Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. “Shoot ‘Em In The Leg”

 

Joe Biden offered up some training advice for our nation’s police officers. Around the one minute mark in the video above, the Democrat’s likely nominee gave an example of what they can do better. For instance, if an “unarmed person” is coming at you “with a knife,” police should shoot him in the leg, not the chest.

In the past, Biden suggested that you could defend your home by firing a shotgun in the air, which I guess is supposed to scare the intruder away. Now he is suggesting that you could neutralize a criminal by shooting their leg. Perhaps that could work in some cases, but legs are hard to hit. They move in a way a torso doesn’t and there are two of them, so if you aim for the middle you just might miss. And if that guy with a knife also has a gun on him? Well, he can still shoot you after you wound his leg.

I am certainly no gun expert, but shooting accurately while under pressure is a little more difficult than what you see in old cowboy movies. Rather than aiming for the leg, why not train the police to aim for the knife itself, and hit it in a way that it will fly out of the perpetrator’s hand and spin around until it cuts the rope that is holding up the chandelier. Then the chandelier will fall on the criminal’s head, knocking him out cold. Sounds like a workable plan.

PS. Looking at the background I wonder if Liberals are still looking to remove tax-exempt status from churches that mention politics?

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  1. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnellJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I’m surprised he didn’t also suggest allowing the bad guys with guns to take the first shot, like the sheriff used to do in the Saturday matinees when I was a kid.

    • #1
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:40 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  2. Bob Armstrong Thatcher

    I hate it when unarmed people come at me with knives!

    • #2
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:44 PM PDT
    • 19 likes
  3. Arahant Member

    Vance Richards: Rather than aiming for the leg, why not train the police to aim for the knife itself, and hit it in a way that it will fly out of the perpetrator’s hand and spin around until it cuts the rope that is holding up the chandelier. Then the chandelier will fall on the criminal’s head, knocking him out cold. Sounds like a workable plan.

    This, obviously.

    Has Joe ever fired a firearm? Has he done so under pressure? Has he even done so in a competition? I have. The targets were stationary. Still didn’t always hit them. Depending on the competition, distance, etc. most of the targets were about the size of a knee cap. If a lot of folks can’t hit one standing still under optimal conditions, how well will they do under much less optimal and more stressful conditions?

    Now, let’s talk about anatomy. Has Joe ever heard about the femoral artery? It’s in the leg. Being hit there is a great way to bleed out fast.

    There is a reason LEOs and military people are trained to aim for the center of mass.

    This is just a bad idea, Joe.

    • #3
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:44 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  4. Bob Thompson Member

    Joe’s been watching too many pre-1950 cowboy western movies.

    • #4
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:48 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  5. GrannyDude Member

    Dumba$$

    • #5
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:52 PM PDT
    • 15 likes
  6. Dotorimuk Coolidge

    Just the mask makes that cat look 30% more frail.

    • #6
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:54 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  7. Arahant Member

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Dumba$$

    Is that our UU minister from that blue state? 💖

    • #7
    • June 1, 2020, at 4:59 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  8. Doug Watt Moderator

    Really, unarmed. You shoot for center mass. The easiest party of the target to hit, even with being amped up with an adrenaline rush. There is a better chance of not throwing a round and hitting an innocent bystander. You carry hollow points, especially in urban areas because military ball ammunition is designed to penetrate more than one human being.

    Sometimes the suspect survives the shooting. I have no problem with that. There is no guarantee that hitting someone in the leg will keep someone from bleeding out. Obey the commands and live, put the knife down.

    • #8
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:03 PM PDT
    • 15 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  9. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Joe’s been watching too many pre-1950 cowboy western movies.

    I guess if Joe could remember seeing Spiderman, he would suggest cops shoot sticky webs at perps. 

    • #9
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:05 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  10. Arahant Member

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    You carry hollow points, especially in urban areas because military ball ammunition is designed to penetrate more than one human being.

    Was it Pancho Villa who used to save ammo by executing people lined up in threes so one .45 would go through the first two and hit the third?

    • #10
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:06 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  11. Henry Racette Contributor

    Okay, just to be fair to old Joe (a man I think is wrong about essentially everything, less likable than people think, increasingly senile, and crooked as they come), I’ll give him a pass on the bad shooting advice. I can easily imagine President Trump (for whom I reluctantly voted once and will eagerly vote again, and whose reelection I enthusiastically support) saying the same thing; it’s the kind of sounds-good nostrum I’d expect from someone who hasn’t given much thought to armed conflict and probably isn’t familiar with defensive shooting.

    • #11
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:07 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  12. Arahant Member

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Joe’s been watching too many pre-1950 cowboy western movies.

    I guess if Joe could remember seeing Spiderman, he would suggest cops shoot sticky webs at perps.

    Too new. He’s lost that already. He’s back to the 1950’s.

    • #12
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:07 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  13. Full Size Tabby Member

    That idiotic suggestion has been made many many times over several decades, and just about everybody with experience in stopping a violent criminal has explained why it’s an idiotic suggestion. That Mr. Biden is apparently seriously repeating the suggestion after so many years of knowledgeable people saying it’s an idiotic suggestion is yet another piece of evidence that Mr. Biden is woefully out of touch with reality. Compounding his equally idiotic suggestion about firing two blasts with a shotgun when an intruder approaches your property (as you noted).

    As to his more general point about all these supposedly wonderful ideas for “fundamentally changing” police training, if they are such good ideas and so do-able, why were none of them implemented during the previous Obama/Biden presidential administration?

    • #13
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:08 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  14. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul StinchfieldJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    In such an attack there is no time to waste shots: It takes only seconds for an attacker to close and begin stabbing or slashing. Joe may not know that he is an illustration of the Dunning Kruger Effect, but it’s hard to be sure since he has made a career of lying shamelessly.

    • #14
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:08 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  15. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul StinchfieldJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I can easily imagine President Trump … saying the same thing; it’s the kind of sounds-good nostrum I’d expect from someone who hasn’t given much thought to armed conflict and probably isn’t familiar with defensive shooting.

    I expect you are wrong: Joe Biden has spent his life with other insulated, privileged elite drones while Trump has spent his career working with all sorts of down to earth people in the construction business. I have no idea whether or not Trump owns firearms or has gone shooting but I’ve known people who have never owned firearms but who have joined the NRA.

    • #15
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:13 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  16. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul StinchfieldJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    I’m surprised he didn’t also suggest allowing the bad guys with guns to take the first shot, like the sheriff used to do in the Saturday matinees when I was a kid.

    Heh. I have seen liberals proclaim that it is “unfair” for a man with a gun to shoot an attacker with a knife (or a bat, or only fists and feet.) I never understood why it was evil for a good guy to shoot a bad guy intent on murder but that’s liberalism for you. Maimonides would shake his head.

    • #16
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:17 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  17. Henry Racette Contributor

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I can easily imagine President Trump … saying the same thing; it’s the kind of sounds-good nostrum I’d expect from someone who hasn’t given much thought to armed conflict and probably isn’t familiar with defensive shooting.

    I expect you are wrong: Joe Biden has spent his life with other insulated, privileged elite drones while Trump has spent his career working with all sorts of down to earth people in the construction business. I have no idea whether or not Trump owns firearms or has gone shooting but I’ve known people who have never owned firearms but who have joined the NRA.

    Well, you could be right. But I’m reluctant to bet against my President saying or tweeting something dumb. (Of course, that hasn’t stopped me from wearing the Trump2020 hat, a black one, when I’m out.)

    • #17
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:18 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  18. Doug Watt Moderator

    I had to qualify quarterly on the range as a police officer. Failure to qualify meant desk duty until you passed the course. What Joe Biden doesn’t understand, and probably doesn’t care about is that every police shooting that results in a death is a homicide. Every homicide is not a murder. They are two different things.

    Every shooting incident has its’ own set of circumstances, and evidence. There is no magic bullet that applies to every incident. I’ll post two different videos of two different shooting incidents. They should all be investigated, but Joe Biden is no authority on training. I do not remember Joe Biden wrestling around in the gutter with me at 0200 hours, or when someone took two shots at me and my partner. He said he was shooting at our car. I guess that’s okay. Please Joe, don’t tell me how I should have done my job.

    • #18
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:11 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  19. Jules PA Member

    Arahant (View Comment):
    Has Joe ever fired a firearm?

    Recently I read about him recommending emptying both chambers of a double barrel shotgun. Sure WISH he’d do that, might knock some sense into him. Or at least shut him up. 

    I liked it better when he was hiding in his basement. 

    • #19
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:21 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  20. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul StinchfieldJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    I’ll post two different videos of two different shooting incidents.

    That second shooting led to angry protests which characterized the officer’s attacker as a “martyr”. Evidence did not matter to these fanatics:

    “A tragic officer-involved shooting of a black man has sparked nearly two weeks of activist marches and cries for justice in St. Paul, Minnesota. Angry protesters demanding police transparency have flooded the city’s streets and added 31-year-old Ronald K. Davis to their list of ‘martyred’ African American males ‘unlawfully’ shot and killed by police.
    . . .
    According to a release from the Anti-Police Brutality Coalition, as reported by KMSP FOX 9: … “It is unclear from the limited body camera footage what types of de-escalation tactics were used by Officer Mattson, why he fell to the ground, why his flashlight fell, and whether he attempted to use nonlethal force before using deadly force against Ronald Davis,” the coalition wrote in the release. “The public also has a right to demand an independent investigation in police shooting cases in Minnesota, given the relative frequency within which they have been occurring the disproportionate rate of Black men and other men of color being killed by police.”

    It is not disproportionate in relation to the rate at which black men commit crimes, but one of the demands of “equity” activists is that actual crime rates should be ignored when it comes to arrest and punishment: either lots of black criminals should be allowed to continue preying on their neighbors or lots of innocent white and Asian people should be railroaded. (This is perhaps the most dramatic illustration of the moral depravity of “equity”.) Groups like BLM want to make self-defense illegal. People like Joe Biden just want to continue being grifters.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • #20
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:37 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  21. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul StinchfieldJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    You shoot for center mass.

    I have heard of attackers continuing to attack after being hit multiple times in the torso until finally their bodies are unable to obey the adrenaline and they collapse. Thus, one can be murdered by an attacker who will die a few seconds after you do.

    • #21
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:41 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  22. Jon1979 Lincoln

    Arahant (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Joe’s been watching too many pre-1950 cowboy western movies.

    I guess if Joe could remember seeing Spiderman, he would suggest cops shoot sticky webs at perps.

    Too new. He’s lost that already. He’s back to the 1950’s.

    Saw a re-run of “Castle” last night, where the officer being targeted by the killer had her life saved when another officer shot the gun out of the killer’s hand. Since “Castle” aired from 2009-16, we can probably assume it was standard viewing fare at the vice-presidential residence, as a real-world example of how law enforcement can subdue a threat.

    • #22
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:44 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  23. CACrabtree Coolidge

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    I’m surprised he didn’t also suggest allowing the bad guys with guns to take the first shot, like the sheriff used to do in the Saturday matinees when I was a kid.

    Hey, it worked for the Lone Ranger. Plus, he always shot the weapon out of the bad guy’s hand every time. See? Problem solved.

    • #23
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:47 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  24. Henry Racette Contributor

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    You shoot for center mass.

    I have heard of attackers continuing to attack after being hit multiple times in the torso until finally their bodies are unable to obey the adrenaline and they collapse. Thus, one can be murdered by an attacker who will die a few seconds after you do.

    It’s pretty astounding what it actually takes to stop a determined attacker with a handgun — one who doesn’t simply accept the fact that he’s been shot as reason to stop. It generally requires either hitting the central nervous system (brain or spine), or causing enough blood loss to disable the assailant. I forget the number, but as I recall it’s a significant double-digit percentage, on the order of 25% or more. Shooting to “wing” someone is never a good idea. (It also, paradoxically, leaves you open for legal liability, since it communicates the idea that perhaps you were using deadly force when you thought it wasn’t appropriate.)

    • #24
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:55 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  25. Doug Watt Moderator

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    You shoot for center mass.

    I have heard of attackers continuing to attack after being hit multiple times in the torso until finally their bodies are unable to obey the adrenaline and they collapse. Thus, one can be murdered by an attacker who will die a few seconds after you do.

    It’s pretty astounding what it actually takes to stop a determined attacker with a handgun — one who doesn’t simply accept the fact that he’s been shot as reason to stop. It generally requires either hitting the central nervous system (brain or spine), or causing enough blood loss to disable the assailant. I forget the number, but as I recall it’s a significant double-digit percentage, on the order of 25% or more. Shooting to “wing” someone is never a good idea. (It also, paradoxically, leaves you open for legal liability, since it communicates the idea that perhaps you were using deadly force when you thought it wasn’t appropriate.)

    What will happen in a shooting situation is that you will keep pulling the trigger until you have emptied the magazine, especially if your subject doesn’t fall right away. I’m more familiar with the Glock 17. I can empty that Glock of 18 rounds in a matter of seconds. One was up the spout as the British would say, 17 rounds were in the magazine. On a good range you’ll drop that magazine on the ground without taking your eye off the target, and insert a second magazine. By the way the S&W 686 is still one of the best guns I’ve ever owned.

    In the first video if you look closely the Trooper will put the car in park with his weak hand, and keeps his gun in his strong hand, and his pistol is aimed towards the target as he gets out of the car.

    Sometimes in a shootout the subject will have one or two entry wounds in the back. As the officer returns fire there is a tendency for the suspect to turn his back, lower his body, and turn away from the officer to try and protect their head from the shots coming from the officer.

    • #25
    • June 1, 2020, at 7:26 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  26. Sisyphus Coolidge
    SisyphusJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Vance Richards: PS. Looking at the background I wonder if Liberals are still looking to remove tax-exempt status from churches that mention politics?

    He’s really spruced up his basement. Looks like he’s preparing for the papacy. 

    • #26
    • June 1, 2020, at 9:26 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  27. Paul Erickson Inactive

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Dumba$$

    My nominee for the most accurate comment in the fewest words!

    • #27
    • June 2, 2020, at 5:31 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  28. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White MaleJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Paul Erickson (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Dumba$$

    My nominee for the most accurate comment in the fewest words!

    And knowing who the commenter is makes it 10x as good.

     

    • #28
    • June 2, 2020, at 5:44 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  29. Buckpasser Member
    BuckpasserJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Joe’s been watching too many pre-1950 cowboy western movies.

    I guess if Joe could remember seeing Spiderman, he would suggest cops shoot sticky webs at perps.

    Too new. He’s lost that already. He’s back to the 1950’s.

    As I recall shooting to wound was exactly what every “lying dog faced pony soldier” used to do back in the day.

    • #29
    • June 2, 2020, at 6:58 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  30. E. Kent Golding Member

    Sisyphus (hears Xi laughing) (View Comment):

    Vance Richards: PS. Looking at the background I wonder if Liberals are still looking to remove tax-exempt status from churches that mention politics?

    He’s really spruced up his basement. Looks like he’s preparing for the papacy.

    I actually would support Biden for the Papacy. Keep him away from the USA, and Francis is no prize.

    • #30
    • June 2, 2020, at 7:21 AM PDT
    • 3 likes