Capitalism vs. Socialism: Facts vs. Opinion

 

Opinion: Capitalism is a corrupt system, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Fact: Capitalism has created more wealth for more people, than ever in the history of the world.
Fact: The poor in America are still richer than about 70% of the rest of the world.
My opinion: Capitalism in itself is not a corrupt system; people are easily corrupted and the system need not be replaced.

Opinion: Democratic Socialism is a better economic system for the US than capitalism.
Fact: Socialism is defined as “[a system] in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the [government],” and “[a system] in which there is no private property.”
Fact: This is what happened in the USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela, and it resulted in extreme poverty for all, except those in power.
Fact: The Nazis were the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

Opinion: Many “Democratic Socialism” supporters really want the Nordic Model, not true socialism.
Fact: The Nordic countries do not practice socialism.
Fact: The Nordic countries practice capitalism with generous social programs.
Fact: I repeat, the Nordic countries do not practice socialism.
Fact: The Nordic countries had wealth (thanks to the free market) before implementing high taxes to pay for their social programs, such as healthcare and education.
Fact: It was not the government benefits that created wealth, but wealth that allowed the luxury of such generous government programs.
Fact: Income taxes in Nordic countries are as high as 61%. In the US, it’s 37% for top earners.
Fact: The Nordic countries all have a lower corporate tax rate than the US, which means they have a more free market economy than the US.
Fact: The Nordic countries are different than America.
Fact: The combined population of all the Nordic countries is less than the population of Texas, and size matters.
Fact: Almost every single Nordic country ranks far below the United States in terms of single-parent households. And families matter.
Fact: Nordic countries do not have the military capabilities to defend themselves without foreign assistance.

Fact: They rely heavily on the help of other nations, particularly the US.
Fact: Bears eat beets.
Fact: Most Nordic countries have no minimum wage law.
Fact: Nordic countries offer school choice, something typically supported by Republicans and opposed by Democrats.
Fact: Russia. Beats. Every. Nordic. Country.

Opinion: Welfare systems decrease incentives for citizens to work.
Fact: Since 1964, America has spent $22 trillion on anti-poverty programs, yet the percentage of citizens living at or below the poverty line has remained virtually the same; around 12%.
Fact: In the US, a person who receives a full package of welfare benefits can receive more than they would earn from a minimum wage job.
Fact: Sweden (viewed as a model welfare state by Democratic Socialists) had 16% unemployment among its young citizens, ages 15-24 in 2018. (The U.S. only had 8%.)
Fact: Sweden has also seen an increase in “early retirement” among young citizens, meaning they are opting to live off taxpayers rather than contribute as taxpayers themselves.

Opinion: Capitalism promotes greed.
Fact: Americans donated over $410 billion to charities in 2017 alone.
Fact: Americans donate more money to charities than any other country, almost twice as much as the next highest nation.
Fact: Capitalism only thrives when businesses offer a service or good that benefits their fellow man.

Opinion: Politicians touting socialism don’t use facts; they use opinions, emotion, promises of free stuff, and prey on people’s suffering.
Fact: I don’t need the government to take care of me.
My opinion: I sincerely believe you don’t either.

If your concern is for the poor, below are five excellent organizations that will gladly accept your money, time or talents in helping the needy. I’m sure they could use 60% of your income as well.

Please share with the Millennial nearest you.

There are 35 comments.

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  1. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Welcome. You got that right.

    • #1
  2. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Facts vs Opinion. Funny you should bring that up. I just posted a comment on an earlier post titled ‘Rudy’s Insurance’ where I raised the same issue. We get a lot of opinion masquerading as facts or opinion without any supporting facts here. Thanks again.

    • #2
  3. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Good run down.  Nordic Americans I understand have a far higher average income than the nordic countries.  They are hard workers but even they are softening up with welfare so are moving some things back a little.  They don’t make their citizens who live abroad pay taxes, so trading companies do really well because you get to live abroad.     I hope they continue to move the nonsense back and deal with the Muslim influx.   The world will  need some good models if we don’t start reducing Washington’s power.

    • #3
  4. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    Ajalon J. Stapley: opinion—Capitalism promotes greed.

    Fact – Greed is good.

    • #4
  5. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    Opinion: Progressives do not listen to Facts.  They do not care about the facts.  They FEEL, and their feelings govern most aspects of their lives.

    Opinion: If we wish to change the behavior of libs and progressives, we must find a way of appealing to their feelings.  Like, instead of drawing their attention to higher taxes promised by Democrats, we tell them that Republicans want them to keep more of what they earn.

    • #5
  6. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Opinion: Progressives do not listen to Facts. They do not care about the facts. They FEEL, and their feelings govern most aspects of their lives.

     

    That might be a fact.

    • #6
  7. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Ajalon J. Stapley: fact—Income taxes in Nordic countries are as high as 61%. In the U.S. it’s 37% for top earners.

    fact – High income tax rates in Nordic countries apply to most income earners, not just top earners. 

    • #7
  8. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    opinion – income inequality is bad.

    fact – income inequality (in actual material living standards if not in reported cash income) becomes more pronounced in places with more socialist (government control of production and distribution) government.

    opinion – that is true even in “capitalist” United States – cities with high levels of government control and mandates tend to have greater disparities of actual lived material standards that do places with less government control and mandates.

    • #8
  9. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    opinion – income inequality is bad.

    fact – income inequality (in actual material living standards if not in reported cash income) becomes more pronounced in places with more socialist (government control of production and distribution) government.

    opinion – that is true even in “capitalist” United States – cities with high levels of government control and mandates tend to have greater disparities of actual lived material standards that do places with less government control and mandates.

    fact – income inequality is a necessity.

    • #9
  10. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Ajalon J. Stapley: opinion—Capitalism promotes greed.

    fact – Free markets (the basis for capitalism) depend upon sellers identifying what others (prospective buyers) need and/or want. 

    opinion – Capitalism promotes understanding and engaging with your fellow human. 

    • #10
  11. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    Opinion: Earnings inequality is a good thing.  It is an incentive for lower-earners to better themselves so they will be higher-earners, thus reducing inequality.

    Fact: I never use the phrase “income inequality”, but “earning inequality”, which puts the onus on the earner.  Most people have it in their power to increase their earnings, if they will take the initiative.  However, these days those low-earners rarely take responsibility for their situation, and prefer to blame others.  This is a result of liberals insisting on low-earners being victims of “society” or “the rich”.

    • #11
  12. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    Thank you @tigerlily!

    tigerlily (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Welcome. You got that right.

    Yes, Welcome Aboard Ajalon!


    Bob Thompson (View Comment)
    :

    Welcome. You got that right.

    Thank you Mr. Thompson.

    • #12
  13. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Opinion: Progressives do not listen to Facts. They do not care about the facts. They FEEL, and their feelings govern most aspects of their lives.

    Opinion: If we wish to change the behavior of libs and progressives, we must find a way of appealing to their feelings. Like, instead of drawing their attention to higher taxes promised by Democrats, we tell them that Republicans want them to keep more of what they earn.

    You make a good point @rushbabe49 and I agree. We need to find a way to appeal to the emotion of those that are not moved by evidence. Any ideas on how to do that?

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: fact—Income taxes in Nordic countries are as high as 61%. In the U.S. it’s 37% for top earners.

    fact – High income tax rates in Nordic countries apply to most income earners, not just top earners.

    @fullsizetabby I was referring specifically to the US. I understand the Nordic countries’ high taxes apply to all.

    • #13
  14. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: opinion—Capitalism promotes greed.

    fact – Free markets (the basis for capitalism) depend upon sellers identifying what others (prospective buyers) need and/or want.

    opinion – Capitalism promotes understanding and engaging with your fellow human.

    Agreed.

    • #14
  15. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    opinion – income inequality is bad.

    fact – income inequality (in actual material living standards if not in reported cash income) becomes more pronounced in places with more socialist (government control of production and distribution) government.

    opinion – that is true even in “capitalist” United States – cities with high levels of government control and mandates tend to have greater disparities of actual lived material standards that do places with less government control and mandates.

    Agreed, socialist sympathizers need to hear this kind of information. 

    • #15
  16. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    Opinion: Earnings inequality is a good thing. It is an incentive for lower-earners to better themselves so they will be higher-earners, thus reducing inequality.

    Fact: I never use the phrase “income inequality”, but “earning inequality”, which puts the onus on the earner. Most people have it in their power to increase their earnings, if they will take the initiative. However, these days those low-earners rarely take responsibility for their situation, and prefer to blame others. This is a result of liberals insisting on low-earners being victims of “society” or “the rich”.

    I like that! “Earning inequality,” I might borrow that phrase.

    • #16
  17. tigerlily Member
    tigerlily
    @tigerlily

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Welcome. You got that right.

    Yes, Welcome Aboard Ajalon!

    • #17
  18. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    tigerlily (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Welcome. You got that right.

    Yes, Welcome Aboard Ajalon!

    Maybe we should take up a collection to send this natural (and/or very astute) new member over to Ogden, UT to show a less graceful newcomer the proper way to effectively and respectfully enter a new community.

    Off to a very good start over here.

    • #18
  19. PHCheese Inactive
    PHCheese
    @PHCheese

    A socialist  economic system evolves to a  dictator political system.

    • #19
  20. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    philo (View Comment):
    fact – income inequality is a necessity.

    Yes.  The only way to make everybody equal is to make everyone equally poor.  The countries that have a high level of income inequality tend to have richer poor people than countries where the rich are poorer.

    • #20
  21. Lilly B Coolidge
    Lilly B
    @LillyB

    philo (View Comment):

    tigerlily (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Welcome. You got that right.

    Yes, Welcome Aboard Ajalon!

    Maybe we should take up a collection to send this natural (and/or very astute) new member over to Ogden, UT to show a less graceful newcomer the proper way to effectively and respectfully enter a new community.

    Off to a very good start over here.

    Let’s not gang up and send anyone to the dark side! I am thankful for the respectful dialogue here on Ricochet, and I think maybe some people aren’t used to it. 

    • #21
  22. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    philo (View Comment):

    tigerlily (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Welcome. You got that right.

    Yes, Welcome Aboard Ajalon!

    Maybe we should take up a collection to send this natural (and/or very astute) new member over to Ogden, UT to show a less graceful newcomer the proper way to effectively and respectfully enter a new community.

    Off to a very good start over here.

    Why thank you everyone, it’s nice to be welcomed!

    • #22
  23. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Ajalon J. Stapley: yet the percentage of citizens living at or below the poverty line has remained virtually the same; around 12%.

    This is because the way poverty is calculated is just a roundabout way of calculating 12%, in fact it is the way common core would make you use to get close to 12%.

     

    • #23
  24. MACHO GRANDE' (aka - Chris Cam… Coolidge
    MACHO GRANDE' (aka - Chris Cam…
    @ChrisCampion

    If we’re not teaching facts in school anymore, but rather, impressions of things, the uphill battle to get people to even consider what they think they know might be wrong is only going to get steeper.

    That is, of course, if we haven’t already reached our Vertical Limit.

    See the source image

    • #24
  25. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Ajalon J. Stapley: Fact: Bears eat beets.

    Nobody’s calling this out?

     

    • #25
  26. Kay of MT Member
    Kay of MT
    @KayofMT

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: Fact: Bears eat beets.

    Nobody’s calling this out?

     

    Well, I don’t know if bears will eat beets or not, so can’t argue. Bears eat some strange things as far as I’m concerned, after once cleaning up my yard after it finished with the trash can.

    • #26
  27. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: Fact: Bears eat beets.

    Nobody’s calling this out?

     

    It’s a line from the TV show, “The Office.”

    • #27
  28. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    philo (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: opinion—Capitalism promotes greed.

    Fact – Greed is good.


    Miffed White Male (View Comment)
    :

    @miffedwhitemale I think it’s an irrefutable fact, no sense in arguing.

    Another fact: those who can’t farm, farm celery.

    • #28
  29. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: yet the percentage of citizens living at or below the poverty line has remained virtually the same; around 12%.

    This is because the way poverty is calculated is just a roundabout way of calculating 12%, in fact it is the way common core would make you use to get close to 12%.

    @instugator can you explain more?

     

    • #29
  30. Ajalon J. Stapley Inactive
    Ajalon J. Stapley
    @goanddo

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Ajalon J. Stapley: yet the percentage of citizens living at or below the poverty line has remained virtually the same; around 12%.

    This is because the way poverty is calculated is just a roundabout way of calculating 12%, in fact it is the way common core would make you use to get close to 12%.

     

    @instugator Can you explain more?

    • #30

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