Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Discuss: Brandishing a Gun in a Gated Community

 

This is very interesting. This is either a gated community or an estate. Is the wife going to get in trouble for brandishing a weapon? I don’t know the law. What would you do?

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  1. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    Stad (View Comment):

    I fully support the couple and what they did. No, they weren’t perfect, but their home isn’t burned down, is it?

    It will be interesting to see if BLM management will circle back and destroy these people.

    • #31
    • June 29, 2020, at 6:32 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  2. Stad Coolidge

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Sisyphus (hears Xi laughing) (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I love this.

    They just outperformed the entire Seattle government.

    Sadly I foresee jail time for them. Whites with guns are bad and racist and must be destroyed. On the other hand they do seem to have money and connects so maybe the law will help them for a change.

    I foresee an attempt to have them prosecuted, but in the long run it will fail. To do so would put politicians at risk of losing if they tell residents they’re not allowed to protect their property.

    Update: I read the couple are both lawyers. The odds of a successful prosecution just dropped even more . . .

    • #32
    • June 29, 2020, at 6:35 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  3. Stad Coolidge

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    I fully support the couple and what they did. No, they weren’t perfect, but their home isn’t burned down, is it?

    It will be interesting to see if BLM management will circle back and destroy these people.

    You know they will. Violence is their method, and striking fear is also a weapon . . .

    • #33
    • June 29, 2020, at 6:36 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  4. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    Whatever the law says, they will be victims of cancel culture just the same.

    Dude owns his own (obviously) successful law firm. He’s not gonna cancel himself.

    • #34
    • June 29, 2020, at 6:43 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  5. lowtech redneck Coolidge

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    No way to know the legality under Missouri law but since they are on their own property it would tough to convict them of anything, including brandishing (if Missouri law is anything remotely close to Texas law).

    But in general neither looks very competent with their weapons. He needs a sling; standing there with a single point sling, muzzle down, would accomplish the same thing without giving anyone the excuse to say he was pointing it at them. Or he could have held it with the butt against his hip and muzzle high. She sweeps everyone in the area with her muzzle at some point. She’d be kicked off of every gun range in the US for handling a weapon like that. Despite all that, they are still Americans acting within their rights to defend themselves. I just hate having to defend people who are so incompetent.

    They might have only recently bought the guns…..a lot of that going around.

    • #35
    • June 29, 2020, at 6:50 AM PDT
    • 16 likes
  6. Tex929rr Coolidge

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    No way to know the legality under Missouri law but since they are on their own property it would tough to convict them of anything, including brandishing (if Missouri law is anything remotely close to Texas law).

    But in general neither looks very competent with their weapons. He needs a sling; standing there with a single point sling, muzzle down, would accomplish the same thing without giving anyone the excuse to say he was pointing it at them. Or he could have held it with the butt against his hip and muzzle high. She sweeps everyone in the area with her muzzle at some point. She’d be kicked off of every gun range in the US for handling a weapon like that. Despite all that, they are still Americans acting within their rights to defend themselves. I just hate having to defend people who are so incompetent.

    They might have only recently bought the guns…..a lot of that going around.

    Sure. It’s a right, not a privilege. But with great power comes great responsibility.

    • #36
    • June 29, 2020, at 6:56 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  7. Stad Coolidge

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    No way to know the legality under Missouri law but since they are on their own property it would tough to convict them of anything, including brandishing (if Missouri law is anything remotely close to Texas law).

    But in general neither looks very competent with their weapons. He needs a sling; standing there with a single point sling, muzzle down, would accomplish the same thing without giving anyone the excuse to say he was pointing it at them. Or he could have held it with the butt against his hip and muzzle high. She sweeps everyone in the area with her muzzle at some point. She’d be kicked off of every gun range in the US for handling a weapon like that. Despite all that, they are still Americans acting within their rights to defend themselves. I just hate having to defend people who are so incompetent.

    They might have only recently bought the guns…..a lot of that going around.

    Sure. It’s a right, not a privilege. But with great power comes great responsibility.

    And they did the responsible thing by showing their weapons instead of shooting into the crowd for no reason. Luckily no one in the crowd was dumb enough to challenge them . . .

    • #37
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:07 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  8. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):
    They might have only recently bought the guns…..a lot of that going around.

    I don’t think so. That dude’s got an old M16-style rifle with iron sights, a non-collapsible stock and what appears to me to be a steel box magazine. I bet he was in the military, and when it became vogue, he got himself an AR that resembled what he’d used when he was young. Because a guy with that sort of money doesn’t get manky unless he wants manky. I could be wrong, of course…

    • #38
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:10 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  9. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    So we’ll all play arm-chair jurist with information that may or may not be correct.

    I don’t see what isn’t resolved given what we know about Missouri law, now.

    My point is we only have a few moments in time. We don’t know what happened before, or after. We don’t know how far on to the property they protesters went. We don’t know what was said. We, meaning you and I, who weren’t there and now only have what we see on the Internet.

    • #39
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:12 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  10. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    Spin (View Comment):
    We don’t know what happened before

    This part is easy. The protesters broke in to their property. 

    I should have waited for this. The rioters were nice enough to stay the community sidewalk that they aren’t supposed to use: 

     

     

     

    • #40
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:20 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  11. ctlaw Coolidge

    Spin (View Comment):
    I bet he was in the military, and when it became vogue, he got himself an AR that resembled what he’d used when he was young. Because a guy with that sort of money doesn’t get manky unless he wants manky. I could be wrong, of course…

    Slight possibility.

    He graduated college in 1982 at age 25+/-.

    He went straight from college to law school and has been in private practice personal injury work since 1 year after law school.

    Could he have done a 2-year stint pre-college?

    • #41
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:20 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. Doug Watt Moderator

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Given the likely cost of that house, they could afford to be much better armed. Clearly, the husband needs some spare magazines and a sidearm. The wife also clearly needs an AR or a carbine.

    Although they could probably afford a pair of transferable Uzis, an alternative suggestion would be for each to have a PX4 and a CX4.This would allow for magazine interchangeability. Save the ARs for when you have to go full roof Korean.

    Then we have the body armor issue.

    I thought people with this kind of money hired armed security rather than messing about with guns themselves. Then they don’t have to worry about the legal danger of using a weapon improperly, or getting hurt mixing it up with a mob, or having their faces posted on social media. Something seems off with this whole thing.

    Really, especially being lawyers, they had to know that there were so many ways this could turn out badly for them. Much better to hire a few big, intimidating guys who say nothing and just glare at the protesters.

    Hiring taxpayer paid armed private security is a right now reserved for Minneapolis city council members.

    • #42
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:29 AM PDT
    • 14 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  13. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

     

     

     

    Camouflage.

    • #43
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:40 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  14. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    I bet he was in the military, and when it became vogue, he got himself an AR that resembled what he’d used when he was young. Because a guy with that sort of money doesn’t get manky unless he wants manky. I could be wrong, of course…

    Slight possibility.

    He graduated college in 1982 at age 25+/-.

    He went straight from college to law school and has been in private practice personal injury work since 1 year after law school.

    Could he have done a 2-year stint pre-college?

    Maybe he was in the national guard. It’s troubling that we know so much about this guy. We shouldn’t. But that’s the age in which we live!

    • #44
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:42 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    This is the chairman of the Libertarian Party. I’m pretty sure he’s a lawyer. I do not like him, for the record.

     

     

     

    • #45
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:45 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  16. lowtech redneck Coolidge

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    This is the chairman of the Libertarian Party. I’m pretty sure he’s a lawyer. I do not like him, for the record.

     

     

     

    The ‘Libertarian’ Party ceased being libertarian several years ago. After they came out against religious liberty during the 2016 election, I’ve expected nothing helpful from them.

    • #46
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:48 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  17. Locke On Member

    Never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake:

    The “battle is in the ‘burbs” for votes between the reds and blues. How do the ‘burbs stay or turn red? That’s puzzled and frustrated those on the conservative side for years. Now the leftists and race hustlers are answering the question for them.

    • #47
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:57 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  18. ctlaw Coolidge

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    This is the chairman of the Libertarian Party. I’m pretty sure he’s a lawyer. I do not like him, for the record.

     

     

     

    He does not discuss apparent defenses. MO appears to have expansive castle doctrine with no duty to retreat on one’s own property. https://codes.findlaw.com/mo/title-xxxviii-crimes-and-punishment-peace-officers-and-public-defenders/mo-rev-st-563-031.html

    Except for the pointing of the guns, it would not remotely be a question of having a defense. There likely is another statue in play for the pointing. Becomes a question of reasonableness/proportionality. Mere exhibiting in a threatening manner is clearly reasonable/proportional. Pointing would be foolish unless there was some evidence of either armed protestors or they were advancing.

    • #48
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:58 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  19. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member

    Regarding the house, please see my reply on Bethany’s post. I don’t know how to link to it.

    Article here.

    • #49
    • June 29, 2020, at 7:58 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    This is the head of the Niskanen Center that Bill Kristol et. al. flock to. Pierre Omidyar gives those guys and The Bulwark, The Lincoln Project etc. tons of money.

     

     

     

    • #50
    • June 29, 2020, at 8:18 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  21. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    Locke On (View Comment):

    Never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake:

    The “battle is in the ‘burbs” for votes between the reds and blues. How do the ‘burbs stay or turn red? That’s puzzled and frustrated those on the conservative side for years. Now the leftists and race hustlers are answering the question for them.

    I keep hearing about the mistakes the Left is making as I watch all the losing the Right always done.

    • #51
    • June 29, 2020, at 8:38 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  22. Barry Jones Thatcher

    Spin (View Comment):

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    I bet he was in the military, and when it became vogue, he got himself an AR that resembled what he’d used when he was young. Because a guy with that sort of money doesn’t get manky unless he wants manky. I could be wrong, of course…

    Slight possibility.

    He graduated college in 1982 at age 25+/-.

    He went straight from college to law school and has been in private practice personal injury work since 1 year after law school.

    Could he have done a 2-year stint pre-college?

    Maybe he was in the national guard. It’s troubling that we know so much about this guy. We shouldn’t. But that’s the age in which we live!

    Meh on the M-16 style indicating prior service. Maybe. But a just as likely reason for the M-16 style is that it is a recent purchase and because supply is low on long guns in many areas of the country, he bought what was available at the time. Maybe, maybe not.

    • #52
    • June 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  23. J Climacus Member

    One lesson to take from this is as soon as you think trouble might be starting, get your phone out and start recording so that the bad guys aren’t the only ones with video. If this couple had video of the mob kicking in the iron gate and storming through, or the members of the mob they claim were armed, life would unfold a lot easier for them.

    What’s going on here, at both micro and macro levels, is a war of perception as well as an increasingly physical war.

    • #53
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:03 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  24. ctlaw Coolidge

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    One lesson to take from this is as soon as you think trouble might be starting, get your phone out and start recording so that the bad guys aren’t the only ones with video. If this couple had video of the mob kicking in the iron gate and storming through, or the members of the mob they claim were armed, life would unfold a lot easier for them.

    What’s going on here, at both micro and macro levels, is a war of perception as well as an increasingly physical war.

    Their attorneys and the police likely have the security system video.

    • #54
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:10 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  25. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    They were noisy too. 

     

     

     

    • #55
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:13 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  26. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    You can see a photo of the destroyed gate here. The cops put barriers around some of the homes as I suppose this was predicted. They destroyed the barriers. 

     

    https://www.kmov.com/news/we-were-in-fear-of-our-lives-central-west-end-couple-seen-pointing-guns-at/article_afbb1b2c-b98e-11ea-ba7e-b3452007bfc8.html 

     

     

    • #56
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:22 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  27. Sisyphus Coolidge
    SisyphusJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    You can see a photo of the destroyed gate here. The cops put barriers around some of the homes as I suppose this was predicted. They destroyed the barriers.

     

    https://www.kmov.com/news/we-were-in-fear-of-our-lives-central-west-end-couple-seen-pointing-guns-at/article_afbb1b2c-b98e-11ea-ba7e-b3452007bfc8.html

     

     

    Broken link.

    • #57
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:25 AM PDT
    • Like
  28. Full Size Tabby Member

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

     

     

     

    A mob invading private property is not “peaceful.” And as others noted, given the history of this category of protestors, it is entirely reasonable to assume that the mob does not have peaceful intent. The Daily Mirror headline writer is an idiot.

    • #58
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:27 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  29. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    This guy is an ex cop and I would assume he’s pretty knowledgeable.

     

     

    • #59
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:28 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones

    Sisyphus (hears Xi laughing) (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    You can see a photo of the destroyed gate here. The cops put barriers around some of the homes as I suppose this was predicted. They destroyed the barriers.

     

    https://www.kmov.com/news/we-were-in-fear-of-our-lives-central-west-end-couple-seen-pointing-guns-at/article_afbb1b2c-b98e-11ea-ba7e-b3452007bfc8.html

     

     

    Broken link.

    It works for me.

    • #60
    • June 29, 2020, at 9:29 AM PDT
    • 2 likes