Minneapolis Mess

 

It seems to me the current mess in Minneapolis is just one more drop in the bucket that the police are the enemy of the people in that city. Apparently, they shoot you if you call 911, and they will suffocate you if you get arrested. And now, they cannot stop rioting.

So basically, they are so incompetent that they kill you if you are a law-abiding citizen who encounters them, but the let you run rampant if you are a looter. They sure are not going to protect your business.

We are a far, far way away from when the police where people to be trusted, especially in Minneapolis.

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  1. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    This is a very good explanation of the policing issues in Minneapolis. It’s only two minutes.

     

     

    The cops reportedly are retreating because they are mad at the government. 

     

     

     

    • #31
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    This is exactly what it’s like to live in Minnesota right now. Perfect. 

     

     

     

    • #32
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The criminal was apparently hand-cuffed and then walked across the street.  I don’t know what the criminal did to be put down, but the knee remained on the neck for a good four minutes after he entirely stopped moving, and the crowd started calling out to check the man’s pulse.  We don’t know when the man was uncuffed, [correction: it appears that the man was never un-cuffed]  or when the police called for an ambulance.  But when the ambu crew showed up the policeman’s knee was still on the man’s neck.  The policeman was kneeling on the man for four minutes after the man stopped moving, and did not try to put him in the squad car — nor apparently did the policeman care to make sure the man was responsive.

    What’s the solution? I don’t have one. But there is a vicious spiral here. The police do need to fear death at the hands of criminals. And the non-criminals do fear police shooting first and asking questions later.

    Human beings have never been “good”, but they have acted well at various times, in history. Nowadays, people are not acting well: the Culture of Death is in its third generation; 50% of the us population feels entitled to free … everything; anti-trumpers spread every form of slanderous lie and now advocate for Democrats’ to be elected to implement their platform; and the tone of public discourse is at a dreadful, and irrational, low.

    Despite all of this country’s problems past and present, there was a time when right and wrong were acknowledged, and honor and being bound by one’s word was an accepted concept, and people at least knew the Bible, and its social concepts, even if they didn’t personally hold to the spiritual aspects of it.

    Emotional “feelings”, the exaltation of the self, and the withdrawal of responsibility for one’s actions – and I would say the God-less and dehumanizing culture of death that abortion has brought – by the anti-Christian forces in America have wrought, or at least condoned, the social views that led to Minneapolis looting.

    • #33
  4. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Governor Walz has ZERO government executive ability, in my opinion. Mayor Frey has extremely misplaced priorities. I’ve had that opinion reinforced by someone knowledgeable on Twitter. Both of these guys are fundamentally terrible on everything, not just political views. 

    • #34
  5. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    I saw the video and understand the policeman kept his knee on him even after the guy was handcuffed. What I haven’t seen or heard is what did the guy do that the police felt the need to arrest him in the first place.

    Quite sure that it was passing, or being in possession of, a counterfeit bill. How, and to what extent, things deteriorated immediately after that, I’m not sure.

     

    He also had an arrest warrant out for him, reportedly for similar non-violent crimes.

    • #35
  6. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Current MSNBC Editorial Position 

     

     

    There are actual Republicans that think Trump is the problem with this country.

    • #36
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Ham-Fisted Bu… Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Ham-Fisted Bu…
    @DrewInWisconsin

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    There are actual Republicans that think Trump is the problem with this country.

    But not many of them. They’re just amplified by CNN and MSNBC.

    • #37
  8. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    DrewInWisconsin, Ham-Fisted Bu… (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    There are actual Republicans that think Trump is the problem with this country.

    But not many of them. They’re just amplified by CNN and MSNBC.

    I think that’s accurate. George Conway and Rick Wilson etc. know how to leverage very little money to do this. 

    Most of those guys are getting some pretty good cash for doing this.

    • #38
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Darin Johnson (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Something to understand about the knee (or foot) on the neck of the guy down on the ground is that it happens every day. I personally witnessed it more than once while living in NYC. And virtually every single guy says he can’t breathe. Based on the video, either there was no crime committed or there are a thousand such every day.

    And before you decide the answer is a thousand, stop and remember the comments above where people want the cops to be able to stop riots and looting.

    So when the guy dies that’s just tough luck? (I’m willing to hold out the possibility that there’s more to this story, as there often is.)

    Your link between this event and stopping riots is 180 degrees backwards. The police need, ya know, not fatal ways of subduing and detaining suspects, including rioters. People need to know that surrendering to the police is not a death sentence. This is basic economics. One reason not to impose the death penalty for, say, robbery is that you obviate the incentive for robbers not to kill their victims.

    A better link is no-knock warrants. When the police break in and shoot the dogs, they increase the probability of resistance. What’s a citizen supposed to do?

    Sorry, no. They have to do better.

    Yes they do. But they won’t because they don’t want too. See, as long as they “Go Home” which is their highest priority, it is the citizens who must bear the burden of risk. Not them. 

    • #39
  10. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Darin Johnson (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    If you read what I wrote there, you might note that I said it’s likely happening thousands of times per day. And then once every several years one person dies. That *is* the not fatal way. The record for non-lethal rounds, a.k.a. rubber bullets doesn’t come close.

    I can’t tell if you’re being obtuse or what. This “non-fatal” way killed the guy, so, not so non-fatal, after all.

    Fatal about one of a million times. That is a lower rate than any non-lethal tactic you can name.

    I haven’t seen the video. How long was the officer on top of the guy? Five minutes? Eight minutes? While three others were present? Does this really happen that much?

    The most memorable that I saw involved a guy caught at the top of a staircase inside a subway station, meaning he was already below ground. It was rush hour, and the cops were waiting for traffic to thin before trying to take him up multiple flights of stairs to the street. In the meantime, there was a cop standing on his neck.

    That was wrong. Putting pressure on a neck is not a valid way to subdue someone. I have been trained to do it in hospitals and that is not something you should ever do. Never, never, never. Because someone could die. 

     

    • #40
  11. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    LOL

     

     

     

     

    • #41
  12. Lockdowns Are Precious Inactive
    Lockdowns Are Precious
    @Pseudodionysius

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    LOL

     

    Answer: When they want the Fires of Mount Doom to spread. Like a virus. We’ve been Smeagoled.

     

     

     

    • #42
  13. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge
    DonG (skeptic)
    @DonG

    I am pretty sure I saw @jameslileks in a video stream with arm-fulls of booze during the Minneapolis riots.   Anybody else see that?

    • #43
  14. Darin Johnson Member
    Darin Johnson
    @user_648569

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Yes they do. But they won’t because they don’t want too. See, as long as they “Go Home” which is their highest priority, it is the citizens who must bear the burden of risk. Not them.

    That was wrong. Putting pressure on a neck is not a valid way to subdue someone. I have been trained to do it in hospitals and that is not something you should ever do. Never, never, never. Because someone could die.

    I’m joining two of your comments together. 

    I don’t know, man.  If I’m a cop and my life is in danger, I would grab a suspect by the neck or whatever else it takes.  Wouldn’t you?  But once he’s subdued it’s completely different.  That seems like the absolutely critical difference: subduing versus holding.  The duration of the thing, as somebody else put it.

    Are we on the same page, give or take?

     

     

    • #44
  15. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Darin Johnson (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Yes they do. But they won’t because they don’t want too. See, as long as they “Go Home” which is their highest priority, it is the citizens who must bear the burden of risk. Not them.

    That was wrong. Putting pressure on a neck is not a valid way to subdue someone. I have been trained to do it in hospitals and that is not something you should ever do. Never, never, never. Because someone could die.

    I’m joining two of your comments together.

    I don’t know, man. If I’m a cop and my life is in danger, I would grab a suspect by the neck or whatever else it takes. Wouldn’t you? But once he’s subdued it’s completely different. That seems like the absolutely critical difference: subduing versus holding. The duration of the thing, as somebody else put it.

    Are we on the same page, give or take?

     

     

    You don’t restrain people by the neck. You can kill them.

    I cannot speak to subduing him. We would do that as a group

    • #45
  16. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

    If you look at comment #31 I took that as the police were going passive. Now I’m not so sure. I think they were mad because the mayor wanted them to retreat.

     

     

    • #46
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I got this from Larry Elder

    Two economic historians, William Collins and Robert Margo, studied owner-occupied housing data to see how much of those cities’ economic declines could be attributed specifically to riots.

    In places where severe rioting occurred, property values fell, Collins says, “by about 10 percent relative to where we think they would have been in absence of a riot, or in comparison to places with that had much less severe or no riots.” Property owned by blacks saw values drop by as much as 15 percent.

    But what was most surprising was that these losses lasted through the 20 years they studied. Some cities still haven’t recovered.

    “So a question that is especially relevant in the wake of an event like a riot,” Collins says, “is ‘Does a place bounce back quickly from this, and if it doesn’t bounce back quickly, why not?’”

    The reasons are complex. Many of these neighborhoods were poor before the riots, and each place has its own circumstances. But there are some common experiences after a riot. Insurance rates go up, cities tend to spend more on police and fire protection, and people who can afford to move away often do.

    “So if your tax base is being diminished at the same time that you’re increasing demands for police and fire, this is the sort of stuff investors might think of as potentially weakening the fiscal position of cities,” Collins says. This makes it harder for to raise money for revitalization projects. It’s harder to attract businesses and developers, and news coverage can paint a negative picture of a place.

    The 1960s riots were dramatic and catastrophic.

    “The events in Ferguson don’t rise to the same level of severity that we saw in the 1960s,” says Margo, “so that would lead you to suspect that they wouldn’t have any long-run effect.”

    On the other hand the riots of the 1960s lasted only days, Margo points out, while the unrest in Ferguson has gone on for months.

    If you listened to that two minute clip I posted earlier they needed way more cops along time ago so they could have the best personnel and so they could be more flexible about personal decisions. They have been statistically understaffed for years.If you listened to that two minute clip I posted earlier they needed way more cops along time ago so they could have the best personnel and so they could be more flexible about personal decisions. They have been statistically understaffed for years.

    The amount of money was nothing compared to the damage that is going to last for many years now.

     

    • #47
  18. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

    • #48
  19. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

    • #49
  20. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I am pretty sure I saw @jameslileks in a video stream with arm-fulls of booze during the Minneapolis riots. Anybody else see that?

    I thought he would steal yeast . . .

    • #50
  21. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    The police only care about their safety, not law and order. 

    They sure don’t care about the damage done to law abiding citizens. 

    They will arrest a CNN reporter on camera, because that is safe. 

    The whole force should be fired. 

    • #51
  22. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Stad (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    I am pretty sure I saw @jameslileks in a video stream with arm-fulls of booze during the Minneapolis riots. Anybody else see that?

    I thought he would steal yeast . . .

    More likely antique postcards.

    • #52
  23. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    The police only care about their safety, not law and order.

    They sure don’t care about the damage done to law abiding citizens.

    They will arrest a CNN reporter on camera, because that is safe.

    The whole force should be fired.

    Apparently the police force up there has had complaint after complaint filed against certain officers, with little or no action taken against them.  I know our local agencies down here (Aiken, Aiken County, SC) will can a cop faster than you can say “DUI” or “improper use of office”.  I know because it gets reported in the papers.  The only way  law enforcement agency can get away with keeping suspect cops on board is if the agency itself has corruption in high places, or the police union shields them.  This is a job for the DOJ . . .

    • #53
  24. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Stad (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    The police only care about their safety, not law and order.

    They sure don’t care about the damage done to law abiding citizens.

    They will arrest a CNN reporter on camera, because that is safe.

    The whole force should be fired.

    Apparently the police force up there has had complaint after complaint filed against certain officers, with little or no action taken against them. I know our local agencies down here (Aiken, Aiken County, SC) will can a cop faster than you can say “DUI” or “improper use of office”. I know because it gets reported in the papers. The only way law enforcement agnecy can get away with keeping suspect cops on board is if the agency itself has corruption in high places, or the police union shields them. This is a job for the DOJ . . .

    The DOJ is corrupt too. 

    • #54
  25. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

    • #55
  26. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    The police only care about their safety, not law and order.

    They sure don’t care about the damage done to law abiding citizens.

    They will arrest a CNN reporter on camera, because that is safe.

    The whole force should be fired.

    Apparently the police force up there has had complaint after complaint filed against certain officers, with little or no action taken against them. I know our local agencies down here (Aiken, Aiken County, SC) will can a cop faster than you can say “DUI” or “improper use of office”. I know because it gets reported in the papers. The only way law enforcement agnecy can get away with keeping suspect cops on board is if the agency itself has corruption in high places, or the police union shields them. This is a job for the DOJ . . .

    The DOJ is corrupt too.

     

     

    Look at Root’s bio.

    • #56
  27. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    For the life of me, I can’t figure out what stealing five flatscreens from Target has to do with police brutality.

    I totally agree. But it is clear, when it comes to killing one person, this police depart has that down well. When it comes to stopping a riot? Not so much.

    Well, you see, private property is theft. The police exist to do the bidding of rich people; people who own more property have therefore stolen more, and people who own less are entitled to redistribute property to themselves if the government won’t see to it that social justice is done. 

    • #57
  28. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    DrewInWisconsin, Ham-Fisted Bu… (View Comment):

    That’s a Democrat town, ain’t it? Ilhan Omar’s district.

    One of the most Liberal in the country.

    • #58
  29. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    So what happens if those cops are exonerated?  First of all, there is nothing to suggest anything was done because of race.  Second, medical reports have ruled out that asphyxiation was the cause of death.  Third cops were following standard procedures for restraining a perpetrator.  Fourth, two of the cops were Asian minorities.  

    The only unknown right now is why were they going to such an extreme to restrain him?  If there is a legitimate answer to that question, then these cops are innocent completely.  Unless they get railroaded, which is highly possible, I suspect they will get off.

    • #59
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Manny (View Comment):
    Second, medical reports have ruled out that asphyxiation was the cause of death.

    I would think the prosecutors would be very worried about what that report said. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it.

    Third cops were following standard procedures for restraining a perpetrator.

    I’m not totally up on this, but I think they pretty much were. Minneapolis has a more risky policy standard or however you want to put it.

    I don’t get why you don’t just zip tie his ankles and leave him there. 

    The other thing is, supposedly it’s a lot safer if you force the guy to stay on his side, rather than up or down.

     

    • #60
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