Flag Burner Sentenced to 15 Years

 

A miscreant in Iowa burned a flag and was sentenced to 15 years in jail. American flag burning is protected under free speech rules. His problem was that it was an LGBTQ flag. (Not even a fully inclusive LGBTQIAPK flag, which, G-d forbid might have earned him a life sentence.)

He was convicted of a Hate Crime, which earned him the 15 years. He was also found guilty of harassment and reckless use of fire. The harassment charge was earned because he burned the flag outside a strip club. (The article does not indicate if this was an LGBTQ+ strip club or an ordinary, run-of-the-mill heterosexual strip club.) And he used fire recklessly because he burned the flag, and didn’t have a burn barrel, fire extinguisher, and other safety equipment.

I have always chafed at the concept of hate laws, which incur greater penalties because of perceived intent. This instance of meted justice seems particularly overbearing. From the brief article there was no one harmed (i.e., no one got punched, no one got burned). They should have charged him with theft, which is not mentioned in the charges, and with a public disturbance, and sent him for counseling. Fifteen years in jail is ridiculous.

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  1. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    He should have burned an American flag along with it.

     

    • #1
  2. KentForrester Coolidge
    KentForrester
    @KentForrester

    What a miscarriage of justice.  

    • #2
  3. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Even under the bizarre rules of “hate crime,” 15 years imprisonment for the “hate crime” of destroying a symbolic flag seems excessive. He didn’t set fire to the church from which he stole the flag. Even if the strip club in front of which was a homosexual-oriented strip club, he didn’t set fire to the club. There is no indication that any people were specifically targeted. I note that the separate charge of reckless use of explosives or fire justified a one year sentence. Something is clearly out of proportion here.

    [As a separate matter, I have wondered why not prosecute flag burners (whether the flag is the United States flag, the Chinese flag, the rainbow flag, the Christian flag, etc.) under environmental rules. Surely environmental laws that are broad enough to cover a landowner cleaning up a creek on his property are broad enough to cover an open fire in an urban environment.]

    • #3
  4. DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey
    @DrewInWisconsin

    If he’d done it in the UK, he would have been publicly executed.

    • #4
  5. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Burning the American flag is free speech and can not be infringed.  

    Burning an LGBT rainbow flag is hate speech and can not be tolerated.  

    All speech is free, as long as it does not make any liberals uncomfortable.  

    Or, to better say it, you are free to say anything, as long as you say things liberals agree with.  In other words, not free.  Restricted.  To liberal woke sentiments.  

     

    • #5
  6. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

    • #6
  7. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Unbelievable . . .

    • #7
  8. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Stad (View Comment):

    Unbelievable . . .

    I wish.

    • #8
  9. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    However, according to the Fox News article linked above, he did have a criminal record; so maybe the judge didn’t have a lot of leeway in sentencing. Perhaps a three-strikes law?

    • #9
  10. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    It is so hard to square this with the new anti-crime-prosecution measures sweeping the metropolitan areas around the country.

    It’s too bad the courts don’t ask the voters if they truly want to support this person and his or her dependents for fifteen long years–and longer since a life can’t be restarted cheaply or easily–for such a nonviolent offense. Maybe ask the voters if they even consider it a prosecutable crime to begin with.

     

    • #10
  11. Misthiocracy grudgingly Member
    Misthiocracy grudgingly
    @Misthiocracy

    I’ll be surprised if this case doesn’t get picked up by the Supreme Court.

    • #11
  12. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Burning the American flag is free speech and can not be infringed.

    Burning an LGBT rainbow flag is hate speech and can not be tolerated.

    What a great question for the next Democrat presidential debate.  Ask each candidate to explain why this does (or does not) make sense.

    • #12
  13. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

    I’m stealing this.  Maybe for my facebook profile….

    • #13
  14. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

    And dammit it needs something to offend Muslims…

    • #14
  15. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Fixed it.

     

    • #15
  16. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

    And dammit it needs something to offend Muslims…

    It’s already got the star of David.

     

    • #16
  17. Misthiocracy grudgingly Member
    Misthiocracy grudgingly
    @Misthiocracy

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

     

    And dammit it needs something to offend Muslims…

    It could also use a Taijitu.  We wouldn’t want Taoists to miss out on the pity party.

    • #17
  18. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Misthiocracy grudgingly (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

    And dammit it needs something to offend Muslims…

    It could also use a Taijitu. We wouldn’t want Taoists to miss out on the pity party.

    Since when do Taoists get offended by anything?

    • #18
  19. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Burning the American flag is free speech and can not be infringed.

    Burning an LGBT rainbow flag is hate speech and can not be tolerated.

    What a great question for the next Democrat presidential debate. Ask each candidate to explain why this does (or does not) make sense.

    Love that. And hate this 15 year sentence. I do hope he has an appeal process to a sane judicial authority.

    • #19
  20. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    However, according to the Fox News article linked above, he did have a criminal record; so maybe the judge didn’t have a lot of leeway in sentencing. Perhaps a three-strikes law?

    This is correct. According to the Des Moines register article, it was his classification as a habitual offender which made such a long sentence possible.

    He apparently faced a maximum of 5 years for the arson.  That still is a long sentence depending on the circumstances of the arson. It’s not clear from the article exactly how much he got for the arson, and how much was for the habitual offender classification. He only faced 30 days for the harassment. Also, he stole the flag from a church. 

    As usual these days, you’ve got to look beyond the attention grabbing headline to see what the real story is. 

    • #20
  21. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    PHenry (View Comment):
    Or, to better say it, you are free to say anything, as long as you say things liberals agree with.

    I learned that lesson 40 years ago when William Shockley was supposed to speak at the university I was attending, and all the leftists’ heads exploded.  Even then, they thought there were some opinions so offensive that they needed to be suppressed.  That’s when I formulated my rule, which is essentially what you expressed.

    • #21
  22. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    However, according to the Fox News article linked above, he did have a criminal record; so maybe the judge didn’t have a lot of leeway in sentencing. Perhaps a three-strikes law?

    This is correct. According to the Des Moines register article, it was his classification as a habitual offender which made such a long sentence possible.

    He apparently faced a maximum of 5 years for the arson. That still is a long sentence depending on the circumstances of the arson. It’s not clear from the article exactly how much he got for the arson, and how much was for the habitual offender classification. He only faced 30 days for the harassment. Also, he stole the flag from a church.

    As usual these days, you’ve got to look beyond the attention grabbing headline to see what the real story is.

    “Attention grabbing headline” – did they lie about him getting 15 years?  Is it 15 years, with 14 suspended?

    “Arson” is a stupid overcharge for burning a flag.  Common understanding of the term would imply destruction of a property of significant value (a vehicle or a building, not a $20 flag).

    In my non-lawyer but common-sense opinion, it sounds like a petty theft or misdemeanor disorderly conduct would be more reasonable.

     

    • #22
  23. JimGoneWild Coolidge
    JimGoneWild
    @JimGoneWild

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Fixed it.

     

    It needs a gun. Can you add a gun?

    • #23
  24. OldDanRhody, 7152 Maple Dr. Member
    OldDanRhody, 7152 Maple Dr.
    @OldDanRhody

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It’s too bad the courts don’t ask the voters if they truly want to support this person and his or her dependents for fifteen long years–and longer since a life can’t be restarted cheaply or easily–for such a nonviolent offense. Maybe ask the voters if they even consider it a prosecutable crime to begin with.

    Voters?  Pfui, what do they count for?
    It was clearly a thought crime, for which no sentence is too long.

    • #24
  25. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    However, according to the Fox News article linked above, he did have a criminal record; so maybe the judge didn’t have a lot of leeway in sentencing. Perhaps a three-strikes law?

    This is correct. According to the Des Moines register article, it was his classification as a habitual offender which made such a long sentence possible.

    He apparently faced a maximum of 5 years for the arson. That still is a long sentence depending on the circumstances of the arson. It’s not clear from the article exactly how much he got for the arson, and how much was for the habitual offender classification. He only faced 30 days for the harassment. Also, he stole the flag from a church.

    As usual these days, you’ve got to look beyond the attention grabbing headline to see what the real story is.

    “Attention grabbing headline” – did they lie about him getting 15 years? Is it 15 years, with 14 suspended?

    “Arson” is a stupid overcharge for burning a flag. Common understanding of the term would imply destruction of a property of significant value (a vehicle or a building, not a $20 flag).

    In my non-lawyer but common-sense opinion, it sounds like a petty theft or misdemeanor disorderly conduct would be more reasonable.

     

    The point is, he got such a long sentence for being a habitual offender, not for burning an LGBT Flag.  A headline that says, “Man gets longer sentence due to his multiple previous felony offenses” is more accurate, but has no political edge, and grabs far less attention than the misleading, “Man gets 15 years for flag burning.”

    You may be right that he was overcharged, which is why I said, “depending on the circumstances.”  But it is common that arson is charged even when the act does not result in a huge amount of destruction.  I don’t know the facts of the case, but if he got to the sentencing stage, presumably those facts were pretty well figured out by the court and attorneys.  If it should have been a misdemeanor, I’m sure he tried to make that argument.  My guess is the facts were not on his side.  Could be wrong, but that’s usually how these things shake out.  The assumption that he was railroaded for political reasons is likely wrong.  Possible, of course, but not likely.

    • #25
  26. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Remember, it’s important to offend everyone at once:

    And dammit it needs something to offend Muslims…

    You mean the Star of David and the Rainbow of Exotic Love doesn’t offend them already?

    • #26
  27. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Fixed it.

     

    Almost perfect. There’s still room (is there?) for a cross and an icon of the Virgin Mary.

    • #27
  28. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Zafar (View Comment):
    Almost perfect. There’s still room (is there?) for a cross and an icon of the Virgin Mary.

    It has the Cross of St. Andrew already.

    • #28
  29. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Fixed it.

     

    Almost perfect. There’s still room (is there?) for a cross and an icon of the Virgin Mary.

    We figured that in between all the other symbols on there, Christians were already offended. 

    and @daventers your reaction is why the Left gets away with so much.  Obviously, the punk deserved it.  Otherwise, he would not have gotten the sentence he did.  Do you actually believe that the justice system deserves that level of deference?

    • #29
  30. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    As a comparison:  the former American Airlines mechanic who sabotaged an airliner got a plea deal for 2 years…the crime of damaging aircraft carries up to 20 years, but he only got 10% of that.

    • #30
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