What’s Ellison’s Goal of Upping Charges for Chauvin?

 

What do hardcore leftists want? They want revolution. They want violence and mayhem. They want to tear down the whole system, so they can get in power and exact revenge. So color me skeptical that Keith Ellison was being a tool when he upped the charges against the police who killed George Floyd.

[Andrew McCarthy] believes Ellison might have just colossally screwed up his case against the cops. My words, not his. McCarthy called Ellison’s amended charges “dangerously flawed.”

He’s right that they’re dangerous. But from Ellison’s point of view, are they flawed or brilliant? Remember that the Los Angeles riots of 1992 were ignited by the acquittal of the police officers who beat up Rodney King.

Victoria Taft at PJMedia writes (article linked above) that “the most diabolical” part of Ellison’s order is that it signals to police that they will be charged with crimes for doing their jobs. She quotes McCarthy again.

By contrast, the new “felony murder” count, spearheaded by Keith Ellison, the radical leftist state attorney general, puts police on notice that they can be charged with a crime — felony assault — for doing their job, which routinely involves physically restraining suspects who resist lawful commands.

I agree with her that that’s pretty evil. But I suspect there’s an even more diabolical motive underlying his move:

An acquittal will incite more riots.

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  1. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    I have to say…I thought the same thing.

    • #1
  2. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    “What do hardcore leftists want? They want revolution. They want violence and mayhem. They want to tear down the whole system, so they can get in power and exact revenge.”

    Exactly right.

    What are the Hard Left politicians in Minnniesocold doing? Exploiting the crisis of course- can’t let a self made crisis go to waste of course but I think also there is a little CYA thrown in for good measure. 

    But the real question needs to be asked of the Hard Left Minneapolis City Council, why did all three cops criminally help to kill George Floyd? Why was that?  It was not just one bad apple, but three. Was George involved in some criminal money laundering scheme with the Cops and he threatened to expose them if they did not let go?  If not where was there training? Why was the initial charges filed so weak? Was there some criminal scheme that the DA felt had to be covered up?

    • #2
  3. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Unsk (View Comment):

    “What do hardcore leftists want? They want revolution. They want violence and mayhem. They want to tear down the whole system, so they can get in power and exact revenge.”

    Exactly right.

    What are the Hard Left politicians in Minnniesocold doing? Exploiting the crisis of course- can’t let a self made crisis go to waste of course but I think also there is a little CYA thrown in for good measure.

    But the real question needs to be asked of the Hard Left Minneapolis City Council, why did all three cops criminally help to kill George Floyd? Why was that? It was not just one bad apple, but three. Was George involved in some criminal money laundering scheme with the Cops and he threatened to expose them if they did not let go? If not where was there training? Why was the initial charges filed so weak? Was there some criminal scheme that the DA felt had to be covered up?

    I just can’t get behind any of this some-other-criminal-scheme idea.  I’ve seen enough movies (so I am an expert) to know that the cops always meet the guy while off duty, and in an alley somewhere.  They rarely decide to get their revenge or whatever it is spontaneously and on camera, in full view of a crowd.

    But we are living in strange times, so what do I know?

    • #3
  4. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    Unsk (View Comment):

    “What do hardcore leftists want? They want revolution. They want violence and mayhem. They want to tear down the whole system, so they can get in power and exact revenge.”

    Exactly right.

    What are the Hard Left politicians in Minnniesocold doing? Exploiting the crisis of course- can’t let a self made crisis go to waste of course but I think also there is a little CYA thrown in for good measure.

    But the real question needs to be asked of the Hard Left Minneapolis City Council, why did all three cops criminally help to kill George Floyd? Why was that? It was not just one bad apple, but three. Was George involved in some criminal money laundering scheme with the Cops and he threatened to expose them if they did not let go? If not where was there training? Why was the initial charges filed so weak? Was there some criminal scheme that the DA felt had to be covered up?

    I just can’t get behind any of this some-other-criminal-scheme idea. I’ve seen enough movies (so I am an expert) to know that the cops always meet the guy while off duty, and in an alley somewhere. They rarely decide to get their revenge or whatever it is spontaneously and on camera, in full view of a crowd.

    But we are living in strange times, so what do I know?

    I think Unsk is being Devil’s Advocate-y.  

    The hard left Minneapolis City Council  should be (and won’t be) asked the obvious questions that emerge from their own worldview. 

    If Chauvin et al are vicious racists, why were they hired in the first place? You can’t even blame a previous Republican -dominated government for that, since Minneapolis has been progressive for five decades. 

    If Chauvin et al are also so stupid that they commit their racist “lynching” (Cornell West’s term) in front of lots of citizens armed with I-phones, why is Minneapolis hiring deeply stupid people?

    If the officers who did not put their knees on Floyd’s neck, but also did not prevent Chauvin from doing so, whether out of sympathy with his behavior, or cowardice, why is the city of Minneapolis hiring cowards? If they were brand new hires who didn’t know better, why not? 

    If abolishing the police department is the obvious right move, why didn’t these clever people do it years ago, while the Lightbearer was in the White House?

    • #4
  5. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    I have to say…I thought the same thing.

    #metoo

    • #5
  6. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Upping the charges will (and should) result in acquittal.  At best, voluntary manslaughter seems to be appropriate and would be a shoe-in for a conviction.

    Stupid question:  If the other cops stood around and did nothing yet got charged, couldn’t the crowd watching be charged with the same thing?

    • #6
  7. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    The general belief is that in order to charge the other officers the prosecutors needed to up the charges against Chauvin.

    To oversimplify just a bit, the original complaint basically alleged negligence/recklessness by Chauvin. To create criminal liability for the others, intent was needed.

    • #7
  8. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Couldn’t it just be grandstanding?  If convicted, he looks better.  If acquitted, hey, it’s not his fault, it’s the systemic racism.  The thing that I keep forgetting, and doesn’t get any press is that only two of the four officers that were there and, I believe, have been charged were white.

    • #8
  9. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    The two rookies officers had been on the job for less than a week. The case against them will be weak. Their attorney’s should put the MPD on trial. Probationary officers can be fired at any time for any reason. They do not have any protection from their union, or from their department. The internal stress is one of the joys of police work, and unfortunately the two rookies found themselves involved with two experienced officers that will not only lose their careers, the rookies will as well.

    • #9
  10. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The thing that I keep forgetting, and doesn’t get any press is that only two of the four officers that were there and, I believe, have been charged were white.

    But it doesn’t matter what color the perpetrators are. The question is:

    Was their behavior, was their choice, a murder, a homicide, or some other level of negligent death. 

    Eliminating the use of color, black, white, minority as part of conversations seems the one, and easiest thing to change.

    We are talking how people treat other people. 

    • #10
  11. Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… Coolidge
    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo…
    @GumbyMark

    Yep. It’s a win-win situation for Ellison. 

    • #11
  12. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    The general belief is that in order to charge the other officers the prosecutors needed to up the charges against Chauvin.

    To oversimplify just a bit, the original complaint basically alleged negligence/recklessness by Chauvin. To create criminal liability for the others, intent was needed.

    Thank you for this. I had wondered about upping the charge against Mr. Chauvin, since it increases the probability of an acquittal. Much as I dislike Attorney General and political activist Keith Ellison, I am reluctant to ascribe to him a desire for more rioting in the event of an acquittal. But, by bringing the charges also against the other former officers, charges that seem to me unlikely to bring a conviction that sticks, and charges that would be politically difficult to plea down, it’s becoming harder to ascribe righteous motives to Mr. Ellison. 

    • #12
  13. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Stad (View Comment):
    Stupid question: If the other cops stood around and did nothing yet got charged, couldn’t the crowd watching be charged with the same thing?

    One officer seemed to do nothing, but the other two were on top of Floyd, one kneeling on his hips or legs and the other kneeling on his back. I would think the guy kneeling on his back would be constricting breathing even more than the one on his neck. These aren’t innocent by standers and people should expect more from the police officers who handcuffed the man and had him in their custody than random bystanders.

    To the point of this post though, overcharging could lead to terrible outcomes.

    • #13
  14. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    I expect there will be cases all over the country that will be intended to incite more violence and protests. Just watch.

    • #14
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    The two rookies officers had been on the job for less than a week. The case against them will be weak. Their attorney’s should put the MPD on trial. Probationary officers can be fired at any time for any reason. They do not have any protection from their union, or from their department. The internal stress is one of the joys of police work, and unfortunately the two rookies found themselves involved with two experienced officers that will not only lose their careers, the rookies will as well.

    I think that those two walk, or get hit with some minor charge. You are expecting one of them to intervene with the officer who is supposed to be showing you proper police procedure. What would be your basis for making that call? As for the other probationary officer, if his instructor/supervisor/partner doesn’t intervene, should you?

    • #15
  16. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The thing that I keep forgetting, and doesn’t get any press is that only two of the four officers that were there and, I believe, have been charged were white.

    But it doesn’t matter what color the perpetrators are. The question is:

    Was their behavior, was their choice, a murder, a homicide, or some other level of negligent death.

    Eliminating the use of color, black, white, minority as part of conversations seems the one, and easiest thing to change.

    We are talking how people treat other people.

    But the crime is really “racism!”  This is purportedly why we’ve been having the rioting.  Chauvin probably had less to do with Floyd’s death than the one kneeling on Floyd’s back (if positional suffocation was really the cause of death). But Chauvin is singled out as the main culprit because he was the one filmed, and because of his posture and reaction during the filming.

    Then again, the non-white cops just lend force to the charge of “systemic” racism.

    • #16
  17. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    I have to say…I thought the same thing.

    #metoo

    I commented on one thread the day the riots started, something to the effect of  “You think the riots are bad now, wait until they get acquitted”.

    It didn’t occur to me that the prosecutors would intentionally throw the case to trigger more riots though.

    Guess I’m not cynical enough.

     

     

    • #17
  18. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @WBob

    I think a good case can be made for first degree murder for Chauvin. At least it’s possible depending on how you interpret the video. A reasonable person could have concluded that Floyd was dying, thus making Chauvin’s continued kneeling on the neck intentional and premeditated murder at some point in the time he was doing it.

    What I can’t figure out, and haven’t heard anything about in all the news commentary, is what Chauvin was waiting for while he knelt on Floyd. 9 minutes or something. What was he waiting for? Why didn’t he put Floyd in the vehicle? Was he waiting for backup? 

    The new charges against Chauvin are interesting. As McCarthy points out in his article, they do not allege intentional murder, only second degree felony murder. I wonder if the legal doctrine of respondeat superior comes into Ellison’s thinking here. Under this legal doctrine, if a tort is intentional, it’s legally more difficult to find the employer of the person who commits the tort liable for damages. Not impossible, but harder. Maybe Ellison wants to make sure that the police and the city will be liable for damages, and so he hasn’t charged an intentional act. 

    • #18
  19. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    I don’t believe this makes it any more likely that Chauvin will simply walk–hence guaranteeing more riots.  The option will be there for the jury to find him guilty on the original charge–which seems likely to me.  Now, I suppose one could argue that merely doing that might incite discord, but likely not nearly on the level of a flat out acquittal.  And if the prosecution succeeds in getting a guilty verdict on second-degree, characterizing the restraint of Floyd as an “assault,” they’ve fired a shot across the bow of police procedure.

    I don’t think Tao will even come to trial, so the AG will have to explain that away.

    • #19
  20. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Bob W (View Comment):
    What I can’t figure out, and haven’t heard anything about in all the news commentary, is what Chauvin was waiting for while he knelt on Floyd. 9 minutes or something. What was he waiting for? Why didn’t he put Floyd in the vehicle? Was he waiting for backup?

    I have the same question.

    Since that is Chauvin’s internal world, what he was waiting for, I don’t expect well find out til the trial.

    When will the trial be? Please make it soon.

    • #20
  21. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @WBob

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Bob W (View Comment):
    What I can’t figure out, and haven’t heard anything about in all the news commentary, is what Chauvin was waiting for while he knelt on Floyd. 9 minutes or something. What was he waiting for? Why didn’t he put Floyd in the vehicle? Was he waiting for backup?

    I have the same question.

    Since that is Chauvin’s internal world, what he was waiting for, I don’t expect well find out til the trial.

    When will the trial be? Please make it soon.

    It’s one of these gaps in the coverage of the story. Like the missing video from between the time Floyd was standing on the sidewalk handcuffed and the time when he was under Chauvins knee. The video on the sidewalk appears to have been from a stationary surveillance camera, so the missing video must exist. Why isn’t it being shown?

    • #21
  22. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Stad (View Comment):
    Upping the charges will (and should) result in acquittal. At best, voluntary manslaughter seems to be appropriate and would be a shoe-in for a conviction.

    By overcharging, they may be trying to get a “compromise verdict” on the lesser charge against Chauvin. We see such things particularly in politically-charged cases where jurors face pressure to convict (public pressure or pressure in the jury room).

    A juror can still feel good about himself when convicting on the lesser charge (even without beyond a reasonable doubt evidence) if he can simultaneously acquit of the greater charge. Similarly, a juror may feel better about a dubious conviction of one defendant if he can acquit one or more of the others.

    In cases without pressure to convict, a bad greater charge is more likely to infect the lesser.

    • #22
  23. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge
    DonG (skeptic)
    @DonG

    I think Murder 1 is appropriate.  Chauvin choose to commit an act that is known to be deadly.  It is no different than if he had chosen to hold his head in a bucket of water.  Willfully choosing to commit a known deadly act is murder 1.  I did read through the Minneapolis use-of-force policies yesterday and city authored procedures are very lax.  Best-in-class cities explicitly forbid actions that restrict breathing.  Minneapolis does explicitly make arresting officers responsible for the health and safety of someone handcuffed.  At least one of the officers on the video was trained to roll George onto his side (a best practice), so we should assume that Chauvin was too. 

    I see the Mayor trying to blame the cops for his bad procedures.  Keith Ellison’s son is on that city council and he is not taking any blame for (1) lax police procedures (2) keeping Chauvin on the force despite 18 disciplinary actions.  I’d like to see Keith Ellison arrest his son and the mayor and charge them with civil rights violations.   Tyranny should not be tolerated anywhere in America.

    • #23
  24. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I think Murder 1 is appropriate. Chauvin choose to commit an act that is known to be deadly.

    We’ll part company here.  I see a difference between performing an act in a manner that results in death and performing an act known to be deadly.   If one believes that Chauvin was fully aware that his actions would result in Floyd’s death, I’d agree with you.  I don’t see proof of that.

     

    • #24
  25. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    I have to say…I thought the same thing.

    #metoo

    I commented on one thread the day the riots started, something to the effect of “You think the riots are bad now, wait until they get acquitted”.

    It didn’t occur to me that the prosecutors would intentionally throw the case to trigger more riots though.

    Guess I’m not cynical enough.

    MFW, I’m not a cynical person generally, but I have studied the neo-Marxist left. Revolution is its aim. Violence is its means. Ellison is hardcore.

     

     

    • #25
  26. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @WBob

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I think Murder 1 is appropriate. Chauvin choose to commit an act that is known to be deadly.

    We’ll part company here. I see a difference between performing an act in a manner that results in death and performing an act known to be deadly. If one believes that Chauvin was fully aware that his actions would result in Floyd’s death, I’d agree with you. I don’t see proof of that.

     

    It would also raise the question of what Chauvin’s motive would be for killing Floyd, and doing it right in front of a bunch of witnesses. I don’t think you need to prove motive for murder though.  Maybe he was just being sadistic and wanted to torture Floyd and didn’t think it would kill him. I don’t know. It’s very strange. His actions don’t make any sense. What is his defense going to be? He kept the knee on him for so long for no apparent reason, as Floyd was clearly unable to breathe and in pain. 

    • #26
  27. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I think Murder 1 is appropriate. Chauvin choose to commit an act that is known to be deadly. It is no different than if he had chosen to hold his head in a bucket of water. Willfully choosing to commit a known deadly act is murder 1. I did read through the Minneapolis use-of-force policies yesterday and city authored procedures are very lax. Best-in-class cities explicitly forbid actions that restrict breathing. Minneapolis does explicitly make arresting officers responsible for the health and safety of someone handcuffed. At least one of the officers on the video was trained to roll George onto his side (a best practice), so we should assume that Chauvin was too.

    I see the Mayor trying to blame the cops for his bad procedures. Keith Ellison’s son is on that city council and he is not taking any blame for (1) lax police procedures (2) keeping Chauvin on the force despite 18 disciplinary actions. I’d like to see Keith Ellison arrest his son and the mayor and charge them with civil rights violations. Tyranny should not be tolerated anywhere in America.

    Have you read the signed autopsy report? Whatever was shown on the videos, George died from the drugs he was on, according to the medical examiner — but what does he know?

    • #27
  28. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Bob W (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Bob W (View Comment):
    What I can’t figure out, and haven’t heard anything about in all the news commentary, is what Chauvin was waiting for while he knelt on Floyd. 9 minutes or something. What was he waiting for? Why didn’t he put Floyd in the vehicle? Was he waiting for backup?

    I have the same question.

    Since that is Chauvin’s internal world, what he was waiting for, I don’t expect well find out til the trial.

    When will the trial be? Please make it soon.

    It’s one of these gaps in the coverage of the story. Like the missing video from between the time Floyd was standing on the sidewalk handcuffed and the time when he was under Chauvins knee. The video on the sidewalk appears to have been from a stationary surveillance camera, so the missing video must exist. Why isn’t it being shown?

    Well, that’s a silly question. 

    It’s not being shown because it won’t fan the riot flames. 

    It sure can’t be about time, since the networks have had upward of 200 minutes of coverage. (PJ media stat, I think.)

    • #28
  29. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @WBob

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Bob W (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Bob W (View Comment):
    What I can’t figure out, and haven’t heard anything about in all the news commentary, is what Chauvin was waiting for while he knelt on Floyd. 9 minutes or something. What was he waiting for? Why didn’t he put Floyd in the vehicle? Was he waiting for backup?

    I have the same question.

    Since that is Chauvin’s internal world, what he was waiting for, I don’t expect well find out til the trial.

    When will the trial be? Please make it soon.

    It’s one of these gaps in the coverage of the story. Like the missing video from between the time Floyd was standing on the sidewalk handcuffed and the time when he was under Chauvins knee. The video on the sidewalk appears to have been from a stationary surveillance camera, so the missing video must exist. Why isn’t it being shown?

    Well, that’s a silly question.

    It’s not being shown because it won’t fan the riot flames.

    It sure can’t be about time, since the networks have had upward of 200 minutes of coverage. (PJ media stat, I think.)

    Well here’s one mystery solved. At about 5 minutes in you see them walk Floyd across the street toward a police car in the distance. I had assumed the knee on neck occurred right in front of this camera. Right before the video stops you see them trying to put Floyd in a car, I think, and he appears to fall to the ground. It’s hard to see but that’s what it looks like. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDd5GlrgvsE&feature=emb_rel_pause

     

     

    • #29
  30. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… (View Comment):

    Yep. It’s a win-win situation for Ellison.

    Yep.  If the cop gets off, there’ll be more riots across the country.  The left wins no matter what . . .

    • #30
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