Of Impeachment and Accountability

 

Never Trump Republicans and their Democratic co-conspirators have another trick up their sleeves. Knowing that they probably do not have the votes to convict and remove the President in the Senate, they are desperately searching for a way to pull it off and they think they’ve found it: A secret vote and/or a generous reading of the two-thirds rule.

Pushed by people like lobbyist Juleanna Glover (formerly of the Bush 43 Administration and Bill Kristol acolyte), Laurence Tribe and former Sen. Jeff Flake, the operating theory is that if Senators were freed from accountability to their voters there would be 30 to 35 Republicans in the Senate ready to vote “yes” on conviction.

The other pipe dream is that the Constitution only demands a two-thirds majority of the Senators present. For every Senator that refuses to attend it brings that two-thirds number lower. But staying away is the same as a yes vote.

Jim Geraghty points out at National Review, “If Trump really is an unconstitutional menace who is abusing the power of the presidency for his personal interests, stopping him ought to be worth losing a Senate seat. And if this action isn’t worth losing a Senate seat over, then it’s hard to see how it is worth removing a president.”

A secret ballot after secret proceedings in the House sounds like a recipe for disaster. How do you think the public would react?

 

 

 

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  1. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Of note, I would far rather talk about C.J. Box’s exceptional Joe Pickett series that I wrote a post about instead of Trump and Impeachment.

    • #31
  2. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms and depositions.

    Twenty years from now, the three greatest stains on the reputation of Republicans for the last 100 years will be (a) Joe McCarthy, (b) Richard Nixon and (c) Donald Trump. Republicans in the late 1950’s were ashamed for not standing up to McCarthy. In the 1970’s Republicans were saved by turning against Nixon. Republicans in Congress in the years to come will be ashamed for not standing up to Trump.

    It’s rather difficult for me to take much of anything you say seriously when you’ve bobbed, ducked, weaved, and avoided questions about falsehoods you’ve spread here about facts involving the circumstances surrounding g the impeachment proceedings. I’m simply amazed that anyone who has been proven wrong on so many occasions is now pontificating on history.

    My goodness. Bless your heart.

    I am not aware that I have ever knowingly spread any falsehoods about Impeachment, let alone Trump. Sometimes I have discovered that I was mistaken about an issue, but I have been forthright about that.

    I hope that you and yours have a lovely and Merry Christmas.

    Thanks for the “knowingly” dodge. It’s a Christmas gift.

    Counsel, you don’t make mistakes of fact from time to time? There is a massive difference between “lying” and “making a mistake.” The first is morally culpable, the second is not.

    Yes, but when essentially the same questionable asertion is repeated ( or not withdrawn) after being rebutted, the matter of a “mistake” becomes decidedly less excusable.  And at some point, a matter of crediility justifiably spills over into new assertions.

     

    • #32
  3. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms and depositions.

    Twenty years from now, the three greatest stains on the reputation of Republicans for the last 100 years will be (a) Joe McCarthy, (b) Richard Nixon and (c) Donald Trump. Republicans in the late 1950’s were ashamed for not standing up to McCarthy. In the 1970’s Republicans were saved by turning against Nixon. Republicans in Congress in the years to come will be ashamed for not standing up to Trump.

    It’s rather difficult for me to take much of anything you say seriously when you’ve bobbed, ducked, weaved, and avoided questions about falsehoods you’ve spread here about facts involving the circumstances surrounding g the impeachment proceedings. I’m simply amazed that anyone who has been proven wrong on so many occasions is now pontificating on history.

    My goodness. Bless your heart.

    I am not aware that I have ever knowingly spread any falsehoods about Impeachment, let alone Trump. Sometimes I have discovered that I was mistaken about an issue, but I have been forthright about that.

    I hope that you and yours have a lovely and Merry Christmas.

    Thanks for the “knowingly” dodge. It’s a Christmas gift.

    Counsel, you don’t make mistakes of fact from time to time? There is a massive difference between “lying” and “making a mistake.” The first is morally culpable, the second is not.

    Yes, but when essentially the same questionable asertion is repeated ( or not withdrawn) after being rebutted, the matter of a “mistake” becomes decidedly less excusable. And at some point, a matter of crediility justifiably spills over into new assertions.

    Fair enough.  However, please give me an example.

    Let me give an example of my own.  For a long time, I believed that Trump had made fun of a disabled reporter.  Heck, I had seen the picture with my own two eyes.  However, then a fellow Ricochetti shared a three or so minute presentation that dissected the incident and Trump’s statement.  I wasn’t fully convinced by the presentation but I could not hold to my former belief, and since then, I omitted that example from my litany of concerns about Trump.  I also acknowledged that I could have been wrong in that thread.

    • #33
  4. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Gary Robbins: Will you grant me that while not everything said by McCarthy was a lie, he was sloppy, eager to get headlines, and careless which lead to the destruction of some innocent lives?

    You mean he was Adam Schiff for an earlier generation?

    Look, people high up in the American government knew he was right. And they kept their mouths shut. Why? Because they were afraid to let the Soviets know we had broken their code. (The British often let some very bad things happen after they cracked Enigma, too.)

    McCarthy was no different than many of his colleagues, or for that matter, many operating in the Congress today. But casting him as a villain the way you do shows how much you’re willing to perpetuate the leftist narrative. This truth has been out there for almost a quarter century but it keeps getting wrapped in the lie and presented their way. 

     

    • #34
  5. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms, and depositions.

    Don’t worry. It won’t be more than four or five terms.

    For better or worse, the 22nd Amendment applies to even Trump.

    I can imagine an exception to the 22nd Amendment due to the Democrat’s attempted coup and overthrow of the 2016 election with a sham impeachment.


     

    • #35
  6. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    A small correction. The first sentence should begin: “‘Country First’ Republicans and their Democrat…”

    Properly identifying what the term of art “country first” now means: real, actual Constitution last. The FBI, the DOJ, and the Democrat Party, with their TruCon lapdogs, must not be allowed to be above the law and no “law” must be allowed to subvert the Constitution.

    • #36
  7. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms, and depositions.

    Don’t worry. It won’t be more than four or five terms.

    For better or worse, the 22nd Amendment applies to even Trump.

    He will die a broken man.

    This hatred is really ugly. And, no, it cannot possibly be limited to the proxy, the avatar “Trump.” It must project through to the real problem, the American voters who dare to vote wrongly with real effect, generating real change you do not like.

    • #37
  8. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    I think the one thing that both Anti Trump and Pro Trump Republicans have in common is that they both believe they are putting America First.   It would be beneficial if both groups accepted the good faith of the other.  “Country First” has little value as a differentiator — it is mostly used to insult ones opponents.

    • #38
  9. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    namlliT noD (View Comment):
    I can imagine an exception to the 22nd Amendment due to the Democrat’s attempted coup and overthrow of the 2016 election with a sham impeachment.

    I can’t and there is no need to have one. Trump is doing well as far as the economy, regulations and judicial appointments are concerned but he is not indispensable.

    • #39
  10. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms, and depositions.

    Don’t worry. It won’t be more than four or five terms.

    For better or worse, the 22nd Amendment applies to even Trump.

    I can imagine an exception to the 22nd Amendment due to the Democrat’s attempted coup and overthrow of the 2016 election with a sham impeachment.


    Please name one member of the Supreme Court who would not vote to remove Trump as President after two terms if Trump were elected in 2020 and 2024.  Please name one Judge of the Circuit Court of Appeals.  Please name one Federal District Judge.  Please name one Federal Magistrate.  Just one.

    The answer is that not one of the 1,000 or so Federal Judges would agree with such an absurd argument.

    • #40
  11. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    A small correction. The first sentence should begin: “‘Country First’ Republicans and their Democrat…”

    Properly identifying what the term of art “country first” now means: real, actual Constitution last. The FBI, the DOJ, and the Democrat Party, with their TruCon lapdogs, must not be allowed to be above the law and no “law” must be allowed to subvert the Constitution.

    Country First means Constitution First, and rejection of the Trump Cult of Personality.

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms, and depositions.

    Don’t worry. It won’t be more than four or five terms.

    For better or worse, the 22nd Amendment applies to even Trump.

    He will die a broken man.

    This hatred is really ugly. And, no, it cannot possibly be limited to the proxy, the avatar “Trump.” It must project through to the real problem, the American voters who dare to vote wrongly with real effect, generating real change you do not like.

    I assure you, it does not.  However anyone, but whoever is the President, would have been prosecuted 11 times over for the 11 Obstructions of Justice outlined in Volume II of the Mueller Report.  The only thing stopping Trump’s prosecution is that he holds the office of the Presidency.  That will end under the 22nd Amendment.

    In the movie “Robocop” the criminal “Dick Jones” was discovered to be the Operating Officer of the the corporation which controlled Robocop.  When Jones was summarily fired by the Chairman of the Board, he no longer had protection from Robocop.

    • #41
  12. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    I think the one thing that both Anti Trump and Pro Trump Republicans have in common is that they both believe they are putting America First. It would be beneficial if both groups accepted the good faith of the other. “Country First” has little value as a differentiator — it is mostly used to insult ones opponents.

    Agreed.  But the tiresome invocation of the invective “NeverTrump” becomes a bit tiresome.

    • #42
  13. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):
    I can imagine an exception to the 22nd Amendment due to the Democrat’s attempted coup and overthrow of the 2016 election with a sham impeachment.

    I can’t and there is no need to have one. Trump is doing well as far as the economy, regulations and judicial appointments are concerned but he is not indispensable.

    After FDR, the American people agreed that there needed to be a term limit for Presidents, hence the 22nd Amendment.

    • #43
  14. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I anticipate that once Trump leaves office be that by conviction by the Senate or defeat at the polls, he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud, and that other fraudulent schemes such as Trump University will come to light.

    I was reliably informed by all the right-thinking people in late 2016 that only banana republics prosecute defeated politicians.

     

    • #44
  15. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud,

    Also, you are aware that both the State of New York taxing authorities and the Federal Government taxing authorities already have Donald Trump’s tax returns, aren’t you?   And have never found a reason to prosecute him?

     

    • #45
  16. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I anticipate that once Trump leaves office be that by conviction by the Senate or defeat at the polls, he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud, and that other fraudulent schemes such as Trump University will come to light.

    I was reliably informed by all the right-thinking people in late 2016 that only banana republics prosecute defeated politicians.

    No Presidential Candidate before Trump had ever encouraged his followers to “Lock Her Up.”  Trump will reap that whirlwind.

    • #46
  17. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud,

    Also, you are aware that both the State of New York taxing authorities and the Federal Government taxing authorities already have Donald Trump’s tax returns, aren’t you? And have never found a reason to prosecute him?

    Right now Trump has immunity while holding the term of President.  That ends under the 22nd Amendment no later than Noon on January 20, 2025.  (Hopefully that will end at Noon on January 20, 2021.)

    • #47
  18. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud,

    Also, you are aware that both the State of New York taxing authorities and the Federal Government taxing authorities already have Donald Trump’s tax returns, aren’t you? And have never found a reason to prosecute him?

    Right now Trump has immunity while holding the term of President. That ends under the 22nd Amendment no later than Noon on January 20, 2025. (Hopefully that will end at Noon on January 20, 2021.)

    He’s been filing taxes since (at least) the 1970s.  Unless you think this alleged fraud only started in the last three years, what’s your point?

     

    • #48
  19. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins: Twenty years from now, the three greatest stains on the reputation of Republicans for the last 100 years will be (a) Joe McCarthy…

    Except McCarthy was right. And proven so after Venova was declassified. But you keep repeating everything the left has taught you say. Hell, even Nicholas von Hoffman, an Alinsky acolyte, admitted it in his Washington Post column! We wouldn’t want the truth to go any farther.

    Yep. In one of her books Ann Coulter gives a very different account of the whole McCarthy affair than I had ever heard before. Then I read Blacklisted by History, by M. Stanton Evans. Very convincing. He goes back to all original sources, all contemporanious accounts. A very different picture emerges of this man than the one most of us have been fed by his enemies after he died.

    Will you grant me that while not everything said by McCarthy was a lie, he was sloppy, eager to get headlines, and careless which lead to the destruction of some innocent lives?

    Names of these innocent people he destroyed?

    • #49
  20. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Of note, I would far rather talk about C.J. Box’s exceptional Joe Pickett series that I wrote a post about instead of Trump and Impeachment.

    So go ahead and do so. No one’s stopping you.

    • #50
  21. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud,

    Also, you are aware that both the State of New York taxing authorities and the Federal Government taxing authorities already have Donald Trump’s tax returns, aren’t you? And have never found a reason to prosecute him?

    Right now Trump has immunity while holding the term of President. That ends under the 22nd Amendment no later than Noon on January 20, 2025. (Hopefully that will end at Noon on January 20, 2021.)

    He’s been filing taxes since (at least) the 1970s. Unless you think this alleged fraud only started in the last three years, what’s your point?

     

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Of note, I would far rather talk about C.J. Box’s exceptional Joe Pickett series that I wrote a post about instead of Trump and Impeachment.

    So go ahead and do so. No one’s stopping you.

    I welcome you going over to that post.  

    • #51
  22. PHCheese Inactive
    PHCheese
    @PHCheese

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms and depositions.

    Twenty years from now, the three greatest stains on the reputation of Republicans for the last 100 years will be (a) Joe McCarthy, (b) Richard Nixon and (c) Donald Trump. Republicans in the late 1950’s were ashamed for not standing up to McCarthy. In the 1970’s Republicans were saved by turning against Nixon. Republicans in Congress in the years to come will be ashamed for not standing up to Trump.

    More TDS. You and Schiff need an intervention. You need an TDSectomy.

    • #52
  23. PHCheese Inactive
    PHCheese
    @PHCheese

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins: Twenty years from now, the three greatest stains on the reputation of Republicans for the last 100 years will be (a) Joe McCarthy…

    Except McCarthy was right. And proven so after Venova was declassified. But you keep repeating everything the left has taught you say. Hell, even Nicholas von Hoffman, an Alinsky acolyte, admitted it in his Washington Post column! We wouldn’t want the truth to go any farther.

    Yep. In one of her books Ann Coulter gives a very different account of the whole McCarthy affair than I had ever heard before. Then I read Blacklisted by History, by M. Stanton Evans. Very convincing. He goes back to all original sources, all contemporanious accounts. A very different picture emerges of this man than the one most of us have been fed by his enemies after he died.

    Will you grant me that while not everything said by McCarthy was a lie, he was sloppy, eager to get headlines, and careless which lead to the destruction of some innocent lives?

    McSchiff?

    • #53
  24. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    He’ll just have to stay in office until he dies then.

    I think that that is his goal. Once he is out of office, his life will be in and out of courtrooms and depositions.

    Twenty years from now, the three greatest stains on the reputation of Republicans for the last 100 years will be (a) Joe McCarthy, (b) Richard Nixon and (c) Donald Trump. Republicans in the late 1950’s were ashamed for not standing up to McCarthy. In the 1970’s Republicans were saved by turning against Nixon. Republicans in Congress in the years to come will be ashamed for not standing up to Trump.

    More TDS. You and Schiff need an intervention. You need an TDSectomy.

    Is there a Trump Adoration Syndrome?

    • #54
  25. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Re: Trump’s taxes.

    The ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top. If there were really anything in Trump’s tax returns that indicated criminal acts then the IRS and the NY Revenue Office would be leaking like a sieve. This is another “I don’t have any proof but I know in my heart Trump is guilty” moment. It’s an article of faith, not reason. 

    • #55
  26. DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey
    @DrewInWisconsin

    EJHill: A secret ballot after secret proceedings in the House sounds like a recipe for disaster. How do you think the public would react?

    Torches and pitchforks.

    • #56
  27. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    DrewInWisconsin, Type MonkeyTorches and pitchforks.

    Fifty six comments later Drew wins a prize for being the first to address the OP.

    • #57
  28. Songwriter Inactive
    Songwriter
    @user_19450

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    No one is above the law.

    Gary, that statement will never be true until the Clintons are first brought to justice. 

    • #58
  29. danok1 Member
    danok1
    @danok1

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud,

    Also, you are aware that both the State of New York taxing authorities and the Federal Government taxing authorities already have Donald Trump’s tax returns, aren’t you? And have never found a reason to prosecute him?

    Right now Trump has immunity while holding the term of President. That ends under the 22nd Amendment no later than Noon on January 20, 2025. (Hopefully that will end at Noon on January 20, 2021.)

    He’s been filing taxes since (at least) the 1970s. Unless you think this alleged fraud only started in the last three years, what’s your point?

     

    danok1 (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Of note, I would far rather talk about C.J. Box’s exceptional Joe Pickett series that I wrote a post about instead of Trump and Impeachment.

    So go ahead and do so. No one’s stopping you.

    I welcome you going over to that post.

    I did when you posted it. 

    • #59
  30. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I anticipate that once Trump leaves office be that by conviction by the Senate or defeat at the polls, he is going to face prosecution by the State of New York and maybe the federal government for tax fraud, and that other fraudulent schemes such as Trump University will come to light.

    I was reliably informed by all the right-thinking people in late 2016 that only banana republics prosecute defeated politicians.

    No Presidential Candidate before Trump had ever encouraged his followers to “Lock Her Up.” Trump will reap that whirlwind.

    I don’t think that’s true. There were people in the U.S. who were wanting to prosecute W Bush for war crimes.   

    • #60
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