About That George Floyd Death

 

I am watching some online streams from the “protests” in Minneapolis. The situation involves mounted police, buildings burning, teargas, and strike teams. You can call it a riot and this is the second night.

The people are upset about George Floyd being killed by police. The cops responded to alleged forging and George ended up face down on the ground with a cops knee on his neck. There is video that shows him begging for his life as succumbs. The cops have been fired and Trump has vowed a swift investigation. Protests are starting in other cities. Some rednecks are in a video “armed” up and looking to stop looting. This seems like a big deal as the country is on edge from the 60 days of house arrest. Add in record unemployment and who knows what is going to happen.

I am also listening to the police scanner. There are reports of shots fired and now the Dollar Tree is on fire. It is weird to see protesters wearing COVID masks.

This is a horrible problem as many Blacks feel like cops are an occupying force and we should all be sensitive to government oppression these days. Cities have set rules of engagement that allow these escalations and cities are going to have to fix things, because it is bad for the citizenry and bad for the police and bad for America.

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  1. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    Remember the months after 9/11, when people would stand on the street and applaud cops and firefighters?

    Good times, good times.

    Yeah, well, that was 2o years ago. We have a generation of new cops, and lots of footage if you care to look, of police out of control.

    Statistically, killings by cop are *way* down over the years – as they say in baseball, “you can look it up”, if you care to look.

    The reason you have “lots of footage” is because everyone has a camera now. There could still be (I would argue *is*) less abuse by cops, but it would appear to be more because of the ubiquity of cameras.

     

    That is a serious problem with gaining the ability to detect serious problems. 

    And we have a press dedicated to upsetting people – that doesn’t help either. Not that I want the opposite kind of press, and ‘responsible journalism’ may well be a chimera. 

    • #61
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    TBA (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    Remember the months after 9/11, when people would stand on the street and applaud cops and firefighters?

    Good times, good times.

    The People: “Thanks for putting out the fire!”

    Also the People: “We’re going to light this town on fire!”

    But not the SAME People.

    • #62
  3. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    I would imagine you include yourself in that statement, right?

    I am not an institution. I spent 25 years in a service organizing, only to be booted out thanks to personal politics of what I am talking about.

    I was naive enough to think my service counted and had value. It did not.

    Name me an institution in this nation that is interested in its supposed mission.

    Maine Warden Service.

    Really? What is that? Stopping people from enjoying parks?

    The Maine Warden Service is “responsible for the enforcement of fisheries and wildlife laws, and the coordination of search and rescue in wilderness areas of the state. Maine’s game wardens strive to protect the state’s fishing and hunting resources, Enforcing strict limits on the activities listed above to keep animal populations stable. Maine’s Warden Service is operationally part of Maine’s Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, it is the oldest conservation law enforcement agency in the United States.”

    That’s from Wikipedia. I know that it is a highly respected agency in Maine. I commented on another post some time ago that a SSGT on my LE Flight wanted to join the Maine Warden Service when he got out. Since Maine is 80% forested or unclaimed land, the MWS is essential in that state.

    I’m sure @GrannyDude will fill in more details.

    Sounds like their whole reason to be is to stop people using the parks.

    • #63
  4. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    Remember the months after 9/11, when people would stand on the street and applaud cops and firefighters?

    Good times, good times.

    Yeah, well, that was 2o years ago. We have a generation of new cops, and lots of footage if you care to look, of police out of control.

    Statistically, killings by cop are *way* down over the years – as they say in baseball, “you can look it up”, if you care to look.

    The reason you have “lots of footage” is because everyone has a camera now. There could still be (I would argue *is*) less abuse by cops, but it would appear to be more because of the ubiquity of cameras.

     

     

     

    Then the level of abuse is still far too high. Far to high. If this is better than it used to be, then cops have always been tyrants and the enemy of the people. 

    • #64
  5. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    TBA (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    Remember the months after 9/11, when people would stand on the street and applaud cops and firefighters?

    Good times, good times.

    Yeah, well, that was 2o years ago. We have a generation of new cops, and lots of footage if you care to look, of police out of control.

    Statistically, killings by cop are *way* down over the years – as they say in baseball, “you can look it up”, if you care to look.

    The reason you have “lots of footage” is because everyone has a camera now. There could still be (I would argue *is*) less abuse by cops, but it would appear to be more because of the ubiquity of cameras.

     

    That is a serious problem with gaining the ability to detect serious problems.

    And we have a press dedicated to upsetting people – that doesn’t help either. Not that I want the opposite kind of press, and ‘responsible journalism’ may well be a chimera.

    A man was suffocated for no reason. that is clear on video.

    I have been trained to restrain people. You. Do. Not. place restraint on their neck. Not ever. never. 

    The police did that. It was sanctioned. They only fired them because of the outcry. They would never have been fired because of the blue wall. Police protect their own. 

    • #65
  6. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    I would imagine you include yourself in that statement, right?

    I am not an institution. I spent 25 years in a service organizing, only to be booted out thanks to personal politics of what I am talking about.

    I was naive enough to think my service counted and had value. It did not.

    Name me an institution in this nation that is interested in its supposed mission.

    Maine Warden Service.

    Really? What is that? Stopping people from enjoying parks?

    The Maine Warden Service is “responsible for the enforcement of fisheries and wildlife laws, and the coordination of search and rescue in wilderness areas of the state. Maine’s game wardens strive to protect the state’s fishing and hunting resources, Enforcing strict limits on the activities listed above to keep animal populations stable. Maine’s Warden Service is operationally part of Maine’s Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, it is the oldest conservation law enforcement agency in the United States.”

    That’s from Wikipedia. I know that it is a highly respected agency in Maine. I commented on another post some time ago that a SSGT on my LE Flight wanted to join the Maine Warden Service when he got out. Since Maine is 80% forested or unclaimed land, the MWS is essential in that state.

    I’m sure @GrannyDude will fill in more details.

    Yup. You’re thinking of either park police or park rangers. Most of the land used for hunting and fishing, snowmobiling and other recreation in Maine is private land, to which no one other than the owner has a right.  Not only does misbehavior (drunk-snowmobiling, over-fishing, poaching etc.) misuse a common resource, but it often jeopardizes the ability of Maine citizens to access the outdoors, because landowners fed up with miscreants close their land. 

    In addition to enforcing fish and wildlife law, and recreational vehicle law, the Maine Warden Service also has primary responsibility for conducting search and rescue and search and recovery operations after tragedies occur in the Maine woods and fresh waters.  Maine game wardens save lives —quite literally—-every year. 

    Moreover, because Maine law enforcement is thin on the ground, Maine game wardens will often be called, as the closest sworn units, to barricaded gunmen, domestic violence incidents, school shootings-in-progress and other urgent public safety matters.  In addition, they are deployed in actual or potential natural or man-made disasters—floods, fires, riots—where necessary, and display creativity and virtuosity when it comes to adapting to novel situations. 

    They take all of these manifold responsibilities extremely seriously and are, to put it mildly, interested in their mission.

    • #66
  7. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I have moved from “believe the police” to “the police are lying to protect themselves” as the default. The police across this nation have brought this upon themselves with their repeated abuse of power.

    Sort of. Cops follow their rules and their rules written by cities. The police unions negotiate, so they have maximum flexibility/safety and minimum culpability. But it is the politicians that face the voters and they are the ones that have the responsibility for ensuring the rights of the citizens are protected.

    End result: police are liars who will always cover for each other and work against any of them being brought to justice. They are not here to serve or protect us, only themselves.

    Everyone is out for themselves and no one else, in every institution on America.

    I think that is the trend. This mindset is enabled by those who glorify the police and try to equate them with heroes or with the military. They aren’t the military. Even the military shouldn’t be put on that pedestal as there are lots of bad people in the military.

    The military recruits from people all over the country from all walks of life and there are lots of a bad actors in the military.

    But the military exists to defend the people. The police exist to control the people.

    That’s a big difference. Police, as part of their job, dominate and control everyone in sight. Not all police are bad, most are in fact very good, but there’s no denying that the mindset of training to control everyone, and then actively practicing controlling all people everyday gives them a huge tendency to abuse the trust we put in them.

    Rather than assume they are without sin, we should always demand strict accountability for every action and severe punishment if they step over the line. They should be paid well to avoid the temptation to be corrupt, they probably should have good benefits to encourage good people to join up, but we should never pretend that the near absolute power they have doesn’t tend to corrupt them.

    We should also have some kind of national level – though not necessarily government run – database for cops who are fired for bad actions that is easy to access and can be referred to in lawsuits down the line so that problem children don’t just move to a new state or different level of policing and start over.

    Doctors and lawyers too, while we’re at it – in fact, any position where a has considerable power over b.

    Especially given that medical errors kill an estimated 250-300,000 Americans every year. How much shall we bet that these are disproportionately black? 

    • #67
  8. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    @bryangstephens, I really think it’s a bad idea to make the sort of sweeping generalizations you seem prone to on this, though not on all, issues.   It’s not that it’s insulting—though of course, it could be—but it makes one look intellectually dishonest and lazy, and I know that you aren’t generally either. 

    It is healthy and important for Americans to be skeptical about the role of police in a free society. I say that as someone who is personally and professionally very involved with, and distinctly partial to, cops. Police officers themselves are often skeptical and may strongly resent and resist attempts by politicians to use them to enforce unconstitutional (or stupid) rules. On the other hand, it’s important for police officers to enforce the laws that our representatives pass, within the bounds of the constitution they are sworn to uphold—cops who decide for themselves which laws they do or do not enforce can be heroes or terrifying villains.

     

     

    • #68
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Find me a cop who is against no knock warrants. 

    The police in my city will not even investigate robbery from a car. Not worth their time.

    They will, however,  pull me over in the middle of the night because a semi truck startled me and I had tires hit the lane sized shoulder.  So, their time is best spent harassing me.

    I used to believe in them. Not now. Now they haul people to the ground for not social distancing. They put fathers in handcuffs for being at a playground alone with their daughter. 

    There is example after example. How about the young lady ticketed for driving by herself in lock down.

    These are all acts of tyrants.  I am building a picture based on the information I have.  

    I see a police car in the road and I am afraid.  Am I speeding?  Even if not, that car represents a threat to my liberty. A car passes me and I am afraid. 

    But, I am overreacting. 

    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    • #69
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    Arguably, that isn’t the cops’ fault.  At least not directly.  It’s their employers – the cities, counties, states – that want the money.

    • #70
  11. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Find me a cop who is against no knock warrants.

    The police in my city will not even investigate robbery from a car. Not worth their time.

    They will, however, pull me over in the middle of the night because a semi truck startled me and I had tires hit the lane sized shoulder. So, their time is best spent harassing me.

    I used to believe in them. Not now. Now they haul people to the ground for not social distancing. They put fathers in handcuffs for being at a playground alone with their daughter.

    There is example after example. How about the young lady ticketed for driving by herself in lock down.

    These are all acts of tyrants. I am building a picture based on the information I have.

    I see a police car in the road and I am afraid. Am I speeding? Even if not, that car represents a threat to my liberty. A car passes me and I am afraid.

    But, I am overreacting.

    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    You’re not overreacting.

    Several years ago a woman was jay walking in downtown Austin, so a cop threw her to the ground and hand cuffed her, bleeding and hauled her away.

    When I was in New Orleans with my friends and minding our own business, a cop came out of nowhere and threw my friend against a passing car.  They only released him from jail because they broke his neck and didn’t want to deal with him.

    Not all cops are bad.  The problem is you can never know if the cop in front of you is the bad one, and if he is a bad one, the other cops won’t stop him or even be publicly critical of him.

    In Dallas a police officer executed a man in the apartment below hers and was convicted.  That’s a rare instance of the police being held accountable, but there’s no denying that the police rally behind and protect each other to an extreme degree.  They should instead be strongly motivated to police their own ranks.

    • #71
  12. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    Arguably, that isn’t the cops’ fault. At least not directly. It’s their employers – the cities, counties, states – that want the money.

    They’re not robots. They have their own minds if they wish to exert themselves.

    • #72
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    Arguably, that isn’t the cops’ fault. At least not directly. It’s their employers – the cities, counties, states – that want the money.

    They’re not robots. They have their own minds if they wish to exert themselves.

    I’m sure there are cops like that.  The ones that don’t generate required revenue.  And are then replaced by others who will.

    • #73
  14. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Skyler (View Comment):
    When I was in New Orleans with my friends and minding our own business, a cop came out of nowhere and threw my friend against a passing car.

    Why do I suspect there’s more to the story?

     

     

    • #74
  15. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Find me a cop who is against no knock warrants.

    The police in my city will not even investigate robbery from a car. Not worth their time.

    They will, however, pull me over in the middle of the night because a semi truck startled me and I had tires hit the lane sized shoulder. So, their time is best spent harassing me.

    I used to believe in them. Not now. Now they haul people to the ground for not social distancing. They put fathers in handcuffs for being at a playground alone with their daughter.

    There is example after example. How about the young lady ticketed for driving by herself in lock down.

    These are all acts of tyrants. I am building a picture based on the information I have.

    I see a police car in the road and I am afraid. Am I speeding? Even if not, that car represents a threat to my liberty. A car passes me and I am afraid.

    But, I am overreacting.

    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    I feel this too, but we must remember that no one uploads, much less shoots, videos of police doing things right. There are just north of 680,000 full-time cops in the US who interact with humans and human scum every day of the year. 

    Really, it comes down to a matter of trust; some people trust that the police good with a few bad apples, and some the reverse. 

    Both views are supported by the evidence at hand which is largely sensationalized and anecdotal. 

    • #75
  16. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    When I was in New Orleans with my friends and minding our own business, a cop came out of nowhere and threw my friend against a passing car.

    Why do I suspect there’s more to the story?

    There isn’t.  We were walking down the street, having had no interactions of note with anyone and suddenly my friend went flying against a passing taxi with a cop attached to him.

    While my third friend and I looked on in horror, several witnesses, whom I had never met, gave me business cards and offered to come back from out of state to testify as to what they saw.

    • #76
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    When I was in New Orleans with my friends and minding our own business, a cop came out of nowhere and threw my friend against a passing car.

    Why do I suspect there’s more to the story?

    There isn’t. We were walking down the street, having had no interactions of note with anyone and suddenly my friend went flying against a passing taxi with a cop attached to him.

    Maybe that was all there was to YOUR story, but there might have been more to THE story.  Like, maybe a recently-held-up-at-gunpoint liquor store in the area, or something.

    It’s easy to come up with excesses, and your situation can certainly qualify.  But sometimes people seem to expect there to be a trial, conviction, appeal, affirmation, etc, etc, before a cop can even ask them for ID, let alone before an arrest is made.  At least if it’s THEMSELVES.  But the real world is such that, if – for example – someone just held up a 7-11, you might get stopped and asked some questions, to show ID, etc, just because you happen to be near the 7-11, or in the area where the criminal was thought to have fled to, etc etc.  And that can legitimately happen without you being tried and convicted first.

    • #77
  18. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Maybe that was all there was to YOUR story, but there might have been more to THE story. Like, maybe a recently-held-up-at-gunpoint liquor store in the area, or something.

    Nope. They were just jerks.  That’s why the charges of “obstructing a side walk” were dismissed by the court if my friend agreed not to sue the city.

    • #78
  19. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge
    DonG (skeptic)
    @DonG

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    My goal for the week is to convince at least one person that cities officials are responsible for policing, not cops.  Cities hire cops, give them badges, train them, pay them, equip them, and give them policies, procedures and priorities.  Tyranny really comes from the city council.

    • #79
  20. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    The way police operate is really a matter of local control. There has to be citizen involvement in local governance–in the schools, in the fire department, in social services, in the library, in the recreation programs, and in the police department. 

    If police officers are not acting the way a town thinks they should, it’s up to the townspeople to fix it. Form a committee and establish goals for the police department. They are employees. 

    None of us can do too much about what happens politically on a national level. Almost all of us can effect change in our own cities and towns and states. 

    • #80
  21. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    Arguably, that isn’t the cops’ fault. At least not directly. It’s their employers – the cities, counties, states – that want the money.

    That is fair. 

    For me, this is the number 1 cause of the breakdown between the police and the Middle class.

    • #81
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    TBA (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Find me a cop who is against no knock warrants.

    The police in my city will not even investigate robbery from a car. Not worth their time.

    They will, however, pull me over in the middle of the night because a semi truck startled me and I had tires hit the lane sized shoulder. So, their time is best spent harassing me.

    I used to believe in them. Not now. Now they haul people to the ground for not social distancing. They put fathers in handcuffs for being at a playground alone with their daughter.

    There is example after example. How about the young lady ticketed for driving by herself in lock down.

    These are all acts of tyrants. I am building a picture based on the information I have.

    I see a police car in the road and I am afraid. Am I speeding? Even if not, that car represents a threat to my liberty. A car passes me and I am afraid.

    But, I am overreacting.

    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    I feel this too, but we must remember that no one uploads, much less shoots, videos of police doing things right. There are just north of 680,000 full-time cops in the US who interact with humans and human scum every day of the year.

    Really, it comes down to a matter of trust; some people trust that the police good with a few bad apples, and some the reverse.

    Both views are supported by the evidence at hand which is largely sensationalized and anecdotal.

    When ones own experience is always that they the the enemy , that is not just the news. That is the issue. The cop is always there to get me. That drives me and I think others, to loo, at other evidence  and go, “man, what happened to that guy could have happened to me” and it is belivable.

    • #82
  23. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    My goal for the week is to convince at least one person that cities officials are responsible for policing, not cops. Cities hire cops, give them badges, train them, pay them, equip them, and give them policies, procedures and priorities. Tyranny really comes from the city council.

    I don’t disagree.

    And there are police who behave badly

     

    • #83
  24. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Find me a cop who is against no knock warrants.

    The police in my city will not even investigate robbery from a car. Not worth their time.

    They will, however, pull me over in the middle of the night because a semi truck startled me and I had tires hit the lane sized shoulder. So, their time is best spent harassing me.

    I used to believe in them. Not now. Now they haul people to the ground for not social distancing. They put fathers in handcuffs for being at a playground alone with their daughter.

    There is example after example. How about the young lady ticketed for driving by herself in lock down.

    These are all acts of tyrants. I am building a picture based on the information I have.

    I see a police car in the road and I am afraid. Am I speeding? Even if not, that car represents a threat to my liberty. A car passes me and I am afraid.

    But, I am overreacting.

    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    I feel this too, but we must remember that no one uploads, much less shoots, videos of police doing things right. There are just north of 680,000 full-time cops in the US who interact with humans and human scum every day of the year.

    Really, it comes down to a matter of trust; some people trust that the police good with a few bad apples, and some the reverse.

    Both views are supported by the evidence at hand which is largely sensationalized and anecdotal.

    When ones own experience is always that they the the enemy , that is not just the news. That is the issue. The cop is always there to get me. That drives me and I think others, to loo, at other evidence and go, “man, what happened to that guy could have happened to me” and it is belivable.

    Does your local police force have a civilian ride-along program?  If so, you should sign up.  

    One of the most interesting nights of my life was the Friday night shift I spent on ride-along with Anchorage PD.  There are a *lot* of scummy people out there, and cops spend a lot of time dealing with them.  Of course it colors their personalities.

    I don’t know what the solution is, but I certainly understand why some go bad.   It’s pretty comparable to a case of PTSD in a soldier.

     

     

     

    • #84
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Find me a cop who is against no knock warrants.

    The police in my city will not even investigate robbery from a car. Not worth their time.

    They will, however, pull me over in the middle of the night because a semi truck startled me and I had tires hit the lane sized shoulder. So, their time is best spent harassing me.

    I used to believe in them. Not now. Now they haul people to the ground for not social distancing. They put fathers in handcuffs for being at a playground alone with their daughter.

    There is example after example. How about the young lady ticketed for driving by herself in lock down.

    These are all acts of tyrants. I am building a picture based on the information I have.

    I see a police car in the road and I am afraid. Am I speeding? Even if not, that car represents a threat to my liberty. A car passes me and I am afraid.

    But, I am overreacting.

    If the police want to have a better relationship with the citizens (not civilians, citizens) they serve, then they could start with not harassing citizens going about their business and going after people committing crimes that don’t result in money in their pockets.

    I feel this too, but we must remember that no one uploads, much less shoots, videos of police doing things right. There are just north of 680,000 full-time cops in the US who interact with humans and human scum every day of the year.

    Really, it comes down to a matter of trust; some people trust that the police good with a few bad apples, and some the reverse.

    Both views are supported by the evidence at hand which is largely sensationalized and anecdotal.

    When ones own experience is always that they the the enemy , that is not just the news. That is the issue. The cop is always there to get me. That drives me and I think others, to loo, at other evidence and go, “man, what happened to that guy could have happened to me” and it is belivable.

    Does your local police force have a civilian ride-along program? If so, you should sign up.

    One of the most interesting nights of my life was the Friday night shift I spent on ride-along with Anchorage PD. There are a *lot* of scummy people out there, and cops spend a lot of time dealing with them. Of course it colors their personalities.

    I don’t know what the solution is, but I certainly understand why some go bad. It’s pretty comparable to a case of PTSD in a soldier.

     

    I get there are scummy people. I have a problem with the walk up assumption being that *I* am one of them. What I hear in defense of the police is “They don’t know you”. Maybe the core problem is, we are all strangers to each other, and therefore have to assume everyone else is a threat. 

     

    • #85
  26. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    I don’t know what the solution is, but I certainly understand why some go bad. It’s pretty comparable to a case of PTSD in a soldier.

    The core to the problem is that too many things are illegal

    • #86
  27. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    [Buncha snippitude] 

    When ones own experience is always that they the the enemy , that is not just the news. That is the issue. The cop is always there to get me. That drives me and I think others, to loo, at other evidence and go, “man, what happened to that guy could have happened to me” and it is belivable.

    Does your local police force have a civilian ride-along program? If so, you should sign up.

    One of the most interesting nights of my life was the Friday night shift I spent on ride-along with Anchorage PD. There are a *lot* of scummy people out there, and cops spend a lot of time dealing with them. Of course it colors their personalities.

    I don’t know what the solution is, but I certainly understand why some go bad. It’s pretty comparable to a case of PTSD in a soldier.

     

    I get there are scummy people. I have a problem with the walk up assumption being that *I* am one of them. What I hear in defense of the police is “They don’t know you”. Maybe the core problem is, we are all strangers to each other, and therefore have to assume everyone else is a threat.

    Drawing police from the immediate neighborhood works well in – I think – Hong Kong. However, such people are probably more easily suborned by neighborhood criminals. 

    • #87
  28. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I could see attacking the police station and trashing cop cars, same with marching on city hall. Those are the people actually associated with the death, which looks bad.

    How does that go to robbing auto-parts stores and Target?

    In downtown Fargo, protesters stole beer from a burgers & beer joint and broke windows in a taco restaurant.  How that evens the score with some dangerous cops in Minneapolis I don’t quite understand.

    • #88
  29. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I could see attacking the police station and trashing cop cars, same with marching on city hall. Those are the people actually associated with the death, which looks bad.

    How does that go to robbing auto-parts stores and Target?

    In downtown Fargo, protesters stole beer from a burgers & beer joint and broke windows in a taco restaurant. How that evens the score with some dangerous cops in Minneapolis I don’t quite understand.

    Because it’s how they think they will get people to vote for Biden. . 

    • #89
  30. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Chauvin amended complaint:

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6935793/Chauvin-Amended-Criminal-Complaint.pdf

    Lane:

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6935804-Thomas-Lane-Complaint.html

    Kueng:

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6935805/J-Alexander-Kueng-Complaint.pdf

    Thao:

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6935803/Tou-Thao-Complaint.pdf

    Thanks to https://twitter.com/webster BIG TIME.

    • #90
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