I knew that our long national nightmare was coming to a close.

    • #79
  20. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Arvo (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    At least these groups produced what qualified as music.  Today with computerized voice manipulation I feel as if I’m listening to robots impersonating human song.

    • #80
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsQI2IeM5U

    • #81
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Arvo (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    ABBA did a lot of stuff that wasn’t disco.  The Bee Gees, not so much.

    • #82
  23. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    ABBA did a lot of stuff that wasn’t disco. The Bee Gees, not so much.

    The Bee Gees did about a dozen albums prior to the Disco era.  

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Gees#Discography

    • #83
  24. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    ABBA did a lot of stuff that wasn’t disco. The Bee Gees, not so much.

    The Bee Gees did about a dozen albums prior to the Disco era.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Gees#Discography

    “How a post about losing friends over politics turned in to a history lesson about disco” – That’s Soooo Ricochet!

    • #84
  25. Arvo Inactive
    Arvo
    @Arvo

    Spin (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arvo (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    Teenagers

    Oh, I’d missed that.

    I listened to Rush and Zep when I was a teenager, which is why I thought it was cool to yell, “Disco sucks!” out the window when I was picking up my brother at the local dance emporium teen night.

    Which was not nice on many levels.

    Yet disco continues to suck.

    Yet, somehow I’ve become quite the ABBA fan, and some of the BeeGees stuff, and other disco tunes when they get played on SiriusXM 70s.

    I was so sure of myself back then.

    ABBA did a lot of stuff that wasn’t disco. The Bee Gees, not so much.

    The Bee Gees did about a dozen albums prior to the Disco era.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Gees#Discography

    “How a post about losing friends over politics turned in to a history lesson about disco” – That’s Soooo Ricochet!

    First 45 I bought was How Can You Mend A Broken Heart haha

    • #85
  26. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    • #86
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