Sanity Amidst the Chaos

 

I have seen enough graphs, data, and statistics on Ricochet to last me a lifetime. Some of the information is helpful, some of it is confusing, some of it is biased. I had decided to just watch and listen to the discussions and come from a place of “not knowing,” to allow myself to take it all in and eventually draw my own conclusions. Well, eventually has arrived, in the form of my complaints and that ol’ go-to method, common sense.

First, I’m getting upset at the number of personal attacks in the conversations. People are assuming the worst of intentions, becoming defensive and aggressive. My advice (for what it’s worth):

Knock it off.

Even when people get the information wrong, please just disagree and re-state your point. Sarcasm and ad hominem attacks are not only unhelpful, but they are destructive to everyone: to those arguing and those of us who are seeking good information.

Second, I think we are all yielding to the stress of anxiety about the situation. Please take responsibility for your reactions, to the information and to others’ comments, and act like mature human beings. I’m anxious, too, but we should be supporting each other, not trying to take others down.

Third, I’ve decided to take a position on what the government is doing and I’m not going to offer graphs and charts. (I’ll look to others to provide that information.) Here’s what I’ve decided:

  • My husband and I are seniors. I’m healthy, he’s compromised. But we are perfectly capable of taking care of ourselves. We will stay home, except when we need groceries, and we will shop for groceries without your help. It is risky, but so is crossing the street.
  • We are all going to die someday. Nobody knows when his or her date to exit the planet will arrive. You can avoid recognizing that truth, but it will do you no good.
  • As Holman Jenkins said in the WSJ today regarding the focus of our attention: “Wouldn’t it make more sense to pour resources into isolating the vulnerable rather than isolating everyone?” Then we can focus on getting the economy back on-line.

I welcome other common-sense suggestions. You can throw out more data, but I’m not very interested. I’m interested in supporting each other. For those of you who know millennials or have millennial family members who are acting like teenagers, tell them to grow up.

Let’s all grow up.

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  1. ShaunaHunt Inactive
    ShaunaHunt
    @ShaunaHunt

    We had a little distraction from COVID-19 this morning here in Utah. We’ve been able to laugh about it. Faith and a little humor is essential to survival! Go hug someone. If the sun is shining, get outside. 

    (The migraine is eating me alive today, but I have been in contact with the people I love! It has made a huge difference.)

    • #61
  2. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Stad (View Comment):
    This may be a hard thing to say, but will the economic damage be worth the deaths we prevent? The left often uses the “if it will prevent one death” argument to further the argument for their policies.

    Yeah and we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan for a mere 3000 deaths either. Not to mention shut down air travel for 3 days.

    \sarc off

    • #62
  3. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):
    As you say, quarantine–including social distancing–works in bringing down the number of new cases. That bends the curve down and keeps the serious cases from overwhelming the health care system. That saves lives. Fortunately the disease is mostly not serious–not much worse than a very bad flu. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be taken seriously, because it is contagious before symptoms manifest. The short term pain of businesses being shut down will be short term and recoverable if the epidemic curve can be bent down and panic allayed.

    Amen.

    The reason why it works is that it limits the opportunities for infection to occur.

    It breaks the quantities of the human transmission vector.

    Breaks the vectors.

    Now breathe and relax and enjoy the staycation.

    Easier said than done when your livelihood looks like it might be on the line.

    • #63
  4. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Instugator (View Comment):
    Yeah and we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan for a mere 3000 deaths either

    True.

    • #64
  5. AnnieMac Inactive
    AnnieMac
    @AnnieMac

    ShaunaHunt (View Comment):

    We had a little distraction from COVID-19 this morning here in Utah. We’ve been able to laugh about it. Faith and a little humor is essential to survival! Go hug someone. If the sun is shining, get outside.

    (The migraine is eating me alive today, but I have been in contact with the people I love! It has made a huge difference.)

    From one migraineur to another, I hope you feel better very soon Shauna!  Nothing like a quake and a migraine in the same day ;-)

    • #65
  6. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    Yeah and we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan for a mere 3000 deaths either

    True.

    Don’t forget Pearl Harbor, just 2403 people.

    • #66
  7. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    I kind of skimmed comments but I do avoid TV news.  Facebook is OK for in keeping in touch with family. My wife and I are high risk, me through age and pulmonary fibrosis, my wife through an immunodeficiency condition. Ironically, she also has rheumatoid arthritis and has been taking Plaquenil for it, which happens to be protective for the coronavirus.  We are not going out much  but we did go to a nice dinner party with friends last night.  I have never gotten on Twitter and do not miss it for a microsecond.  I am an MD and she is an RN and former nurse practitioner so we are informed. I think the panic about respirators is way overblown and I expect the drugs to mitigate much of this thing.

    The testing is going to be useful to give a denominator for the death rate, which I expect to end up at less than 1%.  Italy and Spain are in big trouble, probably through age and population density.  The big cities, like those the left has been trying to force us into for 25 years, are probably going to be relative hot spots. Fortunately, we live in Arizona which has a wise governor with a history of  business success like Trump.

    • #67
  8. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Bad arguments made from ignorance are not as dangerous as Chairman Xi, but they spread faster than nCov.

    The short term pain of businesses being shut down will be short term and recoverable if the epidemic curve can be bent down and panic allayed.

    I’ll just highlight the two sentences above, and point out that you’re an epidemiologist, not an economist.

     

    • #68
  9. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Instugator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    Yeah and we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan for a mere 3000 deaths either

    True.

    Don’t forget Pearl Harbor, just 2403 people.

    We shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan after Pearl Harbor, either.

    • #69
  10. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Bad arguments made from ignorance are not as dangerous as Chairman Xi, but they spread faster than nCov.

    The short term pain of businesses being shut down will be short term and recoverable if the epidemic curve can be bent down and panic allayed.

    I’ll just highlight the two sentences above, and point out that you’re an epidemiologist, not an economist.

     

    I didn’t make the first statement; don’t attribute it to me.  As to the rest, suit yourself.  Feel free to panic.  It will be VERY helpful.

    • #70
  11. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Instugator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    Yeah and we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan for a mere 3000 deaths either

    True.

    Don’t forget Pearl Harbor, just 2403 people.

    The comparison isn’t valid.  Compare Afghan deaths with all those in WW2.  Pearl Harbor should be compared with 9/11, both pre-war …

    • #71
  12. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Bad arguments made from ignorance are not as dangerous as Chairman Xi, but they spread faster than nCov.

    The short term pain of businesses being shut down will be short term and recoverable if the epidemic curve can be bent down and panic allayed.

    I’ll just highlight the two sentences above, and point out that you’re an epidemiologist, not an economist.

     

    I didn’t make the first statement; don’t attribute it to me. As to the rest, suit yourself. Feel free to panic. It will be VERY helpful.

    It was the very last sentence of the post and appeared directly above where  you replied “I really can’t give this enough “likes.” Literally, I really can’t, since we only get one. This is SO spot on. ”

    or do “bad arguments made from ignorance” only apply to epidemiology and not to economics?

    • #72
  13. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Bad arguments made from ignorance are not as dangerous as Chairman Xi, but they spread faster than nCov.

    The short term pain of businesses being shut down will be short term and recoverable if the epidemic curve can be bent down and panic allayed.

    I’ll just highlight the two sentences above, and point out that you’re an epidemiologist, not an economist.

     

    I didn’t make the first statement; don’t attribute it to me. As to the rest, suit yourself. Feel free to panic. It will be VERY helpful.

    It was the very last sentence of the post and appeared directly above where you replied “I really can’t give this enough “likes.” Literally, I really can’t, since we only get one. This is SO spot on. ”

    or do “bad arguments made from ignorance” only apply to epidemiology and not to economics?

    It still wasn’t my statement, though I do admit the crime of agreeing with the person who made it.  What’s your excuse?

    • #73
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Misthiocracy ingeniously (View Comment):
    There are plenty of medical experts out there who are not employed by governments who are arguing that total shutdown of the economy is a questionable strategy.

    And what is THEIR responsibility and THEIR liability if THEY are wrong?  Do they even lose their jobs, whatever they might be?  Unlikely.

    • #74
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stad (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Negative Infl… (View Comment):
    It seems to have become some kind contest who see who can imagine the worst of worst-case scenarios.

    There is only one worst-case scenario: the Democrat nominee wins the Presidency in 2020 . . .

    That probably is the one truly worst-case scenario.

    It seems to me that people who know they can’t handle these discussions should… well… self-isolate.  Rather than seemingly insist that everyone else “calm down.”  That sounds a bit snowflake-y to me.

    Someone long ago once put it, “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.”

    And so forth.

    That doesn’t mean “leave Ricochet” but for the people who know they aren’t up to it, stop clicking on the coronavirus threads.

    And once – hopefully soon – things quiet down, remember to not just sit at home with your TP and bottled water etc.  Go out and support those businesses that you want to recover!  As I’ve posted elsewhere, that’s what I’m going to do.

    • #75
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Bad arguments made from ignorance are not as dangerous as Chairman Xi, but they spread faster than nCov.

    The short term pain of businesses being shut down will be short term and recoverable if the epidemic curve can be bent down and panic allayed.

    I’ll just highlight the two sentences above, and point out that you’re an epidemiologist, not an economist.

    She didn’t say that it wouldn’t be pain, just that it would be short-term and so presumably recoverable, if the epidemic curve can be bent down, which IS within epidemiology.

    • #76
  17. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Stad (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):
    Yeah and we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan for a mere 3000 deaths either

    True.

    Don’t forget Pearl Harbor, just 2403 people.

    The comparison isn’t valid. Compare Afghan deaths with all those in WW2. Pearl Harbor should be compared with 9/11, both pre-war …

    We aren’t comparing post war deaths, just those that give resolve to go to war (or face a national emergency of any sort – you know, one that causes one to have to tighten their belts and dig in for the long haul – in this case 15 days).

    Pearl Harbor – 2403

    9/11 – less than 4k.

    • #77
  18. Archibald Campbell Member
    Archibald Campbell
    @ArchieCampbell

    I’ll have to go read what public health measures were made during the Spanish Flu of 1918. It’d surprise me if Wilson didn’t try to put all of the journos he didn’t like (most of them, sounds like), in with the worst flu cases.  We can at least be glad that he isn’t president now. (Though, were he in his current state, at least he wouldn’t get in the way much.)

    I am fortunate in that I can work from home. And I’m concerned about this, but we’re also a people who’ve faced down some pretty serious things in our history, and overcome them. Of particular concern to me, as others have noted are civil liberties, and watching our elected officials like a hawk during and after this, to make sure the temporary measures stay temporary, and try to prevent or undo the products of their worst instincts.  Last but not least I really feel for all of the people whose work and businesses are being disrupted, and lament that a good portion of it will be permanent. If ever there’s a time to spend from the public fisc to help folks, it’s now.

    In terms of the expense of handling this, I almost wish that it’s very high, so as to finally force a lot more Americans to care about budget deficits and the debt. This should start to squeeze aside other spending that the pie-eyed idealists of the political class want. I say almost because I doubt that will happen, but we’re going to have to have a financial reckoning sometime, and I’d rather have it sooner rather than later. 

    In any event, I’m hunkering down and waiting for this to end. At least we’re not being bombed by the Nazis every night.

    • #78
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Archibald Campbell (View Comment):

    I’ll have to go read what public health measures were made during the Spanish Flu of 1918. It’d surprise me if Wilson didn’t try to put all of the journos he didn’t like (most of them, sounds like), in with the worst flu cases. We can at least be glad that he isn’t president now. (Though, were he in his current state, at least he wouldn’t get in the way much.)

    I am fortunate in that I can work from home. And I’m concerned about this, but we’re also a people who’ve faced down some pretty serious things in our history, and overcome them. Of particular concern to me, as others have noted are civil liberties, and watching our elected officials like a hawk during and after this, to make sure the temporary measures stay temporary, and try to prevent or undo the products of their worst instincts. Last but not least I really feel for all of the people whose work and businesses are being disrupted, and lament that a good portion of it will be permanent. If ever there’s a time to spend from the public fisc to help folks, it’s now.

    In terms of the expense of handling this, I almost wish that it’s very high, so as to finally force a lot more Americans to care about budget deficits and the debt. This should start to squeeze aside other spending that the pie-eyed idealists of the political class want. I say almost because I doubt that will happen, but we’re going to have to have a financial reckoning sometime, and I’d rather have it sooner rather than later.

    In any event, I’m hunkering down and waiting for this to end. At least we’re not being bombed by the Nazis every night.

    My sentiments are much like yours, @archiecampbell. I am fortunate as a retired person who doesn’t have to worry about my job. I’m also concerned about the fiscal aspects and am pessimistic about having anything fiscal rolled back. But I bolded your last sentences. We can try to put it all in perspective. Thanks.

    • #79
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    I hope nobody is going to claim that what we’re doing now is crazy because they didn’t do that kind of thing back in 1918.  When, I should point out, they knew a lot less about… well, EVERYTHING!… than is known now.

    • #80
  21. Archibald Campbell Member
    Archibald Campbell
    @ArchieCampbell

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I hope nobody is going to claim that what we’re doing now is crazy because they didn’t do that kind of thing back in 1918. When, I should point out, they knew a lot less about… well, EVERYTHING!… than is known now.

    I’m certainly not claiming that. With the state of medical science today 1918 may as well have been the Middle Ages comparatively. My curiosity about Wilson is about the political side of it back then, as Wilson wasn’t shy about trying to jail people critical of his administration. And he was often successful at that.

    • #81
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