Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Will the Truth Make Any Difference?

 

For many months I have been trying to be patient, objective and optimistic about the future of our country. I’ve tried to collect as much information as I can to balance the outrageous actions of the FBI and DOJ over the last three years with the efforts that are in progress to get to the truth. The latest report of the FISC appointing David Kris to review the FBI’s changes to their surveillance process reflects the near impossibility of the truth making any difference.

We have seen every level of government, House representatives and department heads complicit in one of the most devastating abuses of power ever seen in government. We also know that John Durham may be our last hope to identify the illegal and unethical activities that have dominated the attacks against the office of the President. But will the truth make any difference?

I ask this question after reading Unsk’s informative post about the David Kris appointment. After a detailed report from IG Horowitz exposing the violations, abuses, and possibly illegal actions related to FISC applications, the FISC selected a man who was at the very least connected to these processes. Mollie Hemingway explains the Court’s pathetic reasoning:

The court ‘finds it appropriate to appoint David S. Kris, Esq., to serve as amicus curiae to assist the Court in assessing the government’s response to’ a Dec. 17, 2019, order to ‘inform the Court . . . of what it has done, and plans to do, to ensure that the statement of facts in each FBI application accurately and completely reflects information possessed by the FBI that is material to any issue presented by the application.’’

The pick was justified on the grounds that he is one of the few officials with FISA experience. But Kris has repeatedly shown himself to be a reflexive defender of the FBI, even as evidence mounted of its malfeasance. . .

Kris was one of the many Washington insiders who either fell for or pretended to fall for the validity of the Russia collusion hoax.

There is an overwhelming number of examples of Kris’ partisan views. Yet the FISC believes that Kris is the best person to evaluate objectively the FBI’s response.


The FISC decision epitomizes for me the waste of government efforts to find its way through these disastrous and disgraceful activities and resolve them:

  • How could the FISC have been so careless in signing off on the FISA applications in the first place?
  • How could they not recognize years ago the abuse that was taking place right under their noses?
  • How could they expect the FBI to generate new criteria for submissions after the widespread abuses of their system?
  • How could the FISC choose a person, who has made it clear that he despises the President, as the official who should review the FBI submissions?

John Durham may find evidence to incriminate people from all over the federal government. Then what? Will people, at the very least, be fired? Will their reputations be ruined, will they be sent to jail, or will we simply shake our heads in disbelief and move on?

Will the truth make any difference?

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    I want to make the point, too, that we can change all the rules, slap some hands and even try to humiliate some government officials. But the climate already exists that feeds the belief that people can do whatever they want if they think they are right. They have “justice” on their side. So truth, ethics, laws are simply inconvenient, and people will do what they must–in their own jaded views.

    • #1
    • January 13, 2020, at 6:46 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  2. Jon1979 Lincoln

    It’s going to depend on the outcome of the election if anything remotely gets done. Even if Durham comes back in the spring with any formal allegations or grand jury indictments, there’s no way anything gets done before November — the accused and their lawyers would be crazy to take a plea deal until they know the election results, because they know the entire thing gets scuttled if the Democrats win. A Trump victory, on the other hand, would keep the status quo in place until 1/20/25, and then you might at least get some of the lower level people to do deals to save their own hides.

    • #2
    • January 13, 2020, at 7:09 AM PST
    • 9 likes
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    It’s going to depend on the outcome of the election if anything remotely gets done. Even if Durham comes back in the spring with any formal allegations or grand jury indictments, there’s no way anything gets done before November — the accused and their lawyers would be crazy to take a plea deal until they know the election results, because they know the entire thing gets scuttled if the Democrats win. A Trump victory, on the other hand, would keep the status quo in place until 1/20/25, and then you might at least get some of the lower level people to do deals to save their own hides.

    Good points, but will the way business is done change at any point? Or will people continue to ignore the rules, even if others are penalized?

    • #3
    • January 13, 2020, at 7:20 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  4. Bob Thompson Member

    “David Kris led the National Security Division (NSD) with great distinction through a period when the department confronted a number of threats to the nation’s security, and there is no doubt that his tireless work helped keep the American people safe,” said Attorney General Eric Holder. “I will miss his leadership.”

    I have worked in financial and national security functions and have never seen those having had responsibility for developing and operating those functions be then tasked to audit or examine for malicious wrongdoing.

    • #4
    • January 13, 2020, at 7:21 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  5. Jon1979 Lincoln

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    It’s going to depend on the outcome of the election if anything remotely gets done. Even if Durham comes back in the spring with any formal allegations or grand jury indictments, there’s no way anything gets done before November — the accused and their lawyers would be crazy to take a plea deal until they know the election results, because they know the entire thing gets scuttled if the Democrats win. A Trump victory, on the other hand, would keep the status quo in place until 1/20/25, and then you might at least get some of the lower level people to do deals to save their own hides.

    Good points, but will the way business is done change at any point? Or will people continue to ignore the rules, even if others are penalized?

    The Swamp’s going to want to go back to being The Swamp, whether it’s 2021 or 2025. But the longer they can’t get someone back into the White House who doesn’t upset the Beltway apple cart, the more they’ll at the very least have to make adjustments to the new reality (spreading out some of the second-level cabinet positions across the country would go a long way towards reducing the power of The Swamp, though. In terms of hive-mind group-think and collective ego, the bureaucrats have come to believe that since they live and work in the Washington, D.C., area, they deserve the perks and privileges of the ruling class. That level of hubris was in place among some of the Beltway lifers even when I lived in D.C. in the early 1980s).

    • #5
    • January 13, 2020, at 7:36 AM PST
    • 9 likes
  6. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    “Truth” is what the elites want it to be. The NSD is totally corrupt and needs to be shut down. What are all these weird agencies that have so much power over elected officials?!?

    • #6
    • January 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  7. Bob Thompson Member

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    It’s going to depend on the outcome of the election if anything remotely gets done. Even if Durham comes back in the spring with any formal allegations or grand jury indictments, there’s no way anything gets done before November — the accused and their lawyers would be crazy to take a plea deal until they know the election results, because they know the entire thing gets scuttled if the Democrats win. A Trump victory, on the other hand, would keep the status quo in place until 1/20/25, and then you might at least get some of the lower level people to do deals to save their own hides.

    Good points, but will the way business is done change at any point? Or will people continue to ignore the rules, even if others are penalized?

    The Swamp’s going to want to go back to being The Swamp, whether it’s 2021 or 2025. But the longer they can’t get someone back into the White House who doesn’t upset the Beltway apple cart, the more they’ll at the very least have to make adjustments to the new reality (spreading out some of the second-level cabinet positions across the country would go a long way towards reducing the power of The Swamp, though. In terms of hive-mind group-think and collective ego, the bureaucrats have come to believe that since they live and work in the Washington, D.C., area, they deserve the perks and privileges of the ruling class. That level of hubris was in place among some of the Beltway lifers even when I lived in D.C. in the early 1980s).

    This is a valid snapshot of where we are and the immediate prospects. Some minimal Swamp reduction effects can be accomplished by executive actions of the President. Significant reductions can be effected through legislation reducing funding, eliminating unneeded federal agencies, and the movement of functions away from Washington that then might be eliminated. None of this is likely if an establishment candidate becomes POTUS.

    • #7
    • January 13, 2020, at 8:58 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  8. Rodin Member

    I am a discouraged optimist. As conservatives we recognize the human condition for what it is. Many look to the afterlife as the hope for correction. Progressives use the promise of human betterment to actually achieve enrichment of the few and the impoverishment of the many. So it is that we rightly see that government is more easily contained and restrained than it is corrected. The progressives having loosed the restraints have given us a hard task to perform, which may not be achievable at all. Truth matters, but may not make a difference — at least on a timescale useful to us currently. A lot of Russians and Germans and Chinese and Cambodians came to know the truth contemporaneously without affect in avoiding their personal destruction. Action should be guided by truth, but truth without action is powerless.

    • #8
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:02 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  9. Bob Thompson Member

    Rodin (View Comment):

    I am a discouraged optimist. As conservatives we recognize the human condition for what it is. Many look to the afterlife as the hope for correction. Progressives use the promise of human betterment to actually achieve enrichment of the few and the impoverishment of the many. So it is that we rightly see that government is more easily contained and restrained than it is corrected. The progressives having loosed the restraints have given us a hard task to perform, which may not be achievable at all. Truth matters, but may not make a difference — at least on a timescale useful to us currently. A lot of Russians and Germans and Chinese and Cambodians came to know the truth contemporaneously without affect in avoiding their personal destruction. Action should be guided by truth, but truth without action is powerless.

    This is critical presently in Iran. I’ve heard quotes of some chanting ‘death to the clerics’ and I’ve heard of hundreds being killed by those in power. It’s certain the the Revolutionary Guard and other enforcement groups within the Iran infrastructure can create havoc for those who seek the truth and change. Will there be a time for official action from other countries beyond that of those cooperating on economic sanctions already? What might this look like?

    • #9
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:25 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  10. Stina Member

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I want to make the point, too, that we can change all the rules, slap some hands and even try to humiliate some government officials. But the climate already exists that feeds the belief that people can do whatever they want if they think they are right. They have “justice” on their side. So truth, ethics, laws are simply inconvenient, and people will do what they must–in their own jaded views.

    This wouldn’t be so bad if the laws actually were applied equitably to everyone.

    You don’t get a pass for “doing the right thing” unless a mixed jury aquits you.

    Our revolutionaries flaunted the laws to do what is right. They felt that the goal was worth the consequences and pursued it til its end. I’m not going to delegitimize their actions because they broke the laws. But their convictions were strong enough to override the obstacles of punishment from breaking the law.

    If our laws were equitably enforced, then these people would need to have that kind of conviction and most of these people don’t. We also need to have the conviction of our goals when they do overstep in conviction and be willing to fight for our side.

    • #10
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:25 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Rodin (View Comment):
    So it is that we rightly see that government is more easily contained and restrained than it is corrected.

    Well said. Only I think the Swamp may have loosened the restraints to such a degree that the limits may be difficult to restore.

    • #11
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:33 AM PST
    • 1 like
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    Will there be a time for official action from other countries beyond that of those cooperating on economic sanctions already?

    I would love to think that other countries will somehow contribute, but I suspect they will look the other way due to fears of a war engagement. It’s a tough one.

    • #12
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  13. GrannyDude Member

    Susan, I think the founders correctly perceived that creating and maintaining (and sometimes re-creating, if not quite from the ground up) a free country was bound to be a perpetual game of whack-a-mole. This just happens to be a big, fat mole. On the other hand, we have a pretty big, fat stick doing some enthusiastic whacking (DJT), and anything that creates pain and shame, however fleeting and from whatever source, for the Swamp Creatures is a good thing. 

    • #13
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:38 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  14. Addiction Is A Choice Member

    Two man-made objects are visible from space:

    1. The Great Wall of China
    2. David Kris’ forehead

    • #14
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:42 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Susan, I think the founders correctly perceived that creating and maintaining (and sometimes re-creating, if not quite from the ground up) a free country was bound to be a perpetual game of whack-a-mole. This just happens to be a big, fat mole. On the other hand, we have a pretty big, fat stick doing some enthusiastic whacking (DJT), and anything that creates pain and shame, however fleeting and from whatever source, for the Swamp Creatures is a good thing.

    Bless you, @GrannyDude, for your positive outlook. And I hope that he continues to whack the daylights out of them. If we could do just a couple of things to set them back on their heels I might be a little happier. I know, patience, patience.

    • #15
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:43 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  16. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Addiction Is A Choice (View Comment):

    Two man-made objects are visible from space:

    1. The Great Wall of China
    2. David Kris’ forehead

    Thank you for cracking me up, @addictionisachoice! I needed that!

    • #16
    • January 13, 2020, at 9:44 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  17. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpringJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I think the appointment of Kris is a further sign that it is impossible to reach into the FBI or DOJ and find someone who hasn’t been involved in the corruption and attempted coup against President Trump.

    Twelve years or so ago, I thought that the FISA system was a worry, but as long as a Judge signed off on the surveillance it was ok. I no longer think a Judge’s sign off is any protection at all.

    I wish I knew a way to solve the situation we are in, but Trump seems to be the only one fighting for us.

    • #17
    • January 13, 2020, at 10:22 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  18. Kevin Schulte Member

    Justice Roberts appoints the FISC judges. 

    The justice who penned the (oh my god, why did you fool me ) letter. Resigned Jan 1. 

    Roberts appointed the next judge. That judge appointed David Kris. 

    Who is Roberts accountable to ? 
    No one ?

    See a problem here ? 

    • #18
    • January 13, 2020, at 10:26 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Justice Roberts appoints the FISC judges.

    The justice who penned the (oh my god, why did you fool me ) letter. Resigned Jan 1.

    Roberts appointed the next judge. That judge appointed David Kris.

    Who is Roberts accountable to ?
    No one ?

    See a problem here ?

    @kevinschulte, thank you for this background information. It’s all outrageous. Just when you think it can’t get worse, it does.

    • #19
    • January 13, 2020, at 10:27 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  20. Arahant Member

    Here’s your pitchfork. Here’s your torch. Wait over there with the rest of the group. We’ll be moving on Washington soon.

    • #20
    • January 13, 2020, at 10:55 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  21. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    WillowSpring (View Comment):
    I wish I knew a way to solve the situation we are in, but Trump seems to be the only one fighting for us.

    Mostly. Rand Paul means well, but he doesn’t get much press. 

    • #21
    • January 13, 2020, at 11:31 AM PST
    • 1 like
  22. Stina Member

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Justice Roberts appoints the FISC judges.

    The justice who penned the (oh my god, why did you fool me ) letter. Resigned Jan 1.

    Roberts appointed the next judge. That judge appointed David Kris.

    Who is Roberts accountable to ?
    No one ?

    See a problem here ?

    Yeah. There’s a spot impeachment needs to shine a big bright bulb – the Scotus.

    I think impeachment of judges has been somewhat more productive than that of presidents.

    • #22
    • January 13, 2020, at 11:54 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  23. Kevin Schulte Member

    Stina (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Justice Roberts appoints the FISC judges.

    The justice who penned the (oh my god, why did you fool me ) letter. Resigned Jan 1.

    Roberts appointed the next judge. That judge appointed David Kris.

    Who is Roberts accountable to ?
    No one ?

    See a problem here ?

    Yeah. There’s a spot impeachment needs to shine a big bright bulb – the Scotus.

    I think impeachment of judges has been somewhat more productive than that of presidents.

    The correction I think, is it should take 5 of the nine SCOTUS judges to approve a FISC Justice. 

     

    • #23
    • January 13, 2020, at 12:03 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  24. Bob Thompson Member

    Roberts acts in some ways difficult to understand.

    • #24
    • January 13, 2020, at 12:28 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  25. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Roberts acts in some ways difficult to understand.

    . . . and it might be my imagination, but it’s rarely helpful to the Right.

    • #25
    • January 13, 2020, at 12:29 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  26. Arahant Member

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Roberts acts in some ways difficult to understand.

    With understatement like that, you might qualify to be a subject of the queen.

    • #26
    • January 13, 2020, at 12:53 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  27. Bob Thompson Member

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Roberts acts in some ways difficult to understand.

    . . . and it might be my imagination, but it’s rarely helpful to the Right.

    I don’t think it is your imagination.

    • #27
    • January 13, 2020, at 12:54 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  28. Bob Thompson Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Roberts acts in some ways difficult to understand.

    With understatement like that, you might qualify to be a subject of the queen.

    I even had typed a more accusative statement but it wasn’t based on any facts so I went that.

    • #28
    • January 13, 2020, at 12:56 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  29. Bob Thompson Member

    Here is an article that shines light on the world of David Kris. Not supposed to be the world of John Roberts. but…

    Sedition in Real Time

    Edit: Language Alert

    • #29
    • January 13, 2020, at 1:17 PM PST
    • 1 like
  30. Kevin Schulte Member

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Roberts acts in some ways difficult to understand.

    With understatement like that, you might qualify to be a subject of the queen.

    I even had typed a more accusative statement but it wasn’t based on any facts so I went that.

    Bob,

    With all the unbridled spying the Obama Bots did. Did they find something damning on Roberts and now Mr. Potter owns him ?

    That’s my theory 1

    Is he a Manchurian Judge knowingly placed by Globalist Bush. Then given the FISA power for more than the one reason. 

    That’s my theory 2.

     

    Did that ring any bell’s ?

     

    • #30
    • January 13, 2020, at 1:45 PM PST
    • 3 likes

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