Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. How Dare You!

 

For a number of years, I have told people that while I might think people on the left are wrong in their beliefs, those same people treat my beliefs as illegitimate; that I have no right to hold different views than they. I believe that it peaked in the current gender wars, mostly because their views became less and less logical under even the gentlest scrutiny.

Now, the virus epidemic gives those people a whole new slew of issues on which, rather than make a cogent argument, it’s considered good form to simply say “how dare you!” That an intellectual adolescent the likes of Greta Thunberg was invited to the UN and literally made that argument foretold how bleak our future looks for any exchange of ideas.

It really hit home this morning when a local (San Antonio) financial columnist was screeching about our Lt. Governor. Dan Patrick had made the case that mitigating some of the quarantine might be worth considering given its effects on the economy. These arguments are the same as the caterwauling about the president’s suggestion about looking forward to Easter as a potential time to start relaxing quarantine rules. Literally nothing about proposing this as a date to think about changing the rules was controversial, yet it’s as if the POTUS proposed slaughtering seniors in their homes.

I wonder if we are past the point of no return, and there is no point in even trying to convince anyone on the other side, of anything.

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor

    I really hate to say this, because I’m an optimist by nature, but I think it will get worse before it gets better. When people are angry and afraid, it’s a dangerous combination. And I see no let up to the situation in the near future. Things will get better, but they will label any change as things getting worse. It’s so discouraging. Thank goodness we do see some people transcending politics and helping out their neighbors, but they are not the Leftist elite.

    • #1
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:05 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  2. Stad Thatcher

    Getting rid of restrictions is inevitable, but it could take time because any politician who suggests it will be seen as “slaughtering seniors in their homes” as @tex929rr said.

    My concern is that if restrictions aren’t dramatically eased soon, you’re going to start seeing mass rebellion by ordinary citizens who decide to go out again. Then we’ll see if any politician authorizes law enforcement to use deadly force to “keep the peace and people safe” when all folks are doing is hanging out like they used to . . . 

    • #2
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:11 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  3. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr

    It’s tough for me to judge things fairly. Our rural county has 6 cases, all travel related, all locked down. We are still responding to fires and medical calls, but in all this time we have only had to treat two patients as potential infections; no one else has had symptoms worth following COVID protocols. The local grocery chain lets first responders in to shop from 6 to 7 AM, and the aisles are pretty full of inventory (they even had big packages of TP this morning, but we have hardly dented our normal Costco household inventory). The biggest annoyance is no sit down restaurant meals. Compared to hard hit places we are just surfing along.

    • #3
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:18 AM PDT
    • 10 likes
  4. RushBabe49 Thatcher

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains. 

    • #4
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:20 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  5. WI Con Member
    WI Con Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I’m worried a horrible precedent has been set on this episode, especially for a virus with what is proving to be a very small morbidity rate (yes, horrible for the unfortunate souls that at risk) but this will become the SOP like hurricane evacuations and the hunkering down prompted by breathless coverage during large winter storms now.

    • #5
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:25 AM PDT
    • 10 likes
  6. OldPhil Coolidge

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains.

    Plus many of them, especially the ones in positions to pontificate the most (media, bureaucrats, and politicians) are the ones whose incomes are not affected one iota by the situation.

    • #6
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:31 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  7. EODmom Coolidge

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains.

    There is also a concerted effort to avoid presenting, much less discussing, any positive aspect of the policies undertaken or locations where the health world is not collapsing (and why that might be) nor any thoughtful public discussion of changes to initial suppositions about the prospect for the disease worldwide. When Dr Birx raised that last point in a press conference she was positioned to be burned at the stake. There is no reason in this – just the immediate goal of ending the Trump presidency and ruining him and the long term goal of ending our Constitutional Republic. That’s the goal. Reason is not part of the process.

    • #7
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:39 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  8. Blondie Thatcher

    I see even poor Dr. Birx is taking heat for being positive and pushing back on the media’s panic reporting. All because she hasn’t said Trump is ridiculous for throwing out Easter as a hopeful date. I refuse to watch the news (even before all this) so my information is second hand. 

    • #8
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:41 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  9. RushBabe49 Thatcher

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains.

    Plus many of them, especially the ones in positions to pontificate the most (media, bureaucrats, and politicians) are the ones whose incomes are not affected one iota by the situation.

    Of those three groups, only one may be affected by the situation. Most media are still private-sector outfits, and their ranks have been considerably thinned in the past few years. CNN has had more than one round of layoffs, as have most major newspapers. Of course, politicians and bureaucrats may get sick, but they have no risk of layoff. 

    • #9
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:41 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  10. Jon1979 Lincoln

    Texas isn’t quite like California, in terms of having the vast majority of its population bunched up along a 60-miles wide sliver of coastline stretching from San Diego to the northern San Francisco suburbs. But the biggest of its main urban centers are part of the ‘Texas Triangle’ linked by Interstate 10, Interstate 35 and Interstate 45, and many of the more liberal people there have developed the attitude that the Triangle is really the only area of the state that’s important, and that everything within the state should be tailored to meet the needs of the Triangle.

    Normally fights like that are more centered on things like state infrastructure spending, but with the COVID-19 situation, you’ve seen then demand a one-size-fits-all declaration by Gov. Abbott for the state that’s 800-plus miles from its eastern to western ends and 800-plus miles from its northern to southern ends. Abbott., like Trump, has talked about a strategic return to normal in the state, for areas based on the infection rates from COVID-19, and the population density.

    So what’s needed for San Antonio and Bexar County might not be needed, say, in Loving County, the least-populated in the country (but one of the biggest oil and gas-producing counties in the nation). But that’s not how some in the Triangle think, in part because they may live in Texas, but they really have no conception of how empty so much of the state is, despite being the second most populated state in the nation (and the same’s true with the eastern half of California — San Bernardino’s western edges are teeming with people, but the eastern part of that county contains some of the most isolated and desolate places in the entire nation).

    • #10
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:43 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  11. Weeping Member

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    It’s tough for me to judge things fairly. Our rural county has 6 cases, all travel related, all locked down. We are still responding to fires and medical calls, but in all this time we have only had to treat two patients as potential infections; no one else has had symptoms worth following COVID protocols. The local grocery chain lets first responders in to shop from 6 to 7 AM, and the aisles are pretty full of inventory (they even had big packages of TP this morning, but we have hardly dented our normal Costco household inventory). The biggest annoyance is no sit down restaurant meals. Compared to hard hit places we are just surfing along.

    According to the latest update that arrived in my inbox this morning, North Texas (which consists of several counties) has 836 confirmed cases and 13 deaths. My county has 439 of those, but it also contains the city of Dallas itself. The state of Texas has 2,498 confirmed cases and 31 deaths. The estimated number of people living in the state? Around 30 million.

    Edited because I originally said the email didn’t break the numbers down by county. That’s what I get for not looking at the entire email before I posted. A few lines after the overall numbers, the numbers for North Texas counties were broken down by county. Sigh.

    • #11
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:22 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  12. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Texas isn’t quite like California, in terms of having the vast majority of its population bunched up along a 60-miles wide sliver of coastline stretching from San Diego to the northern San Francisco suburbs. But the biggest of its main urban centers are part of the ‘Texas Triangle’ linked by Interstate 10, Interstate 35 and Interstate 45, and many of the more liberal people there have developed the attitude that the Triangle is really the only area of the state that’s important, and that everything within the state should be tailored to meet the needs of the Triangle.

    Normally fights like that are more centered on things like state infrastructure spending, but with the COVID-19 situation, you’ve seen then demand a one-size-fits-all declaration by Gov. Abbott for the state that’s 800-plus miles from its eastern to western ends and 800-plus miles from its northern to southern ends. Abbott., like Trump, has talked about a strategic return to normal in the state, for areas based on the infection rates from COVID-19, and the population density.

    So what’s needed for San Antonio and Bexar County might not be needed, say, in Loving County, the least-populated in the country (but one of the biggest oil and gas-producing counties in the nation). But that’s not how some in the Triangle think, in part because they may live in Texas, but they really have no conception of how empty so much of the state is, despite being the second most populated state in the nation (and the same’s true with the eastern half of California — San Bernardino’s western edges are teeming with people, but the eastern part of that county contains some of the most isolated and desolate places in the entire nation).

    There are locals complaining on social media that the county judge specified less stringent restrictions for unincorporated parts (most of the county) than the mayor of the county seat. Guess where they moved here from.

    • #12
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:26 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  13. Full Size Tabby Member

    The not-nice part of me would engage the commentator in kind with, “Why do you favor killing people? You know the quarantine will kill people through increased suicides, drug and alcohol overdoses, and domestic violence.”

    • #13
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:29 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  14. Full Size Tabby Member

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains.

    They also for some reason seem to see everything as absolutes or black-and-white, and fail to see that every decision is a trade-off of competing interests. 

    • #14
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:33 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  15. Al Sparks Thatcher

    Alaska is now officially locked down.

    Yet, our medium age is lower than the U.S. medium, and we have a low population density.

    The image or stereotype of Alaska is of a hearty population ready to deal with the hazards of the great outdoors.

    But like the rest of the U.S. we’re hunkered down. The governor’s order also prohibits travel between towns with the usual exceptions.

    Like many politicians worldwide was reluctant to impose this, but the medical community, mostly emergency department docs insisted. Then the state legislators started hectoring him, and he finally caved.

    The number of infections keeps rising here, with one death, but so far, I have not received reports or otherwise heard of hospitals inundated.

    I’m 63 and in good health. I’m not fearful should I get infected.

    Bring it on. If I get the resultant antibodies, I’m no longer a risk to the vulnerable.

    • #15
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:33 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  16. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    Tex929rr: I wonder if we are past the point of no return, and there is no point in even trying to convince anyone on the other side, of anything.

    My in-law shared a commentary piece today about how Trump was favor “red” states over “blue” states in sending out medical supplies. It said that Republicans were trying to kill off Democrats. Leftists love that kind of propaganda. They really *want* to believe it and it is very hard to talk sense into someone that wants to believe something else.

    • #16
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:52 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  17. Full Size Tabby Member

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    Tex929rr: I wonder if we are past the point of no return, and there is no point in even trying to convince anyone on the other side, of anything.

    My in-law shared a commentary piece today about how Trump was favor “red” states over “blue” states in sending out medical supplies. It said that Republicans were trying to kill off Democrats. Leftists love that kind of propaganda. They really *want* to believe it and it is very hard to talk sense into someone that wants to believe something else.

    More of the evil part of me would note that such commentary is another example of “projecting” – leftists say that because it’s what they would do if the roles were reversed. 

    • #17
    • March 29, 2020, at 11:01 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  18. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    WI Con (View Comment):

    I’m worried a horrible precedent has been set on this episode, especially for a virus with what is proving to be a very small morbidity rate (yes, horrible for the unfortunate souls that at risk) but this will become the SOP like hurricane evacuations and the hunkering down prompted by breathless coverage during large winter storms now.

    Unless there’s a Democrat in charge. Then even the most virulent hemorrhagic fever barely needs mentioning. It will only count if someone important gets it. Like a Democrat.

    • #18
    • March 29, 2020, at 5:10 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  19. James Gawron Thatcher
    James Gawron Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Tex,

    She really is the symbol of everything that’s wrong. A mentally ill screeching child, yells insults about a problem which she hasn’t the slightest understanding of. The bizarre sycophant left worships her like some sort of little pagan demigd. A corrupt world currency manipulator pays to have her speak her jibberish in front of the UN.

    Yes, the world is so bent out of shape that only Gd proper could put it right. Prayer is in order.

    Regards,

    Jim

     

    • #19
    • March 29, 2020, at 6:32 PM PDT
    • 7 likes
  20. tigerlily Member

    It’s much easier to deem someone’s position or belief on an issue as beyond the pale than it is to argue or debate them on that issue. In the last 15 or so years, maybe longer, this has became the default position of debate and argument for the Left. I think this has occurred for two reasons – 1) they (the Left, the Dems) have continued to move further and further to the left on a variety of issues so, as you point out, a number of the positions they hold are untenable given any pushback, and 2) the education system at the university and now at lower grades has become nothing more than political indoctrination which teaches this form of group think.

    • #20
    • March 29, 2020, at 6:44 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  21. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    There may be at least small signs of hope. Prager Univ. has had over a billion views. Also, you may have seen or heard of the YT video by life-long Dem. Dr. Karlyn Borysenko, denouncing the Dems for putting their wish list ahead of supporting an economic stimulus- ‘You win, Why I’ll be voting for Donald Trump in November.’.She has another video describing how to cure people of TDS which I haven’t seen yet, but promises to be good- ‘What its like to have Trump Derangement Syndrome.’

    • #21
    • March 29, 2020, at 8:30 PM PDT
    • 1 like
    • This comment has been edited.
  22. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains.

    They also for some reason seem to see everything as absolutes or black-and-white, and fail to see that every decision is a trade-off of competing interests.

    Some people really like being told what to do, but they can only enjoy it if they think it applies to everyone – otherwise they start to suspect that they are weak and the only way to avoid that is to have someone else discipline the non-compliant on their behalf – because that’s what makes betas feel strong.

    • #22
    • March 29, 2020, at 10:27 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  23. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I have had a friend die of this. I have seen another, young man, on a ventilator. I have two staff with it. 

    This is not the flu. 

    My site is open because we are healthcare. We are not on the front lines fighting this, but we are at risk. I’d love to be able to shelter at home and not leave. So would my staff.

    My wife works in essential services for the city. 

    I am grateful we both still have an income. 

     

    • #23
    • March 30, 2020, at 2:57 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  24. Lois Lane Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I have had a friend die of this. I have seen another, young man, on a ventilator. I have two staff with it.

    This is not the flu.

    My site is open because we are healthcare. We are not on the front lines fighting this, but we are at risk. I’d love to be able to shelter at home and not leave. So would my staff.

    My wife works in essential services for the city.

    I am grateful we both still have an income.

     

    I totally hear that, @bryangstephens. I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. I also get that this is not the flu. However, I do think that the whole situation is complicated and getting more dire in other areas of life.

    What do I mean?

    I just wrote about a very real, actually counted, not at all abstract spike in suicides in the county where I am currently hunkered down, and that screams for attention, too. I am certain this is not just a phenomenon in one county in Tennessee.

    My father is at one of the largest cancer hospitals in the United States, and he says that the hotel where they stay on-site is half empty with no cleaning staff. The managers are now cleaning the rooms. (That’s a Marriott, by the way.) Which makes me think… really? Where are the other cancer patients?

    So I don’t know the right thing to do here. I don’t even pretend to know. 

    But I do know that getting Covid is not the only way one can die, and the op-ed writer is correct: Dan Patrick didn’t say anything crazy when giving his opinion about changing the approach in Texas. He also didn’t dismiss the serious nature of the virus.

    We need more dialogue about all of this. Your voice is important because you are having a much different experience than I am. My world is full of people who are losing their livelihoods.

    • #24
    • March 30, 2020, at 4:34 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  25. Jon1979 Lincoln

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    But I do know that getting Covid is not the only way one can die, and the op-ed writer is correct: Dan Patrick didn’t say anything crazy when giving his opinion about changing the approach in Texas. He also didn’t dismiss the serious nature of the virus.

    We need more dialogue about all of this. Your voice is important because you are having a much different experience than I am. My world is full of people who are losing their livelihoods.

    Brit Hume was more precise with his comment than Patrick was, but still got attacked from people who at least for now don’t want to talk about the freedom vs. security decision that society is going to have to make sooner or later. You don’t want to return things to normal in areas, especially high-population ones, where the medical services get overwhelmed, but going in the other direction sometime in the near future, there’s going to have to be a decision on how many COVID-19 deaths society is willing to tolerate, in the same way society has always tolerated a certain number of flu virus deaths each winter.

    If the answer on COVID-19 is ‘zero’, then we’re in for a lockdown at the very least until a vaccine is found. And you could tell be the reaction to Sunday’s announcement by Trump that the current federal guidelines will stay in place for another five weeks that people already are getting restless about returning to their jobs and/or their normal lifestyles. As that grows, the fight between people valuing security and those wanting freedom is only going to get bigger.

     

    • #25
    • March 30, 2020, at 5:36 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  26. Stad Thatcher

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    the biggest of its main urban centers are part of the ‘Texas Triangle’ linked by Interstate 10, Interstate 35 and Interstate 45

    Is that actually what Texans call it? The nickname for the place I live in is the CSRA – Central Savannah River Area. Just curious . . .

    • #26
    • March 30, 2020, at 6:10 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. Henry Castaigne Member

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):
    RushBabe49

    May I reiterate once again that Leftists cannot be convinced by any argument whatsoever, since they do not think, they feel. They do not listen to reason, since they “reason” with their guts, not their brains. 

    Do many conservatives use reason though? My impression is that humanity is incurably superstitious, religious and anti-capitalist. Christianity is a good whether True or not because it redirects the incessant human drive towards religion in a mostly positive way. 

    • #27
    • March 30, 2020, at 6:53 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  28. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Do many conservatives use reason though? My impression is that humanity is incurably superstitious, religious and anti-capitalist.

    This is the modernist view of religion and human anthropology. I was just reading about the “ism” of immanentism this morning:

    Having disposed of natural theology, Modernism then proposes immanentism to explain what religious experience is supposedly all about. Human beings, the Modernists argue, are invested with a “religious sense” which wells up out of the unconscious and creates in us a need for the divine. It is in response to this need that we positively respond to ideas about the reality and nature of God which, as it happens, are comfortably conformable to our feelings. What this comes down to, in practical terms, is that the “God” to which one gives one’s allegiance is but a fiction of one’s own devising, a pseudo-being having its source nowhere else but in the demands of deep-set emotions. Here Modernism can be said to be reflecting the thought of the nineteenth century atheistic philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach, who argued that what we call God is no more than the imagined product of human longings and wishes.

    The Church rejects this, of course, and finds no conflict between faith and reason, as the “enlightenment” types have been assiduously propagandizing for the last several centuries.

    St. Pius X identified two major parts of Modernism; one was agnosticism, the other was immanentism. By agnosticism Modernism denies that man is capable of gaining a reasoned knowledge of God. Thus, with a stroke, it effectively does away with natural theology, that philosophic discipline whose principal task is to show that we can arrive at a knowledge of the existence of God through natural reason. Now, that such is possible is actually a matter of faith for Catholics, . . .

    “Faith” being the act of trusting your God-given reasoning abilities to discern the truth about God through His revelation, no matter how you feel about it. 

    It is through faith (which includes reason) we can overcome those fallen desires leading to superstition and the fear of freedom at the cost of security. When we’re “graced” with such fidelity to the truth and courage to do what is right, even at the cost of our livelihoods and/or lives, it’s what is recognized as Christian virtue. We’ve seen models of it time and again, especially in the American founding. 

    • #28
    • March 30, 2020, at 7:35 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  29. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):
    So I don’t know the right thing to do here. I don’t even pretend to know. 

    Then why carp?

    I see a lot of complaints that what Trumpmis doing is wrong, but you guysndont have the information he does. Yet you know better.

     

    • #29
    • March 30, 2020, at 4:25 PM PDT
    • Like
  30. Weeping Member

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):
    So I don’t know the right thing to do here. I don’t even pretend to know.

    Then why carp?

    I see a lot of complaints that what Trumpmis doing is wrong, but you guysndont have the information he does. Yet you know better.

    No, but we can see the numbers of confirmed cases and deaths that are being reported. And so far, as far as I can tell, they don’t even come close to meeting the predictions. As more people lose their jobs like my husband did this morning and face the fact that they may not be able to feed their families in a few weeks – for some, maybe even days – the “noise” generated by that difference is only going to become louder and louder and more and more discordant. So get used to the sound of complaining. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

     

    • #30
    • March 30, 2020, at 6:11 PM PDT
    • 3 likes