What Is Judaism?

 

Dennis Prager has a really interesting article out, called “What Is Judaism?” Mr. Prager has written and taught on the subject (including two years as a member of the Brooklyn College Department of Judaic Studies). This is how he leads:

If you’ve ever wondered what Judaism is, here is a list of its principal beliefs. This is not an official list, but these beliefs have been widely held by religious Jews for thousands of years.

The 27-item list boils down the essentials of Judaism. Here are the first three to get a feel for his article.

I. There is one universal God.
This God is the Creator of the world and the God of all humanity.

II. One universal God means there is one universal morality.

III. God is:
a) Incorporeal (not physical): All matter comes to an end.
b) Eternal: All matter has a beginning and an end. But God exists outside of time.
c) Outside of nature: God is not in nature. And nature is not divine.
d) Personal: God knows each of us.
e) Good: God is moral, just and compassionate.

Of course, my mind went to how Christianity differs to any of his points. Excluding where obviously something is specific to Judaism, such as the Torah as central, I thought I found three points that were at least different in perspective or emphasis. Let me take them one at a time.

V. God’s primary demand is that people be good.
Therefore, God cares more about how we act toward one another than how we act toward Him — just as we humans care more about how our children treat one another than how they treat us.
Therefore, right behavior matters more than intentions and even more than faith.

(1) I don’t know if in Christianity one could say that God cares more about how we act toward each other than to God. When Christ is asked what is the greatest commandment He says, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” (Mat 22:37-40). It’s really equal, not one greater than the other. If anything, greater would be love of God.

(2) Intentions do matter. If your intentions are good, but you miscalculated, then it is not a sin. If you attempt to help an old woman across the street and you trip and fall and bring the woman down, then not only was it not a sin, but your conscience was working in the proper way. If you think that global warming is destroying the earth and you try to advocate laws to save the planet, that is acting morally. If you think that global warming is a waste of money and you are acting to stop the waste of money toward the environment, then you are also acting morally. Your intention matters.

VI. There is an afterlife — God rewards the good and punishes the bad.
If good people and bad people have the same fate, there is either no God or a God that is not just.

The fate of your soul is not a simple summation of good and bad. Obviously we all do good and bad things. The fate of your soul rests on the state of your heart at death. You can be a bad sinner all your life, but if you have a change of heart—a true and sincere change of heart—you can be saved. Scrooge in Dickens’ A Christmas Carol is a literary example. But the key is sincere contrition. God knows if it was sincere and the habit of constant sin leads to a hardening of the heart, making it extremely difficult to change.

VIII. Reward in the afterlife (“heaven”) is available to all good people, not just good Jews.

Now here you might have a variety of views within the various Christian denominations. On the one extreme, you have those where faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is absolutely fundamental. You cannot be saved without that as a founding principle. On the other extreme, salvation could be open to all people who have shown love to their neighbor. I lean to the latter but it comes down to the state of the heart.

Those are the ones I found distinctions. But, not being Jewish, I found this one very interesting.

XIV. Judaism, too, has a trinity: God, Torah and Israel (meaning Jewish peoplehood and the Land of Israel).
The removal of any one of them is no longer Judaism. It would be as if the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit were removed from Christianity.

I never thought about Judaism that way, but I can see his point.

This all rests on Prager’s understanding of Judaism. He certainly knows more about it than I do. (Side note, I got one of my degrees from Brooklyn College, where he taught.) I wonder if any of the Jewish people here would dispute any of Prager’s points, and do any of the Christians here see other distinctions. Of course, do you even agree with my distinctions?

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  1. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Manny (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    I highlighted what seems to be the least important phrase in those verses, “The second is like it.” That’s always kind of confused me until I realized that there is a mystical element to it. Why would loving God be the same thing as loving your neighbor? But if you realize that every human being has an element of God in them, after all every human is made in God’s image, then by loving your neighbor you are mystically loving God. And by loving God you are mystically loving your neighbor. That’s why in Christianity they are equal and the same.

    I think there’s a non-symmetry. I think I wrote about it on Ricochet.

    I think it’s one of those posts I haven’t launched yet. Maybe after the exams are graded.

    It’s not that “every human being has an element of G-d in them” because we’re made in G-d’s image. It’s that every human being has something like G-d in them.

    OK. I don’t understand what you mean by it being non-symmetric.

    They’re not the same. Love of G-d and love of neighbor are not in equal terms. One is based on the other.

    • #31
  2. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I will say, however, that the quote from Jesus is often misquoted. It’s from the Shema, only it reads, “You will love the Lord your God, with all your Heart, with all your soul and with all your might.”

    Unless he’s not quoting the Shema; “Might” in Hebrew is Mee-oh-decha–strength, or might.

    Good observation. I’ve never seen that pointed out. It never dawned on me there was a discrepancy. The NT is written in Greek, so I wonder if that’s a translation issue or Christ put a variation to it.

    This one is a real puzzler. On the surface, it looks like he’s misquoting or paraphrasing from Deut. 6.

    It doesn’t look like there’s any Hebrew-Greek issue. Jesus would have been speaking in Hebrew/Aramaic, and Matthew has every reason to translate Jesus to Greek using the preexisting Greek vocabulary by quoting the Septuagint.

    But the Septuagint appears to use dunamis (δυνάμεώς here), a standard word for power or might.

    Consulting this book, it looks like some New Testament scribes added a word for strength or might, ischui, which is inserted in front of mind in some of the old NT manuscripts. So they also thought this was weird and tried to sort out what they thought was a mistake in the texts, or they automatically filled in a word for strength. But even they usually include mind.

    It looks like Jesus said “mind” instead of “might.”

    Continued:

    I can see how “with all your mind” is an indirect phrasing of “with all your might.”  I forget the rhetorical term for phrasing something indirectly.  “With all your mind” is an almost superlative way of saying with all your strength.  Perhaps Christ is trying to reach even beyond the scope of the Shema.  

    • #32
  3. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Why would Jesus not just quote properly? Why paraphrase? Why add another term? I do not know.

    I can hazard a guess, and only a guess, but is is drawn from context: Go to Matthew 22 and re-read verse 29. Then read the passage after the one in question, the one about interpreting the Psalms.

    Jesus is dealing with Pharisees who do not think through the Scriptures carefully. What they need is precisely to think through the Scriptures using dianoia, the word for mind Jesus uses here. It means thinking through things carefully, trying to see through a matter to get to the other side. They need to do this, from the Gospel of John.

    Say I’m arguing with a leftist who doesn’t give a rat’s hemorrhoid for states’ rights and I borrow but modify some familiar language from Lincoln, saying that America is to be a nation “of the states, by the states, for the people.”

    I’m not misquoting as such, or paraphrasing. I’m just asking the leftist to reconsider his categories: Maybe the Constitutional design is that the rights of the people be safeguarded by the states.

    Maybe Jesus is asking the Pharisees to reconsider their categories: Maybe the Torah points to a law of love of G-d and neighbor rather than rules, and maybe it points to a Messiah.

    See my other comment.  I think Jesus is trying to expand the scope of the Shema.  Just like he makes other laws stricter, he is making this even more definitive or expansive.

    • #33
  4. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny: VI. There is an afterlife — God rewards the good and punishes the bad.
    If good people and bad people have the same fate, there is either no God or a God that is not just.

    In the NT we see this point was disputed, the Sadducees denied the resurrection while the Pharisees affirmed we will all rise again one day. My understanding was that this disagreement had never really been settled and some modern Jews still don’t believe in an afterlife.

     

    Yes that’s right.  

    • #34
  5. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny: VI. There is an afterlife — God rewards the good and punishes the bad.
    If good people and bad people have the same fate, there is either no God or a God that is not just.

    In the NT we see this point was disputed, the Sadducees denied the resurrection while the Pharisees affirmed we will all rise again one day. My understanding was that this disagreement had never really been settled and some modern Jews still don’t believe in an afterlife.

    I believe Josephus also chronicles this division. There are some delightful passages in the Talmud where rabbis argue that resurrection is in the Tanakh.

    This has come up before on R. I can probably find an old link. But definitely not from my phone here.

    Eridemus up above in comment 7 has a link to a rabbi lecturing on the afterlife.  It is well worth a listen.  He speaks of resurrection.

    • #35
  6. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny: VI. There is an afterlife — God rewards the good and punishes the bad.
    If good people and bad people have the same fate, there is either no God or a God that is not just.

    In the NT we see this point was disputed, the Sadducees denied the resurrection while the Pharisees affirmed we will all rise again one day. My understanding was that this disagreement had never really been settled and some modern Jews still don’t believe in an afterlife.

    I believe Josephus also chronicles this division. There are some delightful passages in the Talmud where rabbis argue that resurrection is in the Tanakh.

    This has come up before on R. I can probably find an old link. But definitely not from my phone here.

    In fact there’s a post on the main feed at this very moment with a quite detailed description of the Jewish afterlife that I’ve never heard before plus a comment on the first page disputing it.

    • #36
  7. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Manny (View Comment):
    I highlighted what seems to be the least important phrase in those verses, “The second is like it.” That’s always kind of confused me until I realized that there is a mystical element to it. Why would loving God be the same thing as loving your neighbor? But if you realize that every human being has an element of God in them, after all every human is made in God’s image, then by loving your neighbor you are mystically loving God. And by loving God you are mystically loving your neighbor. That’s why in Christianity they are equal and the same.

    Manny,

    Thanks.

    I’ve wandered through the world for many years wondering why I seemed to be alone in having been confused by just that question, and in coming to just that surprising answer, hidden in the smallest connective words of the text.

    Now I’ve begun to discover the others.  One, so far.  Maybe I’ll discover more in the next few days, right here.

     

     

    • #37
  8. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    I highlighted what seems to be the least important phrase in those verses, “The second is like it.” That’s always kind of confused me until I realized that there is a mystical element to it. Why would loving God be the same thing as loving your neighbor? But if you realize that every human being has an element of God in them, after all every human is made in God’s image, then by loving your neighbor you are mystically loving God. And by loving God you are mystically loving your neighbor. That’s why in Christianity they are equal and the same.

    Manny,

    Thanks.

    I’ve wandered through the world for many years wondering why I seemed to be alone in having been confused by just that question, and in coming to just that surprising answer, hidden in the smallest connective words of the text.

    Now I’ve begun to discover the others. One, so far. Maybe I’ll discover more in the next few days, right here.

     

     

    You’re welcome Mark.  We’ve probably have gone through the same experience with that passage.

    • #38
  9. Mate De Inactive
    Mate De
    @MateDe

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Mate De (View Comment):

    V. God’s primary demand is that people be good.
    Therefore, God cares more about how we act toward one another than how we act toward Him — just as we humans care more about how our children treat one another than how they treat us.
    Therefore, right behavior matters more than intentions and even more than faith.

    Uh, where did he get this? Of course God cares how we act towards him. It’s in the 10 commandments. ” I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other Gods before me”. I would say that commandment means God cares how we act toward him. Didn’t Dennis Prager write a book on the 10 commandments?

    I think you misunderstand what Prager says. It’s not a competition about whom we love more. He didn’t say G-d doesn’t care about whether we love Him. He is simply saying that G-d is saying that our relationships with each other should also be treasured, especially since our relationships can be difficult and challenging. G-d doesn’t complain about our not taking out the trash.

    I am just going by his own words. He said “God cares more how we act towards each other than how we act toward him”. Also love wasn’t mentioned by Mr Prager or myself, we are talking about actions. I am merely pointing out that, in scripture, God does care how we act toward him. In the Old Testament, you have to be “clean” in order to be in the presence of the Lord, I would say that is further evidence that God does care how we ACT toward him. Also, I care how my kids act toward me. That too in the commandments “Honor your mother and father”. I just find this reasoning strange, especially from Dennis Prager.

    • #39
  10. Mate De Inactive
    Mate De
    @MateDe

    Manny (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Mate De (View Comment):

    V. God’s primary demand is that people be good.
    Therefore, God cares more about how we act toward one another than how we act toward Him — just as we humans care more about how our children treat one another than how they treat us.
    Therefore, right behavior matters more than intentions and even more than faith.

    Uh, where did he get this? Of course God cares how we act towards him. It’s in the 10 commandments. ” I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other Gods before me”. I would say that commandment means God cares how we act toward him. Didn’t Dennis Prager write a book on the 10 commandments?

    I think you misunderstand what Prager says. It’s not a competition about whom we love more. He didn’t say G-d doesn’t care about whether we love Him. He is simply saying that G-d is saying that our relationships with each other should also be treasured, especially since our relationships can be difficult and challenging. G-d doesn’t complain about our not taking out the trash.

    @susanquinnThe way Prager phrased it, he does make it sound like it’s not that important.

    exactly

    • #40
  11. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny: VI. There is an afterlife — God rewards the good and punishes the bad.
    If good people and bad people have the same fate, there is either no God or a God that is not just.

    In the NT we see this point was disputed, the Sadducees denied the resurrection while the Pharisees affirmed we will all rise again one day. My understanding was that this disagreement had never really been settled and some modern Jews still don’t believe in an afterlife.

    I believe Josephus also chronicles this division. There are some delightful passages in the Talmud where rabbis argue that resurrection is in the Tanakh.

    This has come up before on R. I can probably find an old link. But definitely not from my phone here.

    In fact there’s a post on the main feed at this very moment with a quite detailed description of the Jewish afterlife that I’ve never heard before plus a comment on the first page disputing it.

    Thanks Joseph.

    • #41
  12. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Mate De (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Mate De (View Comment):

    V. God’s primary demand is that people be good.
    Therefore, God cares more about how we act toward one another than how we act toward Him — just as we humans care more about how our children treat one another than how they treat us.
    Therefore, right behavior matters more than intentions and even more than faith.

    Uh, where did he get this? Of course God cares how we act towards him. It’s in the 10 commandments. ” I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other Gods before me”. I would say that commandment means God cares how we act toward him. Didn’t Dennis Prager write a book on the 10 commandments?

    I think you misunderstand what Prager says. It’s not a competition about whom we love more. He didn’t say G-d doesn’t care about whether we love Him. He is simply saying that G-d is saying that our relationships with each other should also be treasured, especially since our relationships can be difficult and challenging. G-d doesn’t complain about our not taking out the trash.

    I am just going by his own words. He said “God cares more how we act towards each other than how we act toward him”. Also love wasn’t mentioned by Mr Prager or myself, we are talking about actions. I am merely pointing out that, in scripture, God does care how we act toward him. In the Old Testament, you have to be “clean” in order to be in the presence of the Lord, I would say that is further evidence that God does care how we ACT toward him. Also, I care how my kids act toward me. That too in the commandments “Honor your mother and father”. I just find this reasoning strange, especially from Dennis Prager.

    Agree on all points.  

    • #42
  13. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Manny: I wonder if any of the Jewish people here would dispute any of Prager’s points

    I have a problem with V.

    G-d’s primary demand is that people follow His commandments.  As a corollary to doing so, you will be good.  But to say “G-d’s primary demand is that people be good” is just too fuzzy.  If you follow the 10 Commandments, you will be good, but nowhere in those Commandments does it say “be good.”  There is the famous quote from Hillel (a rabbi who lived 2,000 years ago) in the Talmud, that the Torah can be summarized like this:  “don’t do what is hateful to your fellow; the rest is commentary, go and learn.”   I suppose you could say this exalts being good in a backhanded sort of way.  That being said, the Torah/Judaism elevates caring for widows and orphans above all other human endeavors.

    • #43
  14. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Manny: I wonder if any of the Jewish people here would dispute any of Prager’s points

    V. G-d’s primary demand is that people follow His commandments. As a corollary to doing so, you will be good. But to say “G-d’s primary demand is that people be good” is just too fuzzy. If you follow the 10 Commandments, you will be good, but nowhere in those Commandments does it say “be good.” There is the famous quote from Hillel (a rabbi who lived 2,000 years ago) in the Talmud, that the Torah can be summarized like this: “don’t do what is hateful to your fellow; the rest is commentary, go and learn.” I suppose you could say this exalts being good in a backhanded sort of way. That being said, a Jew who, among life’s pursuits, prioritizes caring for widows and orphans is considered a hero.

    The criticisms of our faith (or the intersection of our two faiths, if you like) that depend upon unintentional wordplay are the most difficult to respond to.

    I’m glad we have a pro around to handle them. 

    (More than just this one Jewish guy, of course. My squad has a star quarterback on Ricochet, too, and some high-draft number backups.)

    • #44
  15. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Manny: I wonder if any of the Jewish people here would dispute any of Prager’s points

    V. G-d’s primary demand is that people follow His commandments. As a corollary to doing so, you will be good. But to say “G-d’s primary demand is that people be good” is just too fuzzy. If you follow the 10 Commandments, you will be good, but nowhere in those Commandments does it say “be good.” There is the famous quote from Hillel (a rabbi who lived 2,000 years ago) in the Talmud, that the Torah can be summarized like this: “don’t do what is hateful to your fellow; the rest is commentary, go and learn.” I suppose you could say this exalts being good in a backhanded sort of way. That being said, a Jew who, among life’s pursuits, prioritizes caring for widows and orphans is considered a hero.

    The criticisms of our faith (or the intersection of our two faiths, if you like) that depend upon unintentional wordplay are the most difficult to respond to.

    I’m glad we have a pro around to handle them.

    (More than just this one Jewish guy, of course. My squad has a star quarterback on Ricochet, too, and some high-draft number backups.)

    Well, when it comes to G-d and Israel, I am definitely an amateur (the word means lover), not a pro.

    • #45
  16. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Manny: I wonder if any of the Jewish people here would dispute any of Prager’s points

    I have a problem with V.

    G-d’s primary demand is that people follow His commandments. As a corollary to doing so, you will be good. But to say “G-d’s primary demand is that people be good” is just too fuzzy. If you follow the 10 Commandments, you will be good, but nowhere in those Commandments does it say “be good.” There is the famous quote from Hillel (a rabbi who lived 2,000 years ago) in the Talmud, that the Torah can be summarized like this: “don’t do what is hateful to your fellow; the rest is commentary, go and learn.” I suppose you could say this exalts being good in a backhanded sort of way. That being said, the Torah/Judaism elevates caring for widows and orphans above all other human endeavors.

    Yes, I could not see where Prager was coming from with that.  His whole minimizing of reverence to God is striking.  

    • #46
  17. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):
    Well, when it comes to G-d and Israel, I am definitely an amateur (the word means lover), not a pro.

    Well played!

    • #47
  18. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    If you’ve ever wondered what Judaism is, here is a list of its principal beliefs

    Is Judaism primarily identified as a set of beliefs? That’s true of Christianity, but then Christianity is an orthodoxic religion, whereas I thought Judaism was more an orthopraxic religion. Jews are identified not so much by what they believe, but by what they do and by their connection to the historic Jewish people, with whom God made His covenant thousands of years ago. “Judaism” is the continuing story of Jews and the working out of their covenant with God through history.

    Am I wrong about this?

    • #48
  19. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    If you’ve ever wondered what Judaism is, here is a list of its principal beliefs

    Is Judaism primarily identified as a set of beliefs? That’s true of Christianity, but then Christianity is an orthodoxic religion, whereas I thought Judaism was more an orthopraxic religion. Jews are identified not so much by what they believe, but by what they do and by their connection to the historic Jewish people, with whom God made His covenant thousands of years ago. “Judaism” is the continuing story of Jews and the working out of their covenant with God through history.

    Am I wrong about this?

    I couldn’t answer since I’m not Jewish, but here’s a speculation.  Judaism is multi dimensional.  It has orthodoxic and orthopraxic elements.  As I think about it, aren’t all religions both orthodoxic and orthopraxic?

    • #49
  20. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Manny (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    If you’ve ever wondered what Judaism is, here is a list of its principal beliefs

    Is Judaism primarily identified as a set of beliefs? That’s true of Christianity, but then Christianity is an orthodoxic religion, whereas I thought Judaism was more an orthopraxic religion. Jews are identified not so much by what they believe, but by what they do and by their connection to the historic Jewish people, with whom God made His covenant thousands of years ago. “Judaism” is the continuing story of Jews and the working out of their covenant with God through history.

    Am I wrong about this?

    I couldn’t answer since I’m not Jewish, but here’s a speculation. Judaism is multi dimensional. It has orthodoxic and orthopraxic elements. As I think about it, aren’t all religions both orthodoxic and orthopraxic?

    Religion has more than one definition.  If I had to give a first definition, one which could be used to give other definitions, it would be

    religion: 1. (Philosophy) n.  a body of beliefs concerning the following subjects or questions…

    It follows that every religion(1) is orthdoxic and nothing else (if orthodoxic means “characterized by certain beliefs or faiths”).

    A religion(1) will often include beliefs about practice. Thus, most religions(1) are orthodoxic and nothing else, and to subdivide them according to just what it is that is believed, some are orthopraxic (if that word means “characterized by prescriptions about works”).

    Thus, Judaism and Christianity as instances of the class religion(1) are completely orthodoxic, and both are orthopraxic.

    I would add a second definition:

    religion: 2. (Sociology) n.  a social group characterized by …

    Then, one could be a member of a religion(2) and not be a believer in an associated religion(1).

    It’s my speculation that only a small proportion of members of the Christian religion(2) believe in the Christian religion(1). That there was a shift in the ratio starting sometime after Pentecost, when it stood at 100%.

    You Bible studiers can give the Scriptural references for my speculation.  Christ’s own parables and other teachings, Revelation, others.  I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.  One might answer, well, the Jews and none of the many other humans were G_d’s chosen people, so there it is.  But our Scriptures say that Abraham was saved by faith, not by birth.

    • #50
  21. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    You Bible studiers can give the Scriptural references for my speculation. Christ’s own parables and other teachings, Revelation, others. I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    Could you restate the teaching, please? I’d love to answer if I can, but I don’t think I understand the question.

    • #51
  22. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    If you’ve ever wondered what Judaism is, here is a list of its principal beliefs

    Is Judaism primarily identified as a set of beliefs? That’s true of Christianity, but then Christianity is an orthodoxic religion, whereas I thought Judaism was more an orthopraxic religion. Jews are identified not so much by what they believe, but by what they do and by their connection to the historic Jewish people, with whom God made His covenant thousands of years ago. “Judaism” is the continuing story of Jews and the working out of their covenant with God through history.

    Am I wrong about this?

    You are not wrong.  I think you got to the guts of the materr J-Cli, well done.

    • #52
  23. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    I am not an expert on the subject but nearly everything in Christianity comes from Judaism, with the exception of the trinity.  We do not impart to human beings divine status.

    • #53
  24. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    (More than just this one Jewish guy, of course. My squad has a star quarterback on Ricochet, too, and some high-draft number backups.)

    I sense, somehow, that our star has now read this.  I don’t think he knows of his celebrity status, and let’s keep it that way. Pride goeth before the fall.

    • #54
  25. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    I am not an expert on the subject but nearly everything in Christianity comes from Judaism, . . .

    Indeed.

    . . . with the exception of the trinity.

    I wouldn’t even classify that as an exception. At a minimum, it is clear that Christians get their theology of the Trinity by interpreting both the old Old and the New Testaments. It’s also said that discussions internal to Judaism precedented this.

    I dabble in this topic myself; see the penultimate section of this old post.  Better than I is one very fine Bible scholar, Father Stephen Young, an eastern orthodox guy; see this post on his blog and his citations.

    • #55
  26. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    You Bible studiers can give the Scriptural references for my speculation. Christ’s own parables and other teachings, Revelation, others. I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    Could you restate the teaching, please? I’d love to answer if I can, but I don’t think I understand the question.

    Does Scripture say that only a few of those who call out their faith aloud will be saved from death?

     

    • #56
  27. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    You Bible studiers can give the Scriptural references for my speculation. Christ’s own parables and other teachings, Revelation, others. I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    Could you restate the teaching, please? I’d love to answer if I can, but I don’t think I understand the question.

    Does Scripture say that only a few of those who call out their faith aloud will be saved from death?

    I don’t believe so, no.

    The Greek pistis is faith, but also faithfulness, as it is translated in, e.g., Galatians. James tells us faith is demonstrated by works. From what I can tell, Hebrews 11:1–instead of telling us that faith means belief without evidence–tells us that faith is the life-change required by our belief in G-d’s testimony and in the unseen deeds of Christ (from a little earlier Hebrews).

    The story of Jeremiah and the Recabites suggests that the faith that saves is covenant faithfulness–not works that earn G-d’s favor (the usual Protestant misunderstanding of Catholicism), and certainly not belief without reference to action (a false caricature of Protestant theology).

    Naomi at the beginning of Ruth observes that her family has been found guilty in G-d’s lawcourt–a judgment reversed by the end of the book. What sort of faith does Ruth have–belief, works, or something else?  “Your people will be my people, and your G-d my G-d” is not the Shema from Deuteronomy 6, or much of a summary of Torah monotheism. It’s still a commitment to an orthodoxy, one she probably doesn’t even understand very well.  But what it really is–encompassing both belief and action–is a commitment to faithful living in the covenant with this G-d.

    Oh, and there’s my old post on Noah.

    • #57
  28. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    You Bible studiers can give the Scriptural references for my speculation. Christ’s own parables and other teachings, Revelation, others. I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    Could you restate the teaching, please? I’d love to answer if I can, but I don’t think I understand the question.

    Yeah, me too.  I agreed with everything up to this point.  

    • #58
  29. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    If you’ve ever wondered what Judaism is, here is a list of its principal beliefs

    Is Judaism primarily identified as a set of beliefs? That’s true of Christianity, but then Christianity is an orthodoxic religion, whereas I thought Judaism was more an orthopraxic religion. Jews are identified not so much by what they believe, but by what they do and by their connection to the historic Jewish people, with whom God made His covenant thousands of years ago. “Judaism” is the continuing story of Jews and the working out of their covenant with God through history.

    Am I wrong about this?

    You are not wrong. I think you got to the guts of the materr J-Cli, well done.

    Is that true?  Could you still be a Jew if you believed in the Greek gods as dieties, even though you are ethnically Jewish?  There has to be some level of fundamental belief.  That’s what Prager in his article was delineating, the core beliefs.

    • #59
  30. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    Saint Augustine

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I would like to know if there are any foreshadowings of this teaching in the O.T.

    I am not an expert on the subject but nearly everything in Christianity comes from Judaism, . . .

    Indeed.

    I guess it depends what you mean “comes from Judaism.”  Manna in the desert is a foreshadow of the Eucharist, but there is a world of difference between heaven sent bread and bread transformed into the body of Christ.  Yes, the root came from Judaism, but the end is significantly different.  And no the Trinity is nowhere in the OT.  Suggestions of the various persons of God do not equate to the Trinity.  My opinion, of course.

    • #60
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