Something Beautiful, and Ukrainian, for Christmas

 

Less than a year ago, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was granted Independence from the main body of Russian Orthodoxy. There is now an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church, with its own hierarchy, free of the Russian yoke.

Even though I am a Jew, I love Christmas music, and one of my main favorites has a new meaning, in the light of the above news. (Actually, my maternal grandfather was born in Odessa, now a part of independent Ukraine, so I do have a connection.) Each year, I try to pick up a new Christmas CD, and a few years ago I found this disk of Kiev Christmas Liturgy. I love the sound of the male voices, singing in Russian. Sublime, and I hope you like it too.

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  1. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Love the music.  

    • #1
  2. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    Small, not insignificant point” The Russian Orthodox Church disputes the autocephaly granted to the Ukrainian Church by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Patriarch Kirill states that the Ecumenical Patriarch had no business interfering with churches within the jurisdiction of the Russian church, and has severed full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate. 

    I’m not sure who’s right in this dispute, but I’m saddened at the rupture in our Church.

    • #2
  3. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Small, not insignificant point” The Russian Orthodox Church disputes the autocephaly granted to the Ukrainian Church by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Patriarch Kirill states that the Ecumenical Patriarch had no business interfering with churches within the jurisdiction of the Russian church, and has severed full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

    I’m not sure who’s right in this dispute, but I’m saddened at the rupture in our Church.

    Uh, the Russian Patriarch has authority over Russia.  Period.

    maybe if the Russians tried for once to be good neighbors and brothers, this would not be a problem.

    • #3
  4. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Not 100% sure but I think this is in Church Slavonic  not Russian. At least it was in the Ukrainian Orthodox church I attended growing up.

    • #4
  5. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Kozak (View Comment):

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Small, not insignificant point” The Russian Orthodox Church disputes the autocephaly granted to the Ukrainian Church by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Patriarch Kirill states that the Ecumenical Patriarch had no business interfering with churches within the jurisdiction of the Russian church, and has severed full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

    I’m not sure who’s right in this dispute, but I’m saddened at the rupture in our Church.

    Uh, the Russian Patriarch has authority over Russia. Period.

    maybe if the Russians tried for once to be good neighbors and brothers, this would not be a problem.

    It certainly is a mess.  I think a lot of Orthodox, outside of Ukraine and Russia, are mostly just upset at the way in which this was done unilaterally by Bartholomew, even if the outcome is the best for all involved.  But from a purely pastoral perspective, I understand why it was done.

    • #5
  6. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Small, not insignificant point” The Russian Orthodox Church disputes the autocephaly granted to the Ukrainian Church by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Patriarch Kirill states that the Ecumenical Patriarch had no business interfering with churches within the jurisdiction of the Russian church, and has severed full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

    I’m not sure who’s right in this dispute, but I’m saddened at the rupture in our Church.

    Uh, the Russian Patriarch has authority over Russia. Period.

    maybe if the Russians tried for once to be good neighbors and brothers, this would not be a problem.

    It certainly is a mess. I think a lot of Orthodox, outside of Ukraine and Russia, are mostly just upset at the way in which this was done unilaterally by Bartholomew, even if the outcome is the best for all involved. But from a purely pastoral perspective, I understand why it was done.

    Yes, I think Bartholomew was heavy-handed, but I do think it’s probably for the best. I’m just upset over the internal conflict. Politics ruins everything.

    • #6
  7. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    Kozak (View Comment):

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Small, not insignificant point” The Russian Orthodox Church disputes the autocephaly granted to the Ukrainian Church by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Patriarch Kirill states that the Ecumenical Patriarch had no business interfering with churches within the jurisdiction of the Russian church, and has severed full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

    I’m not sure who’s right in this dispute, but I’m saddened at the rupture in our Church.

    Uh, the Russian Patriarch has authority over Russia. Period.

    maybe if the Russians tried for once to be good neighbors and brothers, this would not be a problem.

    @kozak I didn’t mean to offend. As noted, I’m not sure who has jurisdiction here. I know the Ecumenical Patriarch transferred jurisdiction to Moscow in the 17th century, but I don’t know how things went in the 20th century, especially after the Soviet Union fell. I’m just saddened since the churches ought to be in communion.

    • #7
  8. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    Thanks for the education, everyone. Now, can we just sit back and be carried away from all the conflict by the beautiful music?

    • #8
  9. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Small, not insignificant point” The Russian Orthodox Church disputes the autocephaly granted to the Ukrainian Church by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Patriarch Kirill states that the Ecumenical Patriarch had no business interfering with churches within the jurisdiction of the Russian church, and has severed full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

    I’m not sure who’s right in this dispute, but I’m saddened at the rupture in our Church.

    Uh, the Russian Patriarch has authority over Russia. Period.

    maybe if the Russians tried for once to be good neighbors and brothers, this would not be a problem.

    @kozak I didn’t mean to offend. As noted, I’m not sure who has jurisdiction here. I know the Ecumenical Patriarch transferred jurisdiction to Moscow in the 17th century, but I don’t know how things went in the 20th century, especially after the Soviet Union fell. I’m just saddened since the churches ought to be in communion.

    Sorry.  Ukrainians are a tad bit touchy about everything Russian.  They’ve spent the last 400 years trying to completely destroy their language, culture and national identity.  The Russian Orthodox church played its part as well.  

     

    • #9
  10. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Thanks for the education, everyone. Now, can we just sit back and be carried away from all the conflict by the beautiful music?

    I apologize for taking it off-track. Love the music!

    • #10
  11. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Thanks for the education, everyone. Now, can we just sit back and be carried away from all the conflict by the beautiful music?

    Sorry.

    I listened to many an orthodox mass in the past  and the singing is very hypnotic.

    If you watch the movie Deer Hunter, you will see exactly what my wedding ceremony was like, and what all the church hall weddings I attended were like during my childhood.  I could tell it was filmed in a Ukrainian church hall because of the picture in the background of the hall bar.

    • #11
  12. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    You haven’t seen ornate until you see an Orthodox Church like the one pictured above. 

    • #12
  13. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    Granted I don’t much about this dispute, but the fact is that the Russian Orthodox Church has been intertwined with the Russian Government in many things which  kinda understandably could throw a wrench into  any Ukrainian fealty to the Russian Church.

    • #13
  14. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I can’t help this.  I hope someone finds it amusing, rather than insulting.  I don’t mean to be insulting.

    But that first photo makes me think of Bilbo’s dwarven friends at the Lonely Mountain.  Not from the movie, but from my own imagination after reading the book.

    • #14
  15. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I can’t help this. I hope someone finds it amusing, rather than insulting. I don’t mean to be insulting.

    But that first photo makes me think of Bilbo’s dwarven friends at the Lonely Mountain. Not from the movie, but from my own imagination after reading the book.

    Jokes about Orthodox and beards abound.

    • #15
  16. colleenb Member
    colleenb
    @colleenb

    I think there are currently 3 groups of Orthodox in Ukraine: Ukrainian Orthodox under the Moscow Patriarchy, Ukrainian Orthodox under Kyiv Patriarchy, and a Ukrainian Autocephelous Orthodox group. I recommend various articles in First Things about how this complicates the situation both politically and religiously. The nationalistic part of the Orthodox faith can be a  drawback. For those converting or looking to convert (thinking of Mr. Gabriel), I would recommend checking out the Melkite or other rites of the Roman Catholic Church. The more beautiful liturgy and singing the better I say, especially during this blessed Christmas season.

    • #16
  17. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    In the Oct. issue of Inside The Vatican, the following letter was addressed to the editor, Dr. Moynihan, from a priest:

    “Greetings in the Lord.  You certainly have a lot to deal with these days – radical challenges to the Catholic identity and practices, Vigano, and now, throwing the idols into the Tiber.   Life, I’m sure is not boring. 

    I appreciate your insights and the fuller story (on Russia and Ukraine). This is why I continue to be concerned on your coverage of the work of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in the work of restoration of the entirety of the Ukrainian Orthodox faithful into canonical Orthodoxy. Our own Archbishop Daniel Zelensky (UOC of USA) was instrumental in this whole process, and can provide you the “other side” of the story which you will never hear from Met. Hilarion, nor see on your visits to Russia.  The other side of the story not only is important, but a driving force in the work of the restoration of Orthodoxy in Ukraine and future relations with the Greek Catholics.

    Part of the problem is in the history of the Russian Church in its emergence of power, and its alliances with the Communists – from the mid-1950’s through the collapse of Communism and alliance of the ROC with the Russian state.  To understand this situation, you must understand that the actors – including the Russian Patriarchs Kyrill and Alexis, were operatives in the KGB with their own code names.

    The Ukrainians resisted the Communists and their Russia Church leaders – and longed for an untainted Orthodox Church that would truly shepherd them as a flock. Instead, they got a so-called autonomous Church under the thumb of Russia, which is waging war against them.  Their aspirations for an autocephalous  Church were usurped by another ex-KGB operative, “Patriarch” Filaret.  The Ecumenical Patriarch’s historic relationship and ministry over the Kyivan lands was their way to begin anew.  Archbishop Daniel could inform you of this “other side of the story” to a certain extent that is permitted by discretion and respect for those things which must remain unspoken.  

    I hope that you can realize the gravity of this, and at some point, provide a balanced journalistic expose of what the true situation is.”       –  letter from a priest in Oct. issue of Inside the Vatican Magazine.

    I thought that was one fascinating letter. These are very interesting times.

     

    • #17

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