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If You Truly Believed in G-d, What Would You Be Like?
I was watching a video where Dennis Prager interviewed Jordan Peterson.
Peterson said he has difficulty with the question, “Do you believe in G-d?” commenting, in effect, that if you say that you do truly believe, it would mean you were living a transformative life, both for yourself and those around you, and who among us can lay claim to that? I had another thought on this matter, however, which was that a person who truly believed in G-d would never be asked such a question.
We Jews are lucky because, whether we believe or not, we get a ticket into the next world. If we truly mess up, we have to go to Gehinnom (as bad as hell, if not worse), but for a maximum of only one year. While there, we experience a painful dry-cleaning of our souls, so to speak, but afterward enter a sublime world to come. But that world to come, although stress-free, is kind of boring. Our souls up there wait impatiently for the Messiah to come, whereupon they will be brought back to earth and assume a physical form as our bodies are resurrected in the Land of Israel. You see, the action is here, not up there, since the soul’s purpose is to highlight or extract the spiritual spark in everything physical, and to obey G-d’s many commandments, but it can only do so in partnership with a physical body on planet earth.
Still, the question of what it would be like to truly believe in G-d does arouse interest. My faith begins with the people who live in Israel. I see G-d in them. A young family who lives next door includes four children that I do not believe could have grown up the way they did and be who they are anywhere else. How to describe them? High achievers yet humble, sure of themselves yet respectful of others. The seven-year-old boy, especially, has a great future in front of him. Possessed of a regal bearing, the other neighborhood kids his age look up to him and follow his lead. What distinguishes Israelis of any age is their laser-like focus on the matter at hand and extreme honesty; I find these qualities to be divine. Interestingly, the kids in the family next door go to a religious school even though, while the mother is observant, the father is not.
Whenever I visit the central bus station in Jerusalem, I also see G-d — in the soldiers who are milling about, sitting down for coffee and a snack, waiting for a bus. Such joy and love of life, humility, respect, knowing so much yet still full of innocence. Plus, they would sacrifice their lives for me. And, in a sense, the civilized world depends on them.
I am curious if anyone reading this would be willing to answer the question in the title. Of course, if you are already a true believer, you would perhaps be willing to enlighten us as to what your life of true belief is like.
Published in General
Or one could say that overlaying these conclusions on your perceptions is a set of assumptions based in a false predicate. Then again, that could be your mind – your prideful mind – pushing away the truth in order to conform to its own false predicates. One could say that there’s something hard-wired in humans to conjure up deities to explain the world; another could respond by saying that the innate yearning for the divine is a sign this rude clay was molded to look up and connect.
A lot of one’s perspective hinges on your conception of God, to say the obvious. Helpful fixer involved intimately in your life, vs. Prime Mover Great Architect who wrote the code and included things like “conscience” as a way to detect errors in the program, then strolled off and let the whole thing play out. I side with Anselm, and its pesky implications – if God is greater than that which can be conceived, then all human attempts to apprehend His nature bear a fatal flaw that flowers into sectarianism and other forms of intellectual corruption.
tl;dr it depends
True, we cannot apprehend His nature. This same principle was enunciated by Maimonides (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon), a contemporary of Anselm. Maimonides said we can only describe G-d in terms of what He is not. He is not limited. He is not corporeal. His existence is not due to any cause. The best we can do is imitate His actions, as spelled out in Sotah 14b, in the Babylonian Talmud:
Rabbi Chama the son of Rabbi Chanina said, “What is the meaning of the verse, ‘After Hashem, your G-d, shall you walk (Deuteronomy 13:5)’? Is it possible for a man to walk after the divine presence? And isn’t it already stated, ‘For Hashem your G-d is a consuming fire?’ (Deuteronomy 4:24)
Rather, to follow the character traits of G-d. “Just as He clothes the naked, as it is written, ‘And the Lord G-d made for Adam and and his wife cloaks of leather, and he clothed them (Genesis 3:21);’ so too you shall clothe the naked. The Holy One, Blessed be He, visited the sick, as it is written, ‘And he appeared in Ailonei Mamrei [while Abraham was in pain] (Genesis 18:1);’ so too you shall visit the sick. The Holy One, Blessed be He, comforted mourners, as it is written, ‘And it was, after the death of Abraham, and G-d blessed his son Isaac (Genesis 25:11);’ so too you shall comfort mourners. The Holy One, Blessed be He, buried the dead, as it is written, ‘And he buried him in the valley (Deuteronomy 34:6);’ so too, you shall bury the dead.”
Some people believe that if you truly have faith in God, you can handle poisonous snakes and if one of these poisonous snakes bites you, you will suffer no harm. But only if you truly have faith.
Just Google “Snake Salvation” and see.
If one truly believed in God, one might do stupid things like handle poisonous snakes and end up in the emergency room while an atheist scientific-minded doctor tries to save the life of someone who put his “faith” in a silly religious belief.
But I think what Dennis Prager hopes is that if one truly believed in God, one would think like he does.
But there are lots of people who truly believe in God who have views quite different from those of Dennis Prager. Some true believers are willing to set off bombs at market places in an effort to wage war on behalf of God.
Others who are true believers devote their life to comforting the sick and the poor. My sense is that Prager prefers one type of true believer over another.
Don’t confuse a death cult with worship of the Divine.
Darn it. Not caring about being a Buddhist is actually very Buddhist. Whoa dude. Trippy.
That’s true to the extent that a particular conception holds that it has grasped God in the fullness of his being. But because we can’t know God in the fullness of his being, it doesn’t follow that we can’t know anything at all about the nature of God. I think even Anselm would agree with this. Among other things, we can know that God exists, that God is eternal, etc. There is nothing fatally flawed about these limited conceptions.
There is also the possibility that God might reveal His nature to man, to permit man to know His nature in ways it would be impossible for man to know on his own power. This is how we know doctrines like the Trinity – not because we figured it out on our own, but because God Has revealed it to us.
Of course. False and silly religious beliefs are as possible as false and silly political beliefs, economic beliefs, scientific beliefs (flat-earthers), medical beliefs, etc. Simply because some people have silly religious beliefs doesn’t mean that there aren’t also wise religious beliefs that are worth embracing, or at least investigating.
One might start by considering the hospital that the atheistic-scientific doctor works in. Hospitals were an innovation and creation of Christian institutions, not atheists (or Muslims, or Buddhists, or anyone else). The atheist doctor might consider that history before he basks in his superiority over those who show up in his emergency room.
The Torah, the Five Books, is the core canonical work. It has nothing whatsoever that directly speaks to a Messiah.
Most orthodox Jews believe in a Messiah nevertheless. I believe this is the result of long contact with Christianity and other faiths.
I personally feel that the idea of a Messiah is an excuse for inaction in this world, a “superhero” carte blanche for not taking direct responsibility for fixing the world ourselves. G-d made us responsible.
Here is a link to show just how many ways “Until Shiloh comes” has been understood. Explanations include the Messiah, the fall of the pre-Davidic kings, the establishment of the Tabernacle at Shiloh in Ancient Israel, the coronation of Jerovoam, etc.
There are countless other references in the Torah that are far more obvious and important – but Messianists tend to ignore them all.
When Jordan notes that folks are sitting in a room peacefully, or that the lights work or that other physical aspects of life have had a dramatic improvement as an amazing occurrence, I am not with him. This is not to deny that, as a geezer, one is daily thankful for the blessings of health that modern life has brought, heart meds, seizure meds, and on and on, but what changed when I left Sartre and Camus and believed in God was relief. Atheism has no mercy, you get what you deserve and if you don’t like it well you have a choice to continue or not and that choice has no meaning as well. So my gratitude and extending this to all humans, is that belief in God changes the way one looks at reality and suffering. Frankl says that if man has a why he will create a how. To believe that there is a purpose to reality, is more beneficial to survival than any specific advancement. In this presentation Peterson does not make that observation, although, I think in other presentations he suggests it. The idea that a public announcement of believe is almost unbearable is also something counter to what I view as the benefit of the Jewish/Christian God. Using Abraham as an example, when he tries to fob off his wife as not his wife, God saves him from his foolish and selfish choice. This God limits the negative consequences of our mistaken choices, God covers our shame, it is not all up to us to make the ourselves better. We are not to lean to our own understanding because we have limited capacity, to recognize our limited nature is a blessing.
I don’t have time to watch the video right now, but I will try later. Short answer to your question, what do you mean “if” I truly believe in God. I do believe in God. It’s the one thing I’m most certain about. What I’m like is what I am.
Mazal tov!
Thanks, Jim, for that beautiful testimony of your journey towards G-d. I was a Camus fanatic at one time. And then I came to Israel and no longer felt like “The Stranger.” I feel so fortunate to have a home. In “The Myth of Sisyphus,” if memory serves me correctly, Camus says something like “every thoughtful person at one time or another has contemplated suicide.” What?? Maybe thoughtful people in France. Not thoughtful people in Israel. Here, everyone is focused on the future, we just know things are getting better all the time. There’s a new building or a building being renovated on every other corner and every other young woman is pregnant. Here’s the most telling statistic: With an average of three children per woman, Israel has the highest fertility rate in the OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, whose members are the 36 most prosperous nations in the world) by a considerable margin and much higher than the OECD average of 1.7. Where you have faith, you procreate.
IOW: I believe in the future. So I invest in it.
Credo.
I believe.
Apparently all the world’s Catholics sin when they recite the Nicene Creed at mass.
Wow.
Sure.
I am like any other Catholic faithful who puts his faith and love of God first in his life. I strive to be a saint, but fall, often. I take my obligation to worship God, by serving at mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, as the top priority in my life. I go to Confession when I sin. I follow the precepts of the Church. I share my faith here at Ricochet and with others who are interested.
My life changed forever when I came into full communion with the Catholic Church. It was the best decision I ever made in my life.
And one more just for fun.
As I said, “requires a certain type of willful ignorance”
So I am willfully ignorant?
I agree that some religions are better than others.
For example, I have a higher opinion of a Church that teaches that it is morally acceptable for a woman who is being physically beaten by her husband to seek a divorce than a Church that teaches that a woman in such a position may only “separate” from her husband.
I also have a higher opinion of a Church that teaches that the Bible might only be partially true, not necessarily entirely true and it’s acceptable to disagree with the actions that God is depicted as doing or commanding.
In other words, it’s perfectly fine if one thinks that God was wrong to drown the entire world except for Noah’s family and it’s also fine if one thinks that God should not have commanded the Israelites to commit mass killings of other peoples, including infants and children.
It’s also perfectly fine if one thinks that much, or perhaps all, of the Bible is purely man made and more based on myth than fact.
I have a lower opinion of Churches that teach that Jews that they are not from God (John 8:47) or teaches that Jews are “from your father the devil” (John 8:44).
There’s no willful ignorance in not being convinced that a single God or multiple gods exist.
I am very confident that Aaron Rodgers, the quarterback, exists. I am much less convinced that God exists.
This isn’t based on willful ignorance. It’s based on the fact that I hear Aaron Rodgers speak but I can’t hear God speak. I can see Aaron Rodgers. I can’t see God.
Sure, maybe God exists but he is hidden. But the tooth fairy is hidden too. So is the Easter Bunny. So is Santa Claus, except at the mall where he is everywhere it seems.
Also, notice that most people have a pretty clear idea as to who Aaron Rodgers. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists all have very similar opinions about Aaron Rodgers.
There is no consensus on God, even within Christianity. Sometimes even within a single denomination there is disagreement over what God is like what his opinions are.
So, it’s not willful ignorance to think that God might be part of our imaginations and not part of reality.
As someone once said, people arguing about the existence of G-d are like fish arguing about the existence of water.
Morning Yehoshua,
Concernig child birth rates, you make an interesting point; look at the rate in Spain and Japan where the rate is 1.1. So young men and women do not think that there is a reason to have children, or perhaps they have more reasons for not having children. Curious when life expectancy is at its historical highest, that there is so much pessimism or so much selfishness, one could note that the result of sin is to drive one to focus on the self. For the flip side also look at the Amish whose population doubles every 20 years, and family size is on average greater than 8. It is a sign of our failing culture that families are not a replacement size.
Christ in those quotes is speaking to specific people in front of Him, not speaking of Jews in general. How about not taking phrases out of context?
Jesus might not have said many of the words attributed to him in the Gospel of John.
I do not think Jesus hated the Jews. Jesus was a Jew who believed that people should repent because the kingdom of God was near.
[Read Martin Luther’s comments about the Jews.]
In my opinion, there is a difference between the Historical Jesus and the Jesus depicted in the Gospels, though there is overlap.
That’s not to say that the Historical Jesus is someone I would follow.
Martin Luther is not divinely inspired, not even to Lutherans.
You quote incompletely and out of context. You have read little and understand less. You aren’t seeking anything. All you seek to do is to tear down.
Nonsense.
Poppycock.
You really should read him, Heavy. He’s a much better writer than that hack Richard Dawkins.
If you support theocracy and the punishment of heretics by the government, St. Augustine is your man.
St Augustine taught that error has no rights.
He cited biblical texts, notably Luke 14:16-23, to justify the use of compulsion.
Augustine thought that using “great violence” was justified.
But Augustine made a distinction between unbelievers who persecuted because of cruelty and Christians who persecuted because of love.
Augustine believed that a war to preserve or restore the unity of the Church was a just war, a bellum Deo auctore, a war waged by God himself. St. Augustine supported what we would not call “Jihad” or “Holy War.”
Augustine found a way to avoid churchmen getting blood on their own hands.
Dissension against the Church amounted to dissension against the state, so anyone condemned by the Church should be punished by the state.