Aircraft Carrier CO Relieved of Command

 

Captain Brett Crozier was relieved of command for going outside the chain of command because the Coronavirus had infected his ship.  His informing of enough people of the problem resulted in the press getting ahold of this story and publicizing it.  Crozier emailed 30-plus people but he did not inform his own commanding officer. That’s particularly damning.

Apparently, his actions were popular with the crew as he was cheered when leaving the ship. It’s still early in the story, and there may be more or changed information that could change my mind, but given the facts as I laid out, I agree with the Navy Secretary’s decision.

Here’s some realities about the U.S. military:

  • The mission comes first
  • People are a close second

Not enough people who join the military are told this by their recruiter.  Those two maxims should be posted in every recruiting station, so they know where they stand when they raise their right hand to take the oath.

I did know, because before I enlisted, I had taken some courses in ROTC. Because they do tell officer candidates what they don’t explicitly tell enlisted. Captain Crozier forgot. Or he chose to ignore that.

Some other thoughts:

  • This is an important military asset and it was sidelined. There may have been good reasons to risk the crew, if that is what the Navy intended.
  • The personnel on that ship were of low risk of dying, given what we know so far about the demographics and other risk factors. I suspect that the crew would have been fine.  When enlisting, you’re given a thorough medical checkup, and those remain ongoing as long as you remain in uniform.  If anything, they might have developed an immunity, making the unit more effective.

Captain Crozier will apparently be allowed to remain in the Navy, but if he in effect compromised a major military asset, shouldn’t he be court-martialed?

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  1. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    What was traditionally the way the Navy or other armed services addressed infectious disease among their troops? I know that disease wiped out a lot of soldiers prior to WWII. 

    There is an interesting story in the Navy Times about vaccine development and wars.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/06/06/how-world-war-ii-spurred-vaccine-innovation/

    • #31
  2. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Al Sparks: People are a close distant second

    FIFY.

    • #32
  3. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Mendel (View Comment):
    But once it’s on, it will probably spread like wildfire since everyone is in such close proximity.

    They’ve got NBC* equipment aboard that ship.  The ship is DESIGNED to survive nuclear, biological, and chemical attacks. They can make every compartment water tight, and they have positive pressure in critical of the parts of the ship when necessary.  They have gas masks and MOPP gear.  

    There is no reason that ship should have been out of service at all.  

    * Yes, I know they call it CBRN nowadays, but I never got used to it.  I still call it NBC.

    • #33
  4. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Sec Navy was out of line in his comments addressing the crew. I expect him to be relieved soon.

    Yep. Got a little too full of himself, and in fact has to go for the same reason as Cozier. He gave a good apology. Losing Modly at this time is the worst part of this whole caper. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/navy-thomas-modly-resignation-uss-theodore-roosevelt-crozier

    • #34
  5. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Aloha Johnny (View Comment):

    CAPT Crozier is a relative and I was at his Change of Command last fall.

    I have no inside information as to what was going through his mind when he decided to hit send. But I know he would not do so lightly. He has no interest in the limelight and always puts his sailors and subordinates first.

    I would advise holding your scorn for a dedicated officer who made a very tough call in a tough situation until more information comes out.

    Just a fact to ponder: The carrier was sailing towards Guam for more than a week and when it docked the brass still had not come up with a way to evacuate the sick and separate the sailors. That is when CPT Crozier sent the email.

    I will not withhold my scorn.  I’m sorry his behavior causes embarrassment to you and your family, it is well-deserved, though.  You should shun him for a while and make sure he knows why.

    With your shield or on it.  One of the most important motivators for good behavior in bad time is the resultant shame if you make the wrong decision.  

    There is no conceivable reason for him to have acted this way.  There is no further story.  This is a smoking gun story and there is no earthly excuse for his behavior.  

    I’m sure he’s a good man, he loves his dog and is good to his wife and children.  I’m sure he is very smart and capable.  But he is a panicking officer in the face of danger and adversity of a somewhat mild sort.  He cannot be trusted with command.

    • #35
  6. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong.  They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats.  He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards.  But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead.  There is no excuse.

    • #36
  7. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Mendel (View Comment):
    But once it’s on, it will probably spread like wildfire since everyone is in such close proximity.

    They’ve got NBC* equipment aboard that ship. The ship is DESIGNED to survive nuclear, biological, and chemical attacks. They can make every compartment water tight, and they have positive pressure in critical of the parts of the ship when necessary. They have gas masks and MOPP gear.

    There is no reason that ship should have been out of service at all.

    * Yes, I know they call it CBRN nowadays, but I never got used to it. I still call it NBC.

    I thought of that as well, particularly in light of a (paywalled) WSJ piece by William Toti, who commanded a USN attack submarine.

    I found myself thinking that this may also have been a failure of imagination on Capt. Crozier’s part? As you mentioned — carry on the remainder of the deployment using CBRN procedures for the quarantine period?

    Was a terrific opportunity to study the disease in a younger population than the Diamond Princess missed? A couple of hundred thousand rapid SARS-CoV-2 tests would have provided insight into CBRN effectiveness, epidemiology including how common the virus is in asymptomatic younger adults under optimum conditions to spread it. 

    Maybe a prospective study of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as prophylaxis?

    • #37
  8. Roderic Coolidge
    Roderic
    @rhfabian

    I imagine that the captain had tried going up the chain of command in every way he could think of only to be rebuffed and given an unsatisfactory response.  He must have felt he had his back up against the wall to do something like this.

    • #38
  9. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Do you remember the movie, “Crimson Tide”?  It’s about a ballistic missile submarine, and it’s a fairly anti-patriotic movie, which isn’t surprising since it stars Denzel Washington as the hero.

    In one sequence, there was a fire in one portion of the ship and the captain decided to run a drill during the fire, later explaining that the confusion of the fire was a perfect time to train the crew.  

    Crozier should have taken advantage of the virus to train his crew on hygiene, NBC procedures or anything except telling the world that our very expensive warship was filled with limp people, especially its commander.

    • #39
  10. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Roderic (View Comment):

    He must have felt he had his back up against the wall to do something like this.

    That failure of nerve, failure of imagination, failure of trust in the people he reported to, failure to trust his crew,  and failure to keep opsec is why he had no business being in command.

    • #40
  11. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Sec Navy was out of line in his comments addressing the crew. I expect him to be relieved soon.

    He just resigned.

    Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly resigned on Tuesday, a day after leaked audio revealed he called the ousted commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt “stupid” in an address to the ship’s crew, according to a US official and a former senior military official.

    The Navy and Department of Defense did not respond to a request for comment. Undersecretary of the Army James McPherson has been tapped to succeed Modly, a US official and a defense official tells CNN. McPherson is a retired rear admiral and was the former judge advocate general of the Navy.

    • #41
  12. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I am mystified by all of this. There were two admirals between the sea oh and the secretary of the Navy.

    I thought this was a good interview with Jed Babbin. 

    • #42
  13. Robert E. Lee Member
    Robert E. Lee
    @RobertELee

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Mendel (View Comment):

    This is what readiness reports are for.

    You don’t think he was sending readiness reports? Commanders do not operate in a vacuum, they are in constant communication with headquarters. This captain didn’t suddenly decide to tell everyone the Navy was being mean to him. He had to have repeatedly reported his concerns about failing readiness rates and the health of his crew (how many were in critcal specialties like nuclear maintenance?). His immediate superior was aboard but not apparently responsive (I would like to know more about that failure of leadership…think it through), to Crozier took it up the chain. And up the chain he did take it through classified channels. I’ve seen the types of readiness reports that are required to go all the way up. They can be faked if you have the stones but the reports go regularly.  So talk that makes it seem like one morning he just decides to send and unclassifed message through a government network without regard of the consequences seems rather simplistic.

    As for providing support to the Chinese be weakening are abilities…seriously? Has Pelosi retired from the Chinese intelligence service or the senate armed service committee? Please!

    • #43
  14. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Robert E. Lee (View Comment):
    His immediate superior was aboard but not apparently responsive (I would like to know more about that failure of leadership…think it through), to Crozier took it up the chain.

    You might be right about this chain of command. Crozier might just happen to be the one who stands out in this case. The ranks are probably filled with flag and general officers who are brought up and promoted to behave in ways that would have been unacceptable in earlier times. 

    • #44
  15. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    • #45
  16. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    Says who?

    • #46
  17. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Robert E. Lee (View Comment):
    As for providing support to the Chinese be weakening are abilities…seriously? Has Pelosi retired from the Chinese intelligence service or the senate armed service committee? Please!

    Good perspective.

    • #47
  18. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Is it possible that we don’t know all that we need to know in order to judge one way or another, and that more information might come out later?  I realize a wait-and-see attitude is a good way to keep more information from ever coming out, but what if we have an obnoxious, pushy wait-and-see attitude?

    • #48
  19. Robert E. Lee Member
    Robert E. Lee
    @RobertELee

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    Says who?

    Says anyone who has spent any 18 hour days sucking rubber.

    • #49
  20. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    Says who?

    Says me, who’s worn it aboard a warship at sea during multiple exercises. Maybe your experience trumps mine, I won’t rule that out – that’s why I asked. Do you have experience with that stuff?

    • #50
  21. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    Says who?

    Says me, who’s worn it aboard a warship at sea during multiple exercises. Maybe your experience trumps mine, I won’t rule that out – that’s why I asked. Do you have experience with that stuff?

    Sure it sucks, but it’s not written anywhere that life aboard ship is not allowed to suck.

    I’m sure my experience does not trump yours.  I’ve never worn MOPP aboard ship.  I imagine it’s not as miserable as wearing it in the field, but perhaps have clean decks and air conditioning, and running water does make it harder.  Who knows?

    The point is that the Captain did not take advantage of everything at his disposal.   There are always ways, that might or might not work.  Did he try them?

    • #51
  22. J Ro Member
    J Ro
    @JRo

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Mendel (View Comment):

    If there was such a high need for the TR to stay at sea, why did Crozier’s supervisors order him to sail to Guam after they detected the virus in a few dozen sailors? That doesn’t sound to me like the Navy places a high priority on keeping a constant presence in the South China Sea.

     

    Your question here seems to make an assumption that being in proximity to Guam means the TR is no longer deployed in the theater of its operation. There’s just no reason for such an assumption. Being near Guam simply enables a needed operation to deal with the effects of the virus on the crew.

    The fact that TR recently deployed from homeport San Diego to the Western Pacific indicates it is one of, if not the most combat ready of the Carrier Battle Groups. The other Carrier Battle Group in the region is home-ported in Japan. Since the closing of the US base in Subic Bay in The Philippines in the early 1990s, Guam is the most capable and strategically located American navy base in the Western Pacific. There the carrier has access to a USN hospital, a large USAF base, and supplies and technical support for everything including nuclear reactors and weapons. Going to Guam keeps the Battle Group in the Western Pacific, within Commander 7th Fleet’s area of responsibility (which includes the South China Sea), and provides access to further support from extremely capable allied bases in Japan and Singapore which are much closer than Hawaii and San Diego. 

    • #52
  23. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Robert E. Lee (View Comment):
    As for providing support to the Chinese be weakening are abilities…seriously? Has Pelosi retired from the Chinese intelligence service or the senate armed service committee? Please!

    Good perspective.

    Pelosi doesn’t command an aircraft carrier.  We don’t expect much from her.

    • #53
  24. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    Says who?

    Says me, who’s worn it aboard a warship at sea during multiple exercises. Maybe your experience trumps mine, I won’t rule that out – that’s why I asked. Do you have experience with that stuff?

    I retired from active duty in June 2008, (on terminal leave Feb 2008).  At that time, my last experience with MOPP was in 2007, when I had to undergo recert with the ground ensemble (my last aircrew experience was in 2002). Had you asked me at any time after 2008, I would be agreeing with @barfly regarding the continued use of MOPP gear.

    Then I deployed as a civilian for the DoD in 2017, and I had to undergo the NBC training again.

    Truthfully, the new stuff is awesome compared to the stuff I initially trained with – much more comfortable than before. That isn’t the problem.

    The chem warfare stuff isn’t intended to be worn continuously. Humans have to eat, sleep, and relieve themselves. Meaning there are decontaminated zones where those things take place (remember the various ‘zones’ from your own training. There is the liquid hazard zone, the vapor hazard zone, and the cleared zone.) Infectious disease cannot be tested for to clear people between zones, the way that various tape/paper (M9 tape/ M8 paper) and instruments can clear someone from a chem zone or a nuclear zone.

    That stuff doesn’t work with an infectious disease.

     

    • #54
  25. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    You’re right – there is no way to contain an airborne disease, spread by asymptomatic victims, on board a functioning warship. That leaves the option of managing it.

    No, it’s wrong. They have gas masks, MOPP gear, and positive ventilation that is designed to combat biological threats. He could have ordered everyone into MOPP gear immediately, and instituted rigid hygiene standards. But he wrote a letter intended for the world to see his ship was disabled instead. There is no excuse.

    YGBKM. Do you have experience with that stuff? It is not possible for a ship to operate under CBR (whatever) conditions indefinitely. That’s Condition 2 at best – not quite actual battle, but close.

    Says who?

    Says me, who’s worn it aboard a warship at sea during multiple exercises. Maybe your experience trumps mine, I won’t rule that out – that’s why I asked. Do you have experience with that stuff?

    I retired from active duty in June 2008, (on terminal leave Feb 2008). At that time, my last experience with MOPP was in 2007, when I had to undergo recert with the ground ensemble (my last aircrew experience was in 2002). Had you asked me at any time after 2008, I would be agreeing with @barfly regarding the continued use of MOPP gear.

    Then I deployed as a civilian for the DoD in 2017, and I had to undergo the NBC training again.

    Truthfully, the new stuff is awesome compared to the stuff I initially trained with – much more comfortable than before. That isn’t the problem.

    The chem warfare stuff isn’t intended to be worn continuously. Humans have to eat, sleep, and relieve themselves. Meaning there are decontaminated zones where those things take place (remember the various ‘zones’ from your own training. There is the liquid hazard zone, the vapor hazard zone, and the cleared zone.) Infectious disease cannot be tested for to clear people between zones, the way that various tape/paper (M9 tape/ M8 paper) and instruments can clear someone from a chem zone or a nuclear zone.

    That stuff doesn’t work with an infectious disease.

     

    I’ll bet if they simply wore masks it would do wonders to prevent contagion.  The point is that there is a lot of room for ideas on how to prevent infection.  A naval ship’s captain has a lot more authority to enforce rules than a pleasure cruise ship.  

    • #55
  26. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I’ll bet if they simply wore masks it would do wonders to prevent contagion. The point is that there is a lot of room for ideas on how to prevent infection. A naval ship’s captain has a lot more authority to enforce rules than a pleasure cruise ship.

    Can’t eat with a CBRNE mask on. You still wear that when you transition from the vapor hazard area to the cleared area, when it is taken off. Then, all of a sudden, you are in closer quarters with everyone else in the cleared area than you would be otherwise.

    • #56
  27. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Instugator (View Comment):
    That stuff doesn’t work with an infectious disease.

    I think that’s the basic answer to Skyler’s misapprehension. The things that can be done in the field to respond to a chemical environment just don’t apply to contagion.

    • #57
  28. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    That stuff doesn’t work with an infectious disease.

    I think that’s the basic answer to Skyler’s misapprehension. The things that can be done in the field to respond to a chemical environment just don’t apply to contagion.

    What makes you think it doesn’t work for a contagion?  It works better than nothing.  My point is that there are plenty of ways to skin the cat, I was giving an extreme example.  

    Protecting against biological warfare is a critical capability of any warship.  

    • #58
  29. Robert E. Lee Member
    Robert E. Lee
    @RobertELee

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    That stuff doesn’t work with an infectious disease.

    I think that’s the basic answer to Skyler’s misapprehension. The things that can be done in the field to respond to a chemical environment just don’t apply to contagion.

    What makes you think it doesn’t work for a contagion? It works better than nothing. My point is that there are plenty of ways to skin the cat, I was giving an extreme example.

    Protecting against biological warfare is a critical capability of any warship.

    It obviously does not work against contagion and that is a lesson we’d better learn pretty darned fast.  Although, if history is any indicator this will be swept under the rug and ignored.

    China, meanwhile, checks off the box that says, “works.”

     

    • #59
  30. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Robert E. Lee (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    That stuff doesn’t work with an infectious disease.

    I think that’s the basic answer to Skyler’s misapprehension. The things that can be done in the field to respond to a chemical environment just don’t apply to contagion.

    What makes you think it doesn’t work for a contagion? It works better than nothing. My point is that there are plenty of ways to skin the cat, I was giving an extreme example.

    Protecting against biological warfare is a critical capability of any warship.

    It obviously does not work against contagion and that is a lesson we’d better learn pretty darned fast. Although, if history is any indicator this will be swept under the rug and ignored.

    China, meanwhile, checks off the box that says, “works.”

     

    Why obviously?  Does it work better than nothing?

    • #60
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