Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. ‘Dressed Right For A Beach Fight’

 

Okay folks it’s called pain compliance for a reason. Protected speech is not: vandalism, theft, arson, assaults, or blocking traffic. Once the first bottle or brick is thrown, when the first window is smashed, or fire has started then the party is over.

If the front line of the crowd is protecting those throwing objects, and committing crimes then you have to break that line. Impact munitions such as rubber bullets, round rubber balls are best. They bounce off the pavement and are about groin high when they hit the crowd.

Chemical agents such as pepper ball rounds and tear gas rounds should be deployed as well. Up close and personal becomes “stick time” for those who are slow learners and didn’t leave the area to avoid the impact munitions, or chemical agents.

If TV crews don’t have the brains to stand alongside, or just behind the police lines when the rubber bullets fly that’s just too bad for them.

These are drastic measures but you must break the “we” mentality of the mob when they become rioters, and replace it with the “I” mentality. Like “I” need to get out here because “I’m” going to get hurt. Yes, it’s ugly, but it’s necessary.

The usual suspects in city, state, and the federal governments will whine and complain about these measures. You cannot reason with the usual suspects anymore than you can reason with the mob. They lock-up hairdressers that want to go back to work, surfers, beachgoers, and parents that want to take their kids to the park. And they release prison inmates instead.

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  1. Bruce Caward Thatcher
    Bruce Caward Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Yep.

    Plus, we have them on film. Why do we not systematically go after and prosecute every single person that can be identified? A year later, when the cops show up with the footage and pull you out of class and arrest you, because they are working through the list, you might rethink your blind, trendy support of Antifa.

    Convictions should be swift and very public. The sentences should be a year or two on a work gang replacing windows and scrubbing graffiti. You can resume college later.

    • #1
    • May 31, 2020, at 9:18 AM PDT
    • 23 likes
  2. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

     

    Doug Watt: “We” mentality of the mob and replace it with the “I” mentality.

    The mob mentality is reptilian and cannot be reasoned with. I like the phrase “Persons are smart and people are stupid.”

    • #2
    • May 31, 2020, at 9:26 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  3. James Gawron Thatcher
    James Gawron Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Doug Watt: The usual suspects in city, state, and the federal government will whine and complain about these measures. You cannot reason with the usual suspects anymore than you can reason with the mob. They lock-up hair dressers that want to go back to work, surfers, beachgoers, and parents that want to take their kids to the park. They release prison inmates instead.

    Doug,

    The tactics must fit the mob. I noticed in a number of cities it appeared the “mob” was much better directed and organized than a normal mob. The police tried to just contain them. As soon as the “mob” realized they couldn’t get past the police they went looking for more targets to destroy. Not a few of them at a time but hundreds at a time. Some “‘mob”.

    I said it before and I’ll say it again. These aren’t protestors, this isn’t a riot, and this isn’t what you normally think of as a mob. These are domestic terrorists with a command structure, with tactical ideas, and with targets of opportunity that they are going after.

    Whatever they are they deserve what they get and probably a lot more.

    Regards,

    Jim

     

    • #3
    • May 31, 2020, at 11:36 AM PDT
    • 15 likes
  4. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    When I saw the photos of crowds lying down in the streets in the center of Portland last night, my first thought was, “Where are the fire hoses?” Not the Jim Crow treatment, but just wet them down enough to make them uncomfortable enough to move on.

    • #4
    • May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  5. GrannyDude Member

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    When I saw the photos of crowds lying down in the streets in the center of Portland last night, my first thought was, “Where are the fire hoses?” Not the Jim Crow treatment, but just wet them down enough to make them uncomfortable enough to move on.

    I have evil thoughts…like dressing up in black, and handing out tubes of superglue. Once they’ve all glued themselves to the pavement, turn off the streetlights and go home.

     

    Sorry. I’ll resume normal programming in a minute…

    • #5
    • May 31, 2020, at 11:58 AM PDT
    • 15 likes
  6. Ray Kujawa Coolidge

    Bruce Caward (View Comment):
    Plus, we have them on film. Why do we not systematically go after and prosecute every single person that can be identified?

    Watching KOMO live TV coverage of rioting in downtown Seattle last night, 99% of people visible were wearing face coverings. Outdoors. Which is where they are not necessary to prevent the spread of respiratory illnesses because it’s almost impossible to infect someone outdoors. Face coverings might inhibit the spread of respiratory contagion when you go indoors to frequent a business, but all businesses downtown were closed. Maybe there were some public bathrooms available. But encouraging or permitting face coverings in a very public venue is an invitation to lawlessness. How positive can those suspects be identified on film unless it is by one of their compadres?

    • #6
    • May 31, 2020, at 12:57 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  7. Ray Kujawa Coolidge

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    As soon as the “mob” realized they couldn’t get past the police they went looking for more targets to destroy. Not a few of them at a time but hundreds at a time. Some “‘mob”.

    On KOMO news live coverage of downtown Seattle, they use the expression “splintering” to avoid pursuit by police. Another thing that is done is directing the mob by yelling (e.g., “Fifth Avenue”, followed by those within earshot moving to follow new developments, presumably what had newly been broken into and where police were not).

    Another obviously thought through tactic was to siege Seattle’s downtown police station, which is walking distance from the area of main commotion between Fifth and Sixth avenues. Some apparently were pelting the station while violence elsewhere (several cars were set afire), while the police lay hunkered down and were slow to respond, after the curfew declared by the mayor for 5 p.m. The police finally made themselves visible after returning fire and scattering the sieging crowd, moving into the hot zone with bikes, riot gear, night sticks, body cams, etc. It was after to 6:30 p.m. when the first tear gas rounds were released. 

    • #7
    • May 31, 2020, at 1:10 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  8. Ray Kujawa Coolidge

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    When I saw the photos of crowds lying down in the streets in the center of Portland last night, my first thought was, “Where are the fire hoses?” Not the Jim Crow treatment, but just wet them down enough to make them uncomfortable enough to move on.

    There was a continuous, steady rain in downtown Seattle. Nobody was going to lie down. It must not have been raining in Portland. But I like the idea of artificial sprinkles.

    • #8
    • May 31, 2020, at 1:13 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  9. Ontheleftcoast Member

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    Bruce Caward (View Comment):
    Plus, we have them on film. Why do we not systematically go after and prosecute every single person that can be identified?

    Watching KOMO live TV coverage of rioting in downtown Seattle last night, 99% of people visible were wearing face coverings. Outdoors. Which is where they are not necessary to prevent the spread of respiratory illnesses because it’s almost impossible to infect someone outdoors. Face coverings might inhibit the spread of respiratory contagion when you go indoors to frequent a business, but all businesses downtown were closed. Maybe there were some public bathrooms available. But encouraging or permitting face coverings in a very public venue is an invitation to lawlessness. How positive can those suspects be identified on film unless it is by one of their compadres?

    Eric Clanton, the (update: mask wearing) Antifa/BAMN bike lock assailant in Berkeley was identified by crowd sourced image analysis on 4chan. It can be done. Whether government resources are allocated to do it is a political decision.

    • #9
    • May 31, 2020, at 2:51 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  10. Cosmik Phred Member

    If only this involved Mods and Rockers. Sigh.

    • #10
    • May 31, 2020, at 3:46 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  11. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt

    Cosmik Phred (View Comment):

    If only this involved Mods and Rockers. Sigh.

    Yes indeed. I consider The Who as one of the great British bands. Perhaps the best. I’ve called some of my posts about my personal experiences as a police officer; “Broken Glass Stories.”

    And on the dance floor broken glass,
    And bloody faces slowly pass,
    The numbered seats in empty rows,
    It all belongs to me you know. – The Who

    • #11
    • May 31, 2020, at 3:58 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  12. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    When I saw the photos of crowds lying down in the streets in the center of Portland last night, my first thought was, “Where are the fire hoses?” Not the Jim Crow treatment, but just wet them down enough to make them uncomfortable enough to move on.

    Why not water cannons? Back when Japan had more young men, they used to have riots. Maybe they have a few for sale.

    • #12
    • May 31, 2020, at 5:04 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  13. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    Bruce Caward (View Comment):
    Plus, we have them on film. Why do we not systematically go after and prosecute every single person that can be identified?

    Watching KOMO live TV coverage of rioting in downtown Seattle last night, 99% of people visible were wearing face coverings. Outdoors. Which is where they are not necessary to prevent the spread of respiratory illnesses because it’s almost impossible to infect someone outdoors. Face coverings might inhibit the spread of respiratory contagion when you go indoors to frequent a business, but all businesses downtown were closed. Maybe there were some public bathrooms available. But encouraging or permitting face coverings in a very public venue is an invitation to lawlessness. How positive can those suspects be identified on film unless it is by one of their compadres?

    DNA. All you need is some blood.

    • #13
    • May 31, 2020, at 5:05 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  14. WilliamDean Coolidge

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

     

    Doug Watt: “We” mentality of the mob and replace it with the “I” mentality.

    The mob mentality is reptilian and cannot be reasoned with. I like the phrase “Persons are smart and people are stupid.”

    “None of us is as dumb as all of us.”

    • #14
    • May 31, 2020, at 5:43 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  15. MarciN Member

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    Bruce Caward (View Comment):
    Plus, we have them on film. Why do we not systematically go after and prosecute every single person that can be identified?

    Watching KOMO live TV coverage of rioting in downtown Seattle last night, 99% of people visible were wearing face coverings. Outdoors. Which is where they are not necessary to prevent the spread of respiratory illnesses because it’s almost impossible to infect someone outdoors. Face coverings might inhibit the spread of respiratory contagion when you go indoors to frequent a business, but all businesses downtown were closed. Maybe there were some public bathrooms available. But encouraging or permitting face coverings in a very public venue is an invitation to lawlessness. How positive can those suspects be identified on film unless it is by one of their compadres?

    Eric Clanton, the (update: mask wearing) Antifa/BAMN bike lock assailant in Berkeley was identified by crowd sourced image analysis on 4chan. It can be done. Whether government resources are allocated to do it is a political decision.

    I can’t help thinking of the mobs that formed and wrecked Boston one year after some one of our teams won some pennant or national championship. As I’m thinking about it, it was probably a Red Sox win in the World Series given that the colleges were in session and the weather was still nice enough that the streets were filled with people late at night.

    The ending of the story is pretty funny, actually. The heart of the mob action was in the streets around Northeastern University. Northeastern has one of the best criminal justice college and graduate programs in the country. It is also a huge part of Boston proper. A tiny university that started out as a night school in the upstairs rooms of a dorm for young men that a Christian group (YMCA maybe?) had set up in Boston, it has grown to occupy a huge part of the city in terms of real estate. It’s gotta be a quarter of the city. :-)

    Naturally the streets around the university had and have state-of-the-art surveillance cameras along all the streets in those neighborhoods. How do you teach students how to use this technology? You have the real thing. :-)

    So even though it was late at night, the cameras took unbelievably clear pictures of who did what. Let the expulsions from college begin! :-) The police were able to use the photographs from these camera systems to identify individuals and prosecute them. I saw some of the pictures from these camera systems, and they were crystal clear.

    Scary since I do not like the surveillance state. But I also don’t like the mob-formation that social media aids and abets. So I guess it’s one technology against another. Checks and balances in a weird way. :-)

    Anyway, the arrests were pretty funny. The miscreants were rather surprised. :-)

    • #15
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:42 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  16. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    Bruce Caward (View Comment):
    Plus, we have them on film. Why do we not systematically go after and prosecute every single person that can be identified?

    Watching KOMO live TV coverage of rioting in downtown Seattle last night, 99% of people visible were wearing face coverings. Outdoors. Which is where they are not necessary to prevent the spread of respiratory illnesses because it’s almost impossible to infect someone outdoors. Face coverings might inhibit the spread of respiratory contagion when you go indoors to frequent a business, but all businesses downtown were closed. Maybe there were some public bathrooms available. But encouraging or permitting face coverings in a very public venue is an invitation to lawlessness. How positive can those suspects be identified on film unless it is by one of their compadres?

    Eric Clanton, the (update: mask wearing) Antifa/BAMN bike lock assailant in Berkeley was identified by crowd sourced image analysis on 4chan. It can be done. Whether government resources are allocated to do it is a political decision.

    I can’t help thinking of the mobs that formed and wrecked Boston one year after some one of our teams won some pennant or national championship. As I’m thinking about it, it was probably a Red Sox win in the World Series given that the colleges were in session and the weather was still nice enough that the streets were filled with people late at night.

    snipped

    Naturally the streets around the university had and have state-of-the-art surveillance cameras along all the streets in those neighborhoods. How do you teach students how to use this technology? You have the real thing. :-)

    So even though it was late at night, the cameras took unbelievably clear pictures of who did what. Let the expulsions from college begin! :-) The police were able to use the photographs from these camera systems to identify individuals and prosecute them. I saw some of the pictures from these camera systems, and they were crystal clear.

    Scary since I do not like the surveillance state. But I also don’t like the mob-formation that social media aids and abets. So I guess it’s one technology against another. Checks and balances in a weird way. :-)

    Anyway, the arrests were pretty funny. The miscreants were rather surprised. :-)

    Why do you think Antifa wear masks ?

    • #16
    • June 1, 2020, at 7:05 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  17. Ray Kujawa Coolidge

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):
    Why do you think Antifa wear masks ?

    They have day jobs.

    • #17
    • June 1, 2020, at 9:08 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  18. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):
    Why do you think Antifa wear masks ?

    They have day jobs.

    A few do, aside from anarchy. Like this teacher in middle school in Berkeley.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/antifa-leader-teacher-yvonne-felarca-arrested-at-empathy-tent-berkeley-brawl

     

    • #18
    • June 1, 2020, at 12:32 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  19. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Doug Watt: Protected speech is not: vandalism, theft, arson, assaults, or blocking traffic

    I would think that someone who chooses to block traffic has given non-verbal consent that they wish to be a speed bump and no one should be punished for treating then as such.

    Anyway, I have a feeling nobody is going to be offering me a job as a judge, but I still think I could be effective.

    • #19
    • June 1, 2020, at 3:04 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  20. Kay of MT Member

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    • #20
    • June 1, 2020, at 5:19 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  21. Weeping Member

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    So would she rather see the rioting and looting continue? Because many of the areas seem poised to be burned to the ground if some kind of intervention isn’t undertaken.

    • #21
    • June 1, 2020, at 6:42 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  22. Kay of MT Member

    @weeping, she is a “never Trump” as well as a “socialist/communist” fan of Bernie. She says she is afraid, makes terrible remarks about Trump, knows nothing about him. She is in her late 70s, so should know better. I don’t think she is aware of the after effects of not putting a stop to the riots.

    • #22
    • June 1, 2020, at 7:54 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  23. James Gawron Thatcher
    James Gawron Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    Kay,

    America is no different about the imposing of martial law. What is different about America is that martial law will be lifted as soon as it is possible to do so. At least with a Trump as President, I’m still confident of this.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #23
    • June 1, 2020, at 7:57 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  24. Weeping Member

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    @weeping, she is a “never Trump” as well as a “socialist/communist” fan of Bernie. She says she is afraid, makes terrible remarks about Trump, knows nothing about him. She is in her late 70s, so should know better. I don’t think she is aware of the after effects of not putting a stop to the riots.

     

    Sigh. 

    • #24
    • June 1, 2020, at 8:34 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  25. Kay of MT Member

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    @weeping, she is a “never Trump” as well as a “socialist/communist” fan of Bernie. She says she is afraid, makes terrible remarks about Trump, knows nothing about him. She is in her late 70s, so should know better. I don’t think she is aware of the after effects of not putting a stop to the riots.

     

    Sigh.

    Exactly Me! when ever I talk to her.

    • #25
    • June 1, 2020, at 9:08 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  26. Quietpi Member

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):
    How positive can those suspects be identified on film unless it is by one of their compadres?

    A very effective means of identification, but usually ignored even by the experts, is ears. A drawback is that as far as I know, there’s no court precedent in using ears as identification. But it can constitute a part of probable cause.

    • #26
    • June 2, 2020, at 10:43 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    So would she rather see the rioting and looting continue? Because many of the areas seem poised to be burned to the ground if some kind of intervention isn’t undertaken.

    I would. Trump needs to stay out of it and let the locals handle unless help is requested. People should get the government they elect.

    • #27
    • June 2, 2020, at 3:16 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  28. Weeping Member

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    So would she rather see the rioting and looting continue? Because many of the areas seem poised to be burned to the ground if some kind of intervention isn’t undertaken.

    I would. Trump needs to stay out of it and let the locals handle unless help is requested. People should get the government they elect.

    I understand and even agree (a bit) with the sentiment. The problem is, there are people being affected who didn’t vote for the government they’re having to live with.

    • #28
    • June 2, 2020, at 3:36 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  29. Percival Thatcher
    Percival Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    So would she rather see the rioting and looting continue? Because many of the areas seem poised to be burned to the ground if some kind of intervention isn’t undertaken.

    I would. Trump needs to stay out of it and let the locals handle unless help is requested. People should get the government they elect.

    Mortars, Gracie?

    Does she have any idea what a mortar is? What it does?

    • #29
    • June 2, 2020, at 3:43 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  30. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    From my cousin after President Trump’s announcement:

    “It looks like you have ‘won.’ Trump just declared what amounts to martial law throughout the country, promising to use the full force of our military to enforce a 7 o’clock curfew throughout the nation. Expect to see tanks and mortars in the streets across the United States. Martial law, as far as I am concerned, is his road-map to complete control of the country, and a direct road to total dictatorship. Congratulations! You can kiss our democracy goodbye.”

    I wrote her back that when President Trump lifts the curfew she will be alive to enjoy another day.

    So would she rather see the rioting and looting continue? Because many of the areas seem poised to be burned to the ground if some kind of intervention isn’t undertaken.

    I would. Trump needs to stay out of it and let the locals handle unless help is requested. People should get the government they elect.

    I understand and even agree (a bit) with the sentiment. The problem is, there are people being affected who didn’t vote for the government they’re having to live with.

    Half of us always live under the government we did not vote for. That is how democracy works. If we get upset about that are we any better than the Left?

    • #30
    • June 2, 2020, at 5:59 PM PDT
    • 1 like