Commentary on a Comment

 

I tend to wear a mask in public for consideration reasons, not a political statement. I don’t believe they are a necessity; but at the moment, I wear one to help others feel more comfortable. [emphasis mine]

I pulled this part of a comment from another “mask” thread, because it is a concept that I learned something about in my psychology training (Masters degree). In order to “help others feel more comfortable”, you need to be able to read other peoples’ minds. You need to know which others are uncomfortable, and what you have to do to make them feel comfortable. Since mind-reading is impossible, so far, it is next to impossible to know what makes anyone else uncomfortable. In sum, you are not, and cannot be, responsible for someone else’s feelings. Just like in the case of “harassment”, where you are expected to know which words will make a passerby uncomfortable (impossible!), so you say nothing to make sure you don’t offend anyone (especially when the concept of “third party harassment” is an actual thing that may prompt a lawsuit). Since I cannot know what makes someone else uncomfortable, I can’t behave so as to make them comfortable.

I choose not to wear a mask because I am not afraid of contagion, nor am I afraid of spreading a disease that I do not have. I operate on the premise that people I meet do not carry the dreaded virus, instead of the premise that everyone I meet, everywhere, is potentially deadly to me. We went for hundreds of years, with much more deadly diseases around, without government mandates to wear masks. Wearing a mask makes me uncomfortable, so most of the time I do not wear one. I am prepared to take the consequences of my decision.

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  1. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    I’ve been considering wearing mine over the top of my head, or perhaps across my chin ala Joe Biden.

    If it assuages the overblown anxieties of others, I can play along.

    • #1
  2. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    It seems to me that there’s a difference between knowing what will make others comfortable and making an educated guess about what might make others comfortable. I think rejecting the idea that we might make an effort to make others uncomfortable, based admittedly on our imperfect knowledge, is just a little bit, well, extreme.

    • #2
  3. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    You can take others’ feelings into account, but you are not responsible for their feelings.

    • #3
  4. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    RushBabe49: Since mind-reading is impossible, so far, it is next to impossible to know what makes anyone else uncomfortable.

    A rare case where I disagree with you.

    It is easy to know what makes others uncomfortable in a radicalized, conformist political environment like this.

    It reminds me of a book I read by a man who was brought up as a privileged child of dedicated Chinese Communist parents and became a Red Guard.  He tells of a scene where an enormous crowd, it may have even been a million maybe, had gathered in Beijing to catch a glimpse of Mao.

    To not scream hysterically in ecstasy was “what made everyone else uncomfortable”.

    When the Great Leader finally appeared in the distance from behind some wall, after hours of unbridled mob frenzy, the author was apparently tired of screaming hysterically.  Taking a cue from some others he saw, he pretended to faint from unbearable happiness.  Doing this “made others comfortable“, as he knew from a childhood and youth spent in indoctrination.  He was tended to by admiring Comrades, and earned their respect.

    Wearing a mask in Costco makes others comfortable.  Anyone who wasn’t bent into a state of submission would have quite possibly worn his mask a little below his nostrils so he could breathe comfortably.  It would have cost nothing except that others would have noticed the lack of obedience and unquestioning faith in the new powers of the authorities.

    But in two recent trips, I saw not a single such cost-free, simple act of independence. I saw one woman with no mask on at all, and one small child in a stroller without one.

    • #4
  5. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    It’s a lot easier to tell if someone is feeling uncomfortable if you can see their freakin’ face. 

    • #5
  6. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    RushBabe49: Since mind-reading is impossible, so far, it is next to impossible to know what makes anyone else uncomfortable.

    A rare case where I disagree with you.

    It is easy to know what makes others uncomfortable in a radicalized, conformist political environment like this.

    It reminds me of a book I read by a man who was brought up as a privileged child of dedicated Chinese Communist parents and became a Red Guard. He tells of a scene where an enormous crowd, it may have even been a million maybe, had gathered in Beijing to catch a glimpse of Mao.

    To not scream hysterically in ecstasy was “what made everyone else uncomfortable”.

    When the Great Leader finally appeared in the distance from behind some wall, after hours of unbridled mob frenzy, the author was apparently tired of screaming hysterically. Taking a cue from some others he saw, he pretended to faint from unbearable happiness. Doing this “made others comfortable“, as he knew from a childhood and youth spent in indoctrination. He was tended to by admiring Comrades, and earned their respect.

    Wearing a mask in Costco makes others comfortable. Anyone who wasn’t bent into a state of submission would have quite possibly worn his mask a little below his nostrils so he could breathe comfortably. It would have cost nothing except that others would have noticed the lack of obedience and unquestioning faith in the new powers of the authorities.

    But in two recent trips, I saw not a single such cost-free, simple act of independence. I saw one woman with no mask on at all, and one small child in a stroller without one.

    This turns out to be quite a tricky question.

    I fear the virus not at all, and think the mask-wearing is essentially 100% theater. (If that’s the right word – I’m not sure how to express this.)

    Whatever I think of it, I know that my fellow man may think differently. In cases of style, or decorum, or politeness, I might think differently – I an wot I am, deal with it or ignore it.*

    But with a health scare, especially one that goes both ways – your mask protects me/your mask protects you – I have to check, not my vaunted privilege, but my humility. Can I really just tell all these scared rabbits in Wegmans to suck it, because “glorious Bruce” is the one among you who knows this is all horsehockey?

    No. Though it makes me feel insulted and degraded because I appear to be as cowed as all these dedicated snowflakes, I agree to wear the goddam thing because I need to be reminded that I don’t know everything, I don’t get to make all the decisions if I am in a crowd of fellow citizens, I am on private property and the owner said to do this, and again, I don’t know everything.

    I keep wanting to change my mask to something ironic that states all that, so I can be the cool one who isn’t stupid like them. But then I remember two things: 1. they might be right – I’m not a scientist, just a reflexive skeptic. And 2. Why would I care to advertise my thoughts and motives through my mask? To expend the calories to do it would be like getting a bumper sticker printed up – who am I talking to, and why?

    *Though I confess that even in these matters I mostly take the humility route – though NOT the humble route – if you get the difference. Unless there’s a need to confront, to cause trouble, what is served by my getting in someone’s face with my awesomeness when they have quite enough to handle with their own awesomeness, as they are usually focused on. As it should be.

    • #6
  7. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge
    DonG (skeptic)
    @DonG

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    It seems to me that there’s a difference between knowing what will make others comfortable and making an educated guess about what might make others comfortable.

    The MSM is kind enough to tell us what makes other people uncomfortable.  We don’t need to read minds or facial expressions or even make guesses.  We can Trust the Experts. </sarc>

    • #7
  8. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    RushBabe49: Since mind-reading is impossible, so far, it is next to impossible to know what makes anyone else uncomfortable.

    A rare case where I disagree with you.

    It is easy to know what makes others uncomfortable in a radicalized, conformist political environment like this.

    It reminds me of a book I read by a man who was brought up as a privileged child of dedicated Chinese Communist parents and became a Red Guard. He tells of a scene where an enormous crowd, it may have even been a million maybe, had gathered in Beijing to catch a glimpse of Mao.

    To not scream hysterically in ecstasy was “what made everyone else uncomfortable”.

    When the Great Leader finally appeared in the distance from behind some wall, after hours of unbridled mob frenzy, the author was apparently tired of screaming hysterically. Taking a cue from some others he saw, he pretended to faint from unbearable happiness. Doing this “made others comfortable“, as he knew from a childhood and youth spent in indoctrination. He was tended to by admiring Comrades, and earned their respect.

    Wearing a mask in Costco makes others comfortable. Anyone who wasn’t bent into a state of submission would have quite possibly worn his mask a little below his nostrils so he could breathe comfortably. It would have cost nothing except that others would have noticed the lack of obedience and unquestioning faith in the new powers of the authorities.

    But in two recent trips, I saw not a single such cost-free, simple act of independence. I saw one woman with no mask on at all, and one small child in a stroller without one.

    This turns out to be quite a tricky question.

    I fear the virus not at all, and think the mask-wearing is essentially 100% theater. (If that’s the right word – I’m not sure how to express this.)

    Whatever I think of it, I know that my fellow man may think differently. In cases of style, or decorum, or politeness, I might think differently – I an wot I am, deal with it or ignore it.*

    But with a health scare, especially one that goes both ways – your mask protects me/your mask protects you – I have to check, not my vaunted privilege, but my humility. Can I really just tell all these scared rabbits in Wegmans to suck it, because “glorious Bruce” is the one among you who knows this is all horsehockey?

    No. Though it makes me feel insulted and degraded because I appear to be as cowed as all these dedicated snowflakes, I agree to wear the goddam thing because I need to be reminded that I don’t know everything, I don’t get to make all the decisions if I am in a crowd of fellow citizens, I am on private property and the owner said to do this, and again, I don’t know everything.

    I keep wanting to change my mask to something ironic that states all that, so I can be the cool one who isn’t stupid like them. But then I remember two things: 1. they might be right – I’m not a scientist, just a reflexive skeptic. And 2. Why would I care to advertise my thoughts and motives through my mask? To expend the calories to do it would be like getting a bumper sticker printed up – who am I talking to, and why?

    *Though I confess that even in these matters I mostly take the humility route – though NOT the humble route – if you get the difference. Unless there’s a need to confront, to cause trouble, what is served by my getting in someone’s face with my awesomeness when they have quite enough to handle with their own awesomeness, as they are usually focused on. As it should be.

    Nice comment. While I share your feelings about masks, and would never wear one of the damned things if not for my concern about other people’s feelings and the legal status of the stores I frequent, I’d add that I have a vested interest in helping my fellow Americans feel confident about going shopping. I want the economy to recover, and if they feel safer with me wearing a mask, I’m willing to do that.

    Of course, per RushBabe’s comment, it’s possible that the masks will ultimately keep them more worried, not less. Again, we do the best we can.

     

    • #8
  9. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Does a domino count?

    • #9
  10. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):
    Wegmans

    💞

    • #10
  11. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    You can take others’ feelings into account, but you are not responsible for their feelings.

    I totally agree. And since I think I’m the author of the quote, let me clarify that I don’t feel responsible for anyone else’s feelings. Their feelings are totally their own, and the responsibility for dealing with those feelings does not lie with me. But I also know two things. One, many people are still terrified of catching the bug if they step foot outside their front door. Two, they need to step outside their front door and help get the economy going again and – eventually – life back to normal. So if my wearing a mask in the grocery store can help give them the confidence to step outside their front door and start that journey back to normal, it’s something I’m willing to do for awhile. Check with me again in a few months when attitudes have had more time to shift, and I may be feeling different. But those are my thought processes at the moment.

    • #11
  12. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    RushBabe, this is an academic point.  Unless you are someone like me, you should be able to read people via body language and expression to know if they are uncomfortable.  I had to work hard to get to the point of being okay at reading people, which you probably can do naturally.  If I walk in a room, and people show uncomfortable expressions, it is reasonable to conclude I was the cause.  It might be completely unjustified, but it is still an issue.

    This is aside from people actually telling you that they would really rather you wore a mask.  Technically, they could be lying, but I think you would not parse this so much if we talking about being stark naked.

    For me, this discussion is irrelevant.  I am required to wear a mask for work, and enforce masking.  Therefore, since I don’t want to be a hypocrite, I wear a mask regularly.

    • #12
  13. Buckpasser Member
    Buckpasser
    @Buckpasser

    Should I be comfortable wearing a mask at all times?  Will it ever be “safe” to not wear a mask?

    • #13
  14. Marythefifth Inactive
    Marythefifth
    @Marythefifth

    Seeing a few shoppers at Walmart not wearing a mask goes beyond making me comfortable. Maybe briefly delirious. It temporarily relieves some of my depression from the nearly 3 month lock down. Those rebels are doing me a favor. But I’ll go with the exposed nose so I can breath option and hope and pray all this fear vanishes soon. But I’m afraid that since covid-19 and bad flu share similar mortality rate and we still have the fear-mongering media, this mask wearing and viral distancing will be with us forever. Don’t look back at our way of life in February. It will just make you cry.

    • #14
  15. Old Buckeye Inactive
    Old Buckeye
    @OldBuckeye

    I’m basically in the “go along to get along” category. I don’t think they’re doing me a bit of good, but if wearing a mask allows me to get along with others so I can shop in peace, enter certain businesses, etc., then I’ll do it. The couple of times I went bare-faced to the grocery I felt compelled to rush around and grab what I could and get out because of the glares, so decided if I want to shop in a more leisurely fashion, I need to wear the mask. And because we moved from out of state and had to get new driver’s licenses, we had to follow the “protocol” at the DMV which was wear the mask, get your temperature taken, etc. They did let us take them off for the license photo, although my picture would have benefited from the mask.

    • #15
  16. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Old Buckeye (View Comment):

    I’m basically in the “go along to get along” category. I don’t think they’re doing me a bit of good, but if wearing a mask allows me to get along with others so I can shop in peace, enter certain businesses, etc., then I’ll do it. The couple of times I went bare-faced to the grocery I felt compelled to rush around and grab what I could and get out because of the glares, so decided if I want to shop in a more leisurely fashion, I need to wear the mask. And because we moved from out of state and had to get new driver’s licenses, we had to follow the “protocol” at the DMV which was wear the mask, get your temperature taken, etc. They did let us take them off for the license photo, although my picture would have benefited from the mask.

    • #16
  17. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Marythefifth (View Comment):

    Seeing a few shoppers at Walmart not wearing a mask goes beyond making me comfortable. Maybe briefly delirious. It temporarily relieves some of my depression from the nearly 3 month lock down. Those rebels are doing me a favor. But I’ll go with the exposed nose so I can breath option and hope and pray all this fear vanishes soon. But I’m afraid that since covid-19 and bad flu share similar mortality rate and we still have the fear-mongering media, this mask wearing and viral distancing will be with us forever. Don’t look back at our way of life in February. It will just make you cry.

    I don’t understand this mindset.  What is so horrendous about wearing a mask? 

    I am glad to see places open up again, and I am looking forward to working at work for once.  Please do not assume mask wearing equals eternal lockdowns – in fact, it is more likely to allow more businesses to open.  I’m getting my hair cut once I get some cash for the barber.

    • #17
  18. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    I don’t have the guts to do it, but there’s a part of me that wants to wear a mask like the one British Covid skeptic Peter Hitchens wears! Lol! 

     

    • #18
  19. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It seems to me that there’s a difference between knowing what will make others comfortable and making an educated guess about what might make others comfortable. I think rejecting the idea that we might make an effort to make others uncomfortable, based admittedly on our imperfect knowledge, is just a little bit, well, extreme.

    When I see someone wearing a mask it makes me uncomfortable, mostly because it leads me to infer that he or she might be a Karen. I might be wrong in that inference based on imperfect knowledge.

    Stick that in your “a bit, well, extreme” and smoke it. 

    • #19
  20. Sally Member
    Sally
    @Sally

    Everything is about back to normal in Alabama.   The majority are not wearing a mask.   I have worn a mask a few times because I still have a cough from a sinus infection that I have had since late March.   Better but still not quite gone.   And I have allergies.   I do not want to cough on anyone.   THAT would make me uncomfortable myself. 

    • #20
  21. Housebroken Coolidge
    Housebroken
    @Chuckles

    There may be a way to find out about someone else’s comfort:

    I have, from last week, begun to ask.  Not all the time, not everybody, but at the grocer’s; at the radiology center; at the medical supply store; at the hardware store; at the gas station; at the liquor store; at the restaurant which was a loser; at the trash collection service center. I have never – not once – gotten any response other than gratitude for the question and the followup conversation, and I have never, ever had anybody give me any hint that they are bothered by my not masking.  A couple of them were relieved to relocate their mask so as to protect their Adam’s apple, a couple of them made clear it was a condition of employment.  And I did notice at Lowes some of the employees sort of accidentally let it slip down off their nose. 

    I’m not saying nobody thinks I should wear a mask, just telling you my experience.

    • #21
  22. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Apparently MAGA masks are selling well on Etsy.

    • #22
  23. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    We are not responsible for anyone outside our immediate influence (ourselves, our children, other dependents).

    What we CAN be is compassionate and considerate… of our own volition.

    It isn’t taking responsibility for other’s feelings so much as recognizing the impact you have on the people around you.

    This applies to modesty, swearing, public bare breastfeeding, being honest, diplomacy, and sharing your own opinion. Interacting with people should always come with consideration, but there are limits and no one is responsible for others.

    But it means nothing if you are forced into it.

    I can measure my words carefully out of consideration, but it’s not my fault if they are offended and insulted. Their taking offense at the truth shouldn’t keep me from saying it, but it should affect the HOW.

    I’m someone who said something like the above, but I don’t wear it because I don’t get the feeling people are that uncomfortable being around people going maskless *in my area*.

    That could change based on where I am… and I do take my mask with me wherever I go just in case I need it. But so far, I’ve felt no such need.

    • #23
  24. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    I don’t understand this mindset. What is so horrendous about wearing a mask? 

    1.) They make breathing harder. Sometimes I get a little lightheaded when I’m in the grocery store wearing one, and I have to pause for a couple of moments and focus on breathing.

    2.) If you wear glasses, they cause your glasses to fog up sometimes.

    3.) You can’t interact with people as easily.

    I’m sure others can add to the list.

    • #24
  25. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    Not wearing a mask makes the Karens uncomfortable.

    The Karens’ glowering and hectoring make me uncomfortable.

    Why does their comfort trump mine?  Other than the matriarchal idea that nagging women should always be obeyed, I mean.

    • #25
  26. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):
    I fear the virus not at all, and think the mask-wearing is essentially 100% theater. (If that’s the right word – I’m not sure how to express this.)

    Virtue signalling

    • #26
  27. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    It’s the law here in IL, so I purchased a fishing neck gaiter on Amazon.  They do almost nothing to stop whatever the heck it is masks are supposed to stop, but at least they are reasonably comfortable and if it is hot out, you can get it wet and it acts as a cooling device.

    It’s a win-win.  I get to comply with the law and virtue signal in maximum comfort.

    • #27
  28. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    RushBabe49: Since mind-reading is impossible, so far, it is next to impossible to know what makes anyone else uncomfortable.

    A rare case where I disagree with you.

    It is easy to know what makes others uncomfortable in a radicalized, conformist political environment like this.

    It reminds me of a book I read by a man who was brought up as a privileged child of dedicated Chinese Communist parents and became a Red Guard. He tells of a scene where an enormous crowd, it may have even been a million maybe, had gathered in Beijing to catch a glimpse of Mao.

    To not scream hysterically in ecstasy was “what made everyone else uncomfortable”.

    When the Great Leader finally appeared in the distance from behind some wall, after hours of unbridled mob frenzy, the author was apparently tired of screaming hysterically. Taking a cue from some others he saw, he pretended to faint from unbearable happiness. Doing this “made others comfortable“, as he knew from a childhood and youth spent in indoctrination. He was tended to by admiring Comrades, and earned their respect.

    Wearing a mask in Costco makes others comfortable. Anyone who wasn’t bent into a state of submission would have quite possibly worn his mask a little below his nostrils so he could breathe comfortably. It would have cost nothing except that others would have noticed the lack of obedience and unquestioning faith in the new powers of the authorities.

    But in two recent trips, I saw not a single such cost-free, simple act of independence. I saw one woman with no mask on at all, and one small child in a stroller without one.

    People wearing mask outside of doctors offices, makes me feel uncomfortable. I find the 6 feet social distancing offensive.

    So who are you going to offend and make unconformable?

    I am not just being hyperbolic. I really am stressed and upset how we treat each other at work with people having massive signs saying stay away from me. I find extremely rude and the signs of someone who really needs professional help (or at lest it used to be).

    I really don’t see a lot of this stuff any different than how racist treat people they hate. If you examine the social behavior of a racist and a COVID Safety freaks. You will not see much of a difference other than the COVID freak treats almost everyone that way.

    Like I said before its a good think I lean libertarian. Otherwise I would want to make covering ones face in public against the law and claim its for safety reasons (when it just really because I hate it). Or lets put it this way I would not be update with a politicians for enacting laws against public face coverings. A bit hypocritical, I know but true.

    • #28
  29. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    Let put it this way. What we really are arguing is if Wearing a mask if a form of being polite. It sounds like most people don’t care. However some of us find it rude and extremely impolite. Other find it being polite and rude not to wear one.

     

    So what we really should be arguing is fundamentals. What standards and principles  should we have in regards to change what we consider polite behavior. That is what we really should be discussing. 

    • #29
  30. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Terry Mott (View Comment):

    Not wearing a mask makes the Karens uncomfortable.

    The Karens’ glowering and hectoring make me uncomfortable.

    Why does their comfort trump mine? Other than the matriarchal idea that nagging women should always be obeyed, I mean.

    It’s not like it’s not a question I haven’t asked.

    I mean, they are the quintessential judgy soccer mom. They have always been self absorbed and narcissistic.

    I ignore those.

    I’m more concerned about my friend who owns her own business, can’t afford insurance on her and her husband and has 4 kids… as well as a pre existing condition that makes her nervous about getting it because her family can’t afford this illness.

    It’s not that hard to discern a difference between a Karen and someone who is trying to function through their fear. They give off entirely different vibes.

    • #30
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