Is There an Unreasonable Fear of Black Men?

 

When viral videos of conflicts between blacks and law enforcement officers, blacks being harassed by white women comedically known as “Karens,” or blacks being criminally profiled by overzealous white males are released, I make it a point to say as little as possible – especially on social media.

Generally, it’s very difficult to know what ensued and render judgment on what happened – and what should happen to achieve “justice” with minimal information provided in a 15-, 20-, or 25-second video clip. The Rodney King debacle should’ve taught us as much (but didn’t). Additional evidence is needed to help contextualize the incident for a better understanding of what exactly occurred and then, what should or shouldn’t happen to the relevant actors going forward. Ideally, prudence would dictate patience until supplementary evidence is made available before people dispense their verdicts and punishments.

That brings me to the recent case of Ahmaud Arbery.

For a number of reasons, the reactions to this case have been noticeably different than previous cases of what’s too easily pigeonholed as racially abusive interactions between blacks and whites. Predictably, the episode has divided conservatives and progressives. But this case has also divided black conservatives and white conservative; white conservatives and white conservatives (seen on social media), and black conservatives from other black conservatives. The same can’t be said about internal divisions between progressives because they uniformly believe that systemic racism is the omnipotent, omnipresent force that thwarts, hunts, and kills American blacks out of obligation to maintain white supremacy.

What’s behind this diversification of internal reactions among conservatives won’t be investigated here. Instead, I want to address David French’s recent opinion about what he claims is responsible for the killing of black men.

In Time magazine, French argues that “unreasonable fear” is why black men are being killed in America. Unlike an earlier piece in The Dispatch where French detailed a very well-reasoned case against Travis and Gregory McMichaels and their justification for following, confronting, and killing Arbery, here he claims that racially unjustified shootings of black men, mostly by cops, reflects America’s guilt for reinforcing the association of fear with black men.

After a brief list of examples of police-involved shootings – including the Trayvon Martin case (in which George Zimmerman was not a cop but an overzealous leader of his neighborhood watch program), French claims a sizable portion of the country – like the cops in the examples he cites, shares the view that black men unjustifiably represent “outsize perceptions of threat and danger.”

Is this really the case? Does there exist an unreasonable fear of black men that prompts itchy trigger fingers among (white) Americans?

David French thinks so. He says,

[T]here are Americans who would never pick up a weapon and try to track down a black man running on the street–or follow a young black man on a rainy night–but they understand and sympathize with those who do.

He continues,

I realized that all too many of these cases carried with them a dreadful double injustice. There was the awful death itself. Then there was the public declaration that there was something right about the alarm and even terror that triggered deadly violence.

It’s that second injustice that helps perpetuate the cycle of violence. It teaches a new American generation that when black men do even small things, then there is a reason to grab a gun–and even to fire that gun. The battle for hearts and minds must continue. It must be relentless and urgent–until at long last there is no real market for rationalization. After all, there is no reason a walk through a neighborhood at night [that]… should create in any American that terrible and fatal sense of unreasonable fear.

Is this true?

Granted, there are some who are guilty of this accusation. Some in this contingent are also legitimately racist. But is this group large enough to slander with broad strokes enough Americans for this accusation to be true by default?

Ultimately, I think the answer is found with French’s strategic but disingenuous use of the word “unreasonable.”

At this point in his journalistic career, David French has reached the point where he may have a say in the titles of his columns that are published in traditional news and commentary outlets.

In regard to this article, for argument’s sake, let’s say he did. If so, the title and a significant portion of his thesis is deliberately misleading.

French only cites obvious cases in which law enforcement officers acted too impulsively (Philando Castile) or in the case of Walter Scott, immorally. But he deliberately ignores a number of other cases that grabbed national attention in which the black men who were shot posed risks to the officers involved including:

  • Michael Brown, who robbed a convenience store and tried to grab the gun of an officer that confronted him and a companion. The officer involved (Darren Wilson) shot Brown in self-defense – actions that were later legitimized by a DOJ investigation; and
  • Stephon Clark, who matched the description of a man vandalizing cars in his neighborhood when officers were called. After a search and pursuit (which included a police helicopter), Clark tried to evade arrest. When confronted by officers, Clark ignored orders to submit, turned toward cops with what looked a gun (a cell phone), and was shot dead.

Additionally, the Trayvon Martin case isn’t so easily dismissed as another instance of an unreasonable threat. Let’s not forget why George Zimmerman followed Martin to begin with, and why a neighborhood watch was even necessary in the community where the deadly altercation took place.

A fact that wasn’t shared too widely was that the gated community where Zimmerman lived had been robbed – at least eight times in the 14 months before the altercation. Several of the victims and witnesses described the thieves as being young black men, and unfortunately, Martin fit that description. I’m not defending Zimmerman’s actions on that fateful evening. However, one should be able to understand the frustration, insecurity, and desire of community residents to stop thieves from taking that which is not theirs.

But more to the point. French intentionally ignores what gives life to the regrettable stereotype with which he finds fault: the sad and frustrating fact that 2 to 3 percent of the black population commits a disparate percentage of violent crime.

I’m not defending the vigilantism of the McMichaels which led to the killing of Ahmaud Arbery and I’m certainly not saying that Arbery deserved to die.

I’m simply noting what is obvious to those who value intellectual honesty: that the criminal activity of a disproportionately small subset of black men negatively stigmatizes and stereotypes all black men – myself included – as dangers and public threats. To acknowledge that truism is heterodoxy in our current cultural climate where subjective feelings and white guilt are prioritized over data-driven facts. This criminal stereotype in many occasions (but not all), is a contributing factor in the deaths of black men as are the guns used by cops (or wannabe proxies) to shoot them.

That this small, racial demographic subgroup reinforces criminal stereotypes is an important aspect as to why people reach the conclusion that black men menace society. I have a personal file of more than 200 stories that show the breathtaking variety of black criminality and 99 percent has absolutely nothing to do with people holding an “unreasonable fear.” As a matter of fact, it’s precisely because of these stories, again, which stigmatizes all blacks, that mainstream America –– including other blacks –– possess the functional and in many cases, life-preserving generalization that black men are threats to public safety.

Sadly, FBI statistics reinforce this categorization. In 2018, blacks accounted for 37 percent of reported violent crimes, 54 percent of robberies, 53 percent of reported murders, and 89 percent of crimes committed against other blacks. Just this past weekend alone, 39 people were shot and ten others were killed in Chicago even though stay-at-home orders are still in place.

Additionally, when it comes to interracial crimes, blacks killed more whites (69 percent) than whites killed blacks (31 percent). One would never know this if one had to rely only on media reporting.

Jesse Jackson once lamented about walking and hearing footsteps behind him only to be relieved that they weren’t black. He said,

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see someone white and feel relieved.”

He also expressed his observations about black criminality in ghetto areas saying,

“This killing is not based upon poverty; it is based upon greed and violence and guns.”

Considering that these examples, buttressed by painful statistics that unfairly and overwhelmingly tarnish black men, can we still call this feeling “unreasonable?”

French says that “hearts can change.” No question they can – and they have. Despite legislative victories resulting from the civil rights movement, it wasn’t until American hearts changed that our country was able to heal and move forward.

But I think French lays the contemporary burden of responsibility to change upon the shoulders of mainstream America. This means that white people bear the overwhelming obligation to fix this problem. There certainly are white people who lack moral self-awareness and are in definite need of a spiritual self-assessment to change what compromises principled thoughts and behaviors.

But excluding blacks from contributing to this moral renovation is paternalistic and reinforces notions of black helplessness and inability. French won’t say what I’m about to say for whatever reason(s) and many whites are afraid to say what I’ll say because of the swift “cancel culture” repercussions that accompany any recognition of black humanity (on equal terms with their counterparts), black obligation, and free will. So, I’ll say it. White people who agree with me but who nevertheless choose the pragmatic path to self-preservation can thank me later.

If hearts are going to change, we’re compelled to mention what blacks can and should do to diminish this “unreasonable fear”: immediately resume self-policing of the pernicious and counterproductive behavior in black communities. This includes vociferous and consistent condemnation of blacks who do their level best to keep negative stereotypes alive, full stop.

Jesse Jackson also said,

We’ve got the power right now to stop killing each other . . . There is a code of silence, based upon fear. Our silence is a sanctuary for killers and drug dealers. There must be a market revolt. The victim has to rise up.

Blacks do have the power but they refuse to use it.

Blacks in the post-civil rights era have stopped calling balls and strikes when it comes to self-destructive and self-debasing behavior, and it’s exactly why we have so much of it. It’s no secret that once you destigmatize bad behavior, bad conduct is normalized. This behavior then became associated with black culture, being “authentically” black, and so on. When blacks sit silently as the violent statistical minority abuse and destroy our reputations, then attempt to rationalize this humiliating behavior – it becomes legitimized, and blacks as a whole become associated with it.

So, if blacks continue to sit silently and withhold disapproval, then they can’t complain when mainstream America reacts accordingly.

It bears repeating – all of this in no way condones what the McMichaels did or that Arbery (and more recently, George Floyd) deserved to be killed. It’s the larger, deliberately misleading narrative that I’m concerned with.

Blacks could stop this almost overnight if they wanted to. But they don’t, because some religions still require human sacrifice and black identity politics is one such religion (cult, actually).

After what our black ancestors went through to gift us this freedom, it’s unquestionably unfortunate that we’ve allowed ourselves to shame our reputations and their sacrifices.

David French choosing the phrase “unreasonable fear” in proximity to black men isn’t correct. A more accurate term would be “unfortunate fear.”

Blacks holding themselves accountable demonstrates self-love and self-respect and ultimately shows people that they needn’t fear blacks.

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  1. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

     

    Do you really want to live an existence where nobody can stand up for what they believe for fear of being fired? I thought that’s the kind of stuff that goes on only in totalitarian societies.

    You First.

    Gladly.  I would think that as a Conservative you would be willing to make a stand also.  What good is all this talk on the subject if nobody is willing to stand up for what they believe.

     

    • #91
  2. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, you could start by talking honestly with the minority people you interact with, instead of avoiding them.

    That misses his original point that doing so can result in losing your job, or worse.

    But that would mean simply caving-in to the race mongers and giving them tacit support that what they are doing is okay. It’s just like the Muslim thing. We in the West are told that we cannot criticize Islam and do things like desecrating the Koran or else Muslims around the World will go on killing sprees.

    One more good reason to support Trump. He took out Soleimani and then kinda laughed at Iran’s “response.”

    Trump can’t do this thing alone. It takes participation by grass-roots Americans.

    Indeed. By voting to re-elect Trump. And that alone gets you decried as “racist” these days.

    So what?

    • #92
  3. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    But this evil system is not the creation of or the fault of the majority of ordinary Americans who happen to be black, most of whom are insulted by it and oppose it, I think.

    I have seen no proof of that statement. From what I have seen a significant portion of minorities exploit this creation as much as possible to their personal benefit. They are encouraged by our society too do so. I just do what I can to keep from being destroyed in their process. At one time I believed in MLK’s code. I have been taught differently, with much pain. I am too old to have to start over again because a minority took offense at words not even spoken to them.

    How would you know if you never talk to these people?

    I listen, I watch.  And I draw my own conclusions. Things you seem not to have done since you do not seem to understand how the world works.  

    • #93
  4. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, you could start by talking honestly with the minority people you interact with, instead of avoiding them.

    That misses his original point that doing so can result in losing your job, or worse.

    But that would mean simply caving-in to the race mongers and giving them tacit support that what they are doing is okay. It’s just like the Muslim thing. We in the West are told that we cannot criticize Islam and do things like desecrating the Koran or else Muslims around the World will go on killing sprees.

    Do you really want to live an existence where nobody can stand up for what they believe for fear of being fired? I thought that’s the kind of stuff that goes on only in totalitarian societies.

    Loss of making a living is one place where the rubber meets the road. That’s why Shelley Luther, the Texas salon owner who was jailed for opening up her shop, is considered a hero.

    It will be interesting if she is still in business in a few months.  She fought authority, in the end authority usually wins.

    • #94
  5. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, you could start by talking honestly with the minority people you interact with, instead of avoiding them.

    That misses his original point that doing so can result in losing your job, or worse.

    But that would mean simply caving-in to the race mongers and giving them tacit support that what they are doing is okay. It’s just like the Muslim thing. We in the West are told that we cannot criticize Islam and do things like desecrating the Koran or else Muslims around the World will go on killing sprees.

    Do you really want to live an existence where nobody can stand up for what they believe for fear of being fired? I thought that’s the kind of stuff that goes on only in totalitarian societies.

    Loss of making a living is one place where the rubber meets the road. That’s why Shelley Luther, the Texas salon owner who was jailed for opening up her shop, is considered a hero.

    Her situation isn’t nearly as bad as if she had offended Jesse Jackson or something like that.

    True, especially in a Red State she has a better chance to weather it.  Then there is her personal connections.  If she is connected to powerful then she will be fine.  If not then the bureaucrats will eat her.

    • #95
  6. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    But this evil system is not the creation of or the fault of the majority of ordinary Americans who happen to be black, most of whom are insulted by it and oppose it, I think.

    I’m not so sure of that. But even if you somehow found a way to only interact with those who don’t support the evil system, you might still be “found out” and “dealt with.” You don’t even have to be having a direct interaction, or conversation or whatever. Just putting a Letter To The Editor in a local newspaper that offends some minority person, might get a fusillade of attacks on an employer until it’s easier for them to just get rid of the “offending” employee.

    It’s not exactly new, either. I haven’t listened to Dennis Prager in years, not since he went “paywall” for his radio show. I find him too repetitious and tedious to pay for. (He likes to say something like “repetition is the key to pedagogy” but I’m not paying for him to “educate” me.)

    But even before then, at least 15 years ago now, he occasionally related a time when he visited some kind of radio business. I don’t remember if it was a single station, or the headquarters of a radio network, or the offices of some involved polling/rating service… But anyway, he would occasionally see where they had “focus groups” evaluating radio ads, marketing schemes, etc. At one point he mentioned not having seen any black people in the same groups as white people. And he was told that they didn’t put whites in the same focus groups as blacks because they had found that in those situations, the white people would often refuse to openly disagree with the blacks, for fear of being called racist.

    You are conflating the two separate facts that I hoped to make clear we must not conflate.  The fact that the Democrats have created a new institutionalized system of pervasive racial injustice and dishonesty, repressing both whites and blacks in different ways, is not any reason for us Americans as individuals created by God, to voluntarily add to this loss by voluntarily isolating ourselves from each other according to the color of our skin.

    • #96
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    You are conflating the two separate facts that I hoped to make clear we must not conflate. The fact that the Democrats have created a new institutionalized system of pervasive racial injustice and dishonesty, repressing both whites and blacks in different ways, is not any reason for us Americans as individuals created by God, to voluntarily add to this loss by voluntarily isolating ourselves from each other according to the color of our skin.

    Remember how it goes?  As far as I’m concerned, I am not isolating myself from them.  They have chosen to isolate themselves from me.  It’s they, not me, who need to see the error of their way.  And one of the most dangerous place you can be, is trying to get between someone and their error.

    They are welcome to rejoin “polite society” whenever they like.  But I am not welcome – nor am I willing – to join their impolite one.

    • #97
  8. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race. What a needless denial of the joys and benefits of social interaction, which is life itself! And how utterly disrespectful of other innocent human beings, and how ungodly!

    When travelling through a strange city at night, would you voluntarily exit the freeway on Martin Luther King Jr Drive?

     

    • #98
  9. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    But this evil system is not the creation of or the fault of the majority of ordinary Americans who happen to be black, most of whom are insulted by it and oppose it, I think.

    I have seen no proof of that statement. From what I have seen a significant portion of minorities exploit this creation as much as possible to their personal benefit. They are encouraged by our society too do so. I just do what I can to keep from being destroyed in their process. At one time I believed in MLK’s code. I have been taught differently, with much pain. I am too old to have to start over again because a minority took offense at words not even spoken to them.

    Of course you realize, “minority” is now offensive too…

    What is the new acceptable word I can use without being destroyed?

    “Diverse Person”.

     

    • #99
  10. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race. What a needless denial of the joys and benefits of social interaction, which is life itself! And how utterly disrespectful of other innocent human beings, and how ungodly!

    When travelling through a strange city at night, would you voluntarily exit the freeway on Martin Luther King Jr Drive?

    Funny you should mention that.  My wife had to go in to work at the hospital tonight, just one hour ago.  After she left she called and said the highways were blocked off by State Troopers because of this afternoon’s riots in Cleveland.  We discussed the safest route through the city and decided that Martin Luther King Drive was the least safe.

     

    • #100
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Of course you realize, “minority” is now offensive too…

    What is the new acceptable word I can use without being destroyed?

    “Diverse Person”.

    Maybe, for now.  But another part of the problem is how these terms keep changing for no real reason.

    Years ago I found this excerpt from a discussion of terms used for mental illness:

    The terms used for this condition are subject to a process called the euphemism treadmill. This means that whatever term is chosen for this condition, it eventually becomes perceived as an insult. The terms mental retardation and mentally retarded were invented in the middle of the 20th century to replace the previous set of terms, which were deemed to have become offensive. By the end of the 20th century, these terms themselves have come to be widely seen as disparaging and politically incorrect and in need of replacement.[2] The term intellectual disability or intellectually challenged is now preferred by most advocates in most English-speaking countries. The AAIDD have defined intellectual disability to mean the same thing as mental retardation.[3] Currently, the term mental retardation is used by the World Health Organization in the ICD-10 codes, which has a section titled “Mental Retardation” (codes F70?¢?”F79). In the future, the ICD-11 is expected to replace the term mental retardation with intellectual disability, and the DSM-5 is expected to replace it with intellectual developmental disorder.[4][5] Because of its specificity and lack of confusion with other conditions, mental retardation is still sometimes used professional medical settings around the world, such as formal scientific research and health insurance paperwork.[6] 

     

    • #101
  12. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race. What a needless denial of the joys and benefits of social interaction, which is life itself! And how utterly disrespectful of other innocent human beings, and how ungodly!

    When travelling through a strange city at night, would you voluntarily exit the freeway on Martin Luther King Jr Drive?

    Funny you should mention that. My wife had to go in to work at the hospital tonight, just one hour ago. After she left she called and said the highways were blocked off by State Troopers because of this afternoon’s riots in Cleveland. We discussed the safest route through the city and decided that Martin Luther King Drive was the least safe.

     

    Why did she not stop and have an open discussion about racism with the protesters?  I am sure they would have listened to her open minded point of view.  I do not understand why you would direct her to avoid them.

    • #102
  13. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Of course you realize, “minority” is now offensive too…

    What is the new acceptable word I can use without being destroyed?

    “Diverse Person”.

    Maybe, for now. But another part of the problem is how these terms keep changing for no real reason.

    Years ago I found this excerpt from a discussion of terms used for mental illness:

    The terms used for this condition are subject to a process called the euphemism treadmill. This means that whatever term is chosen for this condition, it eventually becomes perceived as an insult. The terms mental retardation and mentally retarded were invented in the middle of the 20th century to replace the previous set of terms, which were deemed to have become offensive. By the end of the 20th century, these terms themselves have come to be widely seen as disparaging and politically incorrect and in need of replacement.[2] The term intellectual disability or intellectually challenged is now preferred by most advocates in most English-speaking countries. The AAIDD have defined intellectual disability to mean the same thing as mental retardation.[3] Currently, the term mental retardation is used by the World Health Organization in the ICD-10 codes, which has a section titled “Mental Retardation” (codes F70?¢?”F79). In the future, the ICD-11 is expected to replace the term mental retardation with intellectual disability, and the DSM-5 is expected to replace it with intellectual developmental disorder.[4][5] Because of its specificity and lack of confusion with other conditions, mental retardation is still sometimes used professional medical settings around the world, such as formal scientific research and health insurance paperwork.[6]

    It’s only a matter of time before “intellectual disability” becomes an insult and they will have to invent a new term.

     

    • #103
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Of course you realize, “minority” is now offensive too…

    What is the new acceptable word I can use without being destroyed?

    “Diverse Person”.

    Maybe, for now. But another part of the problem is how these terms keep changing for no real reason.

    Years ago I found this excerpt from a discussion of terms used for mental illness:

    The terms used for this condition are subject to a process called the euphemism treadmill. This means that whatever term is chosen for this condition, it eventually becomes perceived as an insult. The terms mental retardation and mentally retarded were invented in the middle of the 20th century to replace the previous set of terms, which were deemed to have become offensive. By the end of the 20th century, these terms themselves have come to be widely seen as disparaging and politically incorrect and in need of replacement.[2] The term intellectual disability or intellectually challenged is now preferred by most advocates in most English-speaking countries. The AAIDD have defined intellectual disability to mean the same thing as mental retardation.[3] Currently, the term mental retardation is used by the World Health Organization in the ICD-10 codes, which has a section titled “Mental Retardation” (codes F70?¢?”F79). In the future, the ICD-11 is expected to replace the term mental retardation with intellectual disability, and the DSM-5 is expected to replace it with intellectual developmental disorder.[4][5] Because of its specificity and lack of confusion with other conditions, mental retardation is still sometimes used professional medical settings around the world, such as formal scientific research and health insurance paperwork.[6]

    It’s only a matter of time before “intellectual disability” becomes an insult and they will have to invent a new term.

    Exactly.  And it may have happened already, or at least began, since “disability” is already… viewed unfavorably.  This excerpt came up years ago.

    And the same thing happens with racial terms, of course.  For “outsiders” anyway.

    • #104
  15. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race. What a needless denial of the joys and benefits of social interaction, which is life itself! And how utterly disrespectful of other innocent human beings, and how ungodly!

    When travelling through a strange city at night, would you voluntarily exit the freeway on Martin Luther King Jr Drive?

     

    No.  That is irrelevant to the question at hand.  If you asked me if I am afraid to talk to my black neighbor when he’s mowing his grass, or to an elder of my church who is black, it would be relevant to the question, and the answer would be “no”.

    I am not afraid of every black person, and I find it astonishing that someone is.

    • #105
  16. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race. What a needless denial of the joys and benefits of social interaction, which is life itself! And how utterly disrespectful of other innocent human beings, and how ungodly!

    When travelling through a strange city at night, would you voluntarily exit the freeway on Martin Luther King Jr Drive?

    No. That is irrelevant to the question at hand. If you asked me if I am afraid to talk to my black neighbor when he’s mowing his grass, or to an elder of my church who is black, it would be relevant to the question, and the answer would be “no”.

    I am not afraid of every black person, and I find it astonishing that someone is.

    It is *precisely* relevant to the question at hand.  You didn’t ask about interactions with blacks as individuals  – you said “I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race.”

    What other reason would there be for not exiting a freeway at night in a strange city based on the street name indicating that it’s a predominantly black area, other than being “afraid of blacks as a group”, and “avoiding contact based only on their race”?

    • #106
  17. Derryck Green Member
    Derryck Green
    @DerryckGreen

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    But this evil system is not the creation of or the fault of the majority of ordinary Americans who happen to be black, most of whom are insulted by it and oppose it, I think.

    I’m not so sure of that. But even if you somehow found a way to only interact with those who don’t support the evil system, you might still be “found out” and “dealt with.” You don’t even have to be having a direct interaction, or conversation or whatever. Just putting a Letter To The Editor in a local newspaper that offends some minority person, might get a fusillade of attacks on an employer until it’s easier for them to just get rid of the “offending” employee.

    It’s not exactly new, either. I haven’t listened to Dennis Prager in years, not since he went “paywall” for his radio show. I find him too repetitious and tedious to pay for. (He likes to say something like “repetition is the key to pedagogy” but I’m not paying for him to “educate” me.)

    But even before then, at least 15 years ago now, he occasionally related a time when he visited some kind of radio business. I don’t remember if it was a single station, or the headquarters of a radio network, or the offices of some involved polling/rating service… But anyway, he would occasionally see where they had “focus groups” evaluating radio ads, marketing schemes, etc. At one point he mentioned not having seen any black people in the same groups as white people. And he was told that they didn’t put whites in the same focus groups as blacks because they had found that in those situations, the white people would often refuse to openly disagree with the blacks, for fear of being called racist.

    You are conflating the two separate facts that I hoped to make clear we must not conflate. The fact that the Democrats have created a new institutionalized system of pervasive racial injustice and dishonesty, repressing both whites and blacks in different ways, is not any reason for us Americans as individuals created by God, to voluntarily add to this loss by voluntarily isolating ourselves from each other according to the color of our skin.

    GREAT point. 

    • #107
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Derryck Green (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    But this evil system is not the creation of or the fault of the majority of ordinary Americans who happen to be black, most of whom are insulted by it and oppose it, I think.

    It’s not exactly new, either. I haven’t listened to Dennis Prager in years, not since he went “paywall” for his radio show. I find him too repetitious and tedious to pay for. (He likes to say something like “repetition is the key to pedagogy” but I’m not paying for him to “educate” me.)

    But even before then, at least 15 years ago now, he occasionally related a time when he visited some kind of radio business. I don’t remember if it was a single station, or the headquarters of a radio network, or the offices of some involved polling/rating service… But anyway, he would occasionally see where they had “focus groups” evaluating radio ads, marketing schemes, etc. At one point he mentioned not having seen any black people in the same groups as white people. And he was told that they didn’t put whites in the same focus groups as blacks because they had found that in those situations, the white people would often refuse to openly disagree with the blacks, for fear of being called racist.

    You are conflating the two separate facts that I hoped to make clear we must not conflate. The fact that the Democrats have created a new institutionalized system of pervasive racial injustice and dishonesty, repressing both whites and blacks in different ways, is not any reason for us Americans as individuals created by God, to voluntarily add to this loss by voluntarily isolating ourselves from each other according to the color of our skin.

    GREAT point.

    Except it seems to ignore the one-sided weaponization.  What does a black person risk by attempting to be sociable with white people?  Even if the attempt is not… appreciated… they won’t lose their job, or worse.

    • #108
  19. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race. What a needless denial of the joys and benefits of social interaction, which is life itself! And how utterly disrespectful of other innocent human beings, and how ungodly!

    When travelling through a strange city at night, would you voluntarily exit the freeway on Martin Luther King Jr Drive?

    No. That is irrelevant to the question at hand. If you asked me if I am afraid to talk to my black neighbor when he’s mowing his grass, or to an elder of my church who is black, it would be relevant to the question, and the answer would be “no”.

    I am not afraid of every black person, and I find it astonishing that someone is.

    It is *precisely* relevant to the question at hand. You didn’t ask about interactions with blacks as individuals – you said “I’m stunned to hear of an American today who is afraid of blacks as a group, to the point where he avoids contact with them based only on their race.”

    What other reason would there be for not exiting a freeway at night in a strange city based on the street name indicating that it’s a predominantly black area, other than being “afraid of blacks as a group”, and “avoiding contact based only on their race”?

    I would add that not all of this is racially motivated.  A big part of this is that nearly all “Martin Luther King Drives” are in troubled neighborhoods in the inner cities.  If there was one in a suburb with little crime I doubt that most people would be afraid to travel there.  We have Black suburban areas around Cleveland that nobody would ever consider the least bit dangerous, at the same time there are predominantly White areas of Cleveland where people are afraid to tread at night.

    I think most people still judge others on their appearance and behavior more than on their racial makeup.

    • #109
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    I would add that not all of this is racially motivated. A big part of this is that nearly all “Martin Luther King Drives” are in troubled neighborhoods in the inner cities. If there was one in a suburb with little crime I doubt that most people would be afraid to travel there. We have Black suburban areas around Cleveland that nobody would ever consider the least bit dangerous, at the same time there are predominantly White areas of Cleveland where people are afraid to tread at night.

    I think most people still judge others on their appearance and behavior more than on their racial makeup.

    Which was exactly part of the point, of course.  It wasn’t about getting off the freeway in a KNOWN suburban area around Cleveland, or anywhere else – black or white.  It was about an UKNOWN area.  And I would venture that a black person traveling alone at night, would prefer to get off the freeway in an unknown predominately-white area, too.

    • #110
  21. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Yes, why are all MLK Blvds in the bad section of town.  (It’s racist.)

    • #111
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Yes, why are all MLK Blvds in the bad section of town. (It’s racist.)

    Maybe because the people there will riot if the street isn’t renamed?  I don’t remember it actually getting that bad in Portland, Oregon when I was growing up, when the street-renaming came up, but maybe that’s because they gave in early.  And that’s where the Floyd-related rioting in Portland seems to be happening. People – black or white – in other areas have better things to do.

    • #112
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