Day 72: COVID-19 When Will This Be Over?

 

I listened intently to the President’s briefing Tuesday. This was the briefing in which the President and his team were outlining the compelling data that persuaded the President that the shuttering of businesses remain important through the end of April. The data presented were basically threefold: The alternative looks of the epidemic with and without aggressive measures, the IHME chart on epidemic projections for the US with aggressive measures, and the contrast in case growth (controlled for population) between states that started early on aggressive measures (Washington and California) with states that did not (New York and New Jersey).

@cliffbrown included the video of the briefing in his post:“I’m a cheerleader for America”

Here are screen grabs of the 3 charts:

Featured prominently in Dr. Birx’s presentation was the IHME model from the University of Washington. No doubt many people watching heard about it for the first time. We on Ricochet have been discussing it since I posted Day 68: COVID-19 Comorbidity. As has been discussed there are questions about its predictive power. But for policymakers (in the absence of a better tool), the question becomes is it plausible? Are the predictions of the IHME model plausible even though it has to be refined as more data becomes available?

The White House press corps continues to be a miserable group of ideologically driven numbskulls. If they were doing their job the IHME model would not be new to them and they would have spotted the obvious question that I pose in the title post: When will this be over? And there were hints in the presentation that the press never picked up on. First hint: in the chart that the White House put up to contrast the non-intervention versus intervention case — flattening the curve — the endpoint for intervention stretches the epidemic out in time. In other words, the epidemic burns out more quickly if you do nothing than if you try to intervene. So why would you intervene? The White House says “to save lives” but here they are being a little cagey.

Will spreading out the epidemic reduce the number of people who will die from COVID-19, all things being equal? The answer is technically “no” but all things are not equal. If you had an epidemic for which we were fully prepared with whatever efficacious treatments could be applied, then the death rate would be whatever it would be regardless of how long it went on. What was missing for this epidemic was preparation. On day one there was no universal testing protocol, no vaccine, insufficient PPE for both health workers and the public, and no maximally efficacious treatment protocol. So spreading the epidemic out in time buys us weeks to catch up as best we can. No vaccine, but better treatment protocols and improved PPE for the health workers (and the public at some point).

But in another sense the White House is completely accurate when it says spreading the epidemic out in time will save lives: It will save the lives of people in need of treatment for trauma and from diseases other than COVID-19. If the health system is broken by the demands of the epidemic, then more people die from all causes, not just the epidemic disease. What President Trump, then, was persuaded about was that we need the month of April to save the health care system. And that saving the health system was sufficiently important that the economy should be sacrificed for another couple of weeks.

The second hint about how long the epidemic will go on was in the IHME death data. Again, the chart showed the tail going out into July. Maybe today the press is digging into the data and seeing what I inserted at the top of this post: the IMHE projection of when the last death from COVID-19 will be recorded from this current outbreak.

Will the economy be shut down until no more deaths are recorded? No. The irony is that the state with the worst epidemic response will be the lead indicator that it is OK to start re-opening the economy. New York is projected to record its last death from COVID-19 on May 10; California is projected to record its last death from COVID-19 on July 1. In order to record that last death, there will be a decline in the daily growth of cases and death. For New York, it will be as pronounced in the decline as in the rise because its slope is closer to the non-intervention model. Therefore, the signal for decline will be stronger and sooner. Places like California the signal will be weaker and later.

Whether it is the IHME model specifically that the White House is looking to, or simply its plausibility that is useful, is unknown. But the model has to get better as more data is gathered. In the meantime, the shelter-in-place orders will continue. Locally our County order has been updated and extended to May 3. But…and this is a big but…the clarifications they have made as to what are ESSENTIAL BUSINESSES and what are permitted MINIMUM BASIC OPERATIONS for non-essential businesses portend broader economic activity than what the initial order envisioned.

[Note: Links to all my CoVID-19 posts can be found here.]

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  1. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Just got off a CDC Webinar on clinical treatment of critical Covid 19 patients.

    People are not going to be happy with the following recommendation by the panel.

    you still trust the CDC after they botched the test kits and sat on a 2005 report demonstrating the efficacy of anti malaria drugs against the corona virus known as SARS?

    Did I say I trust the CDC?

    I was reporting what was said in a webinar run by the CDC.

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

     

    are these private sector clinicians?  or do they work for CDC or public sector?

    do you have names of these clinicians?

    where were these trials conducted? NYC? Michigan? NJ?

    how does the CDC quantify ‘insufficient’?

     

    • #91
  2. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    • #92
  3. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

     

    Hydroxychloroquine should be first line of defense, i.e. before going to hospital/ER/ICU

     

    • #93
  4. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

     

    Hydroxychloroquine should be first line of defense, i.e. before going to hospital/ER/ICU

     

    I did an edit on my #87.

    • #94
  5. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    what was the median age of the patients studied?

    and in what country or state?

     

    • #95
  6. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Trajan (View Comment):

    We’ve gone from testing 7,174 people on March 14 to testing 44,068 on March 21, and — try not to be shocked at this — we’ve seen a giant increase in the number of cases despite a pretty small increase in deaths. By March 28 we’ll likely be testing 100,000 Americans a day, and we’ll end up with huge increases in cases. That’s a known thing, and it’s a good thing, but our mainstream media has proven they can’t handle it responsibly. We will see story after inflammatory story claiming a massive explosion in cases, making for the necessity of an ever-more draconian lockdown of the economy and capturing all of us as prisoners in our homes. Every politician in America will be carried along in this wave of panic, so much so that it will soon be, if it isn’t now, outside of the Overton Window to call for a scaleback in the velocity of the overreaction. Just leaving things in their current stranglehold will be considered by the clowns in the press as “inaction” as the caseload increase produced by the testing mounts.

    https://spectator.org/how-many-lives-is-our-national-lockdown-going-to-cost/

    This is what I fear and why I keep asking when will it all end? Where will we draw the line and let the chips fall where they may? Society can’t continue like this forever.

    • #96
  7. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    what was the median age of the patients studied?

    and in what country or state?

     

    This website has a lot of good data for Michigan.  https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173—,00.html

    I believe it is update at 3pm every day.  You can find the male/female, age cases and deaths, and it also breaks it down by race.  

    • #97
  8. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Trajan (View Comment):

    We’ve gone from testing 7,174 people on March 14 to testing 44,068 on March 21, and — try not to be shocked at this — we’ve seen a giant increase in the number of cases despite a pretty small increase in deaths. By March 28 we’ll likely be testing 100,000 Americans a day, and we’ll end up with huge increases in cases. That’s a known thing, and it’s a good thing, but our mainstream media has proven they can’t handle it responsibly. We will see story after inflammatory story claiming a massive explosion in cases, making for the necessity of an ever-more draconian lockdown of the economy and capturing all of us as prisoners in our homes. Every politician in America will be carried along in this wave of panic, so much so that it will soon be, if it isn’t now, outside of the Overton Window to call for a scaleback in the velocity of the overreaction. Just leaving things in their current stranglehold will be considered by the clowns in the press as “inaction” as the caseload increase produced by the testing mounts.

    https://spectator.org/how-many-lives-is-our-national-lockdown-going-to-cost/

    This is what I fear and why I keep asking when will it all end? Where will we draw the line and let the chips fall where they may. Society can’t continue like this forever.

    There’s a good case to be made that the line could be drawn in some parts of the country–perhaps the majority of the country geographically.

    But, adding yesterday and today only, there have been 55,000 new cases in the U.S.  Yes, I know, New York, New Jersey, etc.  But people in those areas migrate and it’s still a lot of infections.  Let’s at least keep that in mind when we start drawing lines.

    • #98
  9. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    what was the median age of the patients studied?

    and in what country or state?

    This website has a lot of good data for Michigan. https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173—,00.html

    I believe it is update at 3pm every day. You can find the male/female, age cases and deaths, and it also breaks it down by race.

    Thanks for the link.  This has good information. except for one part. Hispanic/Latino have had zero deaths in Michigan???

    I wonder if Michigan is providing sanctuary for illegal aliens from Latin America.

    what is a non-hispanic Latino?

     

     

    • #99
  10. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Just got off a CDC Webinar on clinical treatment of critical Covid 19 patients.

    People are not going to be happy with the following recommendation by the panel.

    you still trust the CDC after they botched the test kits and sat on a 2005 report demonstrating the efficacy of anti malaria drugs against the corona virus known as SARS?

    Did I say I trust the CDC?

    I was reporting what was said in a webinar run by the CDC.

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

     

    are these private sector clinicians? or do they work for CDC or public sector?

    do you have names of these clinicians?

    where were these trials conducted? NYC? Michigan? NJ?

    how does the CDC quantify ‘insufficient’?

     

    Tell you what here’s the link to the 1 hour webinar.

    Watch it yourself

    Presenters

    CAPT Tim Uyeki, MD
    Clinical Team Lead
    COVID-19 Response
    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

    Michael Bundesmann, MD, FCCP
    Medical Director of Respiratory Therapy
    Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, EvergreenHealth
    Kirkland, WA

    Waleed Alhazzani, MD, MSc, FRCPC
    Associate Professor,
    Department of Medicine, McMaster University
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

    Clinical Management of Critically Ill Adults with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

     

     

    • #100
  11. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    Hydroxychloroquine should be first line of defense, i.e. before going to hospital/ER/ICU

    And you know that for a fact.

    • #101
  12. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    Hydroxychloroquine should be first line of defense, i.e. before going to hospital/ER/ICU

    And you know that for a fact.

    No, but every doctor that has promoted the idea of its effectiveness from their experience has suggested that it is effective in the first days of symptoms and not effective in the seriously ill in ICU or on ventilators.

    • #102
  13. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    what was the median age of the patients studied?

    and in what country or state?

     

    Here:

    Ingraham’s ‘Medicine Cabinet’ on effectiveness of …

    • #103
  14. Al French, PIT Geezer Moderator
    Al French, PIT Geezer
    @AlFrench

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    what was the median age of the patients studied?

    and in what country or state?

    This website has a lot of good data for Michigan. https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173—,00.html

    I believe it is update at 3pm every day. You can find the male/female, age cases and deaths, and it also breaks it down by race.

    Thanks for the link. This has good information. except for one part. Hispanic/Latino have had zero deaths in Michigan???

    I wonder if Michigan is providing sanctuary for illegal aliens from Latin America.

    what is a non-hispanic Latino?

    One with a father of Central European extraction who kills a black man in self defense.

    • #104
  15. Ray Kujawa Coolidge
    Ray Kujawa
    @RayKujawa

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

     

    Hydroxychloroquine should be first line of defense, i.e. before going to hospital/ER/ICU

     

    Michigan governor Whitmer reversed herself and is now requesting HCQ from national stockpiles. From Fox today:

    Michigan, this week, requested hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine from the Strategic National Stockpile for physicians to use to help treat patients with COVID-19, after the Food and Drug Administration over the weekend granted an emergency use authorization for the anti-malarial drugs.

    • #105
  16. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Just got off a CDC Webinar on clinical treatment of critical Covid 19 patients.

    People are not going to be happy with the following recommendation by the panel.

    you still trust the CDC after they botched the test kits and sat on a 2005 report demonstrating the efficacy of anti malaria drugs against the corona virus known as SARS?

    Did I say I trust the CDC?

    I was reporting what was said in a webinar run by the CDC.

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    https://blogs.webmd.com/my-experience/20200331/i-am-a-healthy-31-year-old-with-no-medical-issues-covid19-hospitalized-me-for-8-days?

    spoiler alert: she was given hydroxychloroquine and z-pak

    do you believe in miracles?

     

    • #106
  17. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Just got off a CDC Webinar on clinical treatment of critical Covid 19 patients.

    People are not going to be happy with the following recommendation by the panel.

    you still trust the CDC after they botched the test kits and sat on a 2005 report demonstrating the efficacy of anti malaria drugs against the corona virus known as SARS?

    Did I say I trust the CDC?

    I was reporting what was said in a webinar run by the CDC.

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    https://blogs.webmd.com/my-experience/20200331/i-am-a-healthy-31-year-old-with-no-medical-issues-covid19-hospitalized-me-for-8-days?

    spoiler alert: she was given hydroxychloroquine and z-pak

    do you believe in miracles?

     

    Do you believe one patient is real evidence?

    I thought you were a math guy?

    • #107
  18. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):
    Is this really a national crisis, or just a crisis in New York?

    I think we will eventually have to recompute optimal population density numbers in terms of municipal services. It’s a standard of living issue more than anything else, I think.

    I see there’s a petition drive on to close the bridges to the Cape. Never happen, but it’s a sign of the times.

    It’s getting bad here. Yup. And I’m not at all sure they won’t close the bridges if the comment section in the Cape Cod Times is any indication of the mood here.

    Cape Cod Hospital is officially closed to everything except covid-19 cases.

    I’ve stopped watching the numbers. It’s too scary. That said, when I go to the dump, I’m seeing a lot of New York and Florida plates. We’ve known this would happen. Everyone wants to go someplace safe from this horror. I don’t blame the visitors for coming here. And I don’t blame the year-round residents for wishing they would not come here.

    Dear Lord, what a mess we are in.

    I’ve placed all of my hope in the weather becoming inhospitable for this virus–high humidity and temperatures above 52. I have this written on a piece of paper on my desk. :-)

    we are literally dropping everything for covid 19, this is absolute lunacy

    one day we will look back and say we endured covid ‘1984’

     

    • #108
  19. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    I saw what looked like a statement by the panel – not shown as a recommendation. The above additional information may explain why they got no positive results – treatment too late to have a strong enough effect.

    Edited to add: The trial described in #87 was conducted in the first or second day of the patients testing positive with symptoms before they would have entered an ICU.

    what was the median age of the patients studied?

    and in what country or state?

    This website has a lot of good data for Michigan. https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173—,00.html

    I believe it is update at 3pm every day. You can find the male/female, age cases and deaths, and it also breaks it down by race.

    Thanks for the link. This has good information. except for one part. Hispanic/Latino have had zero deaths in Michigan???

    I wonder if Michigan is providing sanctuary for illegal aliens from Latin America.

    what is a non-hispanic Latino?

    Me too. I noticed the two charts are first by race, then ethnicity.  I’m behind on knowing my labels.

    • #109
  20. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Just got off a CDC Webinar on clinical treatment of critical Covid 19 patients.

    People are not going to be happy with the following recommendation by the panel.

     

    Standard CDC.  Randomized controlled trial will validate the seat of the pants decisions of doctors sometime in 2022.

    • #110
  21. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    hydroxychloroquine helps your immune system fight the virus.

    Would like to see a URL for that.

    “Helps” could be defined loosely. Penicillin helps your immune system by killing Gram + bacteria.

    • #111
  22. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Just got off a CDC Webinar on clinical treatment of critical Covid 19 patients.

    People are not going to be happy with the following recommendation by the panel.

    you still trust the CDC after they botched the test kits and sat on a 2005 report demonstrating the efficacy of anti malaria drugs against the corona virus known as SARS?

    Did I say I trust the CDC?

    I was reporting what was said in a webinar run by the CDC.

    The clinicians who are currently treating Covid patients made the presentation. You know, actual patients and recent experience.

    They were ICU patients, so they were very ill.

    They tried using antivirals and hydroxychloroquine because there isn’t much else that can be done. They didn’t see any miraculous effects.

    A good reason to start the drugs before the patients are in ICU.

    • #112
  23. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    This website has a lot of good data for Michigan. https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173—,00.html

    I believe it is update at 3pm every day. You can find the male/female, age cases and deaths, and it also breaks it down by race.

    The Michigan governor banned HCQ until today.  Do you mean the doctors were defying her orders ?  Just kidding.

    • #113
  24. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    hydroxychloroquine helps your immune system fight the virus.

    Would like to see a URL for that.

    “Helps” could be defined loosely. Penicillin helps your immune system by killing Gram + bacteria.

     

    I should be more specific. my limited understanding is that when a virus enters your body, your immune system will sometimes go into overdrive.  hydroxychloroquine ‘calms’ your immune system so it can kill the virus or prevent virus cell replication.

     

    • #114
  25. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    hydroxychloroquine helps your immune system fight the virus.

    Would like to see a URL for that.

    “Helps” could be defined loosely. Penicillin helps your immune system by killing Gram + bacteria.

     

    I should be more specific. my limited understanding is that when a virus enters your body, your immune system will sometimes go into overdrive. hydroxychloroquine ‘calms’ your immune system so it can kill the virus or prevent virus cell replication.

     

    I’ve seen it explained this way. Zinc is an element in the treatment. Zinc ions stop the virus from replicating but to do this the zinc ions must find a gateway into the cell. Zinc ions by themselves are not able to penetrate the cell membrane. The hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionophore that enables passage by the zinc across the cell membrane so the zinc ions then stop virus replication.

    • #115
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    This website has a lot of good data for Michigan. https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173—,00.html

    I believe it is update at 3pm every day. You can find the male/female, age cases and deaths, and it also breaks it down by race.

    The Michigan governor banned HCQ until today. Do you mean the doctors were defying her orders ? Just kidding.

    Yes, they were defying/ignoring her orders. I was glad to see that, given that I live in Michigan.

    • #116
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    hydroxychloroquine helps your immune system fight the virus.

    Would like to see a URL for that.

    “Helps” could be defined loosely. Penicillin helps your immune system by killing Gram + bacteria.

     

    I should be more specific. my limited understanding is that when a virus enters your body, your immune system will sometimes go into overdrive. hydroxychloroquine ‘calms’ your immune system so it can kill the virus or prevent virus cell replication.

     

    I’ve seen it explained this way. Zinc is an element in the treatment. Zinc ions stop the virus from replicating but to do this the zinc ions must find a gateway into the cell. Zinc ions by themselves are not able to penetrate the cell membrane. The hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionophore that enables passage by the zinc across the cell membrane so the zinc ions then stop virus replication.

    That sounds like something I read when Michael Kennedy first pointed us to some links about hydroxychloroquine. (Way back in the stone age, when we made our microscopes out of rocks, I took a microbiology class with a bunch of intense pre-med students. And I once was asked by our genetics professor to teach the genetics lab when he was away. So I appreciate learning a bit more detail than one can get from the average news article. But a lot has been learned since those days and I’ve been away from it for a long time. It’s easy for me to get overwhelmed by too much detail, too.)

    • #117
  28. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):
    hydroxychloroquine helps your immune system fight the virus.

    Would like to see a URL for that.

    “Helps” could be defined loosely. Penicillin helps your immune system by killing Gram + bacteria.

     

    I should be more specific. my limited understanding is that when a virus enters your body, your immune system will sometimes go into overdrive. hydroxychloroquine ‘calms’ your immune system so it can kill the virus or prevent virus cell replication.

     

    I’ve seen it explained this way. Zinc is an element in the treatment. Zinc ions stop the virus from replicating but to do this the zinc ions must find a gateway into the cell. Zinc ions by themselves are not able to penetrate the cell membrane. The hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionophore that enables passage by the zinc across the cell membrane so the zinc ions then stop virus replication.

    That sounds like something I read when Michael Kennedy first pointed us to some links about hydroxychloroquine. (Way back in the stone age, when we made our microscopes out of rocks, I took a microbiology class with a bunch of intense pre-med students. And I once was asked by our genetics professor to teach the genetics lab when he was away. So I appreciate learning a bit more detail than one can get from the average news article. But a lot has been learned since those days and I’ve been away from it for a long time. It’s easy for me to get overwhelmed by too much detail, too.)

    Well, here’s some more detail, this is where I got that explanation:

    Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown

     

    • #118
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Well, here’s some more detail, this is where I got that explanation:

    Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown

    That presented some information I hadn’t seen before. Thanks.

    • #119
  30. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Well, here’s some more detail, this is where I got that explanation:

    Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown

    That presented some information I hadn’t seen before. Thanks.

    I still have not seen that anywhere else.

    • #120
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